Linked by Eugenia Loli on Mon 29th Dec 2003 17:44 UTC
Morphos Amiga.org reports that bplan GmbH announced, the version of the Open Firmware shipped with the Pegasos II is faulty: after changes made by "setenv" the system does not boot anymore. There is also a small fix for a broken MorphOS 1.4 install script.
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Fast response
by Al Hartman on Mon 29th Dec 2003 18:08 UTC

Seems promising that the fix was released quickly.

I'm wanting to build a PPC system to play with. I have most of the parts already.

I'm just deciding between the Pegasos II board and the AmigaOne board.

I'm leaning towards the AmigaOne because it will run the official AmigaOS 4.0, and that may never be ported to the Pegasos II.

But the pricing of the Pegasos II board is a little more attractive.

I'm in no hurry, and prices may come down in the future.

Amgia on Apple/Pegasos
by Brad on Mon 29th Dec 2003 18:15 UTC

Hopefully someday we might be able to run the AmigaOS 4 on any PPC machine with the help of MacOnLinux. If it can run MacOS X on AmigaOne's and the Pegasos, why couldnt it run the AmigaOS on Pegasos and Apple hardware (under linux, of course) with a little development work?

Re: Al
by Nate Downes on Mon 29th Dec 2003 18:23 UTC

What does OS4 offer that MorphOS does not?

Noone has yet answered me this other than to say that one is official, and one is not.

v mm...
by Anonymous on Mon 29th Dec 2003 18:48 UTC
responses
by Anonymous on Mon 29th Dec 2003 18:58 UTC

how about compatability with applications written for 'Amiga" platform that take advantage of the newer libraries and calls and functionalities. MorphOS, even on a feature for feature comparison, cannot claim to be able to run whatever software will come out for the Amiga platform in the future. Without support for the extensive name recognition, development interest just isn't there. I have my doubts the name will carry it to sustainability anyway, but I'm happy they are trying.

In the end, stop trying to do a pepsi challenge with it. People will rally behind what they have purchased. If you want to support MorphOS, then get some applications written for it or write some killer documentation, or betatest or something more tangible than lurking around in messageboards.

as far as the MacOnLinux used to port AmigaOS to pegasos, its not necessary. the solution is not so difficult technically, it just wouldn't be commercially feasible due to legal liabilities. thanks to the DMCA, even a friendly hacker cannot spread the word on how it can/should be done without being liable, even without profitting. luckily, the pegasos uses an open firmware model that is open to patches.

v @Anonymous
by oGALAXYo on Mon 29th Dec 2003 19:01 UTC
Re: AOS4 vs MorphOS
by Al Hartman on Mon 29th Dec 2003 20:27 UTC

>> What does OS4 offer that MorphOS does not? <<

>> Noone has yet answered me this other than to say that one is official, and one is not. <<

You've pretty much answered your own question. That and the reply after your post has it nailed.

I think the price of the Pegasos II is attractive, and if I were going to be running a PPC Linux, it would be fine.

But that it won't run AOS 4.0 at any time (as far as we know) means I will be out on a limb for new applications.

MorphOS could be developed to be binary compatible with AOS 4.0. That sure is possible. But I don't think I want to stake that much money on a remote possibility.

I can wait.

Re: Al
by Nate Downes on Mon 29th Dec 2003 23:46 UTC

Actually, I'd list AOS4 as out on a limb for new applications, as new applications are already shipping for MOS, while there are few announced or AOS4 at this time.

RE: A1
by Anonymous on Tue 30th Dec 2003 00:32 UTC

@ Nate Downes

Many tltles have been announced for Aos4 over the year.
But as always you have shown to have a very short selective memory.

Re: Re: A1
by JoŽl EHRET on Tue 30th Dec 2003 01:21 UTC

@ Anonymous (IP: ---.at) - Posted on 2003-12-30 00:32:36

"Announced" is the key word...

Pegasos and AmigaONE..
by Fed on Tue 30th Dec 2003 02:13 UTC

For god sakes people. Pegasos and AmigaONE, MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 are 2 completely different things. Both share compatability of 680x0 AmigaOS applications, but other than that, they arae 2 diffent things.

The way everyone compares them like they are making the choice of an AMD or Intel processor on the x86 side is false. MorphOS and Pegasos is a completely new platform that will eventually making either greater leaps away from the AmigaOS. Its compatability with the old Amigas is just to try and gain some customers. AmigaOS and AmigaONE is the continuation of the cvore AmigaOS and are aimerd towards the old uesers, or towards peoople looking for a lean OS.

They are kinda like Windows and Linux. Windows runs its applications. Linux runs its won applications and some windows ones wtih extra software. But that compatability isnt the sole reason to purchase the system. If someone had the money, it would be best to own both systems, since they are 2 different things, both with weakness and strengths.

AmigaOS vs MorphOS
by Al Hartman on Tue 30th Dec 2003 02:55 UTC

I agree.

I don't understand all the animosity between the two platforms...

The market is too small to do this with for either.

Rather than bash each other, each camp should make it's product compelling.

In the realm of Amiga, I'd much rather go with Amiga, Inc. and AOS 4.0, than MorphOS. Given how things like this have gone in the past, that's where the smart money ought to go.

I'll get to run MorphOS (pieces of it anyway) via the AROS project.

And who knows, maybe someday I WILL buy a Pegasos and run MorphOS. It sure does look interesting. But I've only got a certain amount of money to invest in a "play" computer, and I'm going to invest it well.

I've already got $50.00 into AOS 4.0, and it'd be a shame to throw it away.

RE: Re: Al
by Rodney Mcdonell on Tue 30th Dec 2003 03:09 UTC

I thought you would have known this already, why bother asking and just state? They dont offer anything over each other one would have thought except that AmigaOS is well.. AmigaOS and thats what everbody remembers. If anything is going to be closer to the real thing, it'll be AmigaOS - That is, thats most likly the reasoning most people go through, thats not a fact, just what people come to when they think about it. Which one will be more like AmigaOS? MorphOS or AmigaOS? I think thats what most people are thinking. But who cares anyway? Most people will end up buying the pegasos not being of morphos but because of linux and its price.

RE: A1
by Anonymous on Tue 30th Dec 2003 06:43 UTC

"But who cares anyway? Most people will end up buying the pegasos not being of morphos but because of linux and its price."

I would not say Linux is a factor see as both Amigaone & pegasos have been running linux for a long time as fare as price goes that has yet to be seen.

Re: Al
by Fabio Alemagna on Tue 30th Dec 2003 09:51 UTC

> But that it won't run AOS 4.0 at any time (as far as we
> know) means I will be out on a limb for new applications.

Actually, so far I've seen about... uh... 2 or 3 native applications for AOS4 _announced_, whilst there are tens of native applications for MOS already available. The "Amiga" name is worth zilch nowadays.

@ Fabio
by hnl_dk on Tue 30th Dec 2003 10:20 UTC

>> But that it won't run AOS 4.0 at any time (as far as we
>> know) means I will be out on a limb for new applications.
>
>Actually, so far I've seen about... uh... 2 or 3 native >applications for AOS4 _announced_, whilst there are tens of >native applications for MOS already available. The "Amiga" >name is worth zilch nowadays.

Hi' Fabio ... hope your not just trolling!
There has been announced "alot" more than 2 or 3 native AmigaOS4 application (if you think about the niche factor - not many users) ... Here is a list @ Amiga Wiki
http://yourdreamnet.co.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/OS4_Applications

Hope it helps ...
Best regards,
Henning Nielsen Lund

People never learn and Amigans learn the least...
by LongTimeAmigan on Tue 30th Dec 2003 12:11 UTC

Once both machines are side to side, it's very stupid do discard one or the other just in base of sentimental assumptions related to the "Mythical Factor" of the word "Amiga".

Yes, Amiga was the name of a really, really good computer. But that was long ago.

The year is 2003-4, and what intelligent people do before expending a lot of money in a product: is to compare them before buying!

Arguments like "Official or not official" meant nothing when we are talking about how much? 5, 10 apps???

For god's sake! Think once in your lives, it is ok to say: ?I?m not sure which one to buy? ?I will wait and see?.

Re: Re: Al
by Al Hartman on Tue 30th Dec 2003 14:29 UTC

>> Actually, so far I've seen about... uh... 2 or 3 native applications for AOS4 _announced_, whilst there are tens of native applications for MOS already available. The "Amiga" name is worth zilch nowadays. <<

How much have you been looking?

There's more apps for AOS4 then that just coming from Hyperion itself...

And MorphOS does has the benefit of having been released and in a 1.4.x version. AOS 4.0 is really a 1.0 release.

And it will only become available to developers to develop for in the next few weeks.

MorphOS is not a bad OS. It looks quite nice. But, I wouldn't crow too loudly right now. Once AOS 4 is in release, it will become obvious that AOS will win the battle because of the name, the marketing push, and the vendor support.

MorphOS may be technically superior. May be quite nice.

That didn't help BeOS, OS/2 and other technically superior OSes that didn't make it.

If money were no object for me, I'd have a Peg II. It looks like a nice board, and MorphOS looks good.

But I only have enough money to make one shot at this. And my shot is going to be for an AmigaONE and AOS 4.

I'll pay more for that. But, I'll get more as well.

re:
by Anonymous on Tue 30th Dec 2003 18:29 UTC

:MorphOS is not a bad OS. It looks quite nice. But, I wouldn't crow too loudly right now. Once AOS 4 is in release, it will become obvious that AOS will win the battle because of the name, the marketing push, and the vendor support.

Uhh both AOS and MorphOS ars insignifigant insects to gateszilla and his Windows. Windows has the name, the marketing push and vendor support. The AOS vs MorphOS battle is futile, the real battle is if any will be able to surive in a Windows world which I hate to say it is.

MorphOS
by bbrv on Tue 30th Dec 2003 20:36 UTC

MorphOS and the Pegasos II are about to venture far beyond the former Amiga market. Stay tuned!

As for OS4 we wish them the best and look forward to the Beta release in 2004. Until the it is pointless to speak about an OS (or applications for it) that do not even exist. When it comes out we will do what we can to support Amiga on the Pegasos, as we do today with AmigaOS 3.x and as we are ready to do with AmigaDE.

Happy New Year!

R&B

re: re:
by Al Hartman on Tue 30th Dec 2003 20:39 UTC

>> Uhh both AOS and MorphOS ars insignifigant insects to gateszilla and his Windows. Windows has the name, the marketing push and vendor support. The AOS vs MorphOS battle is futile, the real battle is if any will be able to surive in a Windows world which I hate to say it is. <<

That isn't the point.

There certainly is plenty of room for another OS to carve out a niche.

Hey... OS/2 is still being sold and supported (eComCenter).

And AmigaOS has LOTS of fans out there. Some think MorphOS is the future of AmigaOS, and others think AmigaOS 4.0 is...

The idea isn't to BEAT Windows. Just to provide an alternative.

But, to take your idea and run with it...

It's stupid for AmigaOS and MorphOS to try to convert each others users. That pool of potential customers is WAY too small to matter for survival of either platform.

Each has to lure previous Amiga Owners and present owners who haven't yet decided on either platform AND be compelling to people in the PC and Mac world who would be attracted to what they have to offer.

One doesn't have to give up their Mac or PC to own an Amiga or run AmigaOS/MorphOS...

It's not an either/or choice.

I own a Palm AND a Dell Axim. It's not either/or.

I also own BeOS. I didn't have to kill all my other systems to do that.

The game here is to be compelling and attractive to users, NOT to beat Windows or even take a significant portion of it's userbase.

re:
by Anonymous on Tue 30th Dec 2003 21:23 UTC

:The idea isn't to BEAT Windows. Just to provide an alternative.

I never said anything about beating Windows, I said survive.

I'm just saying it is the dark age of the computer industry we went from a time when you had Acorn,Commodore,Apple,Atari and others providing people with choice to now wintels are so dominant people just asume everyone uses them. Most of the average comnputer users out there never even heard of Acorn Computers and only Amiga they know of is the A500.

re: re:
by Al Hartman on Tue 30th Dec 2003 23:31 UTC

And those people aren't the target for new Amiga's.

These machines will also make PowerPC Linux Boxes more available. So they will be selling into three markets.

AmigaOS Users
MorphOS Users
PowerPC Linux Users

They will survive quite well.

And, I bet it won't take long for someone to make something lik XPostFacto to get MacOS X or Darwin to run on them...

RE:
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 02:23 UTC

As a former Amigan (I sold my 4000 in 1997) and who was involved in the Amy demo scene, I've been recently browsing the various Amiga/MOS forums, following this debate with interest. I didn't even know about the Peg until about 3 months ago...

So, from an outsider's perspective this is how the situation appears to me. The so-called true Amiga community is a shadow of it's former self. The Amiga community was once dynamic and innovative. I'd noticed as the time drew near to sell my Amy, and as technology elsewhere progressed in leaps and bounds, the 'active' members of the Amiga community were departing in droves, leaving only the evangelists who for the most part contributed nothing. They were the ones who wou7ld bleat inanely about the Amiga and clearly liked the sense of belonging to a 'community' by the virtue of owning one.

Other than the 'official' name, which seems to be owned by a bunch of crooks anyway in Ainc (nothing has changed in that regard from the C= days ;) ), The AOne/OS4 combo bears little relation to the Amiga of old, nor does the community. Sorry, not trolling but it seems rather sad and pathetic.

I'm interested in the Pes/MOS combo, because there appears to be a new platform emerging, with a forward looking, open and active community, and great support from the developer, Genesi. Im' going to wait a little longer before i commit myself to a Peg but I'm impressed so far. Besides, I wouldn't by virtue of being a concept artist in the games industry and requiring Photoshop and Painter, ditch my PC outright. I simply can't afford to, yet.

The evangalists for the Amy have completely misunderstood imho. The the Peg/MOS combo isn't an Amiga wannabee. It's going in a completely new direction, forming a new community. In that sense, like BeOS, linux, and the vavious other small, innovative communities centred out there, its the true inheritor of the Amiga spirit, more so than what I see happening in the insular Amiga community of today.

My two cents...

Re: Unit
by Nate Downes on Wed 31st Dec 2003 03:01 UTC

Depending on your graphics needs, there are MorphOS graphics packages available. My personal favorite being ImageFX which can be found at http://www.novadesign.com and the cost is quite reasonable.

Re: Nate
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 03:48 UTC

Thanks Nate for the info. When I had an Amiga I owned original copies of ImageFX, Brilliance, and Personal Paint. They were quite decent packages and its good to hear that ImageFX at least persists, although it struggled somewhat on my 040/25. I'm sure it wouldn't be the case on a Peg. I can't recall whether ImageFX had PhotoShop style layers, but I do remember that is was geared towards image manipulation and it's paint/darwing tools were practically non-existent when compared to PShop and certainly to Painter.

That being said I'm not seeking replacements for PShop and Painter. I would continue to use my PC for that purpose until ideally at least I could run MacOnLinux or OSX natively whereby I could get access to these packages all on on system.

This is completely off topic, but does anyone know if a Intuos2 Wacom Tablet will work under MOS? There is a package called PaintFX on MOS is that correct? Thoughts?

Thanks again Nate...

ImageFX
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 04:03 UTC

I stand corrected. It does indeed have the necessary natural media drawing tools, layers, and alpha channel support. And there's now an MOS native version. It may serve as a replacement for PShop at least. ;) Now to find a worthy replacement for Painter...


Thanks again.

v RE:
by RE: on Wed 31st Dec 2003 09:24 UTC
v RE: Unit
by Anonymous on Wed 31st Dec 2003 09:32 UTC
MorphOS being a "new platform"
by anonymous on Wed 31st Dec 2003 09:40 UTC

@unit,

I disagree with your statement that MorphOS is a new platform. In it's present state it's a re-implementation of the Amiga OS. It's like a Rolex from a street vendor, looks shiny and pretty but the guts are nothing special. Atleast a quick glance on Morphos.net there is no information about the core of MOS, just information about what libraries where fixed or updated. I've yet to see good reason for using Quark over Mach or Linux. MOS/Quark lists some excellent goals but details are sketchy on when they will be added.

Be Inc attempted to design and release a new platform that was actually new. Thus far MorphOS has succeded in providing binary compatability with Amiga 3.1. But I wonder why they would pick the Amiga of all the platforms? Take the MOS feature set and add Windows compatability or even linux compatability and you would have a much more interesting product.

Cowardly Anonymous


Re: pathetic...
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 09:47 UTC

Surprising, here they are, out of the woodwork again. Any criticism is lambasted with accusations of trolling. So predictible, and precisely why i sold my Amiga (the if you're not with us, you're against us mentality)

As I said I'm speaking as an outsider reflecting on how the amiga community has degenerated into a reactionary insular and almost cultist group, and you've proven my piint exactly. If I'd spoken out and criticised the MorphOS community in the sanme fashion I seriously doubtyou would have come to its defence, which demonstrates your blinkered bias, not mine.

If there is a criticism i can make of the MorphOS community is that there are some individuals who troll as much as those in the Amiga community. As far as I'm concerned, and I said this in my original post, that community, other than the 64k emulation has nothing to do with the shell that once was the Amiga and should disassociate itself with it entirely.

And precisiely what are you pointing out to me on ANN?

And does, browsing moobunny give you sleepless night Amonyonous. My god theye are people out there who don't think we Amigans are lovable and huggable, for that the AOne/OS4 and Ainc are the 2nd coming.

Grow up and get a grip...i suggest you might want to get a life while you're at it, it's only a friggin' computer!

Re: Cowardly,
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 10:03 UTC

First, apologies for the typos and grammatical errors of my previous post, not the sentiment.

@Cowardly. I don't entirely disagree with you, but I was reflecting on where MorphOS is potentially going once it breaks free of all associationns with the Amiga, rather than where it stands today. I entirely respect anyone's choice to use AmigaOS as implemented by Hyperion so long as that choice isn't founded on idiotic evangelism. That goes for any system, which is im part, why I've steered clear of Macs

I've used BEOs for a time, and hope to return to it once the Peg port is completed. Also I've been pondering the switch to Linux for some time, and it may turn out that if MorphOS goes nowhere (if I'd said AmigaOS goes nowhere I'd be accused of trolling) then at least I have an interesting and relatively affordable PPC system, which runs these OS's. and if Pshop is ported to Linux, which is a real possibility in the long run, given it's traction, I'd be a happy chappy. If the Amiga taught me anyone, it's to be patient. I can indeed wait....

re prev post...
by unit on Wed 31st Dec 2003 10:27 UTC

taught me anything, not anyone...i've never been able to type ;) ...

Re: Re: Cowardly,
by Al Hartman on Wed 31st Dec 2003 13:58 UTC

A Peg port of BeoS?

How would one do that? You can't get the kernal sources. Palm won't release them.

I would be VERY interested in a Peg port of BeOS. But, I think we'd be more likely to see a Peg port of OpenBeOS or one of the other Be clones.

I've heard that AROS is being ported to the Peg. At least, that's what they say on their site.

Re: Unit
by Nate Downes on Wed 31st Dec 2003 14:33 UTC

ioSpirit's fxPaint is a painting program, but I've not delt with it much. A free copy of the lite version comes with the Superbundle, along with ImageFX Lite.

Of course I'm waiting for Papyrus Office, so I don't need to boot up Linux anymore. 8)

BeOS
by unit on Thu 1st Jan 2004 06:17 UTC

@Al Hartman

:) Sorry i read somewhere there was a port of BeOS underway for the Peg. Maybe it is indeed OpenBeOS? I'm not familiar with what's been happening with BeOS or the open source variants of late. Can someone possibly clarify? I read it someewhere but can't seem to find the info once again...

@Nate

Well I'll certainly get the Superbundle and upgrade the packages I find useful...

Thanks again guys....oh and Happy New Year!

Regarding BeOS
by Nate Downes on Thu 1st Jan 2004 13:33 UTC

The BeOS port to Pegasos is, indeed, OpenBeOS.

This is looking to be an exciting year for us, the first of many.