Lots of talk in the past month about the viruses unleashed to the open. Read more to vote!
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I don't run any sort of antivirus program on my Windows XP machine... there isn't any need provided the system is behind a firewall and its user isn't a moron.
when i'm using redhat or freebsd, no.
when i'm using XP...still no. cause i don't use OE,IE and I have netbios over tcp-ip, server and workstation service all disabled (plus a million other things disabled). all patches installed.
i don't normally check email or surf the web from XP anyway. it's just for a few apps.
Does running chkrootkit every now and then count as virus scanner?
The subject line says everything!
@Linux: I use linux myself, but i think there would be even more viruses with linux if it would have MS's marketshare!
> I don't run any sort of antivirus program on my Windows XP machine... there isn't any need provided the system is behind a firewall and its user isn't a moron.
Same here.
Got a FreeBSD Firewall, and I don't run weird stuff.
Another thing is that Anti-Viruses can slow down the performance of the OS up to 25%, and that is just not acceptable on my old dual Celeron 533 Mhz machine.
I don't and I run windows. Really if you patch when MS post one and you don't do stupid things it's not an issue. I haven't gotten one 1999 and that one was my fault, and none since. If I was one who opened every email i get or ran AOL or downloaded tons of stuff it would be a differant story. My bigger fears are things that don't come from emails or downloads. But those typicaly can be avoided with patching. Also one of the reason I hate when egotistical people feel the need to post to the world a flaw and how to beat it when all the need to do is tell MS. But somepeople want 15 minutes of fame.
correction that should be i got one in 1999, non since then
No viruses/worms yet for BeOS.
And as second OS i use 98Lite - without IE/OE and with disabled scripting host
Even though it does exists for beos, there's no need for it.
But even on my windowsbox I seen no reason to use one. I have never ever had a virus in windows(at least that I know of). As long as you are careful, there's really no worries about it.
Though, adware removers are useful in windows 
old dual Celeron 533 Mhz machine
Ha! I'm running a P120, Redhat 7.2! I'm sure there are people running older ones on this list. If there were mods here I'd say mod me up as a troll
Come on, [Windows] people! If Linux, MacOS, BeOS, BSD, OS/2, Unix(es) and others OSes users don´t need such software and proudly say so, that makes them trolls?!?!?
Viruses are mainly a Windows problem... Deal with it! Yeah, sure you guys can find your way out of this trouble but don´t tell me that IE and Outlook flaws, which most of them are due to stupid default choices in its setup, are acceptable.
DeadFish Man
I DMZed my WinXP machine, no firewall at all. I keep it updated but that's it and I've never had a virus or worm (I use Freescan to check). I even use Outlook Express. You can't blame consumers for being ignorant about how to avoid virus', it's just too much research for most, but they sure don't mind paying for their ignorance with annual Norton contracts and computer repairs. Maybe the new anti-piracy measures by the AV vendors will force people to take responsiblity for thier network connected computers.
I use linux at home, but I work at a computer shop which sells windows boxes. I have nothing against windows at all, but Virus Software is pretty much recquired. Unless you really know what your doing, as some people here do, you will almost always get some sort of virus. The main thing is that people don't catch them, and if you install AV software after you're infected many times it doesnt catch the virus. The only way to be sure that you aren't infected is to physically take your harddrive out of your computer, put it in a drive bay and scan it with the latest virus definitions for your respective software. Almost everyone that comes in the shop is infected with something, although usually it's just adware. In anycase, just because your computer hasnt crashed and your virus software hasn't picked anything up doesn't mean you aren't infected, you may have been infected but just don't know it. The best way to keep windows healthy (for joe user, not someone who is a windows expert or anything) is to reload once a year or so. Anyway, just my opinion.
Jep, on my Windows 2000 box (main pc) I run Norton AV 2003.
Although I have a good firewall.
Just in case...
when a dipshit sales guy takes his laptop on the road for 3 weeks knowing that it needed to be patched and then comes back to the office and infects the LAN bypassing the Firewall.
I run Gentoo 1.4 and Windows 2000. Of course, I don't run any anti-virus on Gentoo, and I do not run anti-virus on Windows because I do not use any email programs, or run IE. All of my email is web-based. I primarily use Yahoo, so I do not download anything I do not recognize and it has built-in online virus scanning for stuff I do want to download. Plus, my router has a built-in firewall. I also use a real browser - Mozilla Firebird - so there are no worries about ActiveX controls.
The poll is unfair. The "Yes" option is selected by default.
All Linux all the time -- I just stood by and watched as my co-workers home computers were dropping like flies thanks to sobig and blaster 
I have said it 100000 times, the poll engine is outsourced and we can not change its default settings. The people who programmed the poll at www.go2poll.com they have the first option always selected.
Plus, I don't see the skewing, people are not stupid. Plus, the "Yes" option is behind anyway. So, get over it.
Beos was nice in that i never gave much thought to virus, i did find it amusing there was a anti-virus program and no virus's on beos. Sadly Beos Never hit the point where anough people had it to attrack them. OSX is' probably on the path of attracking them as it grows. People will see it as a pretty target.
As for linux, I think i'm with many who would really like to see there be more virus's for it. If I does get above 1% usage maybe it will get a few. It would also be a good thing for linux in that it would cause improvements and change the large mentality that it is safe from them. I know many people are smart enought to not think they are safe just because they run linux but many do. Then again I do belive most virus writters, once you get rid of teenangers messing around with some info on how to they read, and actully get to people who write them from ground up and know what they are doing are actully linux users who are just out to make windows look bad.
I run an IDS but no anti virus software. Redhat 9.
Strid...
"I don't need a virus scanner, I have a firewall!", wow...
That's like saying "I don't need a computer, i have paper!"
I use software that is, by design, quite difficult to write virus and worms for. doesn't mean it's impossible, it means that it's not likely in the least.
I don't download msft executables, for one.
And you people really need to take proactive measures against the worms they have out now, primarily, blocking sites that
use windows based network servers, why?
I mean, you'd cripple the internet, but isn't that what is happening right now? All these DoS attacks wreaking havok.
Dude, the stuff is like bad funk. Get it off you. Don't mess with msft based designed stuff.
I know that linux, bsd, and other alternative servers and routers are getting hammered by this "crap", blame it on msft's design. The kid who was writing that worm was doing it in windows. :-
I run AV software on my windows machine. With free software like AVG, there is no reason not to (or a volume license of NAV from work, for that matter).
I am not a fool. I don't accept attachments on my home email account. Those are plaffed on the server. Nor do I open email from people I don't know.
Nonetheless, I, like ALL of you, am vulnerable to the occasional brain fart and pull a stupid.
I pulled a stupid a year and a half ago and lost a couple weeks worth of work (so I only back up once a month... I hate swapping tapes). I learned then that as brilliant as I think I am, I am not perfect and it cost me a fair chunk of work.
I didn't used to... in 7 years as a sysadmin, I never got a virus cause I didn't open stupid attachments from people I don't know. But I recently started to... mainly after reading this: http://www.nccomp.com/sysadmin/whatif-1.html
I routinely scan everything I grab as part of the unZIP process, mainly because I use DOS and Windows 3.x software in addition to OS/2 and Linux stuff.
While I've never encountered anything in software I've downloaded, I figure it's better to be safe than sorry, and the scanner I use (the DOS version of F-Prot) is free for noncommercial use...
I run OS X at home, and though it comes with a free virus protection program, it serves no purpose. No viruses hit the mac. But My Win 2000 machine at work, though I too am not an idiot and I don't open strange email... the last worm got in our system big time when I wasn't even reading any email. It just popped up behind our firewall and everything. You fools think you are so smart. I got news for ya, the hackers are smarter. Run Mac and avoid the whole stupid mess. And for you Linux users, OS X is the better Linux.
I have some XP machines, and while I could claim I never run anything stuipd, my wife is always bringing stuff home from work, and a few virii/trojans have been detected and snuffed. Sometimes virii comes from places you didn't think about, and then you go, "Oh... damn! I should have seen that coming!" Like:
Virus/Worm/Trojan/whatever is on the Office LAN. Its goal is to wipe out MP3s and j-peg files. It affects all shared directories, and attaches itself to MS Office docs. You open one, it attached itself to files on Zip Disk you left in drive. Since your work computer doesn't have MP3s or j-pegs, you don't notice anything. You take out Zip Disk, and forget about it. A year later, you wonder what's on it, open one of the infected documents at home. It goes to a mapped drive where you share all your j-pegs and MP3s in a shared directory. Sure, your shared directory is a Free BSD box running Samba, but the infection runs from your Windows box, and sadly, you left your shares read/writeable, so it wipes out your whole collection from your Windows box. FreeBSD just thinks you wanted to do that, or else you would have set the share "read only = yes". Wah wah wah...
Yes, that particular scenario is avoidable at many stages, but I know I have made boneheaded mistakes like that in my past, so a little extra protection doesn't hurt.
One infected floppy brough a whole network down in a friend of mine's office, once.
Read this... and if you don't use AV software, you may see the light and start doing so:
<a href="Scary" rel="nofollow">http://www.nccomp.com/sysadmin/whatif-1.html">Scary Article
These worms affect you too, mr OSX person.
DoS attacks
"I have said it 100000 times, the poll engine is outsourced and we can not change its default settings. The people who programmed the poll at www.go2poll.com they have the first option always selected."
Maybe someone could code a new poll script? Polls are dead simple!
Now that I got your attention..........Linux security is mostly through it's obscurity. If it was as popular as Windows everyone would be bitching about Linux viruses.
Sure Windows has holes up the ying yang, but until recently it's goal was functionality not security.
You Linux guys can be all smug while you muck around in vi, and grep this and that and piss around with your amateur GUI's.
I'll stick with Windows, viruses and all. And unless you're a complete idiot, viruses shouldn't be a problem anyways. It's called anti-virus software and Best Practices.
Peace out!
"Maybe someone could code a new poll script? Polls are dead simple!"
So you just volenteered to create the new OSnews super poll. It will be unhackable, so no one cheats. Well be designed in a way that everyone likes. Well have all the right options. And never suffer from any problems and no one will ever complain about any aspect of it.
Well thanks for volenteering to make one. Sinces it's so simple I guess we can expect it within a week for the next poll.
We are all affected by the DoS attacks launched from windows' worms. It's just, the altOS's are almost totally immune to infection by them.
It's like watching our live webbloging/hit counter reveal CodeRed's scanning/attack functions. Funny, but disheartening.
It affects everyone on the network, even though, the only one's ever infected are usually windows users. I don't care WHAT OS you have. It affects your network, in the least.
"Then again I do belive most virus writters, once you get rid of teenangers messing around with some info on how to they read, and actully get to people who write them from ground up and know what they are doing are actully linux users who are just out to make windows look bad."
I think they're written by aliens who are just out to make earth look bad.
I even run antivirus software on BeOS. Sure there's no virii for BeOS, but I'd be the one hit with the first one written. I've had viruses infect Windows, Macintosh, and even FreeBSD machines.
Running Norton 2003 updated nightly at home, and Norton Corporate here on the server
Windows boxes
The red hat box I pretty much leave alone, its behind a hardware firewall thats all I need
i am reading here and elsewhere that a firewall, software or hardware, will protect a windows user.
this is plainly not true. for example when a windows user reaches out from behind the firewall to get his/her email using outlook - bang! he's pulled down a virus.
and i can bet very nasty web page gets can do the same.
a firewall will not protect you here. a very simplistic view of a firewall is to think of it as preventing outsiders coming in unannounced. this is not what you are doing if you initiate an email get or a web page get.
back onm tpopic - why would i use windows and then add on extra virus-checker gumf which takes up space, cpu cyles and does intrusive things to my registry etc etc and feed another parasitic business model.
now way. i switched from windows years ago for the very simple reason that i actually wanted to spend my time working - NOT messing about with gumf.
Antiviruses are useless and only consume memory and resources.
I run Linux anyway.
Well I have windows XP. I don't open attachments or anything, but it just so happened that last year I caught a virus. I was doing a system scan using f-prot for DOS, but running it on XP and it found a virus. It didn't seem to be doing any harm, but still. So I bought myself a copy of f-prot AV for windows. Its not too much of a problem...it just sits there and does its thing. If I'm feeling lag from it, I just disable it.
There's really no reason not to have a virus scanner anyways.
Yamin
Practically all major operating systems have viruses written for them, Windows, Mac, *nix, etc..
Do a search here for known viruses for your operating system:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/vinfodb.html
W32 for Windows
MAC for Macintosh
LINUX for Linux
UNIX for Unix/Linux
With free antivirus and firewalls and as powerful as computers are getting I don't see any reason NOT to use them. Doesn't matter how tech savvy you are, nobody's perfect, and for the non-tech savvy it would be practically a necessity not only to protect themselves but others as well.
And that's my 2-cents.
that's why I laughed, shook my head, and deleted the message with the attached virus and when on my way on mdk 9.1
I read the article about a mass DDoS on anti-virii vendors...that would be cool!
I hate anti-virus companies. On my last IT job I had to hunt for virii other ppl were lame enough to propigate. I've never had a virus. I've never propigated a virus. I've never chosen to use anti-virii software.
My philosophy is simple: "never execute code you dont trust."
This is why I primarily use linux now - I can dive into the source if I want (or contract someone if I'm not capable myself, so not being a coder is no exscuse) and find out exactly what Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, or any other linux does. And when I get new OS, I _always_ check md5sums!
How do you know what any proprietary OS does? (Not just MS, IBM, Sun, HP - all of them...) You dont.
Why do I hate anti-virus companies? I'm not sure really...I know I've never like norton, which is the biggest CPU waster pitched at the places I've worked.
I guess because their philosophy sounds kind of like this to me:
"Youse wouldnt want anything bad to happen to youse systems heh heh...if youse pays us we'll make sure nutting goes wrong."
Who is to say members of the anti-virus extortion cartel dont have some "secret way" of releasing new virus methods. They dont have to release any virii code...just the know how or even suggestions to get all the "me too" script kiddie style people that want 15 secs of fame to generate the code. And thus the industries financial success is mandated.
A sure fire money maker - sounds suspicious to me.
My eComStation and Red Hat os don't have any installed on them.
Honestly as I am using Linux I don't run an anti-virus program (doesn't mean I am not risk-free, I know). I mostly browse the mainstream websites and don't use software with "unidentifiable sources" (you know what I mean).
However, I knew my friend, an system admin of a small firm, which runs 3 PCs with Windows but without any anti-virus program. Basically he set the security level of IE/Outlook Express to highest, don't open any email with attachment, and don't browse any "non-mainstream" websites (those PCs are mainly for email communication and Word document processing; so web browsing is probably not needed most of the time).
I am not sure he runs a software Firewall, good for him that those systems he maintained are not NT-based so the RPC vulnerabilities don't catch him by surprise. The systems are not very secure in strict standard but I suppose he gets by.
I dont run antivirus, because when you use linux, the virus writers dont waste their time writing virii for an OS with such a small user base.
is the shit coming out of your mouth yet??
i have never heard so much bullshit before.
I have a Win XP Tablet PC and a linux desktop. Both are behind a FreeBSD firewall, and I use mozilla mail and news. I do not use a virus checker, and never had any problems with it. I do however use an adware checker (adaware).
Gentoo runs quite well without antivirus software, in spite of the 89 copies of klez found in my inbox at one point in time.
>is the shit coming out of your mouth yet??
>i have never heard so much bullshit before.
Dear "Anonymous";
The cowardly lion eh? All my statements are true facts or accurately reflect my opinions.
Seriously, where do you trolls come from? If you have nothing constructive to say why make a post like this?
Eh, forgot a few facts - my network is protected by a firewall to block outside threats - zero access...soon I intend to reconfigure it to block unauthorized activities from the inside as well. I figure until its all open source, better to be safe than sorry.
In 21 years of computing I've never brought a virus onto my own systems, even once.
I think this just proves that techies are as much a part of this problem as the 'average' or 'ignorant' computer users we like to blaim. The idea being that they know too little to protect themselves against worms and virii, and that we know too much.
I never had a virus either until last year (in almost 20yrs of this), when I was forced to use OE for a month or two. I never opened anything I did not recognize, and didn't even notice any suspicious attachemnts. I was running 2K Pro, IE6 SP1, behind a firewall, and snagged a couple of instances of BugBear. I did not lose a thing, but AVG found its way back on to my machine.
I can understand the Linux guys, but if you use Windows; I think it is almost a 'tech community' duty to run something, and keep these things from spreading. AVG is free and has very little performance hit, nothing I have seen either on my AMD 850Mhz which I have used for years, or on my new 2.4.
Eventually, 'time and circumstance will cohere,' or someone will come up with something exceptionally clever, or you leave you computer on when you are out of town and something is released, &c... Anyway, no one is too smart to get had once in a while,
Best,
Thomas Lackey
http://www.grisoft.com (AVG, Windows guys)
http://www.clamav.org (ClamAntivirus, UN*X guys)
I don't even have a virus scanner on my windows box. I am thankfully smart enough not to get viruses. My ISP filters the mail in my mailbox for viruses and is kind enough to delete them. Other from that I use common sense -- god I love having a brain -- and a hardware firewall. And I'm clever enough to patch holes as patches become available.
Sadly most people don't have common sense .. which explains the 450(!!!!) viruses that ended up in my mailbox today (I love my ISP 
).
I dont use AV on any of windows machines I have. Never had problems with viruses. OS is read only for users and VB is disabled. However the real reason for not using AV programs lies in the fact that all new definitions for the anti virus programs come after the virus is released. I think that it is reasonable if one is not using AV at home when everything is under control, it would be stupid on the other hand not to deploy at work because of human factor.
I agree with tech_user that firewall will not protect against viruses.
Lol, virus.. now there's a rare concept on my OS
Your OS is also a rare concept. "Lol"
>>Lol, virus.. now there's a rare concept on my OS
>Your OS is also a rare concept.
Hahaha! GREAT reply!
The word does not exist. And by using it, you make yourself look like a fool who wants to impress other fools.
Always under MS. Always use a firewall. Always use antispyware. Not even too sure if beshare isn't spyware. Home restricted data is on a non-lan computer too.
I am surprised at the number of supposedly smart Windows users who are not running A/V programs. "I am smart, so I don't get infected." How nice. So how do you protect yourself from e.g. a worm that infects you via a JavaScript exploit in IE? (IE has lots of unpatched holes). And to make things even better - it is a dual-expåloit worm and if it infects a server and finds a default script, which is sent to all browsers, it will add the exploit code to that script. Mmmmm nice,- CNN got infected and now that you read about it, you are too. :-)
the amiga and atari ST were full of really nasty virus 1000 time more nasty than the sissy thing window user call virus.
So yes, i still use a virus checker for my amiga when i get a new app (but i never run it 24h).
My Main OS is BeOS and on that i have the latest mcafee and symantec antivirus
i Don't use it on my win98 because i boot in it 3 time a year and i could not care less to loose data in it.
>If some moron uses the word virii again, I am going to die
>The word does not exist. And by using it, you make yourself look like a fool who wants to impress other fools.
You have just made my day happier, seriously - thanks. :-)
I've got a lot of other cool words that "dont exist" ha ha.
My current favoite is "farcled"...
So what's the plural of virus?
..is the proper plural.
Virii makes no sense.
First off: The Latin word "virus" means "mucus" or "slime".
The plural of that word would be "viri", and not "virii".
Been online since I installed (in a slot on the side ) a $25 dollar modem on my C64. I have never any anti virus software on any of my machines and have never been infected. Currently running BeOS ( main OS ),Win98, WinXP,RH8.0 on 1 machine.
Don
I know people personally that swore they wouldn't get a virus because they had a firewall and they weren't idiots (they weren't..) That changed when the majority of them got letters from their ISP's threatening to disable their internet access. I hope that you all don't have to learn the hard way. The only excuse to not have a virus scanner installed on your computer is that you are not using a virus prone OS.
That's the bottom line.
I have two iMacs running OS X, a workstation running Debian Linux, and two servers, one running FreeBSD and the other running Debian. None of them use any kind of anti-virus.
I do have two Windows 2000 computers, one for my work (ugh!) and the other for my wife to use for her college classes (has to have Excel 2002 and QuickBooks Pro 2001. Both of these systems use an anti-virus product.
Damn shame, isn't it?
Shouldn't this story feature the MS WIndows icon?
Actually the closest to virii is viri
Viri is the plural of the latin word vir
vir means men
So it looks like bunch of people here is infected by the men
or it is a kind of.. Misanthropy?
On my home, family machine, which primarily runs Win2K, I run Avast! antivirus and have Kerio Personal Firewall set up.
On my personal machine in my rented room, I run FreeBSD primarily and don't have antivirus software installed. I sometimes boot into Win98 to play the odd game, but I don't use an antivirus there since the chance of contamination is so low given my activities (no internet browsing, no e-mail, no "floppies from a friend", no warez).
I have three OS's running on my machine that you could call my "Main Os's". BeOS, MDK 9.2 bII, and Windows Server 2003.
In BeOS, I of course don't use a virusscanner. I don't even know if one exists .
In MDK, I don't use one either.
In Windows, I also don't use a virusscanner. In my opinion, there's absolutely no need for that, at least not when you know what you are doing. I also don't have a firewall (well I have one, but it's turned off). I wouldn't recommend this setup to the average user though.
I do check my HD occasionally (in Windows, that is) with AntiVir, it never found a thing. The only virus ever to enter this household was the Junkieboot virus (remember that one? It destroyed your command.com) in the early nineties (if I'm not mistaken). Still gotta watch out with old, mysterious floppies...
Lol, virus.. now there's a rare concept on my OS
Yeah, that's because, in general, risk of infection is directly proportionnal to the popularity of your platform. No virus under BeOS, but not much users neither.
I bet you talk about Linux, then if one day your dream come true, and Linux get 85% of the desktop market, I bet you'll not live long without a strong anti-virus.
If you talk about OSX .... then give it some time ...
Actually the closest to virii is viri
Viri is the plural of the latin word vir
vir means men
So it looks like bunch of people here is infected by the men
or it is a kind of.. Misanthropy?
Half the world's been infected!!!
It seems i can't vote (the only thing that is showing is the current result).
Any way my answer is NO even using Windows XP i find little reason to justify running a resource hog like an anti virus (at lest from my experience).
I don't even use IE or Office and i just delete unknown email with attachments in Outlook Express (once i figure out how thunderbird works I'll stop using this one has well)
Still i do run the Panda Anti virus online scan once in a wile
"i find little reason to justify running a resource hog like an anti virus (at lest from my experience). "
I'll make sure I mention that to your ISP the next time I get a hit from your subnet.
No, and I run Windows XP. Really there's not a need for it as long as you're careful. I do have Norton on this box, but I don't *run* it. it's a waste of system resources. I've only had two very minor viruses in over 10 years of using PCs.
So I just scan like maybe once a month?? Just to make sure something didn't sneak in with my downloads. otherwise I don't have much use for it.
So no, I'm not worried... As long as you're careful about things you're not going to get infected...
Nice instructions for a cracker...
http://www.free-av.com/
It's free for personal use.
I've not tried the one from Grisoft, anybody knows which one is best?...
The problem is not the pathogen, but the health of the forest. We have all been saying the same thing in different ways. No, I do not use anti virus software in BeOS. The chances of getting infected with a BeOS virus --- there is one that i have heard of that changes your default bash prompt, more of a Trojan horse than a virus though as it does not replicate --- are slim to none. Even if there were viruses in BeOS, the chances of getting a virus from email or even downloading software is remote. A virus on BeOS would have to spread from one BeOS machine to another. This is tough to do with BeOS, MACOS, Linux, BSD ... etc. but quite easy in Windows.
Just because I do not use Windows does not mean that I am not affected when there is a major virus attack. The sites that I frequent and my ISP all go slower due to the increase in Internet traffic. Some things that I like to do are just not available. A virus / worm attack on Windows is an attack on the Internet.
The Internet is the forest. It is not a healthy forest. Just as in the Pacific Northwest, the US Government has insured that the forest is dominated by one species of tree Windows on the Internet, and Douglas Fir in the real forest. Windows is promoted by the Government because the Government is allowing Microsoft to dominate the computer Desktop OS market and a long time ago made MS WORD .doc files the default file format for internal and external communications.
In a one species dominated forest, pathogens can run rampant. The same pathogen can be released in a mixed species forest and the damage is much lower. The virus / worm / beetle / fungi / bacteria are usually species specific, and even if they do infect more than one species, the effects on a second species is usually much less. The same is true for electronic viruses. Windows viruses do not infect Linux or MACOS computers ... Linux viruses don't infect Windows computers. If the mix of computer "species" was more balanced on the Internet then viral attacks as we have seen recently could not occur. The Internet is important to our economic wealth. This needs to be protected. We need to balance the types of computers that access the Internet to protect it. We need to insure that Major OEM's of computer equipment offer to the general public more than one Operating system. This would go a long way towards protecting out Electronic environment.
Windows will not automatically become virus proof if it had 1% marketshare. I don't know where these assumptions come from. Windows will still be coded the same if it has 1% marketshare or 99%.
"I have a firewall and don't need AV"
This is precisely the mentality that gets you in trouble. AV and Firewalls are created for two different tasks.
People say that they don't have a virus. How would you know if you don't even run AV software? Or do you just know?
"People say that they don't have a virus. How would you know if you don't even run AV software?"
EXACTLY!
Even if Linux had 100% marketshare it would not have a virus problem like windows does due to the way it works. If I download an attachment in email I have to change its file permissions to even run it.
Windows architecture permits viruses to run rampant. Everyone else designed their systems with at least some security.
On the Mac platform it seems there are more anti-virus software packages out there than there are viruses (unless you run Microsoft software on your Mac). Also, Safari and Mail don't have any of the security holes inherent in the equvalent Microsoft software. Thus, whenever I see an article on viruses I can say: "oh, that's how those poor souls live".
I run Windows 2000 with a hardware firewall appropriately setup for the services I'm running with no AV. Why? Because I never open email attatchments. Because I don't download from websites unless they have decent reputations, because I keep my system patched, because I'm not clueless. On occasion I will hit the free web-based scanners just to make sure, but I have yet to find anything.
Finally (yipee) the main email servers at Purdue University have started scanning email as they come in. Although since I use Pine for email, I probably wouldn't be hurt by a virus under Windows or Linux, but its a quick (and for me, free) way to scan files...just email a suspicious .DOC, .EXE, or .ZIP to myself and I instantly know if the file is infected or not...
My philosophy is simple: "never execute code you dont trust."
This is why I primarily use linux now - I can dive into the source if I want (or contract someone if I'm not capable myself, so not being a coder is no exscuse) and find out exactly what Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, or any other linux does. And when I get new OS, I _always_ check md5sums!
Unfortunately, having access to the source is no guarantee that the executable(s) are virus or trojan horse free. See:
http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/
I know this makes me somewhat concerned about GCC, especially after the breach at FSF a few months ago.
No, I don't. I use a firewall and I don't open stupid attachments (try this free screensaver!! yeah. right.)
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,39020357,2098446,00...
It's possible for commercial software to have viruses. Never thought to look there, aye?
Well... yeah... but why would anyone buy a powerpuff girls dvd anyways?
"Well... yeah... but why would anyone buy a powerpuff girls dvd anyways?"
Yeah, that's a good excuse not to use AV. How 'bout this..
http://www.nha.com/news/archives/msvirx.htm
No one bought Windows 95 either..
Run an AV, don't let your arrogance or your belief that "you know so much more about viruses than everyone else" drag down *MY* bandwidth.
A Firewall and an Anti-Virus are 2 different things.
You still need both.
My main OS SuSE Linux has no Anti-Virus, but WindBlows machines behind my Router and Firewall do run antivirus on them.
There are many types of Viruses (un-wanted programs, hackers probing, back doors etc…) Even Linux, Mac, BSD, Unix are potential victims. They are quite a bit less vulnerable than Billy’s stuff, but still run risks.
Point is, A Firewall and an Anti-Virus are 2 different things.
Don't open attachments, EVER, unless you know EXACTLY what they are -- and make sure they AREN'T executable files.
Don't download weird software from unknown sources on the Internet.
And...that's about it. I've been using computers of various sorts since the mid-80's, and I've NEVER gotten a virus. *Never*.
Jared
"I am surprised at the number of supposedly smart Windows users who are not running A/V programs. "I am smart, so I don't get infected." How nice. So how do you protect yourself from e.g. a worm that infects you via a JavaScript exploit in IE? (IE has lots of unpatched holes)"
Smart Windows users have either manually ripped IE out of their operating system or gotten a program to do it for them. Same thing with OE. They also don't use MS Office. The e-mail program they use is text only. A smart user has less than 10 services enabled in Win2K and any extraneous protocols disabled. Need I go on? I've been using computers since 1979. Never had a virus yet. Never use A/V software. It's not because I am not vulnerable, but because I make myself a small target. A person that makes a virus/worm is seeking to disrupt the largest number of people possible. So if you are part of a large demographic, you are wearing a target and someone WILL fire... Using IE and OE, is like playing with small pox without a bio-suit.
Of course, you're going to say that this isn't possible at work. Well, then whoever it is who implemented the software at your company is a short-sighted moron, or has bosses who are morons...
"A Firewall and an Anti-Virus are 2 different things."
Usually, yes. However, there are some "firewalls" that do more than just firewall. I use Astaro Security Linux http://www.astaro.com/php/statics.php?action=asl&lang=gb , which has (among MANY other features) integrated virus-scanning capabilities as an add-on, so it'll handle cleaning your email and all web traffic, though you'd still be vulnerable to something that made its way onto your system via a CD or floppy (does anyone use those anymore? I don't...).
Configure OE for restricted sites in Tools/Options/Security and configure your Internet Explorer's 'Restricted Zone' for minimal access. That solves much of OE's vulnerability.
I use IE for known sites and Netscape hooked into Proxomitron w/ Java and Javascript disabled for everything else. That takes care of the IE problem.
I have an AV and FW installed on my 500mhz P3 computer to handle malicious coding and people. Disabled unnecessary ports, shutdown unnecessary services, and update about a week after new updates are released for Windows to watch and see if there are any bugs with the patches.
Removing IE and OE aren't a necessity, they just need to be locked down.
I run WinXP and Win2K behind a firewall, and I haven't been infected by a virus yet.
No infections, no hackers, no problems.
I don't think they're necessary if you know what you're doing. I once had two under Windows, but that's because I was in a n00bish phase. I never got one on Linux. I use a firewall and I don't run virus-prone software (IE, MS Lookout, etc), so you can say I'm immune to 95% of existing viruses right now. Sure, there's always the 5%... One could penetrate through my firewall via an exploit or I could simply get a trojan taking connections from an open port on the firewall... That's a gamble I take. I don't want to lose up to 25% of my performance just because I *could* get a virus.
I don't consider myself as being immune just because I use Linux most of the time, but even AV & firewall users shouldn't consider themselves immune... That's the worst mistake to do. Yes, that e-mail attachment might be blocked by your crappy NAV or VirusScan, but it might also wreck them, making them useless.
Oh... I know that I could get a virus even if I'm "playing safe", so I'm still scanning my computer from time to time when I'm on Windows. I usually use this service: http://housecall.trendmicro.com/
Ativo, I was joking about the powerpuff girls thing.
Anyways, i've been using windows since Windows 3.1 and haven't gotten a virus yet, and i've never used anti virus software. Sure, it's theoretical possible I could get a virus - but not likely.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-935994.html
Copies of Visual Studio.NET were distributed with the Nimda virus on them to south Korean developers.
Not all viruses come in emails, or from dubious sources. Unless of course, you consider Microsoft to be a dubious source.
I agree with you somewhat. That is the smart thing to do if you have to use them. But you are still at risk, because if enough people wise up like you have, all it will do is make the worm writers seek other ways to break it. You are still the #1 target and believe me, there are ways to get around those settings. All you have done is stalled the inevitable. IE is the worst browser on the market right now. Why would you use it if you didn't have to? And anyone who enables html in their e-mail is as much responsible for killing bandwidth on the internet as the worm writers...
BTW, inspite i use BeOS as my main OS, i think it is more dangerous than most "unix-alike systems" (Thanks to SCO i don't risk now to say even unix-like:).
We are running it in SU mode - real permission management is yet implemented, and i really is much more interested if Zeta adresses THIS issue than any flame about 1GB limit.
And some of us are running servers on BeOS which can spread viruses, some have FAT pertitions mounted, on same machines or via CIFS, some have SAMBA installed - all in "root" mode.
As of yet, there are no known viruses for OS X. So, I'm not sure what the anti-virus software would be looking for.
Hell no. To my knowledge, there are no modern viruses for BSD.
I run ClamAV on Linux, installed it this week, but I don't know if it's working, and of course I dont really need it... I just need to be able to say yes linux has AV software...
I voted no, but I should add that I do, sort of, but not all the time and not for "my" OS.
I have berav and ravlin installed in BeOS and Linux respectively, but only for use to repair the poor wayward and infected Windows systems I get in to fix.
Both were a product of GeCad Software- Rav AntiVirus. Easily one of the best I've used, but unfortunately I believe headed for extinction or far worse, as they've been bought by M$.
I guess M$ has more of a need for a great anti-virus product than anyone else, huh!!
I'm using linux most of the time so no, although I have dowloaded a free f-prot version for linux from F-Secure...
and accofringly to it there are like 259 known viruses for linux...
On windows it would be a big mistake to have a anti-virus program.
Note: I previously posted has Dra (Auto complete glitch)
Aitvo wrote:
> I'll make sure I mention that to your ISP the next time I get a hit from your subnet.
What? Please elaborate.
In any case i know I'm not safe you never are no mater the OS you use. I take some precautions by using the built in firewall and disabling some services (Netbios over TCP, Messenger...) and the occasional Anti virus scan and personally that's enough for me, but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.
The poll result is somewhere around 40% for YES. And all i read is self-important blabla from the naysayers and gross misconceptions of security by obscurity. Fucking UNBELIEVABLE!
I've read through most of the 119 previous posts and while there are some voices of sanity, i gathered 3 main arguments, why you don't use Anti-Virus Software (AVS).
1) You are smart.
2) You are using a different OS than MS Windows.
3) AVS hogs resources.
I will address these arguments in reverse order.
Ad 3) So do viruses. I assume (in your benefit) that you refer to the resident guardians like VShield or some such. When you are so hard pressed for resources (doubtful on contemporary machines, but i regress) use a scheduled scanner. Cronjobs or MS Windows scheduler tasks do this quite nicely. Heck, lots of commercial AVS brings it's own scheduler if you are to lazy to configure your OS.
Ad 2) Agreed, MS Windows or software running on this platform is the primary target of viruses but what makes you think that therefore there are noviruses for other platforms? That's somewhat like the unicorn in the drawer comparison (check Dilbert for details). And answering this, i quote from Twelve Angry Men , Juror 8: "It's possible, that's all i am saying!"
I don't know about BeOS or so, but i know that for GNU/Linux there is at least one free (speech and beer) virus scanner: Clam AV. Put it in your crontab and update once a week, it's not a hassle. Just do apt-get install clamav clamav-freshdata.
Ad 1) Yeah, and you're in control all the time. Sure. That's probably the reason why you don't fasten your seatbelt when you enter road traffic.
I can't believe this. And you fancy yourselves to be somewhat geeky...
Now flame away, if you must.
Or whatever package management system you are using. Red Hat is rpm -i clamav, if i am not mistaken. Do some reseach for other distros.
Yes i do on my FreeBSD mail firewall we use F-prot and uvscan to filter out infected mails before they run into our LAN
Use AV on my main computer (Win2k, no SP). But I don't feel threatend becuase I have a router with a built in firewall. And besides.. I'm gonna get rid of my PC soon and get a PowerMac (wish it was a G5 . And I wont be running AV on that machine either, because it will be behind the same firewall and OS X is a much more secure system.
Btw, to all those who say that Linux also will have lots and lots of viruses when it gets more populare, or even becomes the most popular OS on the market. Forget it - Linux (and Unix) is by default a more secure system then any Windows.
>> Btw, to all those who say that Linux also will have lots and lots of viruses when it gets more populare, or even becomes the most popular OS on the market. Forget it - Linux (and Unix) is by default a more secure system then any Windows. <<
Yes, right you are and i bet this will be a great source of comfort when your user account is down in flames. Or, when you're an admin, it will make explaining why the company's ftp-server is crippled so much easier, etc. Maybe your GNU/Linux will not break down altogether, but there are exploits in GNU/FSS/OSS software and it is tremendously shortsighted to expect that these will not be targeted.
This poll and the reactions don't say a lot. Especially the poll doesn't. "I am using Amiga + AmigaOS as my main box and i don't ever install any software at all nor do i ". Oh my, would an AV make my Mig to a a toad. Anyone running AV on their AMIGA? Does it even exist?
Otoh, my other box is running Windows 95, and has only a printer. It's not connected to the internet and it doesn't have a floppy drive (this one's fictional). I vote 'no' and therefore contribute to the outcome whereas it seems that people don't keep such situations in mind. A AV is NOT needed in all situations! In some it would be very much welcome, in others it ain't. Same counts for a 'firewall', 'anonimity', 'trojan scanner', 'ad buster'. What kind of use is an 'ad buster' when i don't even surf!
Another example would be one who compiles from source in combination with md5 checks. This makes the chance of getting a virus in that way 'low' that the resources which the AV resource costs might now be worth it therefore negating the 'So do viruses' argument. Let this be clear: i'm not stating that it's not worth it, i say it _could_ indeed not be worth it to run such a thing depending on a various number of factors which one should be able to decide himself.
The general problem with worms and virusses en masse is, and has always been, MS and it's software. And finally, the AV market is mostly driven by FUD and commercial BS.
For *nix users, the cost factor doesn't have to be high. For non-commercial *nix users there are various free (as in beer) solutions provided that the user registers for some solutions. For *nix users in general there are free (as in speech) solutions which might not be the best solution because of a lack of features or too small virus DB.
PS: can some admin please make a preview button here?
Did you even read what i wrote?
Unix, and all its bastards and offsprings have more focus on security, and are by design meant to be secure. Even if Linux gains 95% market share, I highly doubt we will se the amount and kind of viruses we now have for Windows.
Norton Anti-virus doesn't run on Linux. My main OS is Linux not Windoze! ;-)
I'm gonna have to check that out. Wonder why it's not more well known..
dpi: I can't argue a lot against your first two paragraphs. But it begs one question, why should an online poll consider machines that aren't online? I, for one, thought it very obvious that people answering and posting online are refering to their connected machines. Maybe this isn't the case.
About the third paragraph. First, I am in no way trying to force people to use AVS. I am only trying to point out the fallacy of some arguments brought against the usage of AVS. About the MD5 sum controled source. It _could_ (yes, i noticed) be true for alterations of the source after the MD5 sum is calculated and thus it _could_ protect you from later added trojans and/or viruses and therefore render AVS unecessary. But i think, that compiling from source doesn't protect you from exploits. If you also take the time to audit the source, then maybe. I am not saying that it is impossible to have a secure setup, but i think you will agree that it's a long and hard way to get there and i wager that your time is a more valuable resource than a machine's processing time.
The last two paragraphs. I agree that MS could do a better job. Currently they don't even get an E for effort. It's more like a "didn't participate". ABout thet AV industry, i disagree. Of course they use commercial approaches, hey they are businuesses and entitled to be "evil", and it's okay to rise concerns about computer security - even if it's only to make a quick $. Private users have a rather huge range of free (beer) AVS available and businuesses and state funded ventures can pay, if they insist to. I would recommend, "go GNU/Linux" instead of shelling out big bucks, but that's only me and my boss happens to disagree. Their choice, their money.
Commercial AVS claim to currently recognize about 90000 viruses, worms, trojans, etc. Clam AV claims about 9000 and i am convinced that the known 260 viruses for GNU/Linux are covered by Clam AV. Therefore i would agree that commercial solutions are to be preferred, but for a GNU/Linux only setup Clam AV is sufficient.
I second the request for a "preview" button
Yes, i read your post, did you read mine?
I maintain GNU/Linux is not more "secure by default" and relying on this false assumption will not help you when disaster strikes. That is what i wrote.
Now i will elaborate: Unix and offspring are a completly different breed to the likes of MS Windows. It is multi-user/multi-tasking compared to the single-user/single-task (and later multi-task) approach of MS Windows. The multi-user design makes it difficult to utilize system resources without the necessary rights, in this way it is safer than MS Windows, right. But there are exploits and it is possible to gain better rights through them. And these exploits will be targeted. I am convinced that once (and of course it will, who woul deny it :-) GNU/Linux reaches a market share of 95% it will be the target of as many viruses and other malware as MS Windows is now. The kind may be different, but from the users point of view i don't see the difference in loosing my home directory to loosing my MS Windows installation. My data is gone, my configurations are lost and i can't work with the damned machine because my admin was neglecting the security of the setup. When i am talking about a home-based machine i have to double slap myself for being so shortsighted.
Now that the evil monopolist MS is gone and all are using GNU/Linux (which i am doing now, Debian to be precise) we are all happy together and nobody (well, maybe the french, you know them! ;-) will write malicious software. Hello?
Regards nontheless.
Apparently only a few think that an AVS is necessary for GNU/Linux. http://clamav.elektrapro.com/
"But there are exploits and it is possible to gain better rights through them. And these exploits will be targeted."
True. But on the other hand, if you are able to break into a Windows system you have root more or less instantly, and you can do whatever you want. Btw, I'm talking about home systems here, not big databases of school networks.
Concerning viruses on Linux.. yes they will most likely multiply when Linux gains in popularity. But patches for Linux are released much, much more often than on Windows. If there is a flaw it's fixed almost instantly. And the Unix way of Root, /home and so on (not running your OS as root, as many do in Windows) makes it more hardened to attack.
got hit by a worm once a few years ago, have not had any virus or other worms on any OS I've ever run (OS/2, Win 3.x, Win 95, Win NT, Win 2000, Linux, FreeBSD, C-64, MacOS 7, 8, 9)
now the labs I've worked, that is another story, lots of virus and worms there
I don't run any sort of antivirus program on my Windows XP machine... there isn't any need provided the system is behind a firewall and its user isn't a moron.
I think their is a contradiction in their somewhere. (Don't run anti virus and isn't a moron? hmmmm.)
Why do so many people have this attitude? I've known many people that have said words to this effect, only to have to eat their own words.
my main pc dual boots between xp and linux.
under xp I use avg antivirus 6 (free) and kerio personal firewall (free also)
I have not had a virus in over a year and I feel confident enough with the security that xp will not get screwed up by a virus and leave linux unbootable.
I do not install any patches from microsoft, and I make sure everyone I know has the auto update crap turned off.
I'm not a gambler. In Windows - f/wall,A/V, AdAware, no OE or other MS s/ware, don't use IE, apply nec patches, safe computing practices in every way - never had a virus & wanna stay that way. No A/V in BeOS just caution. And my new h/d will multi-boot with Linux soon as I decide on a distro.
That's good, just don't turn your computer on and you'll be fine.
loss of business data on xp pro system convinced a small business owner to have his critical customer invoice program on computer not connected to the internet. KLez
virus had made multiple copies in the "return to date" back-up files. you guessed right,he tried to return to a previous date, thinking xp pro would fix the problem. $140
later, i was able to get his 2 systems back to "normal".
his internet machine is now upgraded to mandrake 9.1 and has had no problems.
In fifteen years of using Macintoshes (512K, MacPlus, SE/30, Powerbook 165c, PPC 7600/132, G3/400) I've had exactly ONE virus and that was back in the MacPlus days. How many new viruses have been reported for Mac OS X since it was released a few years ago? I thought so.
I played with ClamAV on the Red Hat box (which OS I additionally started playing with in January of last year) and nothing's turned up yet, so I don't leave it running all the time.
I really have to laugh every time I see a virus report that says "we're getting tired of saying this, but as usual, MacOS, Linux, and OS/2 are not vulnerable to this issue"
I don't allow my Windows XP installation to have networking of any kind. (Can't break into a place with no doors or windows) I do all that kind of stuff on BeOS or Mac OS X, neither which are virus targets (at least now).
Good article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34978-2003Aug23.html on why even if Mac OS had 85% marketshare, it would still be less vulnerable to attacks, and if attacked less damage would be done becuase the seperations of user and system space.
Mac OS X.2.6 no virus protection. Been using Macs since OS 7.0 w/ no protection.
2 Win2k machines both do nightly security updates and AVG anitvirus updates.
One Win2k machine handles all my backups, so I will probably be switching it to RH.
If I was stupid enough to pay for windows I would probably be smart enough to get a virus scanner. But Im not stupid so I dont have to be smart to compensate
I thought that the blaster/welchia virus had nothing to do with attachments and email/scripting? Just because you're clever enough to not open attachments or use Outlook... what about the viruses that specifically attack OS features of Windows (which is pretty much the whole problem with Windows)? The school I work at has a firewall and does not use Outlook for email. Yet, there we are, being screwed by the Blaster/welchia thing anyway. Had nothing to do with stupidity on the users' part. The users weren't the problem.
While I use FreeBSD, and I thus don't need a virus scanner, that Sobig.F still gives problems: only today alone I received 50 virus mails, along with 3 real mails.
Usually my WEB.DE address downloads the GMX mail and throws away the virusses, but today I decided to check my GMX mail directly and wham, that huge pile of virusses.
