Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sun 13th Jan 2002 17:34 UTC
Zeta A German-based organization, called YellowTAB, sent out a press release stating they will be releasing an updated version of BeOS 5 Pro, under the name "BeOS NG". The group was closely working with KochMedia (the German/UK publisher of BeOS) and Be, but when Be started talking to Palm about their take over, they stopped being so cooperative. The new BeOS version will include lots of software (software that can also be found at BeBits) and it will be based on a plain BeOS 5 Pro, plus some patches and a brand new Installer. Unfortunately, their version will not be based on BeOS 6, a version that OSNews learnt and confirmed, is extremely updated (more drivers, new Interface Kit/App_Server, double buffering etc). Frank Paul Silye, part of the YellowTab group, answers some of the questions we had regarding the product.
Order by: Score:
Woah.
by bullitB on Sun 13th Jan 2002 17:46 UTC

Two thoughts:
1) eComStation?
2) BeUnited?

by Androo on Sun 13th Jan 2002 17:47 UTC

Oh my GOD this is great news!!! I can't say much more, as I think I need to grab the defibrillators and jumpstart my heart.

by Konrad on Sun 13th Jan 2002 17:55 UTC

My suggestion to the yellowtab team:
Send out a Beta of "BeOS NG" to ComputerMagazines and let them test them also, if they publish the article then you got nice PR. Give them a lot of information, like whats the opentracker, etc.

Thanks for doing this!
/Konrad

Repackaged, but not new
by Jace on Sun 13th Jan 2002 18:04 UTC

I wish them luck, but this just appears to be a repackaging of the stuff we already have in the BeOS community. If they manage to integrate updates such as the IDE replacement, that will certainly help some folks who were previously unable to install on ATA100 systems, but I see no reason for a user like me to get this (all my hardware works). Will there be any compelling reasons for me to get this?

Just what I was waiting for
by Qoumran on Sun 13th Jan 2002 18:40 UTC

The recent articles on BeOS and the Ars Technica article on meta data in filesystems really got me hooked on BeOS, but its uncertain (smelling dead) future has keeping me back. This pressrelease is great news for me since it appears to give BeOS some kind of future. I just hope they will be able to move past R5 and get some collaboration running with Palm.
Good luck to yellowTab

Woohooo! Questions? Questions? Questions?
by yc on Sun 13th Jan 2002 18:53 UTC

They're talking with Palm and releasing an updated R5. Logic dictates that BeOS is alive and well and with a very bright future! It looks like they may keep the cool BeOS name too ;)

Questions...

1. Will the YellowTAB NG product Be available in the States?
2. If so will Gobe distribute YellowTAB's product? (With Productive 3? Bezilla?)
3. Are the other similar BeOS licencees? Gobe? BeUnited?
4. Is this enough to entice Gobe to finalize GP3 for BeOS?
5. What about Adamation? Can YellowTAB work with them to get personalStudio back out?
6. Will there Be BeOS announcements from Palm at PalmSource next month?

In any case, this is good news. Long Live BeOS!

ciao
yc

by Brad on Sun 13th Jan 2002 19:11 UTC

BeOS a bit more life on hardware. I get the impression they got the drivers and such from Be, nice tThis is good news, I like how the new drivers and CPU support will be in it. This will give o see that something that people may have never got a chance to have, have been released to someone. I just don't want to see this become a big let down. As in they flop or the BeOS NG is nothing more than some more apps and 3 drivers. Its good to hear they seam to have steady communication with palm. I would not be worried if some people have had little communication with palm. It's better in this case to have one company/group have real good communication than a couple with a little bit of communication. On a side note, I like the name of the company and OS, I saw thing on this yesterday and before i clicked the url, I knew it had to be something BeOS, this is a good sign for product recognition. Former BeOS users will catch the name real quick.

by Brad on Sun 13th Jan 2002 19:13 UTC

Damn, that got cut off, last time i use a editor to spell check a post and paste it in.

BeOS's future !@#$%^&*?
by CattBeMac on Sun 13th Jan 2002 19:15 UTC

So what is going to happen to BeUnited's campaign and what about OpenBeOS? I am really confused, but happy that there is an initiative ti keep BeOS alive no matter who is on the bandwagon.

Jace what is the latest from BeUnited?

This would be great...
by j on Sun 13th Jan 2002 20:37 UTC

This would be great if they could get the actual code and enhance that too. But if they don't have the code, it is just going to get more and more out of date every year...

great!
by Kevin on Sun 13th Jan 2002 20:38 UTC

Great! Thanks for getting this info Eugenia!

Btw, i'm willing to beta test the yellow Tab Version of BeOS ;)

This is really big news!
by bbjimmy on Sun 13th Jan 2002 20:54 UTC

I just hope that the relation with Palm develops to the point that they can progress BeOS beyond R5.3!

bbjimmy

host of http://forums.delphiforums.com/T_P_T_B/start The place to B forum on Delphi

Good old Bernd, knew he would come up with the goods.
by Nicholas Blachford on Sun 13th Jan 2002 21:31 UTC

If you've been at recent BeGisterts you (like me) might have been waiting for some interesting news like this. I am glad to see Bernd has not dissapointed us!

Though if there are going to be patches (Athlon XP et al) shouldn't it really be called BeOS R5.04?

And this is probably just the beginning :-)



Wouldn't it be ironic though if they managed to get a new version of BeOS out and it didn't feature yello tabs...

this is cool but.....
by Mike on Sun 13th Jan 2002 22:12 UTC

why can't palm just GPL all the Be code and make everyone happy? if they threw in some dev tools for writing palm programs it would even help palm!

Easy there big fella
by johnG on Sun 13th Jan 2002 22:18 UTC

Umm... not sure why folks are so excited about this. They're simply distributing BeOS R5 Personal Edition with a few extra apps (and perhaps drivers) thrown in -- stuff we could already get at various FreeBe mirrors and from BeBits.

Just to be realistic, it wouldn't be a surprise if Palm shuts them down before they even start distributing.

Sorry, but I used up all my blind optimism on hoping BeInc's focus shift wouldn't kill BeOS.

Effect on OpenBeOS? Perhaps YellowTAB will end up being a distributor of OBOS. Maybe YellowTAB will team up with BeUnited somehow. Maybe if the YellowTAB distro gets out the door it will generate more interest among folks who've never heard of BeOS and then *that* could ricochet back to Palm -- maybe generating more interest in BeOS at Palm. Too many maybe's here tho. ;)

Calling all BeOS developers (Old and New)
by yc on Sun 13th Jan 2002 22:29 UTC

Calling...

Gobe,
Adamation,
Lost Marbles,
IK Multimedia,
BeatWare,
Opera,
BeUnited,
Maxon Computer,
Steinberg,
Netscape,
Next Generation Entertainment (NGE),
Wild Card Design,
Real Networks,
All shareware and freeware developers...

Dust off your Be devevelopment tools and get cranking on those apps!

Somebody please wake up Adobe, Microsoft, Quark, MacroMedia, Borland, MetroWerks, Symantec and others and get them with the program...

Let's Go Go Go... ;)

ciao
yc

Just: YEEEEEEEEEESSSSS SIR!!!!!!!!
by Jero on Sun 13th Jan 2002 22:31 UTC

EEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

calm down ....
by pekr on Sun 13th Jan 2002 22:37 UTC

Too much emotions here, better calm down, untill everything is really set in stone. I should know, I enjoyed the same kind of enthusiasm, regarding Amiga, since 1994 Commodore demise. From what I've read so far - nothing seems to be confirmed from the Palm = IP owner point of view ...

Of course I wish you well ...

-pekr-

about aims ...
by Binoi on Sun 13th Jan 2002 23:02 UTC

Hi folks ;)

I don' suppose much from the technical side today (but maybe tomorrow) BUT it seems that they could catch alot new users if they managed all the installation issues that caused possible neBEs in the past to join us. In my opinion BeOS 5.03 has already alot of potential if you understand to sell it to the people. Let's hope that they make it this way and sell their X Thousand copies!

Think alternative ... Be smart!
Binoi

about aims ...
by Binoi on Sun 13th Jan 2002 23:05 UTC

hm ... my first sentence was a bit confusing - But you understand what I tried to say (istallation that caused newBEs NOT to join us)
Bye

Re: this is cool but.....
by Dutch Cap on Sun 13th Jan 2002 23:16 UTC

"why can't palm just GPL all the Be code and make everyone happy? if they threw in some dev tools for writing palm programs it would even help palm!"

I am getting kind of tired of this question. Ok, one last time, all open-source zealots please pay attention. You might want to write this down so you don't forget it:

BeOS can *not* be open-sourced because there is a lot of licensed code in there that was not owned by Be and is not owned by Palm. I believe the boot-loader and the font-rendering engine for example were licensed from other companies. Removing all this licensed code would:

A) Be lots and lots of work
B) Leave a non-functional system

Now repeat after me:
BeOS will never be open-sourced
BeOS will never be open-sourced
BeOS will never be open-sourced...

Re: Re: this is cool but.....
by j on Sun 13th Jan 2002 23:19 UTC

Hm... it'd be great if they could get around that some way, possibly distributing those two components as a precompiled object so that the rest of the OS could be advanced??

by KAMiKAZOW on Sun 13th Jan 2002 23:43 UTC

"We're working on an improved Tracker with a new design and with lots of other new features. We also have a nice Multilanguage kit for it, withour own made library"

Their own library? Why not LocaleTracker? SpLocale has been open-sourced. I think the original license of SpLocale doesn't matter anymore.

No if or but, this is very cool...
by yc on Mon 14th Jan 2002 00:02 UTC

"why can't palm just GPL all the Be code and make everyone happy?"

Why spend money to make your competitors happy?
Palm is a publicly traded company, in business for profit and the OS is a major part of their bread and butter...

I *think* the boot loader belongs to Be/Palm. The font engine is licensed from BitStream Inc. (http://www.bitstream.com/)

ciao
yc

by Joe Petrus on Mon 14th Jan 2002 00:37 UTC

I don't suppose they'd have changed anything that would allow this to work in vmware or any of those programs?

Re: Joe Petrus
by Eugenia on Mon 14th Jan 2002 00:50 UTC

>I don't suppose they'd have changed anything that would allow this to work in vmware or any of those programs? <P> YellowTAB does not have the source code of BeOS, therefore, they cannot change anything. The bugs and limitations of BeOS 5, will still be there. <P> BeOS does not work on VMWare 1 & 2 at all, and it has *severe* problems on VMWare 3 because of <A HREF="phorum/read.php?f=8&i=255&t=255">this and <A HREF="comment.php?news_id=87">this. <BR> BeOS does not work on BOCHS because BeOS needs a Pentium to work and Bochs does not emulate the Pentium architecture properly yet. <BR> BeOS also does not work on VirtualPC for unknown reasons. Connectix never tried to support/test BeOS anyway.

by h_ank on Mon 14th Jan 2002 01:29 UTC

Shouldn't we be petitioning Palm to release r6? If it's out there and it's ready to, what would it take to get it into my hands?

Wow.
by Jake on Mon 14th Jan 2002 01:47 UTC

Surely an icicle just formed in Hell.

A reason for optimism
by david on Mon 14th Jan 2002 02:16 UTC

I finally tried BeOS a couple of weeks ago, was hooked immediately and have since set up a good little Be boxen at home.

Frankly at this point in time if someone can continue to sell what already out there in a nice convenient working package, then there will always be a hope that Be can stay alive.

Sign me up for a copy of the distribution NOW.

david

R6?
by yc on Mon 14th Jan 2002 02:30 UTC

>>Shouldn't we be petitioning Palm to release r6?

I don't think yelloTAB would Be investing resources in an R5 update if Palm was gonna kill the x86 desktop.

I think Palm will release R6 as a development platform for ARM base Palm OS first. A general purpose desktop R6 will probably come later. R6 will probably need a lot of work to really Be competitive and ready for a general release by Palm's standards.

They would need drivers support from 3/4 or more of the PC device manufacturers out there plus strong support from major application developers. All that can be worked on with a development platform release of the OS.

Let's hear what Palm has to say at the PalmSource developer conference next month.
http://www.palmsource.com/devconf.html

ciao
yc

RE:BeOS & GPL liscensing
by Chris Capoccia on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:15 UTC

Dutch Cap: "BeOS can *not* be open-sourced because there is a lot of liscensed code..."<BR>
<BR>
Just because software contains liscensed code does not necessarily mean that it cannot be developed further under an open-source liscense. If you are not convinced, look closely at the mozilla project. Netscape was closed source and contained a lot of liscensed code. It is a lot of work, but all the holes that are left by liscensed code can be filled with replacement code.

a Model PC?!
by CattBeMac on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:32 UTC

All YellowTAB and/or OBOS would need is a 'model PC' to set a standard and then work from there. I think working closely with Frizbe Computers would be the best solution since Scott Bates is a hardcore BeOS user/developer/evangelist and has dedicated alot of work so far into BeOS's future with LeBuzz and BeOS Radio! At least you would have a 'PC' foundation to start building on!

Re: Eugenia's comment
by Kristan Slack on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:33 UTC

>YellowTAB does not have the source code of BeOS, therefore, they cannot change >anything. The bugs and limitations of BeOS 5, will still be there.

Eugenia,

Given the situation then, how can they make it so that the AMD bugs are gone? And would this mean that my silly double-speed clock problem would be fixed?

regards,

Kristan

Re: Eugenia's comment
by Eugenia on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:40 UTC

> how can they make it so that the AMD bugs are gone?

There are already patches for the Pentium4 and AthlonXP BeOS bugs found in a russian web site, I think developed by a russian 'hacker'/coder. They just use these patches, one would assume.
Be has not given YellowTAB the BeOS source code, therefore, additional bugs found on drivers etc, will not get fixed. Except if that russian hacker continues to do wonders and start working for YellowTAB. Dunno.

Open source people
by Brad on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:51 UTC

The "open source it" cries are getting old. I would rather see BeOS be dead forever then have it GPL'd (or any open source license) with key stuff ripped out and needing to be filled. Currently BeOS is/was a great OS. I don't want to see its' name become know for being some project working on a barly working OS that never will get up and running and is full of bugs and problems and never works as good as the original. I want to see BeOS live. But I want to see it be its' true self. With a company keaping its' developement together. If yellowTab or someone else gets the code they can build on what is there istead of playing years/decades of catch up replacing before even being able to improve and move the OS forwards. It took 50-100 engineers 10 years to get to 5.03 getting it back to were it is depending on how much proprietary code is in it could take a very long time. And those parts very likely are something that would be hard/impossable to replace. If they could been done in house easily by Be they probly would have. Or just plain might be a technology owned by a company and there is no way anyone could legaly make it over. It's up to Palm now, they own it and can do what they wish and for anyone to say "they should do this or that" is just dumb, they will do what they want to do. Most likely it will be a money matter. We all can hope someone like YellowTab gets the code or license to it. But if Palm decides not to we will have to live with that. Badgering a company will get you nowhere. I think in time BeOS will re-appear. If one really really wants the code I'm sure if you wrote Palm a check for 20million (so they make a profit) they would sell it to you. After that you can go ahead and strip out the proprietary stuff and give it away for free. You would be out 20 million bucks but hey it's opensource and thats what matters right, no more evil closed source. Any takers?

Browser woes...
by Adam Scheinberg on Mon 14th Jan 2002 03:57 UTC

Until BeOS - even BeOS NG - has a current browser, it will never be my sole desktop system. Even in its heyday for me, it still was secondary. Let's face it - lots of the BeOS users community are coders and programmers. How can I test my website on a platform that can barely render the CSS correctly? That can't run https properly? That throws javascript errors?

I love the BeOS, don't get my wrong, and I will do every possible thing in my power to help yellowTAB and BeUnited and OpenBeOS succeed if called upon, but my #1 hope is that someone can get a browser that functions stable on the platform.

My hopes rest on BeZilla!

RE: Browser woes...
by CattBeMac on Mon 14th Jan 2002 04:22 UTC

Here is the thing I'd like to know? Who in the helk built Net+? And why has further development ceased on it. Most BeOS users know that Net+ was a darn good/fast Browser (well except no Java/Flash support), but what a waste of good code. I gave a demonstration to a friend on mine on Net+ and he was speechless. He said there was a certain website that he visited quite often that rendered in IE/Netscape pretty slowly, so we gave it a test and sure enough- wam, bam, thank you mam the page was up without a hitch and he was in awe! Though I liked Opera on BeOS, it was buggy and unreliable at times! I do hope BeZilla does get better, because Adam is right, no browser... no success for BeOS!!

by stew on Mon 14th Jan 2002 04:54 UTC

Hm...is that basically a R5 Pro with some BeBits apps and a new installer or is there something in it that I would want?

net+
by Brad on Mon 14th Jan 2002 05:24 UTC

Cattbemac,


Be wrote netpositive, and I belive they said they were not going to continue it in later BeOS releases, so even if Be was still going Net+ was/is dead. ;) it was a damn nice browser.

NetPositive
by yc on Mon 14th Jan 2002 05:39 UTC

>> Be wrote netpositive, and I belive they said they were not going to continue it in later BeOS releases.

Well, Be did not write Net+ from scratch. They bought it at an early stage and developed it. I don't recall Be saying that they would not develop Net+ further. It was not used in BeIA because it was not compliant enough and could not Be made compliant quickly enough.

I think it's wise for an OS vendor to have their own browser. I think Be/Palm *will* develop Net+ further. They appear to have a fine beginning.

ciao
yc

by stew on Mon 14th Jan 2002 07:07 UTC

Talking to an Ex Be Engineer, I got the impression as they had completely given up on Net+ due to the fact that it was seriously buggy. Though I hardly had problems with it, I was told that it was not 100% threadsafe, had a huge mem and CPU overhead for rather simple operations and was likely to lock sometimes.

by Androo on Mon 14th Jan 2002 07:17 UTC

Net+ was wonderful for quite a few years, then one day most websites started using Flash and Javascript and CSS and [insert W3C spec here]. And yeah, I heard the same schpeal as stew here ... Net+ had its share of problems even though it wasn't obvious.

What we need is a port of KHTML ........ anyone up for it? Kurt has already done a rough port for AtheOS ;)

fix for Athlon XP ???!!!
by Cycojesus on Mon 14th Jan 2002 08:57 UTC

Three weeks ago I bought an Athlon XP and... it's damn fast but... BeOS don't boot anymore, even the install...

And here I hear about a fix about that !!! where ???

Second question : will that NG stuff be available for download as an update ?

I wish that the BeOS community would get behind one project instead of fragmenting like it has so that man power can be channeled into making BeOS current and alive. The news of Yellow Tab is great and with decent effort in arresting the bugs of BeOS 5.03 and adding of drivers that allow for the use of current hardware, this is a great thing.

Instead of focus though we have many splinter projects with all their ideas as to keeping BeOS alive. Man, a lot of people point out that Be Inc had 50 - 100 engineers working on BeOS, well, I say we could have the equivalent of that if the community focused on a single project and got down and dirty with it. I mainly run Win2K and Debian Linux but only for a few reasons

1. Open Office
2. Support for my Hoontech DSP24 C-Port sound Card
3. Win for Reason which is a kick ass piece of software

I know that this could be easily rectified in developer land if people focused. To be honest nothing in Windows and Linux has come close to the capabilities of BeOS for me. They both suck although if I was wanting to build a server then Linux would be fine.

I want to be able to do stuff in BeOS but as a user I will have to be content of bitting my toung and waiting for something to happen in computer land that gives me that BeOS feel with uusable apps. I hope I don't have to wait ten years for this to happen because to be sooo close with BeOS, makes me cry.

Re: Athlon XP
by egilDOTnet on Mon 14th Jan 2002 09:33 UTC
by expensivelesbian on Mon 14th Jan 2002 09:56 UTC

piers,

i'm guessing you mean reason, the musc software? if so, i'm with you, that's why i got interested in the BeOS, because steinberg were developing for them and i was getting (still am) brassed off with windows. if these yellowtab folks get the major players in pro music software then i'm giving them my money.

way to go.

yeehaw

Yellow Tab looks like a fake!
by bbjimmy on Mon 14th Jan 2002 10:46 UTC

The more I look at the Yellow Tab site, the more it looks like a bad joke. The whole site is only three pages and none of them have contact or company information with the exception of one email address. If this were a real company, the press release would have at least been looked at by an editor. This does not seen ro be the case.

bbjimmy

http://forums.delphiforums.com/T_P_T_B/start

by dave_sn on Mon 14th Jan 2002 11:55 UTC

I tend to agree with bbjimmy.No company profile, no exact place, nothing

by KAMiKAZOW on Mon 14th Jan 2002 12:03 UTC

> The whole site is only three pages and none of them have contact or
> company information with the exception of one email address.

The CEO is Bernd Torsten Korz. It's the same guy who does InsideBeOS (http://www.insidebeos.de/english/contact.html).
Man, this IS serious!

by Anonymous on Mon 14th Jan 2002 12:16 UTC

I *think* the boot loader belongs to Be/Palm
I thought it was Intels?

by lightsaber on Mon 14th Jan 2002 12:42 UTC

this isn't a fake afaik. but it's headed by the same incompetent guy that publishes the wannabe magazine insideBeOS. lots of good will but no talent.
will it be the same with yellowtab? there's no info on the company and their future plan after selling a repackaged R5. how many employees are there? How many coders? even _should_ they get a code license from Palm (I doubt that), have they the resources to carry on development?

nice gesture, but I still count on OpenBeOS to secure our OS future.
WRT fragmenting efforts in saving the BeOS: i only see OpenBeOS and BlueOS. those are the only ones coding stuff. and that's what counts!

Web Site
by yc on Mon 14th Jan 2002 13:37 UTC

I must agree, the website looks very weak and the press release could Be sharper.

The fact that they are talking with Palm and plan to release an R5 Update tells me that general release of R6 will probably not com in the next few months but will probably come sometimes later.

ciao
yc

by Androo on Mon 14th Jan 2002 15:01 UTC

I have a question:
When Palm bought Be's intellectual properties, did they also buy the Be, Inc. name?

by Brad on Mon 14th Jan 2002 15:24 UTC

Androo,

I think they got the names BeOS and BeIA since they were a property Be owned and they sold that. I don't think they got Be cause the did not buy Be they bought Be's IP . Be is still around and currently liquidating their assests. This is my understanding I could be wrong. Be is still around in a very weak form and soon will be no more after all the liqudating and such is done. Go to www.be.com The main page pretty much spells out whats left of them and their future.

by KAMiKAZOW on Mon 14th Jan 2002 15:25 UTC

I don't think so. I believe Be, Inc is still "indypendent" (not really, but officially).

lightsaber
by Mark on Mon 14th Jan 2002 18:15 UTC

Hey lightsaber, calling someone incompetent is a serious accusation.
Care to back that up ?
What I know from Bernd is that he has done an excellent job with InsideBeOS and he has done a lot of work to put this together.

Independency doesn't exist in the trademark world
by Jero on Mon 14th Jan 2002 18:22 UTC

Intellectual property includes all trademarks and these prevent from confusion ans also from ASSOCIATION on the same markets, that is on computing. They may still retain the so called commercial name till they liquidate, and only for that purpose, they cannot make competition of any kind with it= they cannot use it on the computing market.

For those of you picking on Bernd:
by Jace on Mon 14th Jan 2002 18:41 UTC

Bernd's english is not native. He is, if I recall correctly, german and speaks german natively. His site is not a fake. His lack of mastery of the english language shows on the site and I think he ought to take the suggestion given him several times to get someone to rewrite his english when english is his target audience. Beyond that, he's been actively developing things in the BeOS community for some time and is not a hoaxer or practical joker. Give the man a chance and don't be so nasty. Do YOU speak 2 languages perfectly??

Personally, I do not see value in this Yellow Tab project (as an existing user) but if he manages to publish this NG distrobution, it could help us get more users and make it easier for some users to try the OS and that's a good thing. IOW: "Chill out."

CattBeMac:
by Jace on Mon 14th Jan 2002 19:06 UTC

>Jace what is the latest from BeUnited?<

CattBeMac, right now, Bernd's YellowTab is not connected to BeUnited. Personally I would like to see the BeOS community pool resources, but if those involved in separate projects do not wish to do so, there is little that can be done about it. I think it is best to support each other where we can, but keep pushing forward on our own projects if no team synergy can be forged. BeUnited's status can be read on our site (http://www.beunited.org) and that's all I ought to comment on right now (all else would be hypothetical).

I urge you and everyone else who is interested in the future of BeOS to do the following:

1. Write FRIENDLY and INTELLIGENT letters to Palm Management asking them to consider BeUnited's request to license and develop BeOS. Show them your interest in being their customer.

2. If you feel that Be and BeOS were wronged by Microsoft, contact the Department of Justice and share your insights in a calm and rational manner. Ask that the DOJ demand whatever compensation from MS that you feel is justified. Think about it before you vent mindless bile, however. Suggestions like "open-source all of Microsoft's products" are not intelligent suggestions.

3. If you can code well, develop BeOS drivers for hardware that you need and that others need.

4. As above, develop software or team up with any active (or stalled) BeOS software project and get it kicked into a faster development speed.

5. If you know computer users who are frustrated with Windows and/or MacOS, introduce them to BeOS in a calm and friendly manner. Do NOT stand on a soapbox and preach to those that have no interest. If people are happy with their systems, leave them alone. Don't become a zealot. If people are unhappy but think that it is their own fault (lack of experience with computers) help them through their problems and show them where they are making mistakes and where the system is simply not designed for "normal people." This is not a suggestion to "brainwash" or "indoctrinate" those people into the "BeOS Religion." I mean, if your mom is pissed at her computer and thinks that she is an idiot, and you know the real problem is an unavoidable bug or behavior in the OS or software, try to explain that it is not her fault and offer alternatives (obviously suggest BeOS, but only where appropriate and not where it is pointless to do so).

Being an active participant is really all we can do. If in the end we fail, at least we tried. Lots of people think that Windows XP is the answer to all the troubles of the past or that MacOS X is the greatest thing to grace our lives since birth... If they really believe this, then I wish them happiness. Personally, I still want to fight for the BeOS.

Latest OpenBeos Newsletter#9
by Jero on Mon 14th Jan 2002 21:09 UTC

Michael Phipps adresses what you just said Jace.
"And from order, chaos..."
http://open-beos.sourceforge.net/newsletter.php#3

"...It would be a great relief to me, personally, and to the rest of the Be community to have a place. A single source for news, archives (Be's web site, etc), software (like BeBits), tutorials, links, community, tech support, etc. Someplace that is a portal, to use a 1990's term, for Be users. Someplace active and kept up to date. Someplace dedicated to survival. Someplace dedicated to thriving in 2002 and beyond..."

I agree with others the best BeOs community "portal" would be www.BeUnited.org DAMN!!!! just read the latest news "PALMS SAY NO". To hell with 'em, end of politeness. Now YellowTab should get closer to BeUnited or whayever encountering BeOS site.

by lightsaber on Tue 15th Jan 2002 10:42 UTC

Mark:

inĚcomĚpeĚtent (n-kmp-tnt)
adj.
-Not qualified in legal terms: a defendant who was incompetent to stand trial.
-Inadequate for or unsuited to a particular purpose or application.
-Devoid of those qualities requisite for effective conduct or action.

considering that the german issue is almost as badly put together (grammatically and content-wise) "incompetent" is the right word.

Anyway, with Palm not licensing to anyone, it doesn't matter much, does it? All hope now rests on OpenBeOS.

Who is YellowTab...
by Anonymous on Tue 15th Jan 2002 13:31 UTC

I did not see it upon browsing through the comment... so: These two Korz-guys seem to be the two brothers formerly (still ?) behind the inside BeOS journal. If you visit www.insidebeos.de you will find his e-mail.
If you remember, everyone was bitching about the page design of inside beos as well way back when they started, as well as about his English in the first issue(s) of the mag... BTW, what happend to this mag-thinngy? The last update on their page is from mid October.
So if YelloTab equals the inside BeOS team you might get a better idea whether or not they are up to the task, but I remember him telling that he indeed had quite a few connections to all sorts of BeOS-involved people...