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You know I really hate reviews that do not give specs on the type of machine used. Specs are needed IMHO to give a reader a picture of the type of machine or parts that might be needed.

Irrelevent to the review here.

Eugina, good review, might someday try it when linux systems in general approach osx seemlessness (which gnome 2.4 was pretty good last time I tried it).

Actually the review is not by Eugenia, it is by Will Senn

I love Libranet. Especially the Adminmenu. It truly makes Libranet stand out, as well as easy to use.

What you're paying for in Libranet (since it's based on Debian that is free) is easy installation, adminmenu, and support. I'm glad that reviewer mentions this support - Libranet people provide answers to users' questions. Strange, however, that they should say that there's no GUI frontend for setting mouse acceleration in IceWM. I abandoned IceWM when XFce4 was released, but I recall that there are several graphical frontends to configure most aspects of IceWM. You can also do (as root) 'apt-get install gxset' and this installs gtk frontend for xset.

Time to update my 2.8.0 . I just ordered Libranet 2.8.1, along with Quake 3 (the metal box edition).

For all those who want to try Debian on the desktop: give Libranet a shot, you will like it!

I love Libranet , and i using it with big pleaser.

What version of Gnome does the clasic(Free) edition come with?

If is 2.4 I'd like to give it a try.

I love xnews! I can't think of a better program for linux!
Is there a comparable news reader for linux?
All the ones I have tried just looked all blocky and not very nice looking!

I like PAN a lot, actually. Not especially pretty, but it's extremely functional.

Sure,

3 different boxes:
a. Test Box 1
Intel PIII 800 - D815EEA with integrated sound, nic
512 MB Ram
Viper V770 w/32 MB SDRAM
Memorex 52x CDRW
Cendyne 10x DVD
USB Plustek Scanner
USB Tripplite 1000 UPS
Logitech Trackball
MS Natural Keyboard

b. Test Box 2
Dell Precision Workstation 340, integrated Radeon VE video, sound, nic
Intel PIV 2 Ghz
1 GB Ram
HP CDRW
Logitech Trackball
MS Natural Pro Keyboard

c. Test Box 3
Compaq Presario 1250 Notebook
builtin sound, modem
Gigafast EE101-AEX PCMCIA nic
NeoMagic 800x600 laptop display

My preferred is a.

Thanks,

Will
196 MB Ram

Lots of people doesn't know that NVIDIA splash screen can be disabled.Deeeeeeeep inside the README file which comes withe the driver there is a section XF86config which has details about how to do it
I will paste the section regarding the splash screen

Option "NoLogo" "boolean"
Disable drawing of the NVIDIA logo splash screen at
X startup. Default: the logo is drawn.

The README file has other useful information.

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-4496/README.txt

>For all those who want to try Debian on the
>desktop: give Libranet a shot, you will like it!

Or just download Debian for free...

No troll intended.

Debian is indeed 'free', Libranet supplies Adminmenu and an easy install as well as a large number of latest release software, whereas Debian is arguably more difficult to install and comes with some dated software. I don't want to start a flame war or anything though Everyone rush out and grab Debian, use jigdo!

Will

It's because SuSE isn't free as in speech, either - witness YAST.

The question then becomes, why use SuSE when I can use Fedora or Debian, which are free as in beer and speech and just as good? There's not a whole lot of reason for people who care about freedom.

I don't like SuSE's proprietary tools and software because of the valid and legitamite "free"-ness issue. I'm vocal about it. I'm not unaware of that fact, either. I don't need your arrogant "Take close care of this phenomenon next time, you'll be surprised" as if I don't pay attention to what I post already. Not everyone is an ignorant moron.

So, get bent. And have a nice day.

-Erwos

Well.. actually I can't tell you why till I get to *really* understand the issue here. My question is: Why do you care about YAST not being free in the first place? Do you actually temper with sources and you have that deep, unfulfilled desire to tamper with YAST out of the gazillion lines of code that ship with SuSE? I don't code myself and I couldn't ever imagine a situation where it would bother me that YAST is not free and thus somehow hamper my usage of Linux. -- I mean, what scenario is it exactly that causes such an outrage? 99,9% of the readers here use Linux as-is and will never really come to even bother about whether or not YAST is free as in speech... So what is really important after all in my view is that I can pass on SuSE to whom ever I want without being haressed by the BSA or some such organization.

This is a review of Libranet, a debian based distro.
There is no need to start ranting and raving about Suse here.

"So what is really important after all in my view is that I can pass on SuSE to whom ever I want without being haressed by the BSA or some such organization."

Fair enough, but legally you can't do that, either. See the relevant section of the Yast license (http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/licenses/yast.html):

-----
3. Dissemination

It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SUSE LINUX AG or SUSE LINUX. Distribution of the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SUSE LINUX AG.

All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or works derived thereof available free of charge together with SUSE Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on the software are observed.
-----

Distribution for a fee is completely prohibited, and in addition, distribution free of charge is only allowed from FTP servers and mailboxes. So no, you can't give SuSE to your friends, only tell them how to download it for themselves. *Legally*, that is...

... identifying an issue can be quite an issue in it's own right, isn't it..?

My issue is not SuSE, my issue is why some people always jump on one distro but not on others for what is appearently the same behaviour when it comes to distribution. My guess is that people envy SuSE's success...

It's not the same if you get a US$70 product for free. You haven't ponied up your own cash, have you? Actually paying for a product seriously affects how closely you review it and will also turn your mind to what you got for your money that you wouldn't otherwise have got for free somewhere else.

It's easy for the reviewer to say the money is "worth it" when he got the product at no cost. He didn't have to choose between this product and another product or this product and say, shoes for the kids or groceries for the week.

OSNews is regularly reproached for the style of reviews on the site. I think Eugenia should seriously consider setting out some guidelines like these:
(1) reviewer got product for same price as regular person
(2) reviewer used product for at least six months (all the reviews otherwise end up being "how I installed")
(3) reviewer must *focus* on what is different about a product vs. what is the same ie. support, documentation, extra tools, etc. Similarities can be briefly summarized instead.
(4) reviewer must give longterm usability review of the product over a wide range of circumstances. so many people hop from distro to distro week after week these reviews become pointless.

This issue is being kicked around for a long time. The most respected german computer magazine C't did a pretty good once-over intro to current distros in their print edition recently and specifically pointed out once again that you *can* in fact copy the CDs around freely. For curiousity, I will contact SuSE directly now and will post the answer to the (official) forum here...

"The most respected german computer magazine C't did a pretty good once-over intro to current distros in their print edition recently and specifically pointed out once again that you *can* in fact copy the CDs around freely."

<shrug>

Whatever you say. Those willing to take the word of some unaffiliated German computer magazine over that of SuSE's own legal department are free to do so. However, the Yast license (http://www.suse.de/en/private/support/licenses/yast.html) speaks for itself.

i am sure it is a fine distro, but since they have no FREE downloads of the ISO i will never know, as i am not about to send them money for a Linux distro that is too similar to most other distros out there, in the end i get 99.99% the same things as i get in either Debian, Knoppix, Mandrake, Redhat, Slackware, or dozens of other distros out there that offer free ISOs to download, go to http://www.distrowatch.com/ and take your pick...

They have a 100% money back guarantee. If you don't like it, just ask for a refund.

"What version of Gnome does the clasic(Free) edition come with?

If is 2.4 I'd like to give it a try."

Hehe, hardly. It was released on the 9th of September 2002, while Gnome 2.4 was released on September the 11th of *this* year.

Many desktop users find the free 2.7 edition useful as a more user-friendly alternative to Debian's own installer (it features hardware detection, etc) after which they just dist-upgrade to the Debian branch of their choice, but that's about it.

> Many desktop users find the free 2.7 edition
> useful as a more user-friendly alternative
> to Debian's own installer (it features hardware
> detection, etc) after which they just dist-upgrade
> to the Debian branch of their choice, but that's
> about it.

So Libranet is infact more of a easy-to-use debian installer that is worth ~50$
Well... learning to use the debian installer seems to be a good investment ;-)

For the record,

I did not say that it was 'worth' it, I said - 'There is definite value to be had in a distribution that costs. Libranet adds value.' I stand by that statement. I have bought many of the distributions that I own and while the cost influenced the critical nature of my 'review' I like to think that I appreciated each distributions features for their usability much more than their relative cost. I paid nearly 2 times as much for my version of RedHat than I would have paid for Libranet, I was happy with the distribution. Also cost is relative, the $100 for Redhat was still a third the cost of windows. 70$ is a good deal for Libranet and I plan on buying it - precisely because of my review.

Cheapskate,

Not so, see tuxter's reply above. The 2.7 Classic Edition is downloadable at http://libranet.com/download.html

Will

because libranet uses alot of stuff from the testing and unstable, it means installing from third party sources (like KDE3.1.4) is impossible.
so libranet doesn't let users see the true goodness of the apt system.

unfortunately there is no easy way to set up a proper desktop system with debian stable. i'd advise people to either use redhat, mandrake or suse, be prepared for alot of headaches and install woody or wait for a year or so and install sarge.

Whoa.
Sit UBU sit.

Good dog.

Jim

Libraet 2.8 onwards is superb - brilliant review btw
I've tried dozens of distros in the quest for the 'perfect Linux' Libranet, bar a few minor niggles is that distro

Anyone thinking of trying pre - 2.8 versions though better beware. Everything that is right about 2.8+ is missing in earlier versions. 2.7 is a shambles, hardly picks up any hardware, looks terrible and is a pain generally.

I love the iceWM default desktop, which comes with handily placed configuration tools - very handy if you like your menus to scroll :o) I'm running an AMD 2600 with 512MB DDR, so I don't exactly need to use iceWM, but I love it's clean simple looks and functionality and the way the Libranet team have tweaked it, is much better than any other distro

As it said in another revue I read - it's Debian that just works. Couldn't agree more

An added bonus for me was the included Netscape 4.7
I can now play my favourite M$ java flavoured online game in Linux :o))

While your sentiment regarding reviewers who get free product, it is valuable for it to have been disclosed. IMHO, it shows class on the part of the reviewer to have disclosed that he received the product for free.

Now, in terms of waiting six months to publish a review ... uhm ... there will have been dozens of releases of major applications since the time of the release and then people will complain that the review is not up to date. I'll have to disagree on people waiting.

Libranet 2.8.1 may indeed be a very good distro, but who exactly is willing to pay around $70 for the privilege. It offers little or nothing more than other Debian based distros such as Knoppix or Mepis. Both are "no-brainers" to install, both offer similar packages / applications, and more importantly both of these distros are absolutely ..... FREE! So I guess the 70 bucks must be for technical support, well if I need technical support using either of the mentioned distros all I need do is post a question on their user forums, and in the case of Mepis the question will usually be answered by the guy who developed the program. I'm sure Libranet is a fine program but I fail to see the attraction given the cost.

Libranet 2.8.1 may indeed be a very good distro, but who exactly is willing to pay around $70 for the privilege.

For existing users Libranet is $49.95 (CD-ROM) or $44.95. A good price compared to other distros.

It offers little or nothing more than other Debian based distros such as Knoppix or Mepis.

How do you know? The installation is better, Admintool is very nice, the support is great, the selection of packages is good.

You know, there are still people in this world that need to eat food to stay alive. Maybe that differs in your situation...

Most Libranet users don't mind to pay the developers for a good product.

Test post ignore.

It is because I need to eat food that I choose not to use your distro, and why so sensitive, I'm sure there are many who are willing to pay for your work, .... sorry but I'm not.

[quote]
It is because I need to eat food that I choose not to use your distro, and why so sensitive, I'm sure there are many who are willing to pay for your work, .... sorry but I'm not.
[/quote]

It is a matter of taste. I like Libranet, that's why I bought it (2.8.0 and 2.8.1). Nobody condems you for choosing something else.

Except for using Libranet I have no affiliations with them .

If there is no way to setup a proper desktop with debain unstable, why am I running nearly Gnome-2.4 from unstable with XFree86-4.3.0?

I've tried 3rd party debs, and it nearly always ended up trying to remove half my apps, so I stick with unstable, and use woody as my base (i.e networking, NIS, NFS etc...), whilst all my desktop is running unstable.

yes I agree it can be hard to get a perfectly working unstable desktop, it took me around a week, but it's worth it, using discover, and cloop, I can make a compressed image of my system, and extract it onto most other computers and watch discover autodetect all the hardware, and using dcc in the XFree86Config-4 file, give me auto probing on monitor resolution (should they allow it).

Yes you can break things running unstable, recently I updated parts of gnome, it broke gnome-terminal, the following day, I updated gnome-terminal and working again.

And it rock solid, alot more stablier than redhat 9,but If you want an easy path then I would recommend Libranet any day.

I've been using debian now for around 7 months and would never go back to anything else, and yes I have purchased woody on DVD, as well..

Mark

I just purchased the 2.8.1 product. Eagerly awaiting its arrival.

It offers little or nothing more than other Debian based distros such as Knoppix or Mepis. Both are "no-brainers" to install, both offer similar packages / applications, and more importantly both of these distros are absolutely ..... FREE!

I have done the hard drive install of Knoppix 3.2 and despite taking the advertised precautions, I still get the odd menu showing up in German. No package selection ended up being something that I cared about. I realize I could "de-install" packages using aptitude or apt-get or some such, but I prefer to build up, rather than whittle down. The windows shell-shock about orphaned stuff being left behind is hard to shake.

So I guess the 70 bucks must be for technical support

Sadly (believe me, it tears me up :^) ), I don't have a broadband connection to download isos or packages at will. An apt-get dist-upgrade on my Knoppix install would have taken 36 hours :O so there is something to be said for the packages being on CD. Tech-support is nice (I'm not exactly a newbie, but godhood is a ways off). Some of the value-added pieces look promising.

I'm sure Libranet is a fine program but I fail to see the attraction given the cost.

Fair enough.

Hey why are these people so angy, and what has Suse to to do with Libranet. A part from the fact that they are both Linux
Cool it chaps! its only A Os it's not a life or death matter

OK, so I have laid donw the whole situation again to the publisher and I they have re-assured that you can in fact copy the CDs of SuSE as long as it is for free as in beer. In fact, upon having re-read the terms you copy/pasted, there ins't anything contradicting in there. After all, if such a vocal magazine was to falsely advocate the possibility to copy the CDs over years, you would have heared a word from SuSE about that. The only sources who keep claiming the opposite are legal laymen like you.

So, feel free to copy them.

Naturally, you are expected to learn to speak German before you attempt to install Knoppix. No, seriously... to change the language in menus try this:

Click on the KDE Control Centre icon on the taskbar at the bottom of the screen (icon of a colour monitor with a card in front of it).
Within the Control Center, click on Personliche Einstellungen.
Click on Land und Sprache. Choose the locale and language of your choice.
Click on Andwenden at bottom of that window.
Close and restart the Control Center.
Click on Peripherals, then Keyboard, and choose your preferred keyboard layout (which will probably be U.S. English). Click OK and close the window.
(You may also right click on the german flag next to the time on the taskbar and select the bottom option with ...)
You may also need to logout and log back in for the changes to take place.

And while you are waiting for your purchased Libranet CDs, you may like to browse Knoppix user forums:

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/

People there are happy to help you. :^)

I am a Debian fan with lots of insight on "The Debian Way." Libranet makes Debian a joy to use *and to administrate* for novice and advanced users. It is worth the money IMO. If you do try it and don't like it (as some have), you can request a full refund. That removes the financial risks enormously.

Compare to SUSE? Get out of here already!

Hardware detection is the best of the bunch. I have tried all the major and many of the minor Gnu/Linux distributions. Libranet shines with it's detection routines. Libranet hackers also have this fantastic habit of *listening to their beta testers* prior to release.

Did you forget that you get Java, Flash, Realplayer, free and M$ fonts, updates, auto loggin to favorite desktop (if you wish), all with a click of a mouse. I'm only naming a few of the wiz-bang-neato-features that come with Libranet's latest.

What you don't get is easy tracking of Debian's UNSTABLE tree. Users who are not prepared to get into the guts of the system should avoid attempting to track UNSTABLE and stick with Libranet's own released software packages.

Core support from Libranet *and* Libranet's forum of users. Some really odd issues do arise and it is nice to know you are in good company that is willing to help you hurdle the problems that might come up.

Opportunity: Hmmm, I better keep this secret since I want to make money too!

Debian *is* freely available via the net. Get it if you have time to tweak/repair/setup/tweak/tweak, but for those of us that *have a life worth living*, we are happy to pay for the freedom of choice!

As always, wishing you all well.

In response to:
Did you forget that you get Java, Flash, Realplayer, free and M$ fonts, updates, auto loggin to favorite desktop (if you wish), all with a click of a mouse.

Nope, but I didn't have room on 2 pages to include ALL of the features (smile)...

To all the doubters and scoffers:
Try it you'll like it.
It comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.

Thanks, Nob. I'll take a look.

I recommend Knoppix to friends who want to give Linux a whirl. I still think that for the level of skill I'm at and some of the features I'd like to have and the position I'm currently in and the fact that I want to support this company, and so on, and so on, Libranet's a good fit for me.

'Course, I still have to get the silly thing installed, eh? :^)

Anticipating much joy!

Bob

I try them all if I can get them. I started out buying packages. I then started downloading them plus I bought a few discount cds. Libranet 2.0 was a blast but not a keeper. Libranet 2.7 was a bust. It didnt install. I have over 30 cds of linux distros. The only one that I continually returned to, is Slackware 8.1. Slackware 9.0, 9.1 are great packages except for the schizoid fonts. Knoppix also has the lousy fonts. (perhaps I don't know how to handle them, but is it GTK on Kde that screws it up?) Anyway Slack 8.1 rocks. But my recommendation to any newbie is try KNOPPIX 3.3 cd, and when ready, install it to harddrive. It gives many of the advantages of Libranet with less hassle and less expense. You find out immediately if you have hardware issues. It doesnt take an hour... But $70 for Libranet that I probably wouldnt stay with, is not value for me. If I stayed with it, It might be. I do not resent the price, I mean ya gotta make a living. But ifn I don't keep it, (experience sez I wouldn't), It's too high to only just try.