Here is our review of the new 1.25 GHz 15" Powerbook G4. 
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I have the same machine configuration and agree with most of what is in the review. The only complaint I have is the advertised 4.5 hour of battery life is a largely inflated number. With power management tuned for long battery life and brightness at the mid point, I get a good 2 - 2.5 hours max. Any one know of any tips for increasing this?
The status page said September 29th through yesterday night (which was the 29th). This morning, I log on and it's been bumped back a week. Pretty lame. I would have preferred an honest estimate up front.
You wrote: "... but the inclusion of a large 512 MB L2 cache..."
uh... I think "...a large 512 Ko L2 cache" is better... 
I had the same experance untill I turned off the Airport then the batterly jumps up to amost 4 hours--- unfortunatly I usually want that turned on. (I actually have the 1GHz TiBook, so my experiance is not with this exact model.
I am a PC/linux user but the reports of the snappier feel from this laptop and its sturdy nature has me thinking about considering a mac the next time I am hunting for a laptop.
My wife is a teacher and if they don't ax the mac like they have been talking about this sort of review is the kind of thing that will get me in a mac store checking things out.
They have always been beauties but it is nice to see that beauty is meeting substance head on as well.
The best part of this review is that it did not:
1) Become a praise all things Apple review like you see from some mac fans.
2) It did not become focused on Mac/Win comparison but at the same time mentioned other laptops and their behaviors for comparison. A tight line to walk and he did it well.
Thanks all in all a wonderful review.
but the inclusion of a large 512 MB L2 cache seems to do the trick
512 MB eh? I think you meant KB.
Nice job with the review. Its all the usability details that count when buying something so expensive. Thanks for talking about the little quirks that a lot of reviewers always leave out.
I love my little 12" iBook, but these new PB's are awfully sweet. I wonder if I can convince my wife that we need a second notebook ...
I ordered my 15" on Sept. 22 and I also had an estimated ship date of 9/29/03. I received the email on 9/29 that pushed my ship date back to 10/06/03 which I was heart broken about.
BUT, low and behold! Today, I received an email indicating that it shipped just today (9/30/03) and gave me a tracking number. Its almost Christmas! 
As an Inspiron 8200 owner, I have to agree with they cheap and plasticky comment. Its a great computer (fast, loaded with memory, and the screen is to die for) but its not a very good laptop. Its not very portable, not only because its large and heavy, but because its feels so delicate that its hard to carry around. Laptops is a department that Apple can really excel at. The ultimate in speed isn't usually that important, and the human factors can be a very big deal.
Looks like Apple is flooded with 15" PB orders. I was actually expecting mine this week, but I checked with the shop this morning: they now have it listed for Oct. 9 (sigh). Oh well, another week to go for my trusty old iBook2...
I'm another Dell 8200 owner that is very disappointed in the quality of the material used to build the Inspirion 8200. This is the first machine that I've ever owned that I've worn shiny spots on the keys. Cheap plastic. The fit of the floppy drive in the bay is also very poor. My old 8100 was much better made than the 8200. Shame on you, Dell.
Will you review the "new" 12" too? Some people say the heat problems are gone etc.
unfortunately there are some issues with the latch mechanism in the new powerbooks. a friend decided to ditch his dell notebook and got his first powerbook last friday and it was very dissapointing that it didnt close. there are reports of similar problems from other users. Aditionally a clean reinstall of os x was needed since the machine was crashing frecuently after coming back from sleep mode. There was also a problem with the backlit keyboard. Very dissapointing considering how nice the machine looks and feels.
I have to say I've been looking rather heavily at the powerbooks since my HP is out of warranty. I want a machine that I can basically replace my desktop with (not a big deal now since I dont do alot of gaming) but has all the apps and functionality I want. Basically, that rules out Linux and Windows is just starting to get irritating. Apple really looks nice...but jeez I payed $1200 last year for a laptop that has the same speed as the Powerbook. It just feels...wrong to pay what you payed for that speed. Granted, the features are what run it up but still...
I'm getting ready to upgrade my 5 year old GateWay Solo laptop for something newer. If it were not for school needs, I would look into getting a PB instead (I write music and MACs are great for audio). Just about everybody is selling low quality laptop PCs and the only PC laptop that I have seen that says "sturdy" to me is IBM.
Nice review. It wasn't fawning and didn't bash. Also, glad to know they stretched the back-lit KB to the 15" models.
Great review. I just made 'the switch' about 3 months ago, no regrets here! Everyone at work is always like "eww its an Apple!!! it certanly does not do what my computer does.. hahahah..hahaha." . Its very suprising to see there faces when I open Virtual PC and startup Windows XP. =)
Just curious. What are the school needs that rule out MacOS? Are there specialized Windows-only software that you need to run?
yeah, I am interested as well.
you can do Word Processing, and if you need to send a doc to a teacher and do not want to buy Office, Text editor saves a RTF
I am a Comp Sci student and have no problem editing code in project builder...it even highlights for Fortran 77!! (it was a dumb asignmnet in a programming laguage concepts class) and with X-Code, damn I can't wait for Panther.
I just don't see what it is that people can't do with a Mac (other than a wider variety of games, but you are using a laptop not a desktop)
>>but jeez I payed $1200 last year for a laptop that has the same speed as the Powerbook>>
No you didn't. Unless you are referring to higher speed Pentium-4M with its over-exaggerated clock speed. Intel's best mobile processor is now the Centrino's Pentium-M (not 4M). The Pentium-M is basically the old Pentium III with some minor revisions. So ounce for ounce the G4 at 1.25 GHz makes for a kick butt notebook computer. Add to that all the other components including the ATI 9600 and it is a top-end notebook PC. Add to that it's design, size specs and construction and it really has no equal. IMO, only IBM engineers comparable notebooks.
Some people say that there is a megahertz myth and that a 1 gigahertz PPC chip is not the same as a 1 gigahertz intel chip. I have no idea if that is true or not.
All I can tell you is that when I switched from my Athlon XP 1600 box to my little 12" 700 megahertz iBook, I did not notice any difference in speed. I am not a power user, but I do enough cd ripping, video editing, and game playing to be able to tell if a machine is slow, and my 700 megahertz iBook is not slow. It does everything as fast as I need it to.
I honestly think that for the vast, vast majority of users (everyone other than those who do heavy video editing maybe or other tasks that require massive CPU power) that any of Apple's computers are plenty fast enough. And, with the G5, I would argue that even those power users now have an Apple machine that will provide the necessary horses.
I would recommend visiting an Apple store if you're near one and playing around with the machines. Don't automatically look at the numbers, that may or may not be a true comparison, and just try out a Mac. I really think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I know I was. And boy am I glad I switched.
My old 8100 was much better made than the 8200. Shame on you, Dell.
I don't know if the new ones are any better but my 4100 Inspiron sucks giant nuts in terms of the materials actually used to put the thing together. I have dealt now three times with dead spots on the keyboard and now my mouse button is giving me crap. I am so damn tired of having to open that thing and clean it out and reconnect the keyboard. I have almost stripped the screws I have had to pop the thing open so many times.
Ugh. Never buy a Dell laptop. My old Compaq Armada did better than this thing. If I do buy another x86 laptop its going to be a Sony Vaio -- never ever heard anyone fuss about their Sony.
These things look really cool. I did prefer the look of the TiBooks though, for whatever that isn't worth...
For a high price, of course. The only thing I don't like is the touchpad pointing device. A keyboard-integrated pointing stick (IBM-like) and it would be awesome. Beautiful design, as expected from Apple. As I said, the only thing lacking IMyMostHO is integrating the pointing device, it doesn't make sense to me having it way under the keyboard, unless for saving on cost; which is not Apple's case.
you say to yourself:
do I need a DVD-R?
if you do, then the question is, do you need a larger screen?
if you don't, then you get the 12 in PB.
if the DVD-R is not important to you and only need a CD-RW, then the question is, do you need a laerger screen. if you do, then the question is, why not just get a 14"iBook? is there that much of a speed hit with a g3? some reports say it is negligable...some testers say that a g3 is totaly usable and nice in panther. if a g3 is fine for you, then really, an iBook is probably the best bet as you get up to 6 hours battery life combo drive, 14 in screen, and all for the same price as a 12 in PB with a combo drive.
questions questions questions.
but then there are those who just buy the best they can afford and see the 12 in as a more powerful laptop than the ibook which it might be, but it certainly is not quantified by how much.
I have always hated the mouse weeny in the keyboard.
the touch pad is much more natural as it is a scaled down screen (I hate track balls as well)
but then touch pads have poor aspects as well. your hands get to greesy and dirty and you run into problems....of course, this is talking frommy HP pavillion and this mouse pad is falling appart.
Was this a review or a blog? You didn't even talk
about the new ddr ram, all you talked about are the
bloated aethestic qualities.
Update: The Powerbook has nifty PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM. Satisfied? But I figured you were as capable of typing http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html into your browser as I was.
Does anyone know if I can get 1920x1200 resolution
through the dvi port on an apple cinema 23" with
one of these laptops?
The video card should certainly support it, so I don't see why not.
Linux user wanting to buy a Powerbook ... my friend has an ibook with yellow dog on it and says it's performance is so much better than his dell notebook, and the dell is 900 mhz with 256mb of memory with linux and the powerbook is 700mhz with 256mb of memory. I say go for it, I plan to
DDR RAM on these notebooks is a pretty big joke. What use is RAM running at 333 MHz on a system bus that only runs at half that speed?
I'm not sure what everyone else is seeing, but the link URL takes me to Apple's website with a product description. That's no review, just advertising.
Vic
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html
What the hell????
Vic
Usually when you refere to an article in a sentence with an obvious URL, that URL takes you to the article. As in the past with MOST or ALL OS News posts.
vic
Yes that does seem to be the case, remember, its not only the processor that talks to the RAM, the other system components all run at full speed DDR. Sadly its the processor that needs to do it as well and i cannot understand scumorola when it comes to designing chips...support DDR already!
One point to make however is the performance considering the poor processor and the 167mhz system bus, its not to bad when compared against centrino's with higher specs.
No, sorry Vic, not for original OSNews.com stories. It is always under "Read Here."
See, for example, in the archives for the past week:
http://www.osnews.com/home.php?archives=week
Check out the stories entitled
"Editorial: The Challenges of Open Source Software"
"OS/2 Server Transition from IBM"
"Screenshots from Fedora Test-2/Severn 0.94"
As you can clearly see, these are original OSNews content, like this PowerBook review, and the stories are found by clicking the "Read Here". It's been that way for the past 1 1/2 years that I've been a regular reader on this site.
It's possible that the issue of the lid not closing might be intentional. This round of updates claims to allow lid-closed operation (so you can plug in external keyboard and monitor and use it like a desktop). But heat was always an issue preventing lid-closed operation, since so much of it gets conducted out through the keyboard. I wondered how Apple would now allow lid-closed operation since there seemed to be no new venting innovations.
Well, if you design it so there's a gap between the lid and body when it's closed, then you have a new ventilation path!
What do you guys think?
************************************
One point to make however is the performance considering the poor processor and the 167mhz system bus, its not to bad when compared against centrino's with higher specs.
************************************
isnt that just remarkable? sometimes, i feel i have the most outdated system based on specs alone (500mhz Ti, 512 mb, god knows the bus speed); but then i run my pre-release panther and compare it against my brand new 1.7ghz centrino with 512 mb and 400mhz bus speed and i think, "no, its really not that slow"
[i]My old 8100 was much better made than the 8200. Shame on you, Dell.
Christ. And there I was thinking my 8100 was badly built - noisy fan, creaky, weak and stiff hinge, worn-down keys, and the most plastic feel in the world. I actually can't imagine them making it less well-built.
Now all I need is the money for a 15" PB - I can hardly believe that I've been waiting to get an Apple laptop for over a year, jumping from "waiting for a speed bump" to "not enough money now, I spent it"! Sometime I'll get my act together
Vic has just laid down the dube, and is currently reading the review.
Just on a side note.
I am a switcher. I bought a dual 1.25 GHZ G4, took out the memory I had in my PC and now I have close to 2 Gig of ram. The performance is amazing. I can't believe I didn't switch earlier.
Last weekend I fixed a Tibook 500MHZ / 512 megs ram.
The person owning the laptop does mostly design.
I was surprised on how well this laptop performs.
With all the new products Apple is releasing looks like they might win quite a bit of market share in the next couple of years.
I think it was a well written review. Now, I just have to convince my other half to read the review, browse over to the Apple website and click this little button labeled "store".
S.
----------------------------
http://www.sideliners.ca
you say to yourself:
do I need a DVD-R?
if you do, then the question is, do you need a larger screen?
if you don't, then you get the 12 in PB.
if the DVD-R is not important to you and only need a CD-RW, then the question is, do you need a laerger screen. if you do, then the question is, why not just get a 14"iBook?
I feel the need to point out a few things:
(1) The 12" PB also has a Superdrive option.
(2) The 14" iBook has the same screen resolution as the 12".
(3) DVD-R isn't the only decider - the 15" has over the 12" the illuminated keyboard, gigabit ethernet, and FW800, not to mention processor, disc and graphics improvements.
You're overly simplifying.
David, thanks for the great review.
"The only thing I don't like is the touchpad pointing device"
Do you use it with your thumb or index finger? I found out using the thumb with your hands on the keyboard is more effective however needs more practice. The IBM "clitoris" (sorry girls that is what we call it anyway) I don't like at all...
Apple keeps surprising me again and again this year. I was waiting for this baby (15" renewed) and then my company gives me this peecee laptop Compaq Armada. Two laptops are a bit too much to carry so now I'm almost ready to buy the dual G5.
I'm glad that most people in this forum start to like Apple anyway, good luck and pleasure with your dream machines.
Seriously thinking about it.
Have to look into specifics. I am not OS religious really. If I can run most of my GNU apps in Mac OS X and it feels as snappy as this review says then I might try to live Apple-style to see if I can. This is working under the big-if that I can afford to get a new laptop of any type soon. Tired of crappy PC hardware honestly.
Does anyone know of a workspace switcher style app for the Mac and how hard is to applescript stuff and execute those through the Finder?
Multiple workspaces and nautilus scripts are two huge bonuses for a born-again hacker like myself.
Everything else sounds like gravy to get working under Mac OS X.
I am an owner of a powerbook g4 867mhz with 640mb of ram..
12 incher..
well i wouldve thought it would be fast compared to my ibook2 g3600mhz 640 mb of ram.. but of course it fell short.
I hear the hard drive trashing, the laptop gets hotter then the ibook2 and the 12incher is a bit more fragile then i expected. Also their isn't that much speed increase, once u really start using it. Also battery life sucks.. i remember calling apple about the batter life and the tech( heh, hurts to even call them that) said standard battery time (idle) is 4 hours..like what the heck, i dont care how long it is idle.. so i dont thinK I'll ever consider buying an apple.
I finally made the switch to Apple because I watched friend after friend who had previously been Linux fans switch to Macs. Our research lab bought dozens of powerbooks. When the time came, I knew it was right.
I bought a 12" powerbook in July. It feels like it has been carved out of a single solid piece of aluminum. It is that solid. I haven't had any problems with the latch mechanism, although there is a tiny bit of play. There is enough space between the screen and the keyboard that it doesn't require a cloth on the keyboard while closed (although the screen does get quite dusty if in a bag, where dust that naturally collects on the keyboard transfers onto the screen). It does get quite warm during gaming under the left palm rest, but I haven't ended up in the hospital yet, so I think I can deal with it.
A 12" screen is small, but it almost feels like 14". I use an external monitor frequently, and the graphics card can drive 1600x1200 without any problems. It only has VGA output, however.
I would like to get a 15" for the following reasons:
1. Larger screen.
2. DVI output.
3. Faster processor, faster and larger memory, faster graphics.
4. Backlit keyboard.
....But I think I will probably wait until next summer and try to get my money's worth out of this one. None of these features is a show stopper, so I think I can make it :-)
And yes, the 15" powerbook (both Ti and the new Al) can drive the 23" Cinema display without any problems: most Apple stores I have been in have this set up that you can try out.
well, I may have over simplified it, but I was working regressively.....if I do not need a DVD-r, then I do not need the higher end models of the 12 in or 15 in.
if I do need screen size, then I am not going to pick the 12 in PB, but I might consider the 14 in ibook since it has a combo drive which I decided above as being the only requirement for optical drive.
then it is down to performance. does a G3 900 under perform a G4 1 GHz that much that I would pay 500-700 (what ever the difference is) more for it?
I do not use floating point operations that much, so, altivec is not really a HUGE deal (floating point ops aside from what the OS needs) and as far as OS performance, if panther lives up to what testers say, will there really be a noticeable difference between a PB and an iBook in user experience?
I would get a PB, in-fact, I am hoping I will get one when my warranty on my HP laptop finally dies, BUT, the questions of what I wish for, and what I should buy are important.
of course, in a year and a half, the .9 NM g5s might be finding their way into PB and the g4 will be on .9 nm (or the g3 with altivec, which is what a g4 is anyway) will find their way into the iBooks. so then the choice is....g4 ok or should I get a pb with a g5....then the entire dynamic has changed :-)
There are a few Window-switching apps that are basically the same as virtual workspaces under Gnome, KDE, whatever. I've seen them, I don't use them, but check unsanity, versiontracker, etc. and do a google. They're out there.
AppleScript is very cool, especially now that Apple's starting to support it on OSX a bit more, coming up with GUI tools, etc. Pretty much everything is "scriptable" with a Mac, far more than under Windows. There are sites with zillions of sample scripts to get you learning. It's like Python, but not quite as powerful, I'd say (being a Python fan)... but nice when the job calls for it.
And to the guys who have Dell Inspirons, my dad just bought one, maybe an 8000(?), it's a widescreen anyway, but he's had NOTHING but trouble with it. Not necessarily the hardware, but XP forgets that he has a printer and then won't accept new drivers off the disk, can't connect to the net, etc. He got Blaster in under a minute. I have to fix all this crap for them, :-( Now he gave that laptop to my mom and got his old Compaq back (Win98). Now BOTH he and my mom have problems with their OSes. I always point out the simplest solutions, but nobody listens, they just follow the herd off the cliff....
And btw, GNU/Linux became OFFICIALLY better than any version of Windows for me yesterday, when Knoppix solved some major problems I was having at work that Windows choked on repeatedly.
I say: Buy a Mac. Dual boot OS X and Gentoo. Use the GPL and stab Bill Gates in the heart, while simultaneously blessing the rest of the world with your skills and thoughtfulness.
wow....either you are really nit picking, though the heat issue is a real issue, or you had a dud.
though you should have thought about it before you went in. you have a higher performing CPU than a g3 so of course it will have a lower battery life when using it (BTW, if you are using air port, that is why, all wifi devices suck battery life no matter WHAT device or maker)
as far as how fragile it is, in what way? my HP laptop makes me afraid to even carry it the way it creaks and rattles after just a year of ownership.
and, what kind of speed bump do you expect from only 267 MHz? you have so much ram in that iBook that it can more than make up for the processor deficiencies(no altivec) in software.
take that memory down to about 384MB in both. then see if you see a bigger difference.....also, Jaguar is much better on the g3 than its predecessor, and Panther is going to be even better. that could be why you are not noticing a speed bump...not to mention quartz extreme makes the UI more responsive anyway.
but again, the heat issue was a problem and I don't know if they figured out how to fix it, but I read that before I went to buy, so I know not to get one.
Space.app
at versiontracker.com
Remember that X11 is coming built-into Panther (IIRC). That's good. Just don't leave Linux forever, it's still the coolest for hacking away at.... and don't ever choose a GUI over freedom.
btw, this thread is starting to look like the letters column in Penthouse. See Diablovision's macerotic story above with the line, "...when the time came, I knew it was right."
Porn, I tell you. Porn.
wow....either you are really nit picking, though the heat issue is a real issue, or you had a dud.
though you should have thought about it before you went in. you have a higher performing CPU than a g3 so of course it will have a lower battery life when using it (BTW, if you are using air port, that is why, all wifi devices suck battery life no matter WHAT device or maker)
as far as how fragile it is, in what way? my HP laptop makes me afraid to even carry it the way it creaks and rattles after just a year of ownership.
and, what kind of speed bump do you expect from only 267 MHz? you have so much ram in that iBook that it can more than make up for the processor deficiencies(no altivec) in software.
take that memory down to about 384MB in both. then see if you see a bigger difference.....also, Jaguar is much better on the g3 than its predecessor, and Panther is going to be even better. that could be why you are not noticing a speed bump...not to mention quartz extreme makes the UI more responsive anyway.
but again, the heat issue was a problem and I don't know if they figured out how to fix it, but I read that before I went to buy, so I know not to get one.
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1. i personally dont think apples are fast compared to x86 hardware. I used to believe that hype, now i just don't bother with it.
2. I learned this from personal experience.
3. I bought my ibook, its "ok" could've gotten more on x86 laptop.
the powerbook was given to me from work. The powerbook got dented on the side.. hehe.. it sort of fell on the side. so yeah forget that. Scratch what i said. it still works
4. u dont hear x86 hd's thrashing like a mother.
5. os x on my g3.. ran slow.. havent updated yet so i might be wrong.. so i dualbooted with gentoo linux and it was considerably slow there too. 8mb gfx card = (
6. never again will i end up buying apple. they simply suck for my expectations.
For those concerned about having the lid close snugly, check out Wildeepz from RadTech:
http://www.radtech.us/wildeepz.html
They're little silicone cushions for all PowerBooks and dual-USB iBooks, which replace the little factory-standard rubber cushions. RadTech claims that they impart a more solid feel to Apple laptops. Haven't tried them myself, but I'm interested. Anyone want to trade a 15" AlBook for a 14" iBook?
Sorry, Wildeepz are manufactured of urethane, not silicone. My mistake.
"Ugh. Never buy a Dell laptop. My old Compaq Armada did better than this thing. If I do buy another x86 laptop its going to be a Sony Vaio -- never ever heard anyone fuss about their Sony."
Boy, are you in for a shock! Sonys are great (better bangs for buck than Dell) until they go wrong, and then you wish you never heard of them. Appalling customer service.
Toshiba then IBM then Dell then everyone else, with Compaq/HP bringing up the rear. That's how the PC reliablity hierarchy reads.
everytime a mac article is released.
anyway, i'm happy with my Dell Mobile Precision M50 notebook...but I'm saving up for a 15" powerbook.
I can back up the comment on sony's lousy customer service. they treat you like your gameboy is on the fritz, not a $3000 computer. The warranties are lousy, and getting them to fix your broken machine is like pulling teeth. I've heard the horror stories with Apple, but in the end it's always worked out well for me. When Apple has screwed up, a few complaints has always earned me a freebie (a free airport extreme once, and a spare powerbook battery another time) for my troubles. Dell is a class act when things break, however.
..is it optimal for panther? or 64MB is a must?
you have an old iBook then becasue the new iBooks have 32 MB video cards in them and have since Jag came out.
I have an HP, and I can tell you that there is little diffrence between Apple laptop speed and X86 laptop speeds, when you take into accout battery life. Centrino systems are the only ones that can even come close to the battery life and a g3 (a new g3) can perform on par with a centrino pentium-M.
Apple laptop battery life is no longer competetive. An IBM T40 can get 6 to 7 hours EASY with the wireless going.
So what advantages are left?
I'd appreciate _some_ numeric benchmarks from something like Quake3 or UT 2003.
-Erwos
Thanks to Mattman and Jason Walsh for the comments.
Like I said I am not religious about OSes but I prefer a *Nix of some type. I am a Unix sysadmin/Configuration Manager for goodness sakes. I am not a big Microsoft hater BTW and I actually like a few MS apps. But, I just despise Windows and win way of doing things. It is just a completely personal thing without going into any attacks on XP at all.
I honestly might have to give the Macs a serious look when I look for a new laptop.
To crussia: I have never known anyone who had to deal with Sony tech support except for one person 4 years ago who got a Vaio with one bad part out of the box and they replaced it right away. To bad about that. I heard my other guts-on choice Alienware sucks hard in terms of reliability. I loved this one Fujitsu I had shortly for work but most of the newer models work for shite with Linux I have heard. Maybe that is different now. Toshiba? Use to be the bomb back in the day but two years ago when I was looking I was not impressed by their offerings.
Like I said I have about had it up to my eyeballs with cheap PC hardware.
so, what you are saying is that IBM has some break through in Battery technology, or they have severely limited the WiFi, since all current WiFi tech sucks battery life like a traveler who just came out of the Sahara desert after 3 weeks with out water.
The one thing I noticed the other day was how chunky Compaq/HP, IBM and Toshiba laptops are in comparision to the PowerBook. At first I thought I was looking at the el-cheapo models, went further down the "display rack" and even their expensive laptops are clunky and chunky.
Could someone explain to me why PC laptops are so chunky? it looks as though there has been little progress since by father bought home a Compaq 286 laptop many years ago.
For people having issues with their Mac, Apple gives you a couple of CDs, one of them marked, Apple Hardware Test, run it. The whole point of it is to check whether there are any hardware issues. I bought an iMac many years ago and found that after 2 weeks the hard disk died. I certaintly didn't run to osnews.com and scream about how Mac's are crap, I simply ran the cd, found there was a problem, dropped it in and 3 days later I had a new hard disk installed.
For the fun of it I priced out a Sony GRT 250/270 against the Apple Powerbook 15" and the Sony was just $100 dollars less and did have a 1 inch advantage in terms of the screen size on the one priced.
That is not the huge price gap I have seen in the past honestly.
This is with both boxes getting 512MB on one SIM and a 80GB hard drive but not much else.
Yes, on the Sony 15" inch model the difference is a whooping $300 bucks. However, you don't get the Nvidia Geoforce with the 15" Sony so the 16" I thought was a much more accurate comparison in terms of real performance and specs.
Still not bad.
Now any advice on how to convince my wife we need a new computer?
tell her:
"look woman!! I am getting a new computer and there is nothing you can do about it!! got it!!"
then she will divorce you and you will be free to buy all teh computers you like :-)
The PC laptop/notebook/subnotebook has lead the industry in sleek designs for many years. There have been countless numbers of beautiful, thin, small PC notebooks.
Take a look at Dynamism for examples of the MANY cool PC notebooks that certainly are not chunky --
http://www.dynanism.com
Or a gander at the Thinkpad line, X series and T series.
http://www.thinkpad.com
Or the Sony VAIO® TR2A --
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/U...
Or the Sony VAIO® Z1 --
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/U...
With Intel Centrino and Mobile Athlon64 the PC is powering far ahead of Apple when it comes to power, functionality, and form factor.
When is Apple going to have a 64-bit laptop running a real 64-bit OS? It certainly won't be before there are AMD Athlon64-based PC notebooks running Windows XP AMD64 and Linux AMD64.
On October 24th, SuSE 9 will support AMD64. That makes it the first real 64-bit OS you can go into a store and buy. And of course the OS will be adapted for AMD64 laptops as they appear.
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5083858.html?tag=zdnnfd.main
And the Athlon64m hardware is already being reviewed in pre-production form:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/amd-athlon64-m/index.html
On the ergonomics front, Apple still doesn't have a two-button trackpad. Or any other option besides a trackpad. IBM, Dell, and Toshiba offer trackpad + eraser mouse.
How about removable bay devices? I don't think Apple has ever offered that, at least in a long time. Apple could be wise and learn that a modular bay battery would help them out a lot.
And we could also talk about tablets... which have existed for a long time in PC world, but never in Mac world. The latest Tablet PC's are selling better and offer interesting alternatives not available in Mac world.
I could go and on. PC laptops/notebooks are where it's at. The evolution is stunning, the prices are good, the variety of choice is delightful, and there is beauty in abundance.
Let us not look at the PC world with a biased against the PC eye.
Goldstein --
I think when it comes to laptops, probably Apple and Sony lead the pack in design. The Thinkpad is hardly a sexy product...but it does with-stand a good drop from the desk pretty well.
re: AMD64 notebooks -- not out yet..so can't comment on them.
re: Suse9 and 64 bits -- what will you do with a 64-bit OS? You seem to think it is the end-all of performance.. How will you personally use it? you probably won't... not under Linux at least. Oh -- you might play games.. That's a good use of 64-bit processing (NOT). It is far more important (to me at least) that the applications be 64 bit aware and not the complete OS.
re: ergonomics? and you mention the eraser-mouse in the same sentence? Jeez.. You know ergonomics like Gateway knows quality control. but -- not only does Apple not have a two button mouse pad, but they don't have a floppy either.. Neither the floppy nor the two button mouse or trackpad have been a barrier to Apples success.
Same holds true for removable bays. yes, Apple laptops don't have removable bays... so what? What are you going to put a removable bay? A floppy? nope.. don't need that anymore.. Another battery? nope..because once you yank the DVD drive for the battery, whats the point?
re: Tablets -- Tablets have yet to prove to be a selling commodity. PocketPC's and mobile devices are still outselling them by a landslide. The margin is even bigger outside the US. Tablets are overpriced laptops with touch sensitive screens.. The market has yet to be proven.
PC laptops are cheap however. No denying that.
Lets not look at the Mac laptop with a biased eye.
Whats with all the links in David Adams articles? Seems like he has some nasty adware in his computer.
Did you even look at the Dynanism site? It's full of sleek notebooks that are not made by Apple or Sony.
As of 2002, IBM had won over 950 awards Thinkpad, far more than Apple.
Apple may own the field when it comes to modernism/cubism, but not ergonomics for normal people.
As the utter dominance of the PC has shown, most people can use two button mice. And many people, especially those who grew up on IBM and Toshiba laptops, can use an eraser mouse as well.
There is a beautiful world outside the Apple Church.
It's a relatively new kind of advertising. Sponsors buy keywords, and if they appear in articles, they have the special double underline to signify that they are advertisements. It only appears to work in Internet Explorer for now, though (yay).
As of 2002, IBM had won over 950 awards Thinkpad, far more than Apple.
Winning awards in not necessarily indicative of a premium product; it is essentially just mental masturbation.
There is a beautiful world outside the Apple Church.
A very sad comment Goldstein; Do you think that your comments of pro PC laptop rhetoric well convince Apple users to use such PC products?
Will you try and convince a client to buy your product by cracking him in the jaw?
Are you aware that you can live in a world where people can use what they choose?
By your comments it sounds to me like you need to justify your own choice by posting vilifying Apple interpretations. Fear not little man, your choice- is just that
Could someone explain to me why PC laptops are so chunky? it looks as though there has been little progress since by father bought home a Compaq 286 laptop many years ago.
Because most companies don't have the "vision thing," and PC users are particularly price-conscious. However, I think the Thinkpads are sexy.
have a look at exposé for switching - not the same as virtual desktops, but does make them a little less necessary.
It seems to be the machine for me but I'll wait till the first reports of early buyers come in.
For once, it seems to be a fairly priced machine, meaning that the clever and imaginative design of the hardware and OS comes free !
So just a matter of time.
Also, my wife will love it no doubt, and that will help a lot !
I own a Thinkpad T30, and I must say that the apple is way better designed than the Thinkpad. My notebook doesn't have USB2, not firewire, and comes with windows XP, which is a really bad operating system. Yes I installed Linux to make it run something decent, yes I can upgrade to a A30/A40 and get firewire, but it adds in size and weight.
The best and most inventive Thinkpad was the T20 series, which was sleek and stylish for its time. The current Thinkpads, the latest one being the T40 aren't really that fancy anymore.
>>1) www.dynanism.com doesn't exist.
Just a typo. But he reffered to www.dinamism.com
Nope, doesn't exist either.
Well I had a look.
Apart from the Sharp (original and really innovative) and the panasonic (A Titanium clone) there is nothing so exiting in there.
By the way both are way more expensive than the Mac.
At least they run XP Pro...
>"4) Most people are still clueless about left and right >click. Talk to Joe or Jane moron and they'll tell you that >they know sweet f*ck all about computers and the less >buttons the better."
Ah ha! so its the elite super intellects that only use one mouse button..
>"They'll also tell you that they don't know about a company >called "Apple" and that they went with a PC because they >want to be compatible with what the rest of the world has, >aka, "we'll be loyal sheep to the flock" metality."
So wolves are better because they run the least compatible platforms...
So with this logic applied to espresso machines i should order the single button, 220 Volt model with a Swiss electrical plug for my House in America! So i can be a wolf too!
"Apple could be wise and learn that a modular bay battery would help them out a lot. "
They have one on the PowerBooks for the battery.
Why would you want to remove your Combo Drive or CDRW? For a floppy? Thats what USB keys and CDs are for. Whats your point?
" And we could also talk about tablets... which have existed for a long time in PC world, but never in Mac world. The latest Tablet PC's are selling better and offer interesting alternatives not available in Mac world. "
Well Apple did do handrwiting recognition in a consumer product before anyone else. Have you used these tablet PCs? The recognition is not that great to begin with.
"The evolution is stunning, the prices are good, the variety of choice is delightful, and there is beauty in abundance."
Stunning? Are you sure?
Got an IBM T40 (regular, not the T40p with extra battery).
Battery life is about 4 to 5h hours (depends on screen brightness, hd usage, cpu usage) with WIFI ON.
Did the test three or four times, 4 to 5h I tell you!
Most of the laptops on dynamism's websites are ultralights with 10-12 inch screens and not fully featured (no built in optical drive).
I am yet to find a PC laptop that is even half as beautifully designed as a Apple. I just moved from a Toshiba satelite to the 15inch AL Powerbook.
I have used a 2.0 p4 Ghz Dell inspiron 8500 with speedstep that thing was dog slow, heavy and clunky and not mention a apple design rip off. Also used The dell 600m and IBM R31. The IBM is built like tank, I would reccomend IBM for PC laptops, Toshiba has a problem with thier LCDs, they keep turning off every now and then FL inverter goes bad or needs to be cleaned.
I am using a trackpad after using that button based pointing device and I though I would hate the trackpad but I got used to it and don't notice a difference.
There is no need for a modular bay on the powerbook. Everything is built in or can be plugged in via firewire or USB. To use a second battery
Just close the lid the unit goes to sleep within 30 seconds you can remove the battery and put the new one (apple claims the unit will retain data for 3 minutes once the battery is removed), hot pluggable batteries!!!
Everyone who has looked at my powerbook has gone wow that is sleek. Many calimed they are getting an Apple next. The Aluminum finish is beautiful and durable. Most similar pc laptops are built with plastic and a little metal and cost about the same.
The first thing my colleague, who has a 600M, asked is "how do they manage to get that thing so light with everything built in". His dell has a smaller screen and is heavier.
The sharp has a 3D screen apart from that it is nothing exciting as far as laptops go. Desktop p4 chip with a battery life of 1.4 hours!!!! It costs $4000.
As I said many of the other models have 10 inch screens and cost $2400 +.
I really wish apple would put a bigger battery in the 17". I could care less about weight, it's not like doubling the battery size is going to effect its porability. As long as it's under 20 lbs it's easy to carry. The 17 inch has to have a lot of dead space inside. it's not like it has more stuff then the 15".
I think extra bays have some merrit. I would like to see them put 2 internal bays in there. Both are made for the batteries. You can have just the one battery, or you can pop in a second for more run time. Also that bay could be used for various expansion for later. One module I'd like to see for laptops is a LowJack module. Since there so easy to steal why not protect them. Saying that you can make up for features not buildt in by plugging something in doesn't cut it. Because soon as you have to plug something in and carry it around the point of a laptop becomes less. Sorta like saying it doesn't matter if a powerbook only has one mouse button cause you can plug one in. Well people don't want to have to have a seperate mouse.
On a side note I do like IBM laptops, they are very well built, though the styling can use a refresh. I do wish though apple would put in trackpoints in their laptops. The trackpoint is simple the best pointing method ever concived. Whereas the trackpad is the worst. If you don't like trackpoints you simple never tried them or gave them a shot. That is one of the single biggest reasons for buying an IBM.
I don't get the same fealing about the build of the apple laptops, To me they have a generic kid toy feel to me. They are just a simple box shape and the Al is rather plastic feeling. They have style via having non. i'ts a clean look, but nothing to set it off. I do like them though. In my time trying out a 17" powerbook it never gave me the feeling of being very solid. More the feeling of being some form of mockup. I'd like them to be of thicker metal to give it a more solid feel.
On a differant note the 17" is very nice, and has massively improved over previous mac laptops. The keyboard is great and just freaking awsome compaired to previous mac laptops.
When I priced the Dell mentioned in the article it came to $1,766 with the same amount of memory, graphics card, HD size etc. Maybe I've missed something.
Regardless, I don't recommend Dell laptops. A friend of mine has had to return his twice so far because the memory keeps failing. You would think that they might test for such things before shipping it out the first time, and the second....
Apple's laptop offerings are always looking more appealing to me. I almost picked up an iBook last month but I felt the FSB speeds were lacking, even on the PowerBooks. Someday....
I've tried them all and wouldn't go with anything other than an IBM T40p or X31 for a smaller form factor.
Also, the keyboards on the better IBMs are a thing of beauty (yes, even better than the new PB).
Can't beat the build quality, sleekness, speed (especially the T40p) and the price ain't bad for what you're getting.
Most people haven't ever touched the high-end IBMs, seeing as they're not really available in normal stores.
Dells are fragile as of late, chunky and don't cost that much less than a high-end IBM, so why go with them?
By the way, I did play with the 15" powerbook and, though sleek, it doesn't feel quite as substantial as some people here claim (plus, aluminum ain't all it's cracked up to be - and neither is titanium, it all depends on the alloy but it will get too metallurgically technical for most people if I go on). The latch by the way is pulled by a magnet and if you don't have it at the right angle it won't work.
Also, like Eugenia had said before, it still feels slow even for silly things like resizing a browser window. Hopefully 10.3 will fix all that. Or maybe not.
D
you use the same internet, can export docs to the same formats, and write the same CDs and make even MORE compatable DVD (due to the use of DVD-R) on an Apple as you can on a PC.
it plugs into the same wall plug.....uses the same HDD, CD-RWs, DVDs, and the same interface for GFX cards (only diffrence is the firm ware) ooo...look, I can plug it into my network and it works.....oh look, I can sit down at Starbucks and it connects to the wifi network!!! Oh look, I can listen to MP3s....oh, look, I can use all the web technologies....hey, I can compile my C++ programs for school...oh, theres fortran as well....hey!! even perl and python!!!
so, what exactly is not compatable about the mac?
"The trackpoint is simple the best pointing method ever concived. Whereas the trackpad is the worst. If you don't like trackpoints you simple never tried them or gave them a shot. That is one of the single biggest reasons for buying an IBM."
And yet most people's experience will prove the complete opposite. Ask yourself why IBM is the only major manufacturer of laptops still offering the nipple as standard. Even Toshiba, which was for a long time an avocate of the trackpoint, has gone over to the touchpad. The reason is simple. Customer demand. I have had to use Toshibas in the past with these rotten devices, and have always had to attach a mouse.
You can buy external trackballs for your PC desktop to use as a mouse. Ditto with touchpads. I have yet to see a trackpoint as a mouse option for desktops. Nobody wants them. IBM has started to offer some models of its laptops with dual trackpoint/touchpad options. Time is running out for the trackpoint, I fear.
With regard to Apple's insistence on the single mouse button, this is a problem that can be obviated with an improved mouse driver. I have a cheap generic PC laptop which was supplied with Windows 98 and a copy of Logitech's mouseman driver v2.5. Best touchpad I ever had. If you tapped the touchpad with one finger, it was a left click, with three fingers it was a right click, with two fingers it was a middle button click if you chose to use that option. Furthermore if you stroked the right side of the touchpad, it had the same effect as the scroll button on a mouse. Worked flawlessly and the finger trick took no time to adapt to. I never, ever touched the mouse buttons. This functionality broke when I upgraded to Windows 2000.
I cannot see why Apple could not incorporate this functionality into its mouse driver. It would shut up this perennial whinge about Apple notebooks, and would be a damn sight more useful than a backlit keyboard IMHO.
For all these excuses and price comparisions...there is one thing missing from x86 laptops, these powerbooks run OSX, not windows. That is one big advantage. Also being PPC, most viruses are specfic to x86 and will not render a mac useless.
You have a neutral platform (not like windows where it tries to suplant everything) where you can run UNIX apps alongside Photoshop, Dreamweaver, even run windows at the same time AND play some of the latest games around. Dual Boot and run linux without most problems like with x86 versions. Work on a windows network also.
Super Java support, infact every langauge is welcome practically and its all inside OSX...this can be a good reason to pay more for. I've not even mentioned its rock solid reliability and its good looks...until now.
I've had lot's of Dell laptops at the different plces I've worked. Cheap and plasticky is right. I've had quite a few of them die on me. If you want a PC I don't have an issue with Dell desktops but I really wouldn't reccomend their laptops. Toshiba is much sturdier and my current employer gave me a pretty nice Compaq. I would love to buy a 15" Powerbook to got with my Dual G5 but I can't think of what I would do with it since I have to use a PC laptop for work. Maybe I need to switch jobs...
"The latest Tablet PC's are selling better and offer interesting alternatives not available in Mac world."
Uh, no their not.
I think IBM held the patents on them for a long time. Also I do have a keyboard for a desktop with a trackpoint in it. It's great. From my experiance most people seam to want trackpoints, but simple can't get them with the laptops they want. Just because companies don't put something in there doesn't mean people don't want one. Tack 1 button mice and apples. I know people with dell laptops with trackpoints and thats a big reason they won't get rid of them, i belive dell doesn't currently offer a trackpoint.
"... these powerbooks run OSX, not windows. That is one big advantage."
Yes, a great advantage until you realise that all the software you already own and/or want to use is Windows-only.
Much of what you claim to be a Powerbook advantage isn't in fact specific to the Powerbook at all.
I particularly liked the "Works on a Windows network" point, in fact.
Next time, try not to listen to the fanboy inside you, okay?
Yes, a great advantage until you realise that all the software you already own and/or want to use is Windows-only.
Besides the software that came with the windows box my wife still uses occasionally, we don't own more than a few games. I have played them all through anyway. Most people don't tons of extra software. They use what they bought when they got the box or download for free. What do they do when they buy a new machine then and only then do most home users typically upgrade their Office apps and other programs.
Next time, try not to listen to the fanboy inside you, okay?
I don't think he is the only fanboy around here from your comment.
While I do agree that some have very specific software requirements that warrant the use of one particular OS, It really gets on my nerves when users with no such requirements use the flimsy reasoning "Oh but most of the software is windows only".
I just bought my first mac and I am surprised by the abundance of software available for it. I take my powerbook to work on a fully UNIX network to home and connect it to my windows box no problems. Mounting nfs shares no problem, mounting CIFS shares no problem. Ever tried to mount a nfs volume on your windows laptop without buying/installing additional software? you can't.
Powerbooks are great laptops. People who claim they don't feel substantial are mistaking it's sleek light weight to be weakness. The Aluminum alloy is pretty scratch resistant and solid I can't flex the laptop as I can with other plastic laptops. No squeaks or rattles or annoying leaf blower fan noises. I was in the library the othe day and the guy sitting on the table beside me had a Dell and man was it loud. I probably never noticed it before because my toshiba was loud as well.
I am surprised that I can actually hot swap the batteries.
don't be an ass, what i said is true, no fanboy here and please, tell me which apps you need on windows which cannot be found on OSX?
Also, what is not specfic to the powerbook? You mention this without giving an example.
the lid not closing properly is REALLY annoying. I had a toshiba that did the same and one of the reasons I upgraded was because the lid annoyed me so much.
Things didn't turn out quite as planned.
People are saying how good the T40p is and putting it up as one of the best Intel based options. Well I had a look on the Australian Web sites and here are our prices in our dollars.
T40p $4 999
1.6Ghz 512Meg Ram 40G Drive 14.1" display 64Meg FireGL
WiFi and BlueTooth ComboDrive 2.4Kg
15" PowerBook $4,799
1.25Ghz 512Meg Ram 60G Drive 15" display 64Meg Radeon WiFi and BlueTooth SuperDrive 2.5Kg + FireWire and DVI connections
The PowerBook looks pretty competitive.
Disclaimer: I do not own or have ever owned a PowerBook or other Apple computer. However I do desire one.
References:
http://commerce-29.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/ProductDisplay?prr...
http://store.apple.com/133-622/WebObjects/australiastore?family=PBA...
Since it came out the first Tibook, I always wanted one but I couldn't afford it cause I lost my job... This my Dream machine and one I will have it in my hand.
I have a 15" AlBook on order and it should be here in (groan) 15 days. I blew my budget going for the 1.25GHz model with 512Mb of RAM, expecting to upgrade after Christmas.
But now I'm hearing scary stuff about adding memory. On the iBook, it was pop the keyboard, unscrew the RAM shield and slide in a memory card.
Apparently the new PB isn't so straightforward. Has anyone actually done this to the AlBook? If so, how bad is it - and what tools will I need?
Many thanks.
Mike.
What's the deal with Virtual PC on these new AlBooks? Any one try it? I thought VPC needed an L3 cache to run the best, these machines just have L2.