Today we host a long and interesting interview with President & COO of Lindows.com, Kevin Carmony. We discuss about the desktop, the OSS community, Microsoft, LindowsOS 5 and much more. More over, just for the next couple of days, Lindows.com offers the LindowsOS Developer Edition 4.5 for free to the OSNews readers! Read more for details on how to use the OSNews text coupon and download this digital version of LindowsOS free of charge.
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First, great interview, cant wait for 5.0!
Im a lifetime member, the choicepc thing, but I cant see the development iso in my downloads over at lindows.com..
Should I bother to dowsload it for free now?
Sure, go ahead. If it doesn't show up in your special cart, use the text coupon to download it from the normal cart.
This interview seems to put Lindows pretty much in a good light, actually to the point one can understand their position. I guess to be fair it seems theyve created a good desktop distribution of Debian Linux. Still though I think he was a little dimisive about competition from at least Xandros. Though I dont know of Xandros being on OEM it doesnt appear to be a good desktop distribution as well. As far as I go, I dont like making computers on the cheap ;-) so I wouldnt opt for the OEMs if I were to get Lindows, though I'll wait to see the reviews of their 5 version first.
And just how much market share do you think Xandros have? 0,1%?
Just like Kevin says, the real market lies not within the existing Linux community - not for a product like Lindows.com.
/ealm
LindowsOS Lifetime member since 2 days ago 
You need a credit card to get the free download and I don't have one. So much for that.
I got excited there for about 3 minutes.
Good to see Lindows communicating with the people. I don't know much about Lindows, though we are selling it, and I think Germany will stay SuSE-country.But: It is good to see people concentrating on the desktop, there are not many choices for real beginners. And I think that is the point: the time is now, where you don't necessarily come from Windows to Linux but can grow up with a Linux Environment from the Beginning. If my parents would switch to Linux, there must be a good and easy distribution: Easy to set up, easy to install applications, easy to use etc.If Lindows can provide this: Very good.
Linux needs normal users. We actually have enough freaks.
Let the flaming begin ;-)
>You need a credit card to get the free download and I don't have one
It didn't ask me for a credit card...
Yea very fulfilling interview. Lindows.com has my full support even though my main OS is Windows XP with a full firewall + anti virus software running non-stop 
but I always look forward to switching to a Linux based OS. At the moment I keep an eye on LindowsOS and XandrOS. I may wait until LindowsOS 5.0 comes out. Good luck to both of them.
It asks for a credit card no for the CNR, first 15 days it's free after that you'll have to pay. So you could evaluate Lindows OS for free for 15 days.
>It didn't ask me for a credit card...
I had to make an account. I guess that's what required the credit card number. All I had to do was hit cancel and I went back to my cart.
Everything is fine now. Wish me luck, I'm on 56k.
I can only recommend the ChoicePC deal. For $100 you get every version of LindowsOS + Click n Run for all of your/Lindows lifetime. It's the same price as 5.0 + 1 year of CnR so go figure...
I registered @ their site but it asks me for my credit card number. The problem is that don't have one Eugenia, how did you downloaded lindows?
Go here: https://shop.lindows.com/shopping/shopping_coupon_redemption.php
Type "IReadOSNews" in the coupon code field.
The reason you people missed this is since you didn't read the check-out page carefully enough
When you get to that screen just click My Products at the top and it will take you to the download page.
Dougie
Good interview,
It was good to see inside the mind of a Lindows guy. I wont be giving up SuSE as my Linux distribution, not ever. But, it did give me a better understanding of Lindows.com.
i selected "My Products / CD Downloads / LindowsOS 4.5 Developers Installation CD"
is this correct? it's 544.01 MB big
I'm downloading the iso right now, thanks to Kevin & Eugenia for giving me this chance. =)
and there are multiple products listed for download, so i am wondering if i'm in the right place since someone above said it would take you right to the download page
I must admit, I held alot of misconceptions about Lindows. I frankly never was very interested in even looking into it.
Also, I certainly appreciated the candidness, the lack of market-speak, and the free download. I probably never would have tried Lindows out before, but now Im definatly going to give it a go on one of my boxes. Who knows, maybe I'll like it after all.
I'll at least have some fun finding out.
Wow, great interview. I was skeptical about Lindows before, but this does a lot to win me over. For example, it convinced me that Lindows.com has healthy long-term plans and a lot of energy, meaning it's probably worth supporting. Gonna download that ISO now.
I am downloading it right now. I am a big debian fan (writing this from debian unstable bootstrapped from a knoppix cd), and I always wanted to try lindows.
But since I have no real need for it it would be hard to justify spending 60$. But since they seem to support my favorite desktop environment (KDE) and my favorite file system (Reiser) financially, I just might buy a copy for my mother if I like it.
Thanks for the OSNews coupon. Will be good to see your OS in action. BTW - Ever thought of doing a Live CD and marketing it in a cool way?
IMO the Lindows live-CD won't be that great .
What really makes Lindows shine is it's CNR but the liveCD doesn't have it.
If this thing works I'll consider the ChoicePC thing; France still has a hundred vacancies. That's a pretty damn good deal
:)
that's a joke, right...?!
i nearly fell out of my chair when i read that while getting my free copy. i remembered something around $5 per month (or was that some sort of "light" - membership, anyways, i was informed during the process just of the regular membership) which would be ok given the prices of red hat and sun (but suse is still way cheaper), but $15...sorry, this is simply ridiculous (especially if you consider that win xp i delivered with every computer and you've payed maybe $50 for it)!
btw, is c&r membership needed for access to bugfixes/small updates?
I don't know from where you've got that.
CnR costs $50/year or $5/month:
https://shop.lindows.com/member/lindows_home_member_step1.php
Of course you can still get the lifetime of both CnR and all LindowsOS'es for $100! (http://www.choicepc.com)
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to try Lindows. I'm wondering, when I go to My Products -> CD Downloads it seems that I can download all the CD, not only the Developers one ?
I was just about to install NetBSD to my testbox but now I think I'll test drive Lindows for a couple of days first, thanks to your generous offer.
I've given to understand that Lindows defaults to KDE desktop. I'd like to see a company like Lindows to pick some light-weight window manager (XFCE, WindowMaker, Fluxbox) and turn it into a polished desktop. Now, that would be something I would (almost) be ready to pay for.
BTW, does anyone know a GNU/Linux distro that uses WindowMaker as the default window manager?
Aye.. I'm tilted in favour towards the ChoicePC thingy. Esp. that I'm still so young 
"I don't know from where you've got that."
http://shop.lindows.com/user/mylindows_welcome.php
quote:
[...]
Secure your FREE Trial Now!
To make sure that we have the correct billing information on file for charges incurred beyond your trial time, please click on the Sign Me Up button below and choose a payment method.
You will authorize Lindows.com to debit your account for any charges incurred in excess of your free trial period.
Remember! Your first 15 days are FREE!
You won't be charged the monthly $14.95 membership fee during your trial time! And, you can cancel at anytime.
unquote
afterwards, you're supposed to give your billing-information for c&r which suggests that you have to give it before you can download lindowsos which - supposed you're clever enough to look for and chose the download-category at the left side of the screen which many users (especially unexperienced) might not - is _not_ the case!
leaves a _very_ bitter taste, i must say...
This interview really clears up some important points. As lifetimemember (beside my Xandros V2 I have to admit that your statements form a more detailed look towards LindowsOS.
But I have to disagree with that "long-term"-issue about beeing "root" as "normal user". In your answers you forget that beeing a "normal" users will prevent you for doing "stupid faults" like deleting everything form "/" in konqueror or doing a capital fault while learning some things in a console window (rm -rf ....
So YES - TODAY its very unlikly that a LindowsOS-user as root will suffer form an "outside"-attack (this will maybe change very fast when Linux will have to deal with virus, hoax and worms in the mid-near future)
BUT - beeing "root" is a hudge security hole if the "administrator" itself is the "average user" (PEBCAC
After reading this, as far as i'm concerned, any GNU/Linux user who disparages Lindows can go to heck. They're giving back to the community (more so than many GNU/Linux companies), promoting GNU/Linux positively and helping make advancements in GNU/Linux on the desktop.
I'm not a Lindows user, but looking at the next release, Kernel 2.6, KDE 3.2 - it looks fantastic and those who use Lindows seem to be in for a definite treat.
I think these Lindows and Xandros guys are being too cute by half, when they claim that they compete against m'soft and not eachother.
example:
- lindows released 4.5 (minor version update) on the exact same day as xandros released their major version release 2.0
- for a while when u searched "lindows" at google, a xandros google ad would appear on the right.
- lindows has hired ex-xandros developers
no competition? its literally cut throat. both excellent distros and nice interview!
Well I'm kinda surprised it had to take a big interview like this to clear some of these issues up, ie. hasn't it been known for a while now that Lindows doesn't make users root by default?
Anyways, I liked that analogy about the crossection and linux security.. Innovation has always been the driving force of real successfull companies and we need more thinking like that in the Linux world (too many distro's just copy paste imho).
Nice long interview, good read. Thumbs up for the free download, very nice gesture!
I don't know whether Kevin Carmona will read this, but I hope he does. One of the biggest problems that new Linux users face is the lack of standard and easy-to-follow manuals to teach them how to use the operating system.
If you walk into any major bookstore, you wil find hundreds of books on how to use Microsoft Office or Microsoft XP. This actually does lower the cost of ownership of a product by reassuring the user that there will be a knowledge pool from which she can draw, if she ever needs it.
While Usenet and the linux documentation project are great, professionally written and edited documentation is needed. Red Hat's Linux Bible books were a good start, but not generic enough to apply fully to other distributions, and I presume those will be discontinued after Red Hat extricated itself from the retail market.
The task of writing a good generic book for desktop users is complicated by the fact that each Linux distribution creates its own menu structure, and in the case of Lindows, its own nomenclature for menus. Additonally, the directory layout is not uniform so that RedHat, Debian and Mandrake place their init scripts in one place while Suse and Slackware place them in a different one.
I happen to agree with you that Linux distributions can only grow significantly by taking marketshare from Microsoft, rather than from each other. Based on this assessment, what is preventing closer cooperation with the other major distributions to resolve some of the problems I mentioned?
Specifically, I believe if the menu lay-out options were unified, then a generic book could be written with specific chapters, addressing the configuration tools of each distribution. Doing tech support becomes significantly easier when a given menu option can be expected at a defined location.
BTW, great interview and thanks for the download.
We made this shift almost two years ago, but it's funny how long it takes to get past the first thing someone hears about you. I guess it's true what they say about first impressions, they're very hard to shake.
Not merely first impressions. Most people disregard the OS and .com ending of names. Once that happen, there is only one typological difference with Windows. Even if people imagine it as Lindows.com and LindowsOS instead of Lindows, Lindows guys have to be honest with themselves - why Lindows? There are hundreds of possible better names - why a name that would forever be associated with a competitor's product?
And when you no longer what to keep the company associated with your competitor's product, keeping the name seems a little dumb. Face it, Lindows is new, it is easier to change brand names today than much later on when the need to shrug off its Windows connection grows much bigger.
Considering we're not profitable and lose money each month, I'm very happy with the amount of support we give to open source projects.
If by two years my company isn't breaking even, I wouldn't be happy in throwing around money on things my potential competitors can and possibly will use. It makes amazingly little sense. If you are making much money, I can relate. But how does KDE-look.org and KDE-app.org benefit Lindows? Little. All good themes end up in KDE's CVS anyway.
So, Linux also needs marketing, distribution, education, leadership, vision, and so on. I'd like to think Lindows.com is doing a great deal in this area.
I would think not. Linux wouldn't win by getting unto Walmart.com. Where the money comes is from the corporate market, and quite frankly, LindowsOS isn't that attractive (no offence). And (what I assume) Lindow's money maker, CNR - I have doubts corporations would be that interested.
(BTW, I'm not debating that targeting home users won't work, I'm saying targeting the corporate market makes far more money).
As long as Dell only offers MS Windows on their desktop computers, even the smallest system builder can now beat Dell pricing, simply by getting rid of the expensive "Microsoft Tax."
No. I once was part of an OEM company. The smallest companies can beat Dell anyday with or without Windows. For American OEMs, the cost of an OEM license is $40, not much when the cost is transfered to the customer.
The KooBox is a good example of this. This is full computer with a flat-pannel LCD monitor for only $449. Dell can't get to those prices, because they have to pay Microsoft and The KooBox doesn't.
No. Just say Dell decides to dump Windows and load Lindows. Does the price drop dramaticaly? Why should it? Considering its volume, I would be suprise they pay any more than $20 per computer for Windows, they couldn't slash out a few hundred dollars.
And does KooBox offer the same degree of support as Dell? (i.e. if you move to, say, Netherlands, where do you get support, claim warranty, etc.?)
BTW, thanks for the free download. Downloading now, doubt I would keep it long (I'm increasingly attracted to using FreeBSD). I doubt I would have much need for Lindows - the only reason why I use Windows is applications (and the same goes for my family). Difficulty and polish matter very little to me. But I must commend you, this is a very good marketing pitch - you would get customers that probably would have never considered Lindows.
And does KooBox offer the same degree of support as Dell? (i.e. if you move to, say, Netherlands, where do you get support, claim warranty, etc.?)
Because of Dell's lousy support I will never buy a Dell again. They didn't ship the right products in first place and their phone support has been worse than bad.
If by two years my company isn't breaking even, I wouldn't be happy in throwing around money on things my potential competitors can and possibly will use. It makes amazingly little sense. If you are making much money, I can relate. But how does KDE-look.org and KDE-app.org benefit Lindows? Little. All good themes end up in KDE's CVS anyway.
Maybe because people (like me) feel good about such companies. In my case it led to a lifetime Lindows membership.
...Linux wouldn't win by getting unto Walmart.com. Where the money comes is from the corporate market, and quite frankly...
...and there's more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens't sell weapons!
Seriously though - heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)
No. I once was part of an OEM company. The smallest companies can beat Dell anyday with or without Windows. For American OEMs, the cost of an OEM license is $40, not much when the cost is transfered to the customer.
For a sub $200 computer, $40 is over 20% of the price. And then you won't get all the free applications of CnR.
There is an other good interview at DesktopOS.com
Thye both come out at the same time...
http://www.desktopos.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1
Because of Dell's lousy support I will never buy a Dell again. They didn't ship the right products in first place and their phone support has been worse than bad.
I once worked for a Dell Service Provider, most of the customers would give a good review. In fact, compared with any other tier one OEM, Dell gives the best support. But like every product and service, there is always customers that get burned.
As for shipping of the wrong products, unless you directly request for something, the Call Center normally diagnose the problem and predict the required product for a repair.
...and there's more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens't sell weapons!
Seriously though - heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)
Is it out now?
For two years, they have been targeting home users. Think of your average home user - would they really care what OS they would use? Nope, not really. And if you think about it - how much incentive is there for them to change OS? If they buy a Mac, for example, they can manage their photos and music easier out of the box (as well as buy downloaded music legally), easily edit their videos, and now, their own music.
In other words, I have no reason to use Lindows if I was a normal Windows user.
Besides, my father keeps a copy of Windows 2000 on his laptop even though the laptop came with Windows XP. Wonder why? His office uses Windows 2000. In addition to that, the office uses Office 97, and while he has the potential to buy Office 2003, he buys Office 97.
You may be asking, WHY?!? He doesn't the complications of having different versions. Now imagine different *software*.
For a sub $200 computer, $40 is over 20% of the price. And then you won't get all the free applications of CnR.
For $200, you can probably get a VIA C3, around 800MHz, 20GB of hard disk space, 64-128MB of memory, basic keyboard and mouse and probably a cheap 24watt speaker. Not much of a market, no? Most people buying a new computer want at least CD burning capabilities, probably the ability to watch the DVDs they bought, play a few games if need. That $200 box does none of that.
So unless you don't plan to use the computer much, except for a few times a month, that $200 PC makes little sense. Or a computer for that toddler to do her pre-school games while you do some serious work on the main family computer Either way, the market is very small, very unprofitable.
BTW, the average price for computer sold is $800, which is more or less 20% of the Asian (minus Japan) market. I expect North America, the average price to be higher.
Besides, my point was that Windows licenses play a small part of an average computer's cost, and big OEMs are a hundred or two more expensive than small-time OEMs not because of Windows, but because of things like support cost, warranty, transport, etc. And all I'm saying that if small-time OEMs can't bring companies like Dell down now, Lindows would be little help.
When i type IReadOSNews i get this error
Coupon iREADOSNews is not intended for the product/service you are trying to apply it to.
How do i type so the letters dont change capital
damn the download is confusing once you create the account the n you have to click on the tabs on the left side to access the iso download and wait in line for the download to start not enough info about what to do instead you get plastered with the 15 day trial thing that asks all your details and stuff.. i thought it would email me instructions or allow me to download after the invoice. well confusing.
ended up making 3 order invoices.. sorry about that heh heh
to be honest when i first heard of lindows alarm bells sounded wasnt sure whether to trust them or not and at first i have to say they got a lot of bad press by people not trusting your actions, i didnt trust them at all aswell. It just seemed like some fat cats coming in turning other peoples hard work and trying to claim all the credits, what microsoft is known for..
in all honesty WHEN you become successful, i hope you dont become greedy and turn all your attention to being like another microsoft. As in i hope you continue contributing. Which if as you say you already have spent such amounts of money and carry doing so, it can only be a good thing as the developers can in turn devote more of their time to developing while at the same time every one benefits, even cornering 10 % of the desktop market share would be awesome.
also to rajanr corporate desktops may have more money to pay up front, but to put you in a situation say alot of people end up running lindows and they for example call up their isp for technical support and the isp turns around and says sorry we dont support that platform after a while if they get more and more calls they will then have to support that platform to support it they in turn will need lindows running locally. Basically once you crack the home users business users will have to support the home user, so its a wise decision but a risky one aswell. because lindows has to have a fat share of the home user market which again is a good thing, the less share microsoft has the better the more the market space opens up and microsoft will have to compete with better software rather than bullshit FUD, the very emergence of linux as a good alternative caused the shake up which is windows 2k and xp, if they hadnt had done something they would have lost market share, if linux didnt exist i would bet there would be another resell of the 9x shit, because they could and because milking a shit product was within their power.
one thing thats kind of pissed me off is if you were the ones that helped codeweavers setup and established cross over office and contributed half a million to codeweaveres it seems kind of greedy the amount they charge for their tool, I can understand their need for money still, but the 60 odd dollars is just plain extortion. I refuse to pay that, as its just damn right greedy.
Well im gonna give this thing a trial run who knows if its good, i may well buy the 5 when it comes out. (long time debian user)
Well, I've got a much better impression of Lindows after reading this interview. I'd echo Rajan that they seem remarkably prolific for a company that isn't making money, but I guess they have a plan. We'll soon find out if they don't.<p>
The audio tutorials were impressive, though unfortunately the Linux version of macromedias flash player shows its suckyness once again - I got constant freezes thanks to esd 
<p>
SELinux over user/root, yes, very smart. I'd not be surprised to see this happen soon, probably after Fedora 2 comes out with it.<p>
As for Wine - well, of course I still think it's very important but then I'm a Wine developer so I would. While I agree that using Wine to run apps for which there are good free software equivalents is pretty silly, many computer users have existing software libraries (games in particular) that they simply won't leave behind.
"...and there's more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens't sell weapons!
Seriously though - heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)"
Is it out now?
For two years, they have been targeting home users. Think of your average home user - would they really care what OS they would use? Nope, not really. And if you think about it - how much incentive is there for them to change OS? If they buy a Mac, for example, they can manage their photos and music easier out of the box (as well as buy downloaded music legally), easily edit their videos, and now, their own music.
In other words, I have no reason to use Lindows if I was a normal Windows user.
Besides, my father keeps a copy of Windows 2000 on his laptop even though the laptop came with Windows XP. Wonder why? His office uses Windows 2000. In addition to that, the office uses Office 97, and while he has the potential to buy Office 2003, he buys Office 97.
You may be asking, WHY?!? He doesn't the complications of having different versions. Now imagine different *software*.
I think the one thing that needs to be acknowledge is this. Linux software sucks.
I'll give you a real world example from 3 months ago. A family friend, running Windows 2000 was hit by the blaster worm, he was rather disgruntled from the point of view that he does the right thing. He updates the software, checks for virus definitions on the net and defrags the hard disk, in other words, he a perfect user.
He doesn't use his computer for a couple of weeks as he used his work laptop in that time. He turns on his computer and connects to the internet to do a bit of surfing. Within a few minutes he was infected with the Blaster worm.
He calls me over and I get rid of the worm, update his software and virus definitions. We got talking about Windows and he asked, "is there an alternative to Windows? I'm sure there must be something better out there". I explained that there is Linux and FreeBSD, however, I would suggest Linux for a first time user. We got chatting and he was quite impressed about running Office 2000 on Codeweavers wine, surfing the internet, sending emails. He enjoyed the whole experience.
Now, the big crux was the fact that he couldn't run the games he wanted to. He had a Joystick and a number of flight simulation games. If it were just the Office suite, a few card games and so forth, it wouldn't be much of an issue, however, the fact is that he could neither run the games he had nor go out and buy update versions that could run on Linux.
One thing I need to stress is this, he was quite happy to purchase a new flight simulator, however, since there is no flight simulator for Linux of similarity to Microsoft Flight Simulator or Janes Flight Simulator, I wasn't able to sell the concept of using Linux for this persons desktop.
That is what let down it. Not the desktop, the installation or even the hardware support. What let down the adoption was the lack of applicaitons.
What Lindows SHOULD do is stop trying to create NEW applications and instead work WITH Adobe, EA Games, Macromedia, Corel, MYOB, Quicken etc etc and partially/fully pay for the porting of applications to the Lindows operating system.
The fact is, people are happy with the chosen software, they just want an better operating system but still have the ability to run all the applications they use to. Why should I give up functionality for the sake of a better operating system? Its time Linux companies realised that it isn't the operating system itself but the lack of applications which is holding back Linux's adoption as a viable desktop solution.
Microsoft know this and hence, they aren't worried. They'll only start worrying when the Adobes and Macromedias of the world start saying, "there is a real future in Linux, we better start porting out applications over". The day that happens will be the day Microsoft will start shaking in their boots.
How to get past this form??
Eugenia, how did you do that?
For $200, you can probably get a VIA C3, around 800MHz, 20GB of hard disk space, 64-128MB of memory, basic keyboard and mouse and probably a cheap 24watt speaker. Not much of a market, no? Most people buying a new computer want at least CD burning capabilities, probably the ability to watch the DVDs they bought, play a few games if need. That $200 box does none of that.
Well, the low-end PC market has grown alot in recent years. This is also the home market where Linux stands the best chance against Windows.
I once worked for a Dell Service Provider, most of the customers would give a good review. In fact, compared with any other tier one OEM, Dell gives the best support. But like every product and service, there is always customers that get burned.
As for shipping of the wrong products, unless you directly request for something, the Call Center normally diagnose the problem and predict the required product for a repair.
Here in Sweden Dell is known for bad quality and service. (as well as lousy conditions for it's employees)
BTW, the average price for computer sold is $800, which is more or less 20% of the Asian (minus Japan) market. I expect North America, the average price to be higher.
True, but still the sectors growing most are laptops and really cheap low.end PCs. Lindows aims for both.
http://flightgear.org/
As I said, commercial software. The box, support, documentation, updates and all the piddly crap that comes with buying a boxed product.
Manish,
As stated among the earlier comments you don't need to get past credit card. Simply click "buy now" on the dev ed and then you'll see under the credit card stuff:
"Click Here if you have a coupon you would like to apply to any related items that are currently in your shopping cart. "
Click any of the words "click here" and then type in 'IReadOSNews" as your coupon code.
If the Linux games aren't good enough and the windows games that run through wine won't do it either, you better stick to windows.
Linux never claimed to be a gaming OS.
I do agree though, that it would be nice if Lindows could bring more commercial games to Linux.
Had Loki Soft been here today I'm sure their sales would have been higher and we would have had alot more games.
Maybe Lindows should start a Linux gaming company together with some other desktop linux distributors?
Well, the low-end PC market has grown alot in recent years. This is also the home market where Linux stands the best chance against Windows.
From what I see here in Malaysia, all the low-end PC makers (i.e. unknown OEM makers) are slowly targeting new markets or going bankrupt. So if you ask me, if this market is growing rapidly as you would imply, it certainly ain't making money.
Besides, again in Malaysia, most computer sales are mid-end, normally for gaming and work-related. Many are also taking advantage of low-cost broadband (as seen in Malaysia, Singapore, China, Taiwan, South Korea, etc.) where a $200 PC wouldn't really take advantage of.
As for laptops, why would anyone buy a laptop with Lindows? If I'm going for cost, buying a laptop from Dell, HP/Compaq, Apple, etc. seems a smart choice. If I'm going for size, Sony, Apple, Fujitsu, Sharp, etc. If I'm a doctor or in sales where I need a Tablet - does Lindows gives such a choice? If I want a desktop replacement, laptops from companies like AlienWare to Dell comes to mind.
My point is that Wintel companies and Apple already cornered the market and know how to keep it. Linux have little to no hope there.
Click on the link to get to the product page, click on the developers edition BUYNOW button. On that page, towards the bottom, there is a link that says "Click here if you a coupon you would like to apply...". The enter the code IReadOSNews <--just copy and paste this if you have to. Hit continue and it will take you to a shopping cart screen. Check out, then hit process order now, then hit continue, and when you see "Secure your FREE Trial Now!" look to the left on the side bar and select My Products, cd downloads and your there!
Thanks for this offer, I downloaded it and I'm going to give it a try on one of my spare Athlons.
Lets see if I can get this to run in parallel to my "real" Debian via UserModeLinux
As for laptops, why would anyone buy a laptop with Lindows? If I'm going for cost, buying a laptop from Dell, HP/Compaq, Apple, etc. seems a smart choice. If I'm going for size, Sony, Apple, Fujitsu, Sharp, etc. If I'm a doctor or in sales where I need a Tablet - does Lindows gives such a choice? If I want a desktop replacement, laptops from companies like AlienWare to Dell comes to mind.
Again, Lindows pretty much spanks the others price-wise when it comes to laptops. Try matching this deal with a Dell:
http://www.gearzoo.com/product_info.php?products_id=30
Co-incidentially the Lindows laptops are sold out here, but there's no need to despair - 300.000 more Lindows laptops are shipping from your region (Taiwan) right now:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1429035,00.asp
Besides, again in Malaysia, most computer sales are mid-end, normally for gaming and work-related. Many are also taking advantage of low-cost broadband (as seen in Malaysia, Singapore, China, Taiwan, South Korea, etc.) where a $200 PC wouldn't really take advantage of.
Fortunately there are Lindows machines more in the mid-range too:
http://koobox.com/
My point is that Wintel companies and Apple already cornered the market and know how to keep it. Linux have little to no hope there.
My point is that Apple isn't the market LindowsOS aims for (yet). Windows, otoh, is not like "one" market. Windows has got huge market share on ALL kinds of desktop use and it's some of these that Lindows now aims for.
Just the fact that Windows is dominant now doesn't mean it is tomorrow.
Hi Guys.
My first post here - Great site with some great articles and feedback.
Anyway onto LindowsOS. Is it really necessary for these guys to deride M$ so much? I mean I can't stand M$'s business practices any more than the next guy and I'm certainly no M$ fan I can assure you. But this can't be good for the linux community at all. I've never felt it was wise for any business to deride another in any circumstance - Just get on with your business and build that better mouse trap and everyone will love you! These guys are over the top IMHO
Really, do they need to have Bill Gates Sucks in their hardware compatibility list?
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_hwsw_compatibility.php
Drop down the select a company form and you'll see it.
I know it might be all in fun and all, but it doesn't appear very professional and I'm sure no other of M$'s enemies has done things like this in the past, have they?
Till
Actually I found out that Lindows laptop wasn't so very well priced in that matter, but it still sells very good so I guess you could say Lindows.com has very much succeeded here.
Any Lindows user can create entries in that list, I bet it's not Lindows.com who created that particular one.
If the Linux games aren't good enough and the windows games that run through wine won't do it either, you better stick to windows. Linux never claimed to be a gaming OS.
I do agree though, that it would be nice if Lindows could bring more commercial games to Linux.
Had Loki Soft been here today I'm sure their sales would have been higher and we would have had alot more games.
Maybe Lindows should start a Linux gaming company together with some other desktop linux distributors?
The thing is, I never play games. What I gave was an example of Joe average not being able to get the games and applications he wants. Replace the game name with "Joey Joes Card Making Kit" and you'll have the same result.
Face the facts, Linux applications in their current form suck. Anything beyond an IRC client, IM client, NNTP client or a web browser is crap. Just look at GIMP as one example, the interface is a usability nightmare, I know it, every professional artist out there knows it and yet, the developers of GIMP just "don't get it".
They get the whining and yet they put up the same defence that all OSS projects do, "oh, its because you're stupid" or "oh, its because ours is superior and you'll have to learn the superior way of doing things".
But hey, don't get me wrong. I don't expect the OSS coders to simply say, "bloody hell, we better listen to the almighty Chocolate Cheese Cake or fear the rath!", however on the other hand, Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, SUN, IBM and HP have done NOTHING to bring commercial applications to Linux. Yeap, not one bloody thing.
Why didn't IBM start at home and port the whole Lotus desktop produce line up to Qt/KDE? if they're so commited to Linux, why haven't they actually committed themselves in a real way? Why do they still insist on promoting Windows over Linux for the desktop? why don't they promote Windows AND Linux for their Thinkcentre line?
HP is the same situation, they promote Linux and yet they have the nerve DURING THE SCO vs IBM TRIAL, to go on the SCO Roadshow to promote SCO's snake oil. They then request SCO to pull down their logo off the website and then for the next couple of days conduct a bit of media spinning. 3 days later, the Linux zealots are now blinded to HPs real position; ride the Linux hype and hope the share price keeps growing towards the clouds.
SUN is even worse. They assume that all employees need is a web browser, IM client, office suite and email application. The fact is, the corporate desktop needs more than just a couple of OSS applications. Accounting deparment needs access to Peachtree or MYOB, the marketing department requires Adobe and Macromedia applications, and the IT department needs access to development tools.
What has SUN done to address their customers needs? have they actually sat down and asked, "what applications do you need in your day to day running of your business?". Find out and bloody well get them ported. Why is the bloody obvious always over looked by so-called "managers" who couldn't find a clue even if it was personally read to them by a guy with a huge hat and tap dancing to the song "a little Spainish flea".
The thing is, I never play games. What I gave was an example of Joe average not being able to get the games and applications he wants. Replace the game name with "Joey Joes Card Making Kit" and you'll have the same result.
That applies to anyone switching platform, wether it's from/to windows/linux/macos/others.
The same apps usually don't run on other platforms and it's pretty simple - it is what makes these OSes different platforms that cause it.
Face the facts, Linux applications in their current form suck. Anything beyond an IRC client, IM client, NNTP client or a web browser is crap. Just look at GIMP as one example, the interface is a usability nightmare, I know it, every professional artist out there knows it and yet, the developers of GIMP just "don't get it".
They get the whining and yet they put up the same defence that all OSS projects do, "oh, its because you're stupid" or "oh, its because ours is superior and you'll have to learn the superior way of doing things".
People always complain on all products. Myself I'm pretty satisfied with the apps I have in Linux and I really think Gimp rocks.
But hey, don't get me wrong. I don't expect the OSS coders to simply say, "bloody hell, we better listen to the almighty Chocolate Cheese Cake or fear the rath!", however on the other hand, Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, SUN, IBM and HP have done NOTHING to bring commercial applications to Linux. Yeap, not one bloody thing.
Out of those companies only IBM and Sun create commercial (non-operating system leveled) applications, and they have both brought commercial applications to Linux.
Why didn't IBM start at home and port the whole Lotus desktop produce line up to Qt/KDE? if they're so commited to Linux, why haven't they actually committed themselves in a real way? Why do they still insist on promoting Windows over Linux for the desktop? why don't they promote Windows AND Linux for their Thinkcentre line?
Because Linux isn't the answer to everything. At least not yet. You also have to remember that IBM still is pretty new in the Linux game, as is the rest of the big companies supporting Linux.
HP is the same situation, they promote Linux and yet they have the nerve DURING THE SCO vs IBM TRIAL, to go on the SCO Roadshow to promote SCO's snake oil. They then request SCO to pull down their logo off the website and then for the next couple of days conduct a bit of media spinning. 3 days later, the Linux zealots are now blinded to HPs real position; ride the Linux hype and hope the share price keeps growing towards the clouds.
That's what makes it a commercial
SUN is even worse. They assume that all employees need is a web browser, IM client, office suite and email application. The fact is, the corporate desktop needs more than just a couple of OSS applications. Accounting deparment needs access to Peachtree or MYOB, the marketing department requires Adobe and Macromedia applications, and the IT department needs access to development tools.
What has SUN done to address their customers needs? have they actually sat down and asked, "what applications do you need in your day to day running of your business?". Find out and bloody well get them ported. Why is the bloody obvious always over looked by so-called "managers" who couldn't find a clue even if it was personally read to them by a guy with a huge hat and tap dancing to the song "a little Spainish flea".
Their Java desktop doesn't look too good to me either. Still they seem to take this whole desktop thing pretty seriously.
I don't know what they have in mind but it's too early to deem them out yet.
>> When i type IReadOSNews i get this error
>> Coupon iREADOSNews is not intended for the product/service you are trying to apply it to.
>> How do i type so the letters dont change capital
Make sure that you are trying to order the developer's edition because the coupon likely does not apply to any other edition.
I am not very familiar with LindowsOS. Will the installer give me an option to install on a separate partition without overwriting my Windows XP and Fedora partitions?
I have never read anything like this from a leader of a company... then to give away their product just for reading it. I am downloading and installing Lindows 4.5 this week for sure!
I definitely understand Lindows more because I read this... Thanks so much for the freebie.
Also... you do not have to have a credit card for the download, but I did find it a little difficult to understand the process, maybe Lindows can fix their download situation and help newbie Lindows users figure out how to do a digital download. :-)
I am not very familiar with LindowsOS. Will the installer give me an option to install on a separate partition without overwriting my Windows XP and Fedora partitions?
You will have to option of either selecting an existing partition to install Lindows over, or let it take over the whole drive. This is about the only question the installer will ask you
I agree with you on the state of applications on Linux. I think what would be cool is a site that comes up with redesigns for popular Open Source applications like The GIMP. Then those of us who know a thing or two about UI design/interaction/usability etc. can come up with proposed "revamps" to the user interfaces. Have you any ideas for a revised interface for The GIMP?
I'm all for it. Better design is always a good thing.
If web space is needed I can help you out.
Thanks for those who took the time to read this long interview. I'll try to address some of your comments below.
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.
"You need a credit card to get the free download and I don't have one."
You don't need a credit card to get the free OS.
There seems to be some confusion about how to do the coupon code, etc. Here are the steps:
1. Goto http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php?own=no
2. Choose the "Buy now!" button for the Digital or Retail Package version of the DEVELOPERS EDITION of LindowsOS 4.5. (Digital will end up being free, Retail Packaged version will end up being $10 plus s/h).
3. On the next page that appears, click the link for "...if you have a Coupon Code..." at the bottom of that page.
4. Enter the code, IReadOSNews and click the Update button. This should show a $59.95 discount. Click the Continue button, the finish the checking out process.
To get to the .iso files, goto: http://shop.lindows.com/user/mylindows_download_library.php
If you need more help at that point, visit http://lindows.com/installhelp or http://lindows.com/support
--------------------
"When i type IReadOSNews i get this error: Coupon iREADOSNews is not intended for the product/service you are trying to apply it to."
You need to be sure and select the DEVELOPERS EDITION. The coupon code will only work with that product.
--------------------
"I can download all the CD, not only the Developers one ?"
Correct. This code will give you access to all .iso's that are of equal or less value as the Developer's Edition, so this means a few other versions of LOS, LindowsCD ("live" CD), etc. Great deal, I know. =)
--------------------
"Ever thought of doing a Live CD and marketing it in a cool way?"
We have a "Live" CD, it's called LindowsCD and you get access to this .iso as well using the coupon code.
http://lindows.com/lindowscd
--------------------
"As far as I go, I dont like making computers on the cheap ;-) so I wouldnt opt for the OEMs if I were to get Lindows..."
There are plenty of builders who sell high-power LindowsOS computers or let you build your own. WalMart selling $199 computers is only ONE of DOZENS of companies selling LindowsOS computers.
One example: http://www.prosourcepc.com
More examples: http://lindows.com/featured
--------------------
" Also, I certainly appreciated the candidness, the lack of market-speak, and the free download. I probably never would have tried Lindows out before, but now Im definatly going to give it a go on one of my boxes. Who knows, maybe I'll like it after all. "
" Wow, great interview. I was skeptical about Lindows before, but this does a lot to win me over. For example, it convinced me that Lindows.com has healthy long-term plans and a lot of energy, meaning it's probably worth supporting. Gonna download that ISO now."'
Thanks. Sorry we haven't been more open all along with the outside world. As I said, our users will tell you we are VERY open with them on our forums, but we've been so busy on the product and building the company, we haven't taken the time to share things with non-LindowsOS users as much. We're going to correct that.
--------------------
"$14.95 for c&r PER MONTH...??!!"
CNR is only $4.95 a month or $49.95 for a year. The $14.95 a month offer is for a lot of stuff, not just CNR. For that you also get Virus Protection, Web Filtering, Star Office, etc.
--------------------
" BUT - beeing "root" is a hudge security hole if the "administrator" itself is the "average user" (PEBCAC "
Right, that's why we make it super easy and educate our users about running as a user, not root. (Kevin bangs his head on wall... =)
--------------------
" I don't know whether Kevin Carmona will read this, but I hope he does. "
He did. =)
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" If you walk into any major bookstore, you wil find hundreds of books on how to use Microsoft Office or Microsoft XP."
Well, we're not as big as MS just yet. Here's a good start at least, that you'll find in most bookstores or Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592000606/qid=107478...
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"But how does KDE-look.org and KDE-app.org benefit Lindows? "
We don't expect to be profitable day one with this mission. This is a long-term plan. We are INVESTING into these technologies because KDE and KDE apps HUGELY benefit LindowsOS and many Linux companies. Remember MS Windows 1.0? (flop), MS Windows 2.0 (flop again), MS Windows 3.1? (The rest is history. 95% market share today.) Rome wasn't built in a day, neither will desktop Linux, but by investing today, little by little, desktop Linux is getting there.
--------------------
"And (what I assume) Lindow's money maker, CNR - I have doubts corporations would be that interested. "
Businesses LOVE CNR. It's probably the #1 reason businesses choose LindowsOS. IT professionals love setting up a new computer in minutes (Install LOS in 7 minutes, CNR ONE "Aisle" and their work is done. No CD's to bother with. No activation codes. No messy licensing. No huge costs.)
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"For American OEMs, the cost of an OEM license is $40, not much when the cost is transfered to the customer. "
Dell and the biggest OEM's (HP, etc.) pay around $65 for a MS Windows license, most other companies pay around $100. If you know someone paying $40, I'm sure Michael Dell would like to talk to them.
MS makes over ONE BILLION dollars in PROFITS EACH MONTH from two products...MS Windows and MS Office (all their other products lose money). Trust me, they charge for MS Windows.
--------------------
" And does KooBox offer the same degree of support as Dell?"
Yes, KooBox offers great support options.
http://koobox.com/indexSUPPORT.html
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"The audio tutorials were impressive, though unfortunately the Linux version of macromedias flash player shows its suckyness once again"
Try these in LindowsOS and see how well Flash can work on Linux. This is one of those things you can help make better by focusing on desktop Linux.
--------------------
" I do agree though, that it would be nice if Lindows could bring more commercial games to Linux. "
We're working on this. We have a handful of nice commercial games in our Warehouse, with more coming all the time. As market share for desktop Linux grows, so will the game availability.
--------------------
" Really, do they need to have Bill Gates Sucks in their hardware compatibility list? "
We didn't put that in there, some user must have made that entry. (Users can input their own hardware experiences.) Thanks for pointing it out, we'll remove it. We agree it's not appropriate.
We don't "put down" Microsoft, we COMPETE with them. I have a ton of respect for Microsoft, but they have 95% marketshare, so of course that's who we're trying to compete with.
Thanks again,
Kevin
Been there, done that. LindowsOS appears to be a very nice distro for GNU/Linux beginners. Lindows makes KDE almost bearable with their audiovisual enhancements and the overall system performance seems to be smooth enough for daily use. But the novelty wears off pretty soon. :-( Obviously this is not the distro for me. Oh well, next destination NetBSD...
This download thing just is not working. I have tried it from two computers, and when you try to check out it sends you to the login page, which you can't get by unless you give credit card info. Yes I have read the other posts and I don't see the same things come up. Oh well, I didn't want it that bad anyway.
"Will the installer give me an option to install on a separate partition without overwriting my Windows XP and Fedora partitions?"
Yes. During install you can chose the "Advanced Install," which will detect if your hard drive has partitions, and if so, allow you to choose which to install LOS to.
--------------------------
"I agree with you on the state of applications on Linux. I think what would be cool is a site that comes up with redesigns for popular Open Source applications like The GIMP."
That's the beauty of open source, anyone is welcome to jump in and help. If what someone does is seen as generally better, hopefully the maintainers of a project will incorporate the changes as well. This is exactly what we're doing with Nvu for example. (http://nvu.com) We started with Mozilla Composer (the main engineer we hired for Nvu is Daniel Glazman, who has been the chief architect for Mozilla Composer) and then added a much easier and more powerful interface. We're also working on similar projects for many Linux applications.
Also, as I pointed out, be on the lookout for the re-launch of KDE.com, where we'll soon be launching a bounty program to actually pay developers from around the world to help out with enhancing applications.
--------------------------
"This download thing just is not working."
Please email me (kevinc@lindows.com) and I'll get one of our support people to help you out. Sorry you're having problems.
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.
Very cool. But how long will I be able to download it? Meaning, if you remove the coupon in a few days, will I be able to continue the download with GetRight (also even though my IP most likely has changed)? I'm at 143 MB now and have about 3 hours left, most likely I'll resume the download tomorrow.
Just wanted to say awesome article/interview. I am pretty much a WIndows user, but would very much like to move to Linux. For me the huge issue is gaming, I use my Windows box for 90% gaming and until Linux can run games off the shelf it will only be a novelty thing for me. I am still hoping!!
Kevin,
Very cool that you posted here at OSNews!! I am going to take advantage of the free copy of Developers Edtion of Lindows. If you guys over at Lindows ever make it gamer friendly I'll be signing up. What I mean about gamer friendly is that I can go buy a game, like Call of Duty, and run it in Lindows with no problems. I can only hope...... Look forward to hearing more from the Lindows camp.
"We're sorry, but an error has occurred while processing your download. Please try your download again. If you continue to receive this message, please contact our support team."
:(
I had a hard time downloading it. And I apologize, it took me about 6 times to get it to download so forgive me for all the invoices.
And thank you Kevin Carmony, Lindows.com and staff. I'm newish to Linux and have only been using free distros. I have read some reviews of Lindows and wanted to try it, but was turned off for now by the price tag (as all I do is experiment with it, since my regular desktop is still winXP), but this gives me the chance to try you out. And this is very opprotune as well, as my roommate is trying to decide to buy Mandrake. If this is good, then maybe he will go this way (he rather would have debian).
A question, will this include CNR? Or do you have to use the trial 15days?
It's not so much as I want the software, I just wanted to try the service to see how it works.
Everything aside, this article painted a positive picture for you, and scored many brownie points today. I hope, even if I don't use you, all the best in the world.
Salute
Panik
dosent get posted on /. Might take bring www.lindows.com down with people trying to d/l the free isos.
> I do agree though, that it would be nice if Lindows could bring more commercial games to Linux.
Good luck!
> Had Loki Soft been here today I'm sure their sales would have been higher and we would have had alot more games.
What makes you think that? A small portion of the public uses Linux. A small portion of Linux users play PC games. That makes an a total of very few people to buy the games. So if few people are gonna buy them, why put resources into it. Liondows seems to be spreading them selves very thin as is.
> Maybe Lindows should start a Linux gaming company together with some other desktop linux distributors?
Games are one industry that is gonna stay proprietary. OSS model just does not work for them.Games require too much focus to work.
I signed up as a Lifetime Supporter of Lindows last week (For France of all countries.. LOL! I guess that's why it's taking so long to sell all of those memberships for France when the others went in hours..)
I'll probably sign up as an insider when finances allow.
I was a plus user, since that allowed me to help Lindows out within my budget.
I am enjoying Kevin's contribution today, in the generous offer of the Free Version of Lindows, AND his great responsiveness on the board.
And I am REALLY looking forward to LindowsOS 5.0.
I just built a Duron 1400 System as my main Lindows box, as a Celeron 700 was just a little too anemic to do it justice.
It runs real nice on that, and I'm looking forward to what 5.0 will make available (2.6 Kernel ought to rock! And people are reporting that KDE 3.2 is smoother and faster than older versions).
A main point that gets glossed over by people is that in the years (24) that I have been in computers, every day people just don't use their computer in the same way me and my geeky friends do.
It's like the difference between a Race Car Driver and a Sunday Driver.
Race Car Drivers change tires several times a race. They tune up their engines every race. They use gas at a frightening pace.
The Sunday Driver changes tires once a year or less. Ditto with a tune up.
If Lindows was all there was, most people could get everything they wanted done with it. They have most everything they need to be productive daily.
Yes, more games would be good. A Tax Program like Turbo Tax would be good too!
But most people don't change their systems much. They want to send/receive E-Mail, IM, write letters or documents, maybe balance their checkbook, listen to some music...
Areas where Lindows addresses the need quite nicely.
I wish they had continued the WINE development, if only to allow more Windows Games to run on Lindows. I totally agree that spending $500 on Microsoft Office is ridiculous when Open Office serves most peoples needs and it's free... But, there are still LOTS of Windows Apps for which there are no Linux Equivalents.
I have NEVER been able to get WINE to work on Lindows.
I just would like to play with it. But, it doesn't work at all.
I still don't use Lindows as my "Daily Driver", but I see that I could if I wanted to.
Apple took BSD and made it a polished, end-user, desktop OS. In a remarkably short period of time.
Lindows could do the same thing given time, since they don't have the deep pockets of Apple.
I've been using Linu