Sun Microsystems is introducing its Linux distribution, Sun Linux, a part of the Mad Hatter project, to the general public today. Sun Linux is targeting the Enterprise market and at a very low price. OSNews had a sneak peak at Sun Linux last Friday at Sun's offices and here is what we saw there.
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It's nice to see Sun putting that Solaris code to good use. This has the potential to speed the development (and performance) of Linux somewhat and I hope that the industry thanks Sun (with purchasing). Those predicting Sun's death will be worrying now.
Right now Sun has NOT put any [significant] Solaris code to Linux. I don't know how you got this impression.
Is there anyway to get this separately from java desktop? I'd love eye candy like that for my gnome desktop. Anyone have any details about it? Is it the window manager, or a patch to X? (I haven't read the article yet, so this is prolly something thats answered there).
Right, how did he got this impression? I would like to see that Sun is improves linux :-)Liviu
> Right now Sun has NOT put any [significant] Solaris code to Linux. I don't know how you got this impression.
According to the article, Sun has plans to port a fair amount of Solaris code. I quote:
"Solaris has algorithyms and optimizations that make it scale incredibly well, much better than any other OS out there. But as Linux is getting more mature and Sun engineers choose on moving these optimizations to Linux...."
I agree that to date they haven't contributed anything substancial. The fact that they plan to in the future is significant considering that 2 years ago, McNealy would have laughed at anyone who suggested the idea.
The graphics shot looks fine by me. I still am quite fond of the older Sun platforms that ran News in plain old black & white (or was it greyscale) on olden 68Ks. We got the job done, the SW that ran on it is still light years ahead of what runs today on some systems today. I expect I will be working on one of these Sun Linuxes sooner or later but only as a terminal to the real macoy.
>According to the article, Sun has plans to port a fair amount of Solaris code.
The article says "...*choose* on moving these optimizations...". They might not choose to, you can not assume that! You are assuming that they will!! The article does not say that they will do so for sure!
Looking Glass 2 is a stand-alone application and it is not integrated to X or Gnome, therefore is not of much use for most people right now. Yes, it has its own window manager, and desktop space, but not being able to use the Gnome desktop instead of its own is not good, as Looking Glass is not much of a DE regarding usability, it is just a preliminary cool-looking demo, a proof of concept if you must.
There is quite a way and work to be done to have this properly setuped and get it integrated to X. But as a proof of concept, this demo does show that it CAN be done and Sun DOES have the capabilities to do it.
All they need, is a kick in the butt to do the job properly and integrate it to XFree. 
So looking glass 2 is just another DE? That sucks.
They should have implemented it as a hardware accelerated window manager, then maybe patch gnome-panel to add the other requisite stuff. No interop with gnome sucks.
No, what you suggest is hacky. What needs to be done is real X support and then add this support to Gnome (autodetected if 3D is ON)
I was staring at my CDE desktop on Solaris x86 and thinking "If Sun wants to push Java so much, they really need to think beyond the Management Console and do an entire desktop." It would have to be geared for the sort of light client/heavy server model that McNealy loves so much. And it would have to be about 800 times faster than the Management Console. At least that's the impression I get on my 500mhz K6-II and my dual 200mhz Ultra Creator II .
On a more snide note, I also thought it sort of funny that Sun contributed to the Human Interface Guidelines for Gnome, then it struck me as genius. Of course they are experts; all they had to do was collect the tech support call info they got as a result of deploying something as horrifying as CDE.
> I also thought it sort of funny that Sun contributed to >the Human Interface Guidelines for Gnome, then it struck >me as genius.
This is not true actually, even if most people think of that. Sun contributed the accessibility code, and not the HIG. Proof from the HIG master: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/Ars_Technica_Article_and_correction...
emmm, call me dim if you like,
but I just can't seem to find any links to sun linux on their website. I can only find solaris, redhat linux and suse linux 
will someone please post the link ?
"Java Desktop System" will be released tomorrow and Sun will update their site tomorrow (Tuesday) with info. Do not expect any download versions btw, it is only available to Enterprise customers.
Eugenia says : "Usability aside, it is not particularly attractive theme. "
Well, neither is the WinXP default theme (au contraire, it can even be considered plain and ugly compared to today's best-of-breed KDE/Gnome themes). But Eugenia, you were the one who always claimed that usability comes first, right?
... and with a slow Java, I don't think that Looking Glass 2 responsve really usable to work with...
Btw, Suse 8.3 is out really soon and Gnome 2.4 is out.
I think I get a copy of Sun's Linux to have SO7 and Sun specific fonts, etc... ;-)
There will be no SuSE 8.3, it will be called SuSE 9.0.
>But Eugenia, you were the one who always claimed that usability comes first, right?
Yes, usability DOES come first. But I have not USED Sun Linux yet! I was at Sun's offices for a demo session.
Also, in that particular sentence I talk about the aesthetics of the distro, which are not good, not about the usability. And yes again, usability does come first.
I don't understand why you had to write this comment, my sentence was very clear.
I was intrested in Looking Glass so did a search for it, found a nice picture of it. Maybe others are intrested in it too, so here's to save you some trouble:
http://www.gulker.com/photos/2003/lookingglass.jpg
There is no such thing yet. The current stable SO is at version 6.0(update3) which is based on OpenOffice1.03. The development version is at version 6.1Beta2 (based on OpenOffice1.1RC2, even though OO1.1 is at version RC4 now)). StarOffice 7.0 (OpenOffice2) is expected to be released in the first quarter 2005).
Codename for SO6.1 is "Geordi".
Codename for SO7 is "Q"
For information on SO/OOo roadmaps go to: http://tools.openoffice.org/releases/
hopefully, the community won't pursue half a dozen concepts to achieve 3d-enabled deskop, but'll focus on the maybe 2 most promising projects (and ifsun's behind one, that _sounds_ promising, although-written in java?!).
this behaviour-starting redundant projects doing basically the same, but because of lack of manpower, none of them getting really finished, means doing what they ought to do in full, is often quite enerving.
so before there will be large-scale work on 3d-support, i would prefer to see the old stuff finished and integrated properly-otherwise there will never be a usable desktop for linux.
Ignoring Trashcan's views of 'nice'....
Look at http://art.gnome.org for an idea of some really impressive window borders/GTK themes
This one is a bit larger: http://www.gulker.com/photos/2003/looking_glass_full_res.jpg
Too bad they didn't hire an artist to make something nice of it though.. :/
I want that Spiderman theme in Trashcan's posts. 
But I don't think any of those themes are gnome 2.x either
I think I will be sticking with the best "theme" of all ... Mac OS X! And I used to be so impressed with Sun.
I second that! Aqua is in term of usability and look much nicer than anything ive seen/used in gnome/kde.
And exuse me for saying this (ill properbly be reported as abuse now) much nicer than the cartoonish gui of BeOS (old user there aswell).
In so many ways Aqua seems to be so much more professional than most other interfaces around, and ofcourse they are backed by huge amounts of cash so that answers the question of why they are... (just to bad they inforce the damn metal sh*t)
But i still have to admit that gnome has come a long way in the past 3 years
If Sun hates Microsoft so much, why are they copying them so slavishly in the UI? Is it really the case that long-time Windows users will be more likely to accept Linux if it has a Start menu that matches Windows in appearance, even if it is so different in all the details?
Thank heavens we have Apple, who are willing to push the boundaries of UI design, even though Microsoft makes themselves look like such idiots when they try to copy Apple and make a complete hash of it (I run WIndows in Classic mode, because Luna is too hideous for words).
I'm not sure what this systems runs like, but I'd be very wary of a "Java Desktop". If they are anything like some of the cobalt boxes that sun has been selling, that would suck real bad. From a useability perspective, SUN just doesn't cut it, I'd sooner build a box from scratch and wait on SUN.
Sun is a billion-dollar company with tons of experience. Isn't it time they finally got some good UI and graphic experts? The UI here is hideous and completely unbelievable for a product that is supposedly designed to compete with Windows.
to me why certain unamed person(s) consider the default for SUN Linux as "ugly". It seems that we have ALOT of arm chair critics who have never worked in the industry and yet think that their "limited experience" entitles them to give their 5cents worth.
This is for an enterprise environment. The GUI is plain, simply and conservative. The number one priority is locking down the desktop so that the only thing the end user can do is actually WORK! amazing, WORKING AT WORK! what a brilliant concept.
The only people I hear complaining are the a-typical lazy employees who spend more time instant messaging, emailing instead of working and posting on osnews.com. Your purpose at work isn't to re-arrange your pot plants or re-tune your desktop theme to fit into your feng-sui and balance your "inner spirit", you are there to work and contribute to the over all working of the organisation.
If you want to have a different desktop or different types of applications, that is what you have your home computer for. When you are at work, you are using company equipment. if you don't like it, quit, join the dole queue and hopefully (in this era of outsourcing) find an employer who is willing to "accomidate" your ideocycracies and "problems" with particular company policies.
What are you on about?! People aren't talking about users customising workstations, they're talking about the appearance of the default desktop. You don't need to be any expert to give a subjective opinion on the appearance of a desktop.
As regards usuability, users with poor eyesight may want to change to a high-contrast colour scheme and raise the font-size. Gnome supports this, Suns Java Desktop System (JDS) probably will too - except that the Launch button, which looks like an image to me, will be totally unaffected by these changes. Even by website standards that's poor usability.
Also I would say that the XD2 layout is more attractive and easy to pick-up. The JDS looks like a typical geek box, all dark colours and applets any odd place. In my own fallible, subjective, flawed etc. opinion it compares poorly on aesthetic grounds with all the other desktops out there (from Redhat to Aqua to Windows XP)
Not strictly true; the individual Yast2 modules are available in the Preferences menu, just like any other GNOME control panel.
Eugenia wrote: "This is not true actually, even if most people think of that. Sun contributed the accessibility code, and not the HIG."
Gabriel said Sun contributed *to* the HIG, which is absolutely true... probably about half of the current version was contributed by Sun usability guys. Mostly me
> Gnome supports this, Suns Java Desktop System (JDS) probably
> will too - except that the Launch button, which looks like an
> image to me, will be totally unaffected by these changes.
It's an image, but it's just part of the icon theme. So anyone requiring a large print, high contrast theme will get a large print, high contrast Launch button.
I found the Sun Linux desktop UI to be just clean and functional. No whiz-bang, but I never liked that, either. I whink this UI is a winner in the corporations.
I personally don't understand why everyone gets all bent out of shape on the fact that Sun hasn't contributed significantly to the linux kernel. To tell you the truth, I don't blame them. Isn't the point of open source to give people and companies a choice. Sun has made a choice not to contribute to increasing the scalability/stability of the linux kernel because it is not in their best interest. That's perfectly acceptable to me. By spreading such technologies as OpenOffice, nfs, Java, etc. Sun has probably done more to ensure that users have a plethora of free choices in the market place(if not completely open source). Sun has also accounted for a disproportionate share of the innovations in the marketplace. Do I agree with everything that they do; no I don't. However, I would much rather have a healthy and successfull Sun who at least considers trying to be a good citizen then deal with the alternative(ie. M$).
Am I to assume that, since this is heavily based on Gnome and other open-source software, that it will be freely downloadable? If so, will the entirety (aside from StarOffice, as it is a commercial product) be freely available?
From the article: "The desktop has a 'This Computer' icon which gets you to the 'root' of Nautilus' window which includes the / and home folders...."
I suppose it is a bit early to be assuming (or perhaps even speculating about) this, but will the default install on each PC include access to / as well as each user's /home?
Realize that Sun's "scalability" isn't so much from running the antiquated, bloated pig, 1988, SVR4-like Solaris.. but it comes from the HW architecture. What's weird is that Linux is begining to scale on the grotesque x86 architecture to the point of competing head-to-head with Sun which owns their architecture. Sun should beat Linux on x86 to a pulp.. the fact that it doesn't is a tribute to the work done in Linux and the LACK of work on Solaris.
Open Source does not equal to Free Software, it only assures that users are granted the right to receive the source code of the applications they are working with. Whether application is free or not is completely a differente matter.
" Realize that Sun's "scalability" isn't so much from running the antiquated, bloated pig, 1988, SVR4-like Solaris.. but it comes from the HW architecture."
You, too, are incorrect. The Solaris of today is not a "antiquated, bloated pig, 1988, SVR4-like Solaris" but a rather highly tuned kernel with fine-grained threading and scheduling. The reason machines like the Sun Fire 15K can scale to 100+ CPUs so well is due to Solaris' ability to keep all the CPUs scheduled, given there are sufficient threads to divvy up.
No flames intended here. Just correct me if I am wrong.
Assuming MOST windows people would like to keep an OS for 3 years, isnt this expensive. I dont know the full details about the support/upgrade options for this yet( that is simple upgrade of OS or full installation of OS or free upgrades after one year). If people need to dish out $50-100 and (may have to) reinstall the OS every year, in the end its seems to be an expensive option.
Star Office 7: http://www.sun.com/staroffice
I'm sorry but I'm really dissapointed in the look of tehs ystem and that it is using 2.4 instead of 2.2 which is pretty strage since 2.2 came out before Sun Linux. Also SO 7? i Thought we were at 6.1!
I would like to see every GUI have an easily selectable NeXTSTEP/Windows 95/default toggle switch. I'll make an exception for MacOS, but otherwise I want absolutely zero candy stuck in my eye.
It about time Sun has is own desktop.
All Java Programmers out their Will now have a Desktop To Play on. Now Java will really take Off. :-)
Isn't it a bit foreboding that the background shows a sunset? :-)
"There will be no SuSE 8.3, it will be called SuSE 9.0."
Where did you read this from, i haven't seen any information at all about the next SuSE. I also think that RH and SuSE are both very very stupid to go from a 1.0 release to another 1.0 release without any in betweens. SuSE and RH should save their 1.0 rleases for GIMP 2, KDE 3.2, GNOME 2.6, Linux 2.6 etc. I knw RH's next one is named 10 and of course there is not justificationf or this but SuSE skipping to 9.0 instead of 8.3, I thought they would keep tehir traditions of making 0.3 releases, and I'm sorry to see them do this.
>Where did you read this from, i haven't seen any information at all about the next SuSE.
There are beta testers around, you know, and they have seen the product...
But, how would I know that he is a beta tester ? I assumed he was just reading froma nother place, which is more likely IMO.
Also far, you posted this last time too, first of all how do you know the Sun is setting and how does the wallapper relate to the desktop and Sun really?
Jeeze- how lame can you get! The Java Desktop System? I mean, it's still a little lame when Microsoft appends or prefixes .NET to everything in their new product line- but now Sun is doing it with Java? That is 100 times worse! I mean, this JDS Linux distro has just about as much to do with being driven by Java as my OS X machine. Yes, Java is installed, and I have a couple apps that use it, but it's hardly the centerpiece of my machine, and not at all important enough to be put in the FREAKING NAME of the FREAKING PRODUCT.
Hell, Sun doesn't even eat (much) of their own dogfood. Yet, they have the just enough retardation to call their Linux distro the "Java Desktop System." Sometimes It seems a bit goofy to see Microsoft calling a lot of products "MS Somethingorother.NET," but it still makes sense in way- Java is a language, .NET is a whole system, a "vision." I imagine there are more .NET-based apps shipped with Longhorn and perhaps MS Windoze Server 2k3 than there will be Java apps as a part of this "Java Desktop System." I mean, shiiit: Sun, if you want people to take your language seriously for desktop apps, take it seriously yourself. Learn about its failings for end-user by writing, testing and using apps written in Java... And then fix those flaws!
New from Apple! The "Perl Desktop Operating System!" (nee Mac OS X) It includes perl! It runs perl! AMAZING!
Hell, Sun doesn't even eat (much) of their own dogfood.
I won't tell you of my relationship with SUN but I can assure you that there are SUN Rays, Blade 150, Ultra Sparc 10's, 5's and 20's everywhere, infact, it is a chore trying to find atleast one machine with Windows running on it, either via the PCI expansion card or on an x86 via vmware.
Depending on the office (internation location), most of SUN have moved over to SUN Ray appliances.
If you want to jump on someones case, how about SCO who uses Windows 98 and Netscape 4.7 in their organisation. The old, "everyone use UnixWare, but we wouldn't touch it with a 40foot pole" routine.
As for Java, in an upcoming Staroffice there will be the ability to write macros in Java.
I'm so sick of watching the industry pilfer ideas off of Apple... is there no one else capable of an original idea? -Oh but Xerox came up with the first mouse driven GUI.... yada yada yada - and just what were they doing with it?? Who took it and ran with it? Oooooo maybe in like 4 years all you free-loading Linux users can watch your windows shrink å la genie effect to your task bar... I'm holding my breath for you!
If you actually use Unix of some sort you will realise that is not a problem. I think you misunderstand the difference between the root directory and the root user account.
good opinion, i'm _partly_ agree with you
anyway, Java is not just a language, it's truly a platform.
Perhaps Sun should take a look at the Java for X desktop environment that put v0.1 out. A little rough but with some development and some skins like those that were made for Morpheus, this could really be something interesting to look at and watch develop.
http://jdx.sourceforge.net/
Seems to me like this would be the REAL Java Desktop System
