Linked by Mike Johnston on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:24 UTC
Oracle and SUN I first tried Xandros when they released version 1.1. Being quite skeptical, I was unsure what to expect from this spawn of Corel Linux. I must admit in general, I was impressed. So needless to say, I was curious as to whether they managed to improve upon this distinct distribution and cater to the many requests they received about various improvements. Update: Another screenshot, Mozilla on Xandros.
Order by: Score:
off the subject
by arthur on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:35 UTC

What I wanted to know is crossover supports IE browser? I am with netzero.net and that's the only browser it support.

i beta tested too
by debian_semi_guru on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:37 UTC

too bad i never got it to work with a seperate /usr partition, and never got it to work with my wireless pcmcia card for my laptop.

maybe i'll give it another try with a future version, but 2.0 wasn't cutting it in my book.

in crossover office it does
by gnuoob on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:40 UTC

when i bought version 1.0 deluxe it allowed me to install a version of IE 5 i believe through the crossover office portion of it.

Yes to IE
by Tim Barber on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:42 UTC

I am using Crossover 2.0.1 under SuSE, and I have IE 5.5 installed without a problem.

Qeustionable rating?
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:44 UTC

According to the article it seems there's not much into Xandros. All seem pretty basic, KDE control center with minor tweaks, Xandros file manager and basic driver detection. No specialities at all, same installer as in last version. Standard web browser looks aweful and the desktop (as seen in the screenshots) looks mostly like Windows 95, though the file manager GUI is really amaturish.

I don't get it - how does this system deserve 9/10 (hinting a 10/10 was it not for the horrible look of mozilla) !?!?
The reviewer certainly doesn't justify it...

re: Qeustionable rating?
by pi on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:49 UTC

The main reason he gave it such high praise is that it just worked out of the box. The install was soooo easy... Like he said this is just a 1st impression...

Look for a review from me ....
by Darius on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:51 UTC

I plan to buy my copy tonight, and then put it through its paces, and then doing a real review. From a Windows power user perspective, we're going to find out how badass this distro really is.

Xandros 2.0 never worked on my PC....
by Anonymous on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:55 UTC

Yeah, I was a beta tester for 2.0. Well, I did not beta test very much because it NEVER wanted to boot on my test PC (Compaq Presario with nForce chipset and Athlon XP 1800+). I've tried everything, posted message on the Xandros Beta Forum but nothing ever worked.

Will I buy Xandros? NOPE. I'm back with Libranet 2.8.1 and Mandrake 9.1, both work very well on my test PC.

re: Qeustionable rating?
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:56 UTC

The main reason he gave it such high praise is that it just worked out of the box...

Oh, then we certainly have alot of 10/10 OS'es out there - Mandrake, Lindows, SuSE, ArkLinux, Windows (any version), MacOS (any verison), AmigaOS (any version) etc...

Maybe by todays standard an OS should be able to do more than install "correctly" in order to get such a high rating?

@Darius
by the randymon on Wed 17th Dec 2003 19:59 UTC

Darius (or somebody: Eugenia?) I'd appreciate a more in-depth review than this one. Here's what I'd like to know that no other review has mentioned:

Xandros Networks:
is it just a subset of the software or is it full DEB archives? Can I download postfix, mutt, mysql, LaTeX, gphoto2, opera, aterm, lynx? Those are my primary apps; traditional stuff like koffice doesn't interest me much.

Partitioning:
Can I use my existing /home partition?

Customization:
Can I seriously tweak the KDE configuration? (i.e. new icons, new background, move the kicker to the top of the screen, add additional themes, etc.)

Geek stuff:
Can I use it to compile stuff if I need to? Or do they strip out GCC and all those other goodies? Does it include Perl and so on?

Finesse:
Are the tweaks as good as they're cracked up to be? I'm mean log-on to a Windows domain upon boot up, automounting of removable media, the nice organization of the XFM filemanager, hardware detection?

Answer some of those questions and you'll have one very pleased reader here. No offense, but this review didn't answer many questions I have. Thanks.

In-depth Review
by David Adams on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:01 UTC

We will have a more in-depth review soon.

One thing you should know when you install (and have windows partitions) is that when you setup Linux partitions you don't have to select a mount point for your Windows partitions. Xandros does that for you (and mounts them so you can see them from Linux). If you try to give your Windows partitions a mount point then it will format your partitions.

As for dual boot you don't have to do anything at all. Xandros just did it for me. I was a little worried I'de have to manually edit the grub or lilo conf (haven't looked at what it's using yet), but Xandros did it for me... not too shabby...

Gnome?
by blixel on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:08 UTC

I've been wanting to check out Xandros 2.0 but it sounds like it's heavily KDE oriented. Personally I prefer Gnome. Anyone know what kind of Gnome experience Xandros offers? Is the Xandros File Manager QT?

Re: the randymon
by Darius on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:22 UTC

My review will be from the point of a Windows user, who has never compiled apps in the past and doesn't intend on doing so anytime in the near future.
You won't get any info about existing Linux partitions, but you'll get very detailed info about how it handles existing Windows partitionis ;)

Good review
by Jose on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:31 UTC

I thought the review was very well written. Folks here have to realize that Xandros is aimed towards the Corporate/SOHO user's desktop. It will not come with all of the bells and whistles that RedHat or SuSE comes with.
Plus, it is geared towards Window's users, not Power Users, but the 90 percent that work in Accounting, Claims, Administrative, etc.
9/10? If a Windows user can install it and use it right away, it is a success.
Frankly, I prefer a more beefy distro, but not everyone wants choice. I believe the typical Windows user wants the OS to pick the editor, paint program, file manager, etc. This is where distros like Xandros and Lindows rule.
Heck, that's the reason Windows 95/98 are still out in force. most people don't want to mess around with the OS, they just want to use the PC.

In any case, good review. I may purchase it and load it on my daughter's laptop. She just wants a browser, email and Open Office.

It's Debian
by Colin on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:43 UTC

If you're a power user just apt-get whatever files you need or use the gui front end to apt-get they've provided.

I have to agree with most here that the review wasn't very usefull. There was no detail, what's included as far as special features? How has Xandros made Debian more user friendly? What programs are included upon installation.

short?
by Scorchen on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:48 UTC

I can sum this review up.

"I had to wait a long time for xandros to release 2.0.
They finally released it, and I bought it because I like to support things I Like. Nothings really changed except updated packages, and it works on my computer, but mozilla is ugly. so I give this a 9/10!"

Wow. Last time I installed gentoo it worked. And everything i emerge works. And it was free.! 10/10!!

In Defense
by Anonymous on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:48 UTC

Folks, I think this review was intended to be, as its title states, a "First Impression." No, it isn't a detailed in-depth review, but I don't think it's supposed to be. Given that fact, I think it's a fine article and gives readers a "taste" of what Xandros 2.0 is like.

Re: Jose
by Darius on Wed 17th Dec 2003 20:49 UTC

Plus, it is geared towards Window's users, not Power Users, but the 90 percent that work in Accounting, Claims, Administrative, etc.

So exactly which distro is geared towards Windows users that are power users? I thought this was it? But if not, this is not the one I want to review. Which is the distro that gives you all the great features and works right out of the box? Or does one exist ?

Frankly, I prefer a more beefy distro, but not everyone wants choice. I believe the typical Windows user wants the OS to pick the editor, paint program, file manager, etc. This is where distros like Xandros and Lindows rule.

Why do you suppose Windows users either don't want or don't have choice? If I want an office wuite, I probably have three dozen in which to choose from. The difference is that on Windows, every one of them will work the very first time I attempt to install it.

Heck, that's the reason Windows 95/98 are still out in force. most people don't want to mess around with the OS, they just want to use the PC.

First you say we don't want choice, then you say we don't want to mess around with the OS. I will tell you that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. We want choice, yet we don't want to messa round with the OS outside of customizing the GUI. That's what I get with Windows XP. Besides download a few patches every month, it pretty much runs itself.

various comments
by xandros user on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:03 UTC

It doesn't have gnome, but does have all the libs so you can run whatever you want...just not the gnome desktop.

You can tweak the desktop all you want. It is KDE 3.1.4 and anything KDE can do in any other distro can be done on Xandros.

Xandros Networks has it's own repository. You can set the sources via GUI in xandros networks, but you can screw it up by apt-getting some debian packages. You will want to pin your Xandros packages to a 991 priority. Then you can update or install anything you want from Debian - even testing or unstable - and be sure that you will not overwrite any Xandros dependencies or packages that will "break" Xandros.

It's important to note that you can also install RPMS and DEBS that you have or download in the gui as well. It automatically converts the RPMS, and works amazingly well.

As for the Dev Tools, I believe they're on the second cd but I'm not sure. However, they are also installable from Xandros Networks.

This distro is incredible. If you're a big Gentoo geek you probably don't get that, but whatever. The rest of us quasi-geek linux users and new to intermediate users will all love this distro. It is the current KING OF THE DESKTOP.

v POWER USER????
by DrLinux on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:08 UTC
v What No Libranet Review?
by Paul on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:18 UTC
mozilla
by HelloWorld on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:22 UTC

>Mozilla looked awful (as you can see in the screenshot)

which screenshot ? They are only 2, and nowhere I can see mozilla

Re: mozilla
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:29 UTC

You don't have to change my sentences when quoting in order to make them look stupid. No one ever said Mozilla looked awful (as you can see in the screenshot)

Read the original post again, HelloWorld, and you might be able to interpret the meaning of it, or at least the get the words in correct order.

Re: various comments
by blixel on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:30 UTC

It doesn't have gnome, but does have all the libs so you can run whatever you want...just not the gnome desktop.

Thanks for the information. I was debating on buying it but now I'll definitely wait for the free trial download so I can see it first. I'm just not big on KDE. I *want* to like KDE, but I just don't. So these distros that are KDE centric and come with QT based tools don't really appeal to me. But I'm still curious to see how great and wonderful Xandros is so I'll check out the free trial when it's available.

RE:ealm
by psycosis on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:35 UTC

> You don't have to change my sentences when quoting in order to make them look stupid. No one ever said Mozilla looked awful (as you can see in the screenshot)

> Read the original post again, HelloWorld, and you might be able to interpret the meaning of it, or at least the get the words in correct order.

The orignal poster quoted from the article, not you.

re: ealm
by Anonymous on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:38 UTC

Ummmm... HelloWorld was quoting from the article. Maybe *you* should take the time to read more carefully before posting. And HelloWorld is right -- the author does reference a screenshot of Mozilla that isn't there.

Simmer down, ealm.

Re: mozilla
by mark on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:39 UTC

I don't see any screenshots of Mozilla either? Where?

Re: RE:ealm
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:39 UTC

Ohh.. then I'm sorry ;)
My own sentence was so similar so I mistook it...
Thanx for pointing it out psycosis

Are you kidding??
by Garet on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:41 UTC

"These reviews of a "me too" distro of linux grows tiresome"

Xandros is anything BUT a "me too" distro. It is one of the few left that actually has a REAL company behind, and moving from 1.1 to 2.0 is hardly an "upgrade". It has a number of major feature changes.

Not that your point is invalid by itself, I just think raised at the wrong time. Wait until the new Libranet release, then we'll all be happy to sit and listen. :-)

re: mozilla
by xandros user on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:43 UTC

I was a beta tester, and yes, it is ugly. oh well, that's why mozilla is themeable.

I think that they need to replace Kontrol center
by blah on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:47 UTC

it is just an app that uses Links to organize the programs in it, why not make a sliker looking and workign application a-la OS X's system prefrence application.

re: I think that they need to replace Kontrol center
by xandros user on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:52 UTC

Why reinvent the wheel? They have done quite a few tweaks to it, so it's way better/easier to use/navigate than the standard kontrol centre, but I don'think making a new interface for it is a great idea. Doing that really doesn't add much value IMO. Some people disagree, but I've always been a fan of kontrol centre. I find it easy and even nice to use.

xandros review
by Mike Johnston on Wed 17th Dec 2003 21:59 UTC

Ok. first of all, I wrote this article with the intention of giving people a VERY QUICK rundown of what i found it to be like in the first 30 minutes of installing it. I wanted to show some screenshots so people could see it.. as the xandros website doesn't show much (at the time). So as for everyone's comments on my reviewing capabilities.. this is a very quick review and is intended to be such. As for the screenshots. I included several when I submitted this review.. including a mozilla one.. for space constraints it doesn't appear they have included them. As for the rating, I gave it a 9/10 on first impressions. If I choose to give something a high rating because I like it, then that is simply my choice.. the point to this review was to let people know my opinion.. and not to force them to agree.

Having said that. Xandros 2 is still on my desktop.. and I find it very usable and enjoy it as my main desktop so far. The product is simply good. And that, ladies and gentleman.. is simply my opinion.

oh and one more comment
by Mike Johnston on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:04 UTC

As a final comment, Eugenia asked me to allow them to put this up, because I had changed my mind about how well the review was written and how indepth and therefore emailed osnews to ask them not to post it. After receiving an email from Eugenia asking me why they couldn't post it, I agreed to let them go ahead.. since there aren't any other quick previews at this point on Xandros 2. So if you don't like the review.. that's ok, but it was quick and simply. period.

Mike...
by pi on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:12 UTC

I think it was a good first look. I installed it and would have said just about the same thing as you did. I didn't have time to launch Mozilla yet though. (I installed it at home during my lunch break and didn't setup the modem yet)

Everyone who was bitching because it wasn't a full review should have RTFA. Xandros hasn't been out long enough for a full review yet anyway...

RE: Mike...
by Mike Johnston on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:15 UTC

Thanks for that.

J Like Java
by Behrang on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:15 UTC

Is there a JDK/JVM 1.4.x (or 1.3.x) available for Lindows or Xandros? Has anybody ran Eclipse, JBoss, or NetBeans on Lindows or Xandros?

RE: J Like Java
by Mike Johnston on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:19 UTC

JDK1.4.2 is included in the deluxe version of Xandros 2. I believe that the 99.95 US priced option.

Gnome support & DE hacks
by pixelmonkey on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:21 UTC

As for Gnome support, it looks like Xandros is pretty tied to KDE. One can use Gnome, I'm sure, but then you get less of the "benefits" of Xandros.

That's my main problem with these kinds of distros. By "these kinds," I mean most every one that imposes a DE on you. "But Windows and Mac OS impose a DE on you," you may say. But that's the whole neat thing about access to tons of free software and Linux... there are so many choices. I prefer if a distro maker tries less to hack a DE to their liking and instead just provides the underlying infrastructure and lets the user run free customizing their desktop to their needs. Debian already provides a rock-solid package management infrastructre. That's really what Linux is about. The truth is, no matter how hard you hack KDE, it's never gonna look as nice as OSX/Aqua, etc.

Libranet, I think, gets good reviews because it is essentially a Debian desktop that is "delivered" to users with hardware working through a better installer and good packages quickly installable off the CD (not to mention XFree86 4.3 and other goodies).

What I wish these distro developers would do is provide this underlying infrastructure and if they want to make changes to the DE, submit those patches to KDE or Gnome (or whatever) directly, and if the dev community likes the patches, it'll get integrated into the official branch! Doesn't this make sense?

A distro will be liked by users if it gets them access to working Linux software out of the box, without hardware problems, and if the company is willing to support their product with competent people.

Beyond that, everything's bells and whistles, methinks.

RE: Nice Review,
by chucar on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:28 UTC

however can you tell us if this new version has scanner support similiar to Suse, Mandrake, Red Hat, and Libranet. The last version of Xandros was sorely lacking in this area.

Those icons need serious work
by Alastair Stevens on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:34 UTC

Well, if we're talking first impressions, just look at those icons! I've said it before, but they're hideous, and look utterly amateur. I don't think this is subjective - for example I don't like Gnome's icons, but I recognise that they do at least look professional. The Xandros icons look truly terrible, and it really spoils the look of the whole desktop.

If they're using KDE and the Plastik theme, why not just use the standard Crystal icons? I know it sounds silly, but this really bothers me ;-)

Critics mostly on rating, not review...
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:35 UTC

I think most people here (including my self) being critical isn't about review not being "complete". It's perfectly fine to write a "first impressions" review, and I found it pretty good actually.

What the review IS lacking though, which hasn't got to do with how in-depth it is, is that the author simply doesn't justify the rating.

Of course that's subjective, but to me it doesn't seem like the author points out many good and strong points about the product.

The review more suggests the product is "ok" and then, summing up with a 9/10. Only explanation being an excuse for not being 10/10 due to ugliness in the web browser.

Don' t take my words too hard though Mike - it was a nice review all through. I'm only skeptical about the rating you give it.

Re: pixelmonkey (Multiple DEs)
by Darius on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:38 UTC

I think the problem with providing multiple DEs in a distro like this is that it just doesn't have a very cohesive feel to it. The one thing that Linux lacks is consistency, which is what a lot of people who this distro is geared towards want. The DEs within themselves have lots of consistency, but when you throw a bunch of them in the same OS, that consistency is lost. Just give me a kick-ass DE that's sensibly out of the box (to satisfy Joe Sixpack), and let the power users customize it accordingly.
So, I think it is better to have different distros with different DEs, as it allows vendors to customize their interfaces accordingly, instead of trying mesh all of this crap into one disorganized heap. I myself have tried Libranet and I find it irritating as hell when I launch KDE and look for the utils I was using in IceWM and nothing is where it was in the other DE. I think the Xandros way is much, much better.

I'll acknowledge that perhaps I didn't point out why it got a 9 out of 10.. in fact the rating may have been too good for the depth of the review. I still think it's deserving of the 9/10.. but not at the time the review was written. Understanding that, I think i gave it that rating mostly out of the fact that I did find it fit exactly what I wanted. Sorry for not justifying the rating further tho.. i can understand the confusion/frustration there.

re: Are you kidding
by None on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:52 UTC

" It is one of the few left that actually has a REAL company behind, "

Sorry to nickpick, but that just makes absolutely Zero sense. Red Hat/Fedora Linux, Novell/Suse Linux, Mandrake Linux, Lindows Linux etc, all have REAL companies behind them. The only semi-well known distros that don't have "real companies" behind them are Slackware, Debian, and Gentoo, and Xandros sure doesn't compete in their ballpark. Even those distros gets lots of support from various corporate sponsers.

Just wanted to point this out for anyone here who isn't familiar with Linux and might have thought for some reason that Xandros was unique in having corporate backing.

re: re: I think that they need to replace Kontrol center
by blah on Wed 17th Dec 2003 22:59 UTC

iti is not reinventing the wheel. the Kontrol center layout might be logical, but it is clunky and does not go well with the rest of the DE.

Four hours review?
by mythought on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:05 UTC

How can you rate an OS after fiddling around for four hours only?
He sais he will let people know if he changes his mind ... why not testing this thing thoroughly before posting the review?




re: Four hours review?
by xandros user on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:17 UTC

he already answered that.

Ugly Mozilla
by Alex on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:17 UTC

What is so ugly about it? Can I see a screenshot of it? Is it the Classic theme as used on Fedora? Is it the Orbit theme? Is it the Modern theme?

Re: Four hours review?
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:22 UTC

mythought: If you don't like first impression reviews, why do you at all click it when topic says it all?

Good Review
by B. Smith on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:24 UTC

Of course, you realize that you reviewed something before the argumentative types go ttheir own copy. I think they may be disgruntled that they can't cite specific evidence of their own experience to make a good argument over. ;)

Personally, I liked the review. You can't please everyone so don't try. Just please yourself and go on with your life.

I am happily waiting for my copy to get here, hopefully sometime before Christmas. I intend to dissect that manual from the point of view of a technical writer. This should be interesting.

Barry

look at this
by André Lourenço on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:38 UTC

http://www.xandros.com/pdf/xandros_desktop_stddlx.pdf

Producer: Acrobat Distiller 5.0 for Macintosh

Re: André Lourenço
by Darius on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:40 UTC

Producer: Acrobat Distiller 5.0 for Macintosh

Hehe .. that's pretty good, almost as good as MS running Linux servers ;)

Review
by Alex on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:42 UTC

The review was too superficial and not looked over. There are just so many mistakes uncapitalized "i"s and general vagueness.

While I think Xandros hasa very good distribution, and may very well deserve that rating, more details need to be provided and some comparrisons.

Re: Review
by ealm on Wed 17th Dec 2003 23:51 UTC

Alex:

Your comment was too clueless and not looked over. You haven't went through the discussion that has already taken place here and you do too many spelling and grammatical mistakes.

While I think you might be a nice guy anyway, I do believe you should think your own attitude over for a second.

My quick and dirty review
by Ashley on Thu 18th Dec 2003 00:08 UTC

I've installed it and its great. Some points:

- hideous icons? some dude claimed that this wasn't subjective! I peronally don't mind them. Personally, I think Xandros looks much better than lindows (too commercial looking for my tastes) and better than Redhat's blue curve theme. But hey I won't claim my tastes are objective and universal! Anyway its KDE 3.14 so you can install whatever theme you want from www.kde-look.org
- Someone asked about internet explorer. I'm currently installing it now via codeweavers. Its version 6.0. Ok it installs nicely and works well.
- Xandros networks- I'm currently in the middle of running a kernel update due to some security problem. However, the application looks pretty slick. There are both free apps and commercial apps in there (netraverse and codeweavers)for those that only bought the standard edition - just whip out credit card and you are away)). I imagine it has access to the full debian archive (sarge) as Xandros 1.0 did. Remember you can always use apt-get if you prefer the command line.
- All my hardware was configured properly (nvidia card, hp printer etc. I don't have a scanner so I can't comment there.
- Sharing my music and photos directory via samba was a two click procedure via Xandros File Manager. I now access my music from my Sharp Zaurus via a wireless lan.
- I similarly shared my printer via two click procedure.
- Xandros File manager has an integrates cd burner. I needed to burn the iso for the second cd. I just navigated to the directory clicked on the iso and selected burn to disk. I'm now burning the second iso. How easy is that? I literally have not configured any info on my cdburner- it already new. You can also select mp3s and burn them. In addition, you can drag and drop songs from a regular cd and it will automatially ogg them (or mp3 them if you have the encoder installed, which Xandros doesn't but I'm sure you can find if you are desparate for mp3 burning capability).
Xandros File Manager also automatically mounts any usb storage device etc. At least this was the case for 1.0, and I'm sure its the same for 2.0 (don't have any compact flash cards lying around).
- All the plugins are installed by default. The java is 1.4 point something. It is very fast to load up and plays
Yahoo Chess well.
- Kontrol centre has all the config options in one place. I don't need to go there though, as everything was configured for me when I installed Xandros.
- Everything is pretty boring really as it should be. Sorry I don't have more exotic hardware.

Problems:

- I think we found a bug. I installed Xandros over an existing Xandros installation (it preserves user directories). But once installed I couldn't load up Real Player. It seems that Xandros was assigning incorrect permissioning to the user data including the .realnetworks directory. I fixed this issue by doing a fresh install. No probs now. Xandros support are aware of this and said, that they are working on a fix to be downloaded via Xandros Networks.
- In the short amount of time I have had this disto, every thing else seems fine.

?
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 00:15 UTC

Your right, I am clueless, clueless to what you mean.

"Your comment was too clueless and not looked over. You haven't went through the discussion that has already taken place here and you do too many spelling and grammatical mistakes.

While I think you might be a nice guy anyway, I do believe you should think your own attitude over for a second."

I have went through the discussion here, I am jsut giving my opinion on this review. I am aware I made grammatical and spelling mistakes, but I hardly find it worth my time to check when all I'm doing is submitting a comment. However I have much higher standards for myself and others when submitting a review to a website that gets tens of thousands of views each month.

What attitude are you talking about?

RE: Good Review
by Barad Dur on Thu 18th Dec 2003 00:17 UTC

" I intend to dissect that manual from the point of view of a technical writer."

As a technical writer, what do you look for in a distro?

First Review
by lefty on Thu 18th Dec 2003 00:56 UTC

The title of the article was "First Impressions on Xandros 2.0 Standard Edition". What part of that did some of you misunderstand? It wasn't intended to be a thorough review; not after 4 hours. It was informational, for those who may be considering it.

There seems to be a lot of burnouts and crybabies on this site who piss and moan about every article anyone writes. READ the articles in the spirit they're written. Or else take another toke.

Mozilla?
by none on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:02 UTC

I wish their was a screen shot of mozilla. A whole point for a theme? Little rough.

Good article.

Alex
by ealm on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:07 UTC

Your attitude towards people who doesn't speak enlgish natively.

This is an international OS site. If you have higher demands on the language in articles you better go to zdnet or something like that.

And about "more details and comparissons"; well... this is a "First impressions" article, not a complete review and it's already been discussed here in earlier comments.

Re: @Darius
by Kanwar on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:12 UTC

Xandros Networks: Yes, from the beta that I've tested, you can add your own deb sources and download whatever you wish ...

Customization: Yes, full KDE customization is possible ... I have acqua style, aqua window broders, macosx like icons ... and yes, my panel is around 50% of my screen and I can move it to any side of my screen too ... Color schemes etc everything can be changed as usual ... In fact unlike LindowsOS, Xandros does not try to "hide" the fact that its based on KDE ...

Partitioning: Yes, you can use all your existing partitions ... probably (and i'm not sure) it might rename it to /home_old but it will be threre

Geek stuff: Yes, you can download via xandros networks or apt-get (since u want geek stuff) and install all that you wish ...

Does that answer all your queries???

Xandros has got it right!! Admit it folks!

This mini-review
by tim1980 on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:15 UTC

Hello,
I think this mini review was good, although I also think there is going to be many more reviews to come out soon. We need to wait for people like myself to receive the boxed copy. I personally am planning to write a full 3 or 4 page review.
I was one of the beta testers also, and I can say that the folks at Xandros Corp. are ace, they listen to their users and beta testers, unlike some other distros out there. many of my improvement suggestions where implemented.
There are many cool features of Xandros Desktop 2.0 that no one has talked about yet, so just wait for them. But if your at all curious you should show your support and buy a copy. I do not believe you will be disappointed.

v Hey guys, check this out ...
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:20 UTC
Difference between Standard and Deluxe
by Drill Sgt on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:29 UTC

Just curious, as I can not seem to find it on Xandros site. What is the packages included on the second CD besides crossover? Anyone happen to know if there is a listing somewhere? Thanks.

oh well..
by Mike Johnston on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:36 UTC

Well thanks to those of you who made nice comments.. and to those who made "not so nice" comments... Instead of telling me that I don't know how to write and picking apart a review I wrote in like 10 minutes, why don't you just do something productive and bloody well write your own review and get it posted. I did this basically so people could have a quick overview and see what they thought since i couldn't find much info anywhere else.

Pick your battles... It's not worth ruining someone else's day just because you can.

Re: Mike
by pixelmonkey on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:56 UTC

A piece of advice: when you write an article, you throw yourself out to the wolves. So spend more than 10 minutes, and even if you spend a whole day on the article, expect to get criticised, harshly, perhaps even have your character attacked. The flames on the web never go out ;-)

If you're upset now, imagine if your article had gotten /.'ed! Us OSNews folk are kind compared to the unsightly trolls /. breeds and unleashes into the tech world.

In short, don't worry about it ;-) It's par for the course.

Re: Drill Sgt (Standard vs Deluxe)
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 01:58 UTC

Following are the differences between the Standard and Deluxe editions:

* Xandros Desktop OS Standard Edition does not include CodeWeavers CrossOver Office or Plugin so you are not able to run any Windows compatible applications on Xandros Desktop.

* NTFS resizing is not possible when installing Xandros Desktop OS Standard Edition but you can still resize FAT and FAT32 partitions. Windows XP and Windows NT systems usually use NTFS by default.

* Xandros Desktop OS Standard Edition does not include the second CD which contains additional applications.

* No software manual is included with the Standard Edition (but you can download that with my above link)

* With the Standard Edition, you are entitled to 30 days of installation technical support via e-mail.

NTFS resizing & Mozilla skin silliness
by pixelmonkey on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:09 UTC

What a strange thing to keep out of the Standard Edition. NTFS resizing is pretty handy, and there's no sense to it only being present in Deluxe (except as a "we got you by the balls" impetus for buying Deluxe).

I always thought Deluxe was just Standard + Codeweavers. That's still basically true, but what a weird line to draw.

Also, John: I agree with you on Mozilla. Wow, is it UGLY! They could have just left it at default modern look and they would have been much better off with something like this, for their Windows converts!
http://themes.mozdev.org/phoenix/luna.html

errm...
by pixelmonkey on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:10 UTC

foot in mouth, that's actually for Phoenix. But you get my drift.

@Darius
by Drill Sgt on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:12 UTC

Thanks. That much I had seen. My question was actually what are the extra applications on the second CD besides crossover. All it says is it does not include the second CD with the additional applications, but I was wondering what those applications are. I do appreciate the reply though ;)

You got it wrong.
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:25 UTC

"Your attitude towards people who doesn't speak enlgish natively.

This is an international OS site. If you have higher demands on the language in articles you better go to zdnet or something like that.

And about "more details and comparissons"; well... this is a "First impressions" article, not a complete review and it's already been discussed here in earlier comments."

I don't speak English natively either, but I do check my work if it is something like a review and I make sure that I correct all I can. I am not dissapointed in the writter of this article, I am dissapointed in OSNEWS for posting something without meeting some basic quality standards.

Re: Drill Sgt (and kernel 2.6 and Crossover)
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:28 UTC

I just got through burning ISO disc 2 and there's an assload of deb files on here - it just looks like the packages dir of any ordinary distro. I don't see anything that you probably couldn't get from the apt sources though.

On an unrelated note, I see there's an article on ZDNet that says they're getting ready to release kernel 2.6, which kinda pisses me off cuz I thought it was still months away. Anybody know if there will be a way for us Xandros whores to upgrade ? ;)

ALso, something I completely forgot to look into - what about future upgrades for Crossover? Will we get any of those for free, or are we stuck with whatever version comes with Xandros til we cough up more $$ ?

Xandros D/L
by Macs_R_4_SuXxORz on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:29 UTC

I thought they were going to provide 30day trials?

Browser theme
by Anonymous on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:40 UTC

From the screenshot, I don't see what's so awful about the browser theme... in fact, I kind of liked it. What am I missing?

Ugly Art
by anon on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:44 UTC

Xandros have an distro that sounds excellent, but judging by the screenshots they could really do with some half decent artists in-house.

v off the subject
by MrApples on Thu 18th Dec 2003 02:51 UTC
Hey, hey, hey
by ChocolateCheeseCake on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:10 UTC

Lets lay off the reviewer, sure, it is on the shortish side, however, lets remember that the target of this distribution, it isn't Joe/Jane Geek or Joe/Jane Tweaker. It is aimed at an end user with intermediate knowledge of Windows and have an interest in moving to another platform for a reason; that reason I wouldn't know as I am not the target audience.

From the screenshots what I see so far, it is ALOT more polished than Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE. Just take a look at that Mozilla screenshot. Good icons, clean theme and "Xandros" branding in the browser. These are CLEAR indicators that this company knows what it is doing. The only other thing that comes close to a decent branding and uniform themeing is JDS, however, they haven't released pricing yet for those interested in purchasing only one copy.

When people are going compare, they are going to compare it against Windows and MacOS; whether you like it or not the current distributors can't even get the basics of a uniform HIG and theme put in place. What is SO hard about the qt and gtk communities sitting down and working out how things should be arranged in menus, buttons arranged in dialogue boxes and so forth. The fact remains that the end user doesn't care about toolkits, all they care about is the applications that run on their computer. They have a computer to run applications not to try and tweak the heck out of it just to get something that resembles uniformity.

More questions about Xandros
by J. J. Ramsey on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:23 UTC

1) Does Xandros have a GUI utility for configuring SANE? (Some SANE scanners require a bit of configuration before they will work.)

2) Last time I used Xandros Desktop, the preferences dialog for Xandros File Manager was exactly the same as the one used for Konqueror, which looked oddball since the dialog was mostly about Konqueror's web browsing capabilities. (Xandros File Manager could be used as a web browser, but it didn't exactly advertise this functionality.) Has the file manager's dialog changed?

Brought it on yourself
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:29 UTC

"Well thanks to those of you who made nice comments.. and to those who made "not so nice" comments... Instead of telling me that I don't know how to write and picking apart a review I wrote in like 10 minutes, why don't you just do something productive and bloody well write your own review and get it posted. I did this basically so people could have a quick overview and see what they thought since i couldn't find much info anywhere else.

Pick your battles... It's not worth ruining someone else's day just because you can."

Reviews are meant to be picked apart just as a review is meant to pick apart the product being looked at. After all, somebody has to review the review to make sure that it is fairly true.

As you said yourself you only took about 10 minutes to write this review. Which obviously means you don't really care about the quality of your work and now you expect only praise?!! Some of us just can't review it yet, we don't have the product.

If you are going to do something, do it right.

Darius
by Anonymous on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:42 UTC

You have no ethics do you pal.

I think someone should remove those links.

v @Darius
by DrLinux on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:46 UTC
I agree
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:51 UTC

Xandros has worked mroe thana year to bring this release and than some hooligan kills their business by posting the download links. Lindows has the same problem but at least they live off of CNR and not the operating system. This is very mean and I advise OSNEWS.COM to ban the user that posted these if they can.

I've reported it to Xandros
by xandros user on Thu 18th Dec 2003 03:55 UTC

Hopefully they'll change the links a bit.

Darius, you're an idiot, and I hope you get banned.

thank you
by xandros user on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:18 UTC

Thanks for removing that post. Feel free to delete the ones that bash him for doing it too...why leave that stuff on here to tarnish this good site.

Re:
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:19 UTC

Those are the links that they emailed me when I bought it. They did not say not to share them, so I think they did it on purpose. If they didn't, then that is one HELL of a lapse in security. And the sad truth is that if had been MS who did something like this, you guys would've been all over it in a heartbeat, but now you're bitching because it happens to be one of your precious Linux distros - I guess it doesn't feel so good when the shoe is on the other foot, huh?

Besides, what happened to all of this free software movement and 'your right to say what I can do with the software ends when you sell it to me?' I thought that was a major motivator of the free software movement? But now somebody takes the free software, adds a file manager to it, and the whole 'freedom' thing goes completely out the window? Does this whole model of thinking depend on people being ethical?

Xandros Downloads different for each purchase
by airider on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:20 UTC

To the poster that put up his/her links for the xandros downloads. You really just shot yourself in the foot. Each dl iso has a unique identifier with it related to a single downloading customer. Obviously everyone can get the iso's now and use them, however, any attempt to contact the Xandros update servers will show that they are using your iso's and it may or may not come back to you since there is some propietary software that isn't GPL'd. Xandros said they would put out the 30 day trial once the initial paid customer dl eases off...that's when people can give it a whirl for free (as in beer). When that is, nobody knows for sure. I'm not going to debate the ethics of distributing an essentially GPL'd distro without the companies blessings, but you should really do some research before you point the spotlight back at yourself on /.

Your right
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:25 UTC

Darius they have not said anything, but isn't it implied!? You had to pay for it to get the links so quite obviously they don't want everyone downloading it for free.

It is also a secuirity problem with their website not the product. If it were Microsoft, it would be no different, people would not want you posting Warez here.

As for free software, you are free to do that. But Xandros is not all free software, the company lives off of this and it is just a start-up, not like Microsoft which has enough cash to go on for years without selling a dime's worth of products. The free software in Xandros has the sources available on Xandros's website and is also freely downloadable under the terms of free software licenses like the GPL. But, only if a company has modified a GPLd product do they have to return the changes. If they build somethign from scratch, like XFM, than that is not so.

Please understand.

Darius: Hope your credit card has a high credit limit!
by esd-dude on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:35 UTC

Darius, each customer gets a unique URL. Your Order # is probably planted right there in that big long string. Xandros will probably charge your credit card for every download that is made on their servers from a different IP then your first download!

Merry Christmas, looser!

Re:
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:38 UTC

Each dl iso has a unique identifier with it related to a single downloading customer. Obviously everyone can get the iso's now and use them, however, any attempt to contact the Xandros update servers will show that they are using your iso's and it may or may not come back to you since there is some propietary software that isn't GPL'd.

So, what's the worst that can happen, my copy of Xandros stops working? When paying and downloading the stuff, I agreed to no EULAs and at no time was given instructions that the links were to remain private. And if my ISOs are specific to me, then why in the f**k are they sending URLs like that unsecured through email? Maybe they should just start including credit card numbers in there too? Heck, anybody who could've intercepted that email upstream now has free reighn of my ISOs. This could also happen to anyone else who bought a copy.

And, you know what they say in Microsoft's case - screw letting the vendor know first; just release the damn security flaw to the public and that'll give the software vendor a good kick in the ass. Personally, I think turnabout's fair play.

And don't think me too unethical - I actually paid for the distro.

Well.....
by B. Smith on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:41 UTC

I know a few people who use bootleg MS software as a matter of course, and feel justified doing it. And now there is an outbreak of righteous indignation that someone is providing the means (not forcing anyone, just offering a gateway) to doing the same thing for a Linux distro.

Does this mean that it is OK to steal from a big/rich company but not a small/poor company? As an American, this smells familiar. Is this akin to the same reasoning that leads our "allies" to graciously accept all of our money that they can hold with one hand while fondling a naked stilletto with the other?

If it is wrong, then it is wrong. Period.

Personally, my main concern is the fact that he did it on someone else's website. That was not nice. OSNews could easily get Xandros on their case for this. They probably won't because OSNews took it off quickly. But it might have happened. If you are going to post warez, please do it on your own site? Then it is between you, your conscience and the law. Please don't get other people in trouble just to prove a philosophical point.

Barry

Re: esd-dude
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:41 UTC

Xandros will probably charge your credit card for every download that is made on their servers from a different IP then your first download!

Nope, they said you could download it as many times as you wanted for 30 days, so filtering by IP address would be dumb. The point is those links should've been password protected.

darius, you have a point
by xandros user on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:45 UTC

but I still don't think it was right to post that. you could have sent them back an email and told them your concerns.

Darius, I fear thou art busted
by B. Smith on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:49 UTC

I just clicked the link for the user guide that you provided and got a message that your order number was no longer valid. They may have left a security hole, but they closed it pretty quick I see.

Barry

Agreed.
by Alex on Thu 18th Dec 2003 04:56 UTC

"I know a few people who use bootleg MS software as a matter of course, and feel justified doing it. And now there is an outbreak of righteous indignation that someone is providing the means (not forcing anyone, just offering a gateway) to doing the same thing for a Linux distro.

Does this mean that it is OK to steal from a big/rich company but not a small/poor company? As an American, this smells familiar. Is this akin to the same reasoning that leads our "allies" to graciously accept all of our money that they can hold with one hand while fondling a naked stilletto with the other?

If it is wrong, then it is wrong. Period."

As I beleive too. It is wrong to steal period, and I wouldn't steal from Microsoft or Xandros. However waht I was saying is that, unlike Microsoft Xandros can not afford this and I doubt that they are even turning a profit yet. On the other hand, Microsoft covers all their costs and manages to make a 416% profit on Windows alone. This is far more than they should, and would not be possible without a monopoly. Most companies, make under 10%.

Also, again, I think that was implied that you shouldn't go and post the download links for anyone on the web to download. Even though, you might have a right to, since it didn't mention to the contrary. As you mentioned, you have 30 days to download the ISOs and as many times as you want, so there really isn't anything they could do, because you could theoretically go to many computers and download the ISOs yourself. So, yes you do have a point technically, but morally is another question. Why would you even want people to have acess to something you paid for?





Your wrong!
by Mario on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:09 UTC

The download was meant for you and nobdy else. If they see that one download from the same IP is coming fromA ustria, another from France, another from US, and one from Brazil, they know something is fishy, so, no this isn't cool. And, I'm pretty sure that they mentioned it was for private use only.

Furthermore, if you wanted to steal from the company and make them lose thousands of dollars in potential users you should of uploaded it to anotehr server so that the links don't expire and so that they have no control over it. But why, they are already offering a very good price for update users and new users a like. Xandros remember has to pay Codeweavers too for distributing Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin. Keep in mind that just the products from Codeweavers would cost you $100 without shipping or taxes applied so, really Xandros has a very good price. And they include a lot of their own stuff too, much which you won't find in other distributions.

And, I suspect that they will at elast e-mail you if not disable your account, I e-mailed them since you put up the ISOs. The PDFS ok, that is OK, give the curious users something to do while waiting and a way to see what the product offers. However, putting down all of their work, that was wrong.

Re:
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:14 UTC

Darius, I fear thou art busted

Well, I figured it was uniquely identifiable to me - I wasn't really that concerned with getting caught. Afterall, they're the ones that created this situation, not me.

And, I'm pretty sure that they mentioned it was for private use only.

They did not.

Furthermore, if you wanted to steal from the company and make them lose thousands of dollars in potential users you should of uploaded it to anotehr server so that the links don't expire and so that they have no control over it.

Obviously, this was not my intention. I just noticed the whole security thing and wanted to share it with others. If I wanted to steal from the company, I would've gotten it from alt.binaries.warez.linux. (If it's not there yet, it will be soon.)

They may have left a security hole, but they closed it pretty quick I see.

Did they? I would invite anyone else who has purchased a downloadable version of Xandros to see if you can reach the link from a computer that you didn't download it from without a username/password.

And, I suspect that they will at elast e-mail you if not disable your account

Actually, they have done both. I just got a letter from Xandros (don't think it was fake) saying don't do that again, or else threatening me with legal action. Seems they want to blame me for their own stupidity - whatever.

Also, again, I think that was implied that you shouldn't go and post the download links for anyone on the web to download.

I honestly don't know what they were thinking. Did they honestly not think anyone would do that? Surely, if I hadn't, someone else would have.

Why would you even want people to have acess to something you paid for?

Why not? Free software, baby!!!! Ok, technically this is not free, but it IS Linux, and Linux is supposed to be free .... it's all about freedom, right? Or at least that's what the zealots keep yelling at me.
My question to all of you is - if doing this sort of thing would hurt Xandros as you say, then how the hell would it have made a difference if the whole thing was open source and I had every right to do what they did? I thought it was all about SERVICES, and not PRODUCTS?

Darius et al
by Eugenia on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:16 UTC

Darius, you can't redistribute for free the whole deal. Sure, according to the GPL you might be able to redistribute the Free parts of Xandros, but not the Xandros proprietary tools which come in the ISOs. Therefore, your links here were plain warez.

Please forget about the whole thing and do not post such links again. Talk about more happy things.

Redistribute ....
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:24 UTC

Darius, you can't redistribute for free the whole deal. Sure, according to the GPL you might be able to redistribute the Free parts of Xandros, but not the Xandros proprietary tools which come in the ISOs.

I know what you're saying, but what exactly did I redistribute? You didn't see those links pointing to my site, did you? I simply gave out a public link, and gave the actual ISOs to nobody.
It's like the company does something really stupid, so let's all blame it on Darius.

re: babbling idiot
by James Warkentin on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:39 UTC

I paid 39.95 US for this delight.. as you will soon see (if you succumb to my opinion).

Apparently he paid the 40 bucks only if I succumb to his opinion - what do I see if I don't succumb? Perhaps it is time for this 'technical analyst' to learn English if he wants to be taken seriously.
I stopped reading at this point, as the author has no idea how to formulate a coherent thesis, and I do not give points for effort.

Thought I would mention ....
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 05:57 UTC

After all this happened, I have had awhile to install and play with this thing, and here are first impressions ....

Pros
----
- Great install program
- Xandros file manager is bangin' and seems much faster than the default KDE/Gnome file managers, and you can also browse websites with it like Explorer (but where the hell is the list view!?!?!).
- Despite what was previously reported, mp3 DOES work out of the box
- We get a choice of a nice looking Windows theme from those of us coming over from the dark side ;)
- DVD-Rs are recognized (haven't tried burning yet)
- Just on a lark, I tried to install CoolEdit Pro 2.1 (simply double clicked on the setup executable) and it almost worked. It complained about a missing DLL file, but I think it might work with a little prodding ;)

Cons
----
- Browser plugins are sub-par. There's no Quicktime plugin AFAIK. Sometimes the real player plugin works (jasonx.com) and sometimes it doesn't (terminator3.com) .. tested with Mozilla.
- No Firebird browser out of the box and not on Xandros Networks either.
- mpeg and asx video files play, but wmv files are a bust, with both the default media player (which just hangs) and xine
- If I hit http://www.kxan.com with Mozilla, the whole browser shuts down. (Although it works with XFN's web browser)

So far, I give it 6/10, but this is only after 30 minutes of playing, so no flames please if I am wrong about anything ;)

Oh yeah ...
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 06:03 UTC

Few things I forgot to mention ...

- Xandros Networks only has a subset of what you will find in the apt sources list. Actually, the software selection is rather sparse at the moment compared to what all is available with Debian, but that will probably change over time.
- Somebody asked about configuring scanners - I saw nothing at all dealing with scanners. In fact, I saw no applets to add new hardware at all. (But again, this is only after a short time of playing, so that all may be there).
- The Deluxe version comes with 2 CDs, but never during the install was I ever prompted for the 2nd CD, nor asked if I wanted to install anything from it, and I selected the Complete install.
- Kernel 2.6 just came out .... grrrrrrrr. Had I known it was this close, I probably would've waited awhile to check out 2.6 before taking the Xandros plunge.

One last thing and I'm done ...
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 06:06 UTC

I noticed that in other distros running Open Office 1.03, I had to wait like 30+ seconds for it to load. But, OO 1.1 in Xandros loads up much, much faster. I didn't get to play with it though. I plan on throwing it a bunch of MS Office documents to test its compatabilities, and see what happens when you throw macros at it ;)

Darius
by Mario on Thu 18th Dec 2003 06:52 UTC

"Obviously, this was not my intention. I just noticed the whole security thing and wanted to share it with others. If I wanted to steal from the company, I would've gotten it from alt.binaries.warez.linux. (If it's not there yet, it will be soon.) "

How was it not your intention? If you had good intentions you wouldn't publically release this to a website getting thousands of visitors each day. You would privately tell Xandros through e-mail or ask them.

This Darius fellow is amazing
by Ashley on Thu 18th Dec 2003 06:53 UTC

Browser plugins subpar? No quicktime?

You are joking right. What do you think the codeweavers software is for? Just click on the codeweavers crossover app and it will install quicktime for you along with a whole bunch of other windows plugins.

First you illegally post links for download, then you rubish Xandros with some half-arse first look at their product.

With regards to Xandros Networks, you can enable any Debian software repository you wish. But I guess that would that require you to concentrate longer than 30 secs.

Since you are unfamiliar with Xandros, perhaps you should at least use it for one or two days, before criticising it. Otherwise you are not being fair to a product, that a lot of beta testers have liked very much. Until then, your 6/10 is meaningless.

And don't bother "throwing macros" at openoffice......grrrrr Save that for Microsoft office running under codeweavers.

Also
by Mario on Thu 18th Dec 2003 06:55 UTC

2.6 is out, so what? Does that really matter? Any solid distribution will need to test it and smoothly incorporate it which will take at least a month and currently it has not been tested enough.

Ashley
by Mario on Thu 18th Dec 2003 07:03 UTC

Don't bother, of course he doesn't have a real good first look. He said he barely spend 30 min with it, so I assume most of the stuff he said is wrong and due to lack of time.

I remember for example in XD1 that it had the best browser plugin support anywhere, quicktime, flash, java, etc. they all worked easily.

Re: Ashley
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 07:46 UTC

Browser plugins subpar? No quicktime?
You are joking right. What do you think the codeweavers software is for? Just click on the codeweavers crossover app and it will install quicktime for you along with a whole bunch of other windows plugins.


Ok, I've done that, and it seems to enable ActiveX support in Mozilla. That's a neat little trick, but what do you suggest for those people who are using the Standard Edition? The Xandros site says
Xandros Desktop OS Standard Edition does not include CodeWeavers CrossOver Office or Plugin so you are not able to run any Windows compatible applications on Xandros Desktop.

Yeah, that's not really telling the whole truth - they forgot the part about plugins being screwed without it also. And this still doesn't account for why the built-in RealPlayer plugin works some places and not others. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it, which I will certainly find out in time.

First you illegally post links for download

I posted links to ISOs they set up in such a manner that anybody who wanted to and knew the URL could download them with no authorization required - I did nothing illegal.

With regards to Xandros Networks, you can enable any Debian software repository you wish.

Yeah, and they also say in the users guide that doing so could break parts of Xandros and is not supported. Not that I wouldn't do it, but that's not exactly a glowing endorsement from the Xandros.

And don't bother "throwing macros" at openoffice......grrrrr Save that for Microsoft office running under codeweavers.

Using Windows programs in Linux is merely a part of what I'm doing - another part is trying to push these apps to see how compatable they really are. Kind of a voice of reason as opposed to people who say "Yeah, just install Open Office .. it makes a GREAT alternative to MS Office!" Yeah, well .. that's only half true. The real truth is, not in all cases! My goal is to poke and prod this distro like a lab rat. We're going to try installing tons of Windows software to see how much of it will go in (because I'm tired of people going on about how Crossover is supposed to be the cure for our 'windows-only' software needs), throwing all kinds of neat hardware devices at it, and see how it responds. We're going to install it in the middle of all kinds of Windows configurations and see how it handles various flavors of Windows on various partition types. We're going to try and get a good idea about who this distro is really ready for, and who it is not. The whole Openoffice/macro thing is just one of many tests to be performed.

Alex
by ealm on Thu 18th Dec 2003 12:28 UTC

Since you think the OSNews staff and contributors don't work hard enough, I suggest that you either a) contribute money directed for more spelling efforts or b) offer yourself for spell checking all OSNews material

v alex.
by Anonymous on Thu 18th Dec 2003 14:03 UTC
Question about GTK/Gnome apps in Xandros 2.0
by Uwe on Thu 18th Dec 2003 14:14 UTC

How do GTK/ Gnome apps (for example, Gimp, Evolution, Yahoo Messenger) look with Xandros 2.0? Does Xandros use a GTK theme similar to their Plastik KDE theme so that the desktop looks "unified" (like RedHat does with ther Bluecurve theme or Mandrake with their Galaxy)?

Uwe

Another question, about storage devices
by Uwe on Thu 18th Dec 2003 15:12 UTC

How does Xandros 2.0 handle removable storage devices like floppy drives or ZIP drives? Does it use an automounter so that handling removable discs is just like it is with Windows? And how do I use USB memory sticks with Xandros 2.0?

Uwe

Password protect a custom link?
by esd-dude on Thu 18th Dec 2003 15:19 UTC

I posted links to ISOs they set up in such a manner that anybody who wanted to and knew the URL could download them with no authorization required - I did nothing illegal.


So, Darius, what your saying is that if you would have received an email with a custom link AND a password, you would have considered this a much more secure alternative, because you now have to type in a password?? What stops someone from posting the URL along with the password? How does this make things any more secure? The custom URL *contains* the authentication information, to make your life easier.

nope
by HELL on Thu 18th Dec 2003 15:23 UTC

I didn't say they didn't work hard enough, but if you are going to do something at all, do it right.

And I guess you might be right on standard. But Xandros's strength is in the Deluxe version. They didn't even have a standard before.

Re: nope
by lefty on Thu 18th Dec 2003 15:43 UTC

Actually, Xandros did have a Standard version before.

Darius reminds of someone a friend told me about. One of the children in her class steals everything she can get her hands on, whether or not she wants it or needs it. Her rationale is that, if people are stupid enough to leave it where she can get it, that's their fault.

You can justify yourself all you want, but you'd go a lot further if you just admitted that you may not have used the best judgement when you posted the link. There are too many people with that "blame the victim" attitude.

Re:
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 16:20 UTC

So, Darius, what your saying is that if you would have received an email with a custom link AND a password, you would have considered this a much more secure alternative, because you now have to type in a password??

When I created an account there, they emailed me a username and password. Once the transaction was complete, they sent me the links. Why they did not user the username/password to authenticate the links is beynod me.
Even if the senario you mentioned had occured and the login and links were in the same email, at least they could've used the login info to set a limit of one login at a time. Hell, they could do that just the way it is now by not allowing simeltanous (sp) logins from multiple IP addresses, but they don't even do that.

Darius reminds of someone a friend told me about. One of the children in her class steals everything she can get her hands on

Ha! If you remember, I paid for my copy.

Her rationale is that, if people are stupid enough to leave it where she can get it, that's their fault.

It seems that is the way people look at MS and security - if there is a problem, just release the info to the public. Screw telling the vendor about it.

You can justify yourself all you want, but you'd go a lot further if you just admitted that you may not have used the best judgement when you posted the link.

Yeah, looking back on it, it probably was not one of my brightest moments ;)

RE: Another question, about storage devices
by Ashley on Thu 18th Dec 2003 16:21 UTC

Yes it all usb storage devices automounts and appears under xandros file managers, in much the same way it appears in explorer in win xp. It appears as a "removable drive" on the left panel. Other options their include "Home" directory, "Printers" "C:" "Windows Networks" etc.

Darius
by lefty on Thu 18th Dec 2003 16:46 UTC

Yeah, looking back on it, it probably was not one of my brightest moments ;)

Kudos to Darius for being big enough to admit a lapse in judgement. We've all had 'em.

re: Question about GTK/Gnome apps in Xandros 2.0
by pi on Thu 18th Dec 2003 18:18 UTC

I installed Gnumeric and Gaim (their version of gaim is horribly out of date) and Gnome apps look like crap. They didn't spend any time working on it at all. If you install gnome-control-center you can also install gtk themes and then fix this.

Re: dariu's excuses
by inflagranti on Thu 18th Dec 2003 18:56 UTC

""And, I suspect that they will at elast e-mail you if not disable your account"
Actually, they have done both. I just got a letter from Xandros (don't think it was fake) saying don't do that again, or else threatening me with legal action. Seems they want to blame me for their own stupidity - whatever."
Its not Xandros who blames you for their stupidity - its the other way round: you seem to blame Xandros that they gave you a chance to take illegal action on them which you couldn't resist. Its as a burglar blamed you for leaving your window open and therfore giving him the chance to break into your house.

"I honestly don't know what they were thinking. Did they honestly not think anyone would do that? Surely, if I hadn't, someone else would have."
The burglar then justifies his action by telling you that someon would had broken through that window anyway.

Your excuses are just plain stupid!

Hopefully get more later...
by kenk on Thu 18th Dec 2003 19:18 UTC

Not a very revealing review. Hopefully, we will get more later. I get the feeling that the focus of Xandros is their one-stop-shop file manager, and hardware detection. They are focusing on Windows integration, which is good, and have added neat features to their already great File Manager.

I wish they would hire a graphic artist! Wow, their desktop looks very dated! Hopefully, user's will be able to "spice" up the icons they have chosen. Maybe they could use some GPLed art from KDE-Look.org.

Just tried PCLinuxOS 2K4 - preview 4 last night for about an hour. It's a live CD. It's KDE desktop is beautiful. Best out-of the box eye candy I've seen. Even better than that, it detected all of my hardware correctly, and everything worked. Even my Wacom Graphire2 pen tablet in relative mode (with mouse), and absolute mode (pen). It works great with The GIMP! I won't try to install to hard drive yet since it's not a final release, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

RE: inflagranti
by B. Smith on Thu 18th Dec 2003 19:36 UTC

In all fairness, if Xandros did not specifically tell him not to share those links, he does at least have a defense. If it were in a real courtroom he cold validly claim simple ignorance and/or stupidity and actually have a possible "reasonable doubt" defense. You absolutely can't convict someone for failing to do something that they have not been told to do; and you can't convict them for doing something that they have not been told NOT to do.

Given the way it is distributed, there is a potential for confusion on the part of non-tech customers. At least, many of the non-tech people I know would have been confused, I am sure of that.

The whole issue of implied contracts is another matter. But software retailers have to realize that if you are going to regard an intangible stream of electrons as physical property, you must allow for atypical methods of safeguarding it.

Barry

I have not had a chance yet to review Xandros 2.0, but I've had a copy of previous versions of Xandros and I've been consistently impressed with their quality, excellent documentation, stability, and interoperability with Windows software. If this release is as stable as the earlier versions, then it has an excellent chance of being successful.

re: bsmith's post
by xandros user on Thu 18th Dec 2003 21:42 UTC

"In all fairness, if Xandros did not specifically tell him not to share those links, he does at least have a defense. If it were in a real courtroom he cold validly claim simple ignorance and/or stupidity and actually have a possible "reasonable doubt" defense."

Actually no, that's not true. The post had a clear malicious intent, and the user demonstated utter contempt for xandros' policies and EULA.

I could go on, but I don't think you'd understand.

Re: xandros user
by Darius on Thu 18th Dec 2003 22:40 UTC

Actually no, that's not true. The post had a clear malicious intent, and the user demonstated utter contempt for xandros' policies and EULA.

See, that's the whole thing ... there was no EULA, at least not until you actually install the software. On the website and email, it was just 'Pay us $90, now here's the links.'

As for the whole legality, I wonder who they would try to go after - me or whoever did the downloading (if anyone)?
Furthermore, if you upload files on a website and set the permissions such that anyone could get access to them, could you then sue somebody for actually downloading them?

groklaw
by xandros user on Thu 18th Dec 2003 22:53 UTC

it would probably be an interesting case study for the fine folks over at groklaw.....

Re: Darius
by RedSkies on Thu 18th Dec 2003 23:31 UTC

"Yeah, looking back on it, it probably was not one of my brightest moments ;) "

Jesus, you people are making a big deal out of nothing. Get off his case already.

And as for you Darius
by RedSkies on Thu 18th Dec 2003 23:37 UTC

Next time make it Mandrake PowerPack or Suse Professional instead ;)

First Impressions on Xandros 2.0 SE
by Sergey on Fri 19th Dec 2003 00:27 UTC

The more I read your comments the more I think that my next OS will still be Windows...

Re: Sergey
by Darius on Fri 19th Dec 2003 01:49 UTC

The more I read your comments the more I think that my next OS will still be Windows...

That may be for the best because it seems at the moment this distro is merely one or two notches above the headache that has been Linux in the past.

Take the Xandros Networks thing for example. When you start it up, you've got a whopping 3 Internet applications in which to choose from. (You'd think that even with a new release of the OS, they'd have a little more to choose from.)
So, you can change your source to include 'Debian unsupported site' and after you choose that and update the list, you see that you still only have 3 Internet applications listed. It isn't until you switch from Simple view to Expert view do the floodgates open up, and then everything is there. However, there are some problems with this:

1. The nice organization of app categories you had in the simple view disappears and is replaced with the standard "here is a list of 80,000 packages to choose from" kind of thing. Why can't we have the nice organization from the Simple View with a good selection of apps to choose from in each category?
2. Even on the unsupported site, you're not always getting the newest stable versions of apps. For example, when I downloaded Firebird, I got 0.6.1 instead of 0.7. Yeah, I know you can enter a url and choose a 'custom source', but really ... if I wanted to do that shit, I would be using stock Debian. 0.7 has been out for what, over a month now? This is a major Internet app that should've been added by now.
3. Would it really be so hard to implement a mechanism by which all apps you install actually place a f**king ashortcut icons in the Launch menu? I"ve noticed that some apps do (Knotes), and other apps (probably the ones you're getting from the Debian source) don't (Mozilla, Pan, etc). For the ones that don't, I have to go searching for the executable and do the shortcut manually. Not a particularly hard task, but more of a pain in the ass than it needs to be.
4. One of the sources you can select from on Xandros Networks is the the application CD #2 (Deluxe version only), except that I can't install anything off the second CD ... just complains about broken packages and such, and (in some cases) it can't find the CD-ROM, even though I can open it in Xandros File Manager and look through the files, and copy it to the hard drive. Trying to install the .deb files from the hard drive produces the same kinds of errors.
5. Same sort of errors as mentioned above when trying to download OS updates directly from Xnadros.

I don't mean to sound too critical here, but this is just not what I was expected, considering all the hype that Xandros 2.0 got. It's not unusable, but it's far from optimal at this point.

PS ....
by Darius on Fri 19th Dec 2003 02:04 UTC

As a side note, once I found out that the version of Firebird I had installed was 0.6.1, I went back into XN and uninstalled it. Clicking on the icon in XN said it's not installed. Running 'mozilla-firebird' from the run dialog says it can't find file, when that used to work when it was installed.
So now when I click on any of the icons that used to run mozilla or type 'mozilla' from the run dialog, I get Mozilla Firebird, and none of the menus work at all - NICE!!!

Maybe I'll get them to show me how that magic trick works, sometime when I have more patience to deal with this shit.

RE: xandros user
by Anonymous on Fri 19th Dec 2003 02:23 UTC

"I could go on, but I don't think you'd understand."

You are probably correct. I am readly confused and more than a little ignorant. I sit corrected.

Barry

IMPRESSIVE
by Chongo on Fri 19th Dec 2003 21:19 UTC

I have to say, I have been immensely impressed with the progress Xandros have been making in 2.0. I've been beta testing for them, and their attention to detail, and focus on 'finishing' and 'polishing' open source software, really makes me admire their ethos, and their distribution. As a long term Windows user, I myself am not totally ready to make the big switch yet, as I'm too tied into 'pro' apps like Photoshop, Premiere, Sound Forge and the like. I definitely want to install it on my laptop though, assuming I can find out how to fix my long standing problem with the SIS630 graphics controller in Linux.