Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 28th Jan 2004 19:24 UTC
Morphos A new product arises from Genesi: The Open Desktop Workstation is based upon the Genesi Pegasos, a CHRP based motherboard. Integrating selected Open Firmware and running multiple (15+) operating systems, the Workstation is an extremely efficient, very expandable hardware solution for personal and business computer requirements. Both IBM and Motorola feature the new product in their pages.
Order by: Score:
Woo, hoo!
by amigarulez! on Wed 28th Jan 2004 20:08 UTC

Genesi have a very polished and professional image. Can't wait for a dual PPC9070FX based Pegasos board. (In my dreams! :-))

In all seriousness, if Genesi is prototyping a G5 SMP with bus and controller throughput to keep up with the PPC's without blowing their price completely through the room (i.e. come out cheaper than Apple even if a bit more expensive than x86 and x86-64) then they might become the provider of my next computer, now being saved up for.

-- Ed

Good news for Amigans...
by Ronald on Wed 28th Jan 2004 20:23 UTC

I wonder if they are still planning dual G4 CPU daughterboards? But then is MorphOS SMP capable?

re: Good news for Amigans...
by amigarulez! on Wed 28th Jan 2004 20:26 UTC

"But then is MorphOS SMP capable?"

I think the Quark Kernel might be.

re: Good news for Amigans
by Nate Downes on Wed 28th Jan 2004 20:30 UTC

MorphOS is, but you will not get much benefit for it at this point. Someone with more knowledge than I can explain exactly why.

Genesi PowerPC based motherboard
by Henry Keultjes on Wed 28th Jan 2004 22:10 UTC

This is one of the first viable results since IBM started the POP project. At least one other Mini-ITX board is also in the works. However, most of PowerPCs potential is in the form of IBMs SoC technology as used in the PowerPC based
NetGem STB which, via USB, has PC functionality.

Any one interested in the unabridged version of "Perfect Pair - PowerPC and Desktop Linux"?e-mail hblastnameatearthlindotnet
Henry Keultjes
Database Scientifics
Mansfield Ohio USA

Is pegasos someone to count on?
by XBe on Wed 28th Jan 2004 22:13 UTC

Sorry to say this, but I'm a bit skeptic by nature to anything concerning the Amiga camp. Pegasos "sound" very good, but will it get out the door successfully and get any market?

I know OBOS (axel dörfler) have some connection to Pegasos and work are being done to support the platform which indeed is interesting for extending choices to pegasos.

With this in mind, this is an underdog who might release specs to their stuff so the community (as in any community) can write top notch drivers and really give the hardware the software it deserves.

I really look forward to hear about the progress on the Pegasos...

Althought the G5 chips themselves may be a non expensive solution for Genesi, the problems lies in designing all new motherboards and using new technologies. Those would drive the costs up more than what is probably desired by the company and its customers.

The Future Is Open
by magnetic on Wed 28th Jan 2004 22:31 UTC

This is great news for Genesi and for the Open Source community. The ability to run a G4 @ 1.3ghz in a fanless and silent case with Open Architecture and Open Source software like Linux is incredible. This is the RE-Evolution of the industry!
This combined with MorphOs the native operating system for Pegasos is a one-two punch. The oS is one of the fastest, most responsive operating systems in the world. Not only that but when you purchase the Pegasos you get a complete SDK for Morphos for FREE. This includes GCC compiler so anything open sourced can be compiled for Morphos. The board also comes with the Superbundle of games and applications, an incredible deal.
They are taking orders now so jump on this hot technology!

pegasosppc.com

Good Idea!
by bbrv on Wed 28th Jan 2004 22:33 UTC

Hi XBe, this is a good idea (releaseing specs) and something we have been thinking about. In fact, we registered www.openpowerarchitecture.com and .org earlier today.

The notion we have is an Open Hardware/Software Architecture Reference or O.P.A. (Open Power Architecture) to provide a flexible and scalable hardware abstraction layer for PowerPC driven devices. The design would cover a wide range of devices, ranging from Smart Phones to SMP server blades. As a comprehensively defined interface between hardware and software, O.P.A. will integrate all facets of a PowerPC implementation. Thus, O.P.A. - compliant base hardware will run all O.P.A. - compliant software and activate all O.P.A. - compliant peripherals. O.P.A. - complaint operating systems would include LINUX, the BSD family, QNX, VxWorks, and others like your favorite, OpenBeOS (time to call Michael Phipps again!).

We would offer the Pegasos as a reference platform, as well as a Firmware and OS reference as well. We might even tie all this into a Foundation and go out with a open license program from there. We like the idea of the Foundation being able to give away complete systems to causes that need them. It could be the only way for us to get the Open Community behind the platform and to get the hardware out there far enough to really make a difference, not to mention an endowment or two to make it happen.

Clearly, hardware vendors no longer would need to develop or license multiple implementation packages to enable multiple systems. Supporting one O.P.A. system means supporting every other O.P.A. system, both at the hardware and software levels. Use of O.P.A. will bring
down system development time and cost while speeding up time to market. OS vendors will be able to multiple support systems at release time by providing just one O.P.A. implementation.

An O.P.A. system would consist of the following elements:

HARDWARE<->FIRMWARE<->OPA interface<->OS

In the definition of O.P.A., firmware is treated as a subclass of hardware element. All pieces used to build the O.P.A. interface are built out from open standards and are certified free of any patents and non-public
licenses. Any intellectual Property created outside of known and freely available standards (like PCI, IEEE1275, etc.) will be secured in the name of O.P.A.org and then publicly sub-licensed to the O.P.A. community.

Still ideas at this point, but we are seriously thinking about them.

Sincerely,
R&B
bbrv@genesi.lu

Exactly
by root on Wed 28th Jan 2004 23:07 UTC

This is exactly what Apple should be doing. Bundle Linux with their hardware. I suggested this in another thread some days ago.

RE: root (IP: ---.clarion.edu)
by Steve S. on Wed 28th Jan 2004 23:36 UTC

> This is exactly what Apple should be doing. Bundle Linux
> with their hardware. I suggested this in another thread
> some days ago.

Most Apple buyers want MacOS. They aren't going to sell any more systems by including linux.

Including linux makes sense for Gensi, though.

RE: Exactly
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 00:03 UTC

Linux isn't for the desktop. You can't do serious work with it. It's only good for servers and vertical apps.

I'd take OS/2 over Linux anyday of the week. I've grown attached to my hair. ;)

Re: Exactly
by Nate Downes on Thu 29th Jan 2004 00:05 UTC

And those folk doing film editing, we're talking movies with budgets in the hundreds of millions, that's not serious work?

Change...
by bbrv on Thu 29th Jan 2004 00:20 UTC

Hi Ron, the issue is how to introduce a change. Being "open" is one way to do that. The Open Community did not introduce and today impose the revolutionary changes it has by the restriction of information. Through the exchange of ideas and work one effort built on another. All great inventors started out with ideas and effort concieved elsewhere.

The question is whether the internet and computer literacy has found its way far enough into the fiber of humanity to inspire all the pieces to pull together in a collaborative effort such as this. We have all the required components at our disposal. It just a question of how to do it and frankly whether or not it is really a meaningful idea.

R&B

RE: Exactly
by Tyrone Miles on Thu 29th Jan 2004 01:07 UTC

OS2 over Linux? LOL! You must be kidding me. There are NOOOOO Apps for OS2, no drivers and the graphics are from the Windows NT 3.51 days. LOL! You must be joking!

And what do you mean by serious work, I work for the US government and use my Lindows machine everyday. I use it to do webdesign and network management. So you tell me what I can't do with Linux I can do with OS2. I can tell you one thing you can't do with OS2 and that is install it. LOL! No drivers.

RE: Exactly | Change
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 01:20 UTC

@Nate Downes
Film editing = niche like having Ultra 320 SCSI ;) . And not desktop use.

To a normal computer user: Application installation is nearly impossible on Linux. Troubleshooting is also nearly impossible. Mac OS X is the best of the best concerning OSes. Why would they settle for lesser and extremely complicated?

@bbrv
"Change" (open source, open specs, etc...) has been getting more and more accepted since the first clone (Compaq). Only now more and more information is at everyone's reach. It's only a matter of targetting the right segments (non gamers) for people to get aquinted with the Peg2. A lot of people would love to switch to PowerPC but they need Windows. Habits are the hardest thing to change (ask people losing weight or smokers). The hardware isn't the problem nowadays (it's mostly compatible), it's still the software. But it's the software that the habits are "chained" up to. I have worked in places that when they changed from Wordperfect to Word, people would get "pissed" and "angry" over absurd things like changing word processors. It's not that they are narrow minded, biased or something like that. It's the habits. Wordperfect (DOS) is a tad more complicated program than Word (Windows). But Linux on the other hand it really complex and in another ball game. It's like typing whole texts using EDLIN. It's not fun at all and is a pain. For 99% of computer users, it's a huge step backwards. We got rid of the command line habits, accepted new GUI habits and now must get back to those complicated prompts.

It's sad that they choose UNIX roots over OS/2 and Amiga to make a new desktop. Enough ranting. ;)

RE: Exactly
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 01:39 UTC

@Tyrone Miles
Of course OS/2 over Linux. Here's what you can't do with Linux: When I want to install software, I want to do it with no fuss. Double-clicking on a WPI or EXE file is way faster than putting up with RPMs (or DEB or whatever else format they have now). You double-click on a RPM thinking that it's going to be installed properly. Then it leaves the installation with NO warning whatsover. After that you search for it. Then after 15 mins you abandon the search and retry installing the RPM. After another 15 mins, you decide to drop down to console mode and install it there. Then it gives you an error message saying some dependence file is missing or not up to date. Right there and now you've got 3 choices, settle for the software that came with the box/iso, waste time googling to find info or go into Disk Management (Windows XP) and kill those Linux partitions. Most people are going to do the 3rd option because they have better (Windows, OS/2, BeOS, etc...) Linux is not ready for a couple of years to reach up to Mac OS X in usability. Linux isn't ready. It's fanatics tell it is but everybody else knows it isn't.

Application installing difficult?
by Nate Downes on Thu 29th Jan 2004 02:00 UTC

Funny, I run Gentoo, one of the most difficult-to-work-with distributions, yet, installing applications is quite simple:

emerge [app-name]

what's so hard about that?

RE: Application installing difficult?
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 02:31 UTC

@Nate Downes
I'm glad for you that emerge worked for you. Do you have a URL on the package list that can be emerged? Does emerge display a menu of what's available to download on the official Gentoo servers? Does emerge do dependencies for you (DL from Net and install needed Pck) or does it just tell you that you need to search google for more emerge files like RPM does? Do I have to recompile the dependancies too?

I don't find search thru google funny just to install gnome apps. I didn't try updating the XFree86 server. Now THAT must be really fun for you. On Red Hat, I could see the home network. On SUSE and Mandrake, I couldn't. No utility to fix it up. What next?

Bottom line:Linux on Desktop = Not today. Maybe next year when more distros die out and people focus on solving Linux distros's problems.

RE: Exactly
by Tyrone Miles on Thu 29th Jan 2004 02:31 UTC

Gosh I hate when people who use one version of Linux and then use that as the standard for all of Linux.

For one if you use (Just for instance) Xandros or Lindows. They both use Apt. With Lindows and Xandros they both have graphical application install interfaces that are MUCH more easy to use then those in Windows and in OS2.

Everyone talks about dependencies. But that is not a problem now because you can use APT for RPM or Yum to install, manage and track software on any version of Linux. Dependencies become a thing of the past because 99% of the time Apt will update and download what you need to get around those problems.

Now what about DLL hell? How do you get around DLL problems? This is STILL an issue with Windows XP??

Worms and Viruses? Hummmmmm, how come the same old silly viruses are STILL killin Windows. How about the MyDoom from this past week or the Begal from 2 weeks ago? They say MyDoom has already caused $300 Million dollars in damage to companies in 2 days?? I have never hard anything like this in the Unix and Linux world? And with all the servers and Webservers out there running Linux and Unix you would think they would have a higher rate of those problems??? Yet you don’t! Shocking!

And then we talk about Mac OSX. Well Apple has billions of dollars yet look where they have gone for their OS and software. To the open source community. And even though they don’t use Linux as their Kernel everything else they use like apache, samba etc were developed for Linux first. Apple is copying just like Microsoft. Oh and then again you have to use Mac OSX with a Mac. No cross compatibility. Darn!

So please, try some of the easy to use versions of Linux. Unlike with Windows or Mac you have 100’s to choose from. Find a version of Linux that fits you and go for it. Or get stuck paying and paying and paying Apple $129 for the OS (And buying a new Mac every 2 – 3 years when the OS doesn’t work on your old Mac. Oh and what if your Mac has a problem?? Hummmm stuck with it, can’t add or remove parts, can’t upgrade nothing!) or Microsoft $199 or $299 for XP, then $300 for office, $200 for Visio etc, etc. Or be a thief like most people and steal it and use it proud as if you paid for it. LOL!

Oh and not to forget OS2?? When was the last time an OS2 update was put out? 1990 what? Hummmm, it’s seems funny to me that IBM is going all Linux on the desktop company wide by next year yet kicking OS2 to the curb! Now you tell me if OS2 is better why would the company that owns it and created it be kicking it to the curb for something that you claim is lesser??

Please, learn a little more and then talk. Don’t read what someone else has written then think you know what you are talking about when you have never even used the product. I have used every version of Windows, Mac OS, and OS2. And trust me even though they are all useable they all have just as many faults as Linux. Have you updated your DAT files today. LOL! (Have you defraged your hard drive or Chkdsked it lately? Do you have all 100 patches installed? After rebooting 20 times in the process) Please. LOL! Give me a break.

@ Ronald
by LaNcom on Thu 29th Jan 2004 03:13 UTC

Well, I'm another happy gentoo user (doing serious work with my box: C++ development, web design, 2D/ 3D graphics, video). BTW, gentoo is about the only distro that works out of the box and perfectly on AMD64, without quirks (I write this from my Opteron)...
Yes, there is a list of the currently available ebuilds at http://packages.gentoo.org/ .
Yes, portage does dependency tracking (better than RPM, IMHO).
Yes, there are two GUI frontends (kportage for KDE and one for Gnome; I don't know it's name).

So, I consider Linux pretty much ready for the desktop... ;-)

Re: Ronald
by Nate Downes on Thu 29th Jan 2004 03:15 UTC

Package list:
/usr/portage

No URL needed. Just look there and ye shall find.

It automatically downloads and installs the dependencies. I've updated X a few times this month, to fix some bugs in my video driver that have finally been resolved. As easy as emerge xfree86

@ Nate Downes
by LaNcom on Thu 29th Jan 2004 03:35 UTC

You're right, but the question was:
"Do you have a URL on the package list that can be merged?" - I don't think Ronald has the tree in /usr/portage...

RE: Exactly
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 03:51 UTC

@Tyrone Miles
Put the bong down, son.

Gosh why are all defender of the "faith"-type blind and so full of ignorance? Next thing they'll talk about the BSOD and how they keep getting it 10 times per day at work. *sigh*

Linux fanatics still don't get it. They reply the APT-GET prepackaged answer to every question just to look smart. Then you tell them that you're using Red Hat because you can't install Debian. Or have access to Lindows/Xandros. APT-GET this, APT-GET that. Like an old vinyl that skips.

Linux worms and viruses: Linux.Slapper.Worm, Ramen Linux worm, 1i0n worm, Adore worm and the Sadmind/IIS worm. The self-righteous fanatics never acknowledge that there are more viruses for Windows because most computer are running Windows. More than 90% of computers are running Windows. Guess to which OS worms are more likely to cause problems to? They also never mention that it's easier to make worms for Linux bacause it's open source. Half of the work is already done for Viris makers. ;)

Mac basher lies: no cross compatibility. Office X worked great for me! Open standards, OH NO! First they complain that it's not based on standards then it's they're copying everything. Make up your minds people. Also note that if it wasn't for Mac, you would not be using the mouses and GUIs. It would have died with Xerox a long time ago. I remember when Mac bashers were making fun of Mac users for needing a GUI and a mouse. Right now a lot the themes at KDE-LOOK.org are based on Aqua. I wonder why ;)

Then it's "the you can't upgrade it" reason. Macs have the same video card (minus Firmware), same USB peripherals(Intel tech that was made popular by Apple), same printers, etc...

Then it's the you must pay argument. Apple has never disappointed me yet! Jaguar was worth it and so was Panther. Maybe if we payed for Linux, it wouldn't be so hard to install and more advanced for the average power user. ;)

Btw go to www.ecomstation.com for the new OS/2 client.

IBM has an history of sabotaging it's departments. OS/2 is just another casualty. If they didn't have as many clients, they'd have killed the midrange computers(AS/400) long ago. IIRC they tried 3 times to fold that dept. lol

So please use your brain cells next time you spew your drivel. Gnome is in between Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. A little more advanced than 3.1 but less polished than 95.

Pegasos
by Bharat on Thu 29th Jan 2004 04:27 UTC

Hmmm, I wonder if ark linux has a ppc version. IT would be perfect on this.

Also with kde 3.2 around the corner it should be an interesting time.

Ronald:
I am not sure if that is your intention, but you sound like a smug troll, with a holier than thou attitude.

First a rebuttal to windows has more viruses because its used more often.

By that reasoning Then since Apache is the most commonly used webserver, it should have the majority of security breaches. Which I believe isn't the case.

Sometimes design does matter u know.

and rpm has apt-get and yum. So please stop complaining about rpm dependencies.

"Easier to make worms for linux because its open source"

By that reasoning OpenBSD should have had a lot of exploits right?

Again its not an issue of OSS or closed source but that of design.

If there is a hole, in my experience, usually there is an immediate fix released within days/hours. That you cannot grudge the OSS community.

"Gnome is between 3.1 and 95"

Hmmmm. I gather you have had some problems with it? In my case it just gets the job done.No hassles whatsoever. So I have no complaints about it.

one thing i hope
by AlienSoldier on Thu 29th Jan 2004 04:34 UTC

whatever happen, keep that architecture fanless, even for a quad sytem.

That mean, don't play wintel strategy, wait to have small enough micron before thinking to enter the mhz race.

Re: Ronald
by Birdie.P on Thu 29th Jan 2004 05:07 UTC

Both Gnome and KDE are way ahead of Windows 95. I would put them somewhere between Win2K and XP.

A fair number of Mac bashers came out of the Windows camp - and, while you point out that there are KDE themes that mimic Aqua, you don't mention that the latest Mac OS is essentially true Unix and have great CLI capabilities.

I'm sure that most who have used Mac OSX don't mind paying $129 for it - there are many Linux distros that cost close to that. What irritates me is that Apple wants full price for point releases which, in both the Windows and *nix world would be free downloads.

You've pretty much listed all the worms that affect Linux at present and several of these use the same exploits so if
you've patched for one, you've got them all covered.

Your reasoning about writing exploits for Linux should translate in hundreds or thousands of viruses if it were really that easy. Also, while Linux's desktop share is miniscule compared to Windows, it's quite significant on SERVERS and too be quite frank, I think most crackers would rather hose a server than somebody's personal computer.

UDI?
by somon on Thu 29th Jan 2004 07:52 UTC

ever heard about project UDI!? http://www.projectudi.org/ Seems to be quite the same approach in my eyes...

RE: Birdie.P
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jan 2004 08:32 UTC

"What irritates me is that Apple wants full price for point releases which, in both the Windows and *nix world would be free downloads."

If you are referring to the difference in price from 10.2.x to 10.3, then i do not know if you have ever used many recent Mac Oses. OS 10.3 should really be someting like OS 11. 10.2 and 10.3 have huge differences in them which I believe justify the costs. The main reason Apple is sticking with 10 is from what I understand to be purely marketing. They spent a good amount on 10 (X) marketing.

RE: Exactly
by Tyrone Miles on Thu 29th Jan 2004 12:58 UTC

Here we go another non reading non Linux user who wants to claim that they know what they are talking about. Man I think there are too many Windows users with ADHD or something! LOL!

Let me break down and laugh at what you are saying it's pretty obvious that you don't know anything about computers or computer science! LOL!

1 You say “Linux fanatics still don't get it. They reply the APT-GET prepackaged answer to every question just to look smart. Then you tell them that you're using Red Hat because you can't install Debian. Or have access to Lindows/Xandros. APT-GET this, APT-GET that. Like an old vinyl that skips. “ Duh if you read what I wrote you would see that there is APT for Red Hat and RPM! You don't need Debian. Or you can use Yum for RPM which is very similar to APT! No Debian needed APT for RPM will work on any RPM based Linux distro!

2.You say” Linux worms and viruses: Linux.Slapper.Worm, Ramen Linux worm, 1i0n worm, Adore worm and the Sadmind/IIS worm. The self-righteous fanatics never acknowledge that there are more viruses for Windows because most computer are running Windows. More than 90% of computers are running Windows. Guess to which OS worms are more likely to cause problems to? They also never mention that it's easier to make worms for Linux bacause it's open source. Half of the work is already done for Viris makers. ;)
For one if you knew anything about computer science you would know that the amount of machines only correlates to the size of the outbreak, not to the reason why it's easy to hit people with viruses and worms. Duh! If that was the case then why are not more people attacking UNIX and Linux being that Unix and Linux machines are being used for much more important tasks like e-commerce and banking?? You not gonna gain anything but laughs by giving a bunch of windows users a headache. Notice that when you do see linux viruses and worms you only see one or 2 sites or groups hit when companies like IBM and Amazon.com run all their webbased business on Linux?? Hummmmmmm! And being that the OS is open Source that means more people can find the problems and fix them. Unlike with Windows where only Microsoft can fix the problem. If Microsoft (Which they do all the time) chooses not to acknowledge there is a problem then the hole does not get fixed, or it gets fixed at a time of their choosing, or they put out a patch and don't tell anyone. LOL! Anyway I have yet to hear of a Linux outbreak. There are viruses and worms for any OS. Apple just came out with security patches yesterday. There are Millions of Macs out there but I have not heard of a Mac virus outbreak lately.

3.You Say” Mac basher lies: no cross compatibility. Office X worked great for me! Open standards, OH NO! First they complain that it's not based on standards then it's they're copying everything. Make up your minds people. Also note that if it wasn't for Mac, you would not be using the mouses and GUIs. It would have died with Xerox a long time ago. I remember when Mac bashers were making fun of Mac users for needing a GUI and a mouse. Right now a lot the themes at KDE-LOOK.org are based on Aqua. I wonder why ;)
Here again YOU DID NOT READ! What I said about cross compatibility was that if you don't buy a mac machine you get NO Mac OS. Which means you are tied into their hardware. (So if there is a hardware problem with a particular line of MAC's, guess what you deal with it or no MAC OS! Oh and I hear tell them MS my discontinue Office for Mac! Now what you gonna do?? LOL! Use Open Office cause Apple has no Office Suite. That is what I mean by compatibility. And themes?? Based on Aqua, wow, there are XP and 2000 themes. Just because something looks good to you doesn't mean it's good for you the saying goes! LOL! So why not get the Aqua look since Apple uses ALL open source in the Mac OS anyway??

4.And last but not least you say “Btw go to www.ecomstation.com for the new OS/2 client.

IBM has an history of sabotaging it's departments. OS/2 is just another casualty. If they didn't have as many clients, they'd have killed the midrange computers(AS/400) long ago. IIRC they tried 3 times to fold that dept. lol

So please use your brain cells next time you spew your drivel. Gnome is in between Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. A little more advanced than 3.1 but less polished than 95.” Me myself I don't use Gnome so I can't speak on Gnome, but I assume now that Novell owns the company there will be more money to make it much better! You have to remember that MS has been making their OS for over 20 years and the Linux Kernel has only been around for 10. It's funny that with a 10 year head start I can still get into a discussion about which is better, Linux or Windows! You would think with a 10 year head start and 50 Billion in the bank Windows would be WAYYYYYY head of Linux, yet it's not! And dang Apple after all these years making their own OS, brought the mouse to the people etc, got stomped by Microsoft and is not being stomped by Linux! It's bad when the business model of a computer company is to make money selling music and IPODS and not computer software and equipment! As for as the ecomstation goes it's still OS2 Warp 4 which still looks like Windows NT 3.51! On top of that where are the apps for ecomstation?? Oh yea that's right, Open Office and other Open Source applications originally created for Linux. LOL! Now I must admit I was a big OS2 fan but at this point it's outdated, that is why ATM companies are going to Windows and leaving OS2.

Please do a little better research before you come at me with lame half truths. Unlike some people you may talk to I in my JOB for a living test and recommend software and Operating Systems for use at the Government Agency that I work for. I support Windows environments, Linux environments and Unix environments. I don't know everything but I have used darn near everything!

RE: Exactly
by bil on Thu 29th Jan 2004 13:38 UTC

>Oh and I hear tell them MS my discontinue Office for Mac! Now what you gonna do?? LOL! Use Open Office cause Apple has no Office Suite.

No, I think I might just carry right on using the Appleworks suite that came with my mac, for a non-existant office suite it does a very fine job with my university assignments.

>It's bad when the business model of a computer company is to make money selling music and IPODS and not computer software and equipment!

Why is it bad?

RE: Exactly
by Marcus Sundman on Thu 29th Jan 2004 13:50 UTC

You people are so far off-topic that from where you are the topic must look like a dot.

RE: Exactly
by Tyrone Miles on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:10 UTC

LOL! And I assume you never plan to send documents to anyone that is not using a Mac? Apple works is not very useable. Not even close to Open Office. And Star Office kills it dead.

And why is their business model bad. Because less support for the Mac means that if it becomes a drag on their other businesses guess where the Mac will wind up? Not part of Apple anymore. Got to answer to those share holders you know. And then what, remember Aqua is proprietary and if Apple stops making the Mac, or at lease throws it on the side burner then all the Mac users are stuck with nothing. Unlike with Linux, take Red Hat for example their OS is open source, when they stopped supporting it they gave it to the Fedora project and it's looking and feeling better now then when Red Hat had it.

I mean I am not saying Windows and Mac don't have their place and are not good at all. Like I said I support Windows 2000/XP systems for a living along with Linux and Unix. But what I am trying to say is that Linux in the same breath is not as bad as people make it out to be and most of the problems people have with Linux are with older versions or with versions not designed for novice users.

But Marcus you are right we are WAY off subject. Sorry. :-( That is enough from me.

Windows and MacOS
by bbrv on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:49 UTC

Well, actually both MacOS and Windows run through emulation of the Pegasos. Here are a couple screenshots:

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=250

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=199

Feel free to browse through the Gallery. You will discover we have a few industrious and creative users!

R&B

Mac On Linux and Pegasos
by magnetic on Thu 29th Jan 2004 16:22 UTC

Good Point BBRV

We are running Mac On Linux on the Pegasos 2 with the latest build of MOL and OSX Panther! It runs fantastic on the Pegasos2 G4@1ghz w/DDR Ram. You can use USB devices and burn CDs, you can even use an IPOD with firewire and Itunes! Pretty cool. Not only that but we run Debian Linux and you can just swap screens over to the Linux desktop or you can run the MOL window right on the linux desktop.
Not only that but the Pegasos2 here Dual Boots into MorphOS as well. And i have to say (this is OS news) that Morphos is one of the most fun, exciting Operating Systems I've used in my life. It takes alot of the great features of Amiga OS and Linux and makes magic!
We had one Pegasos1 machine here with 6 operating Systems running on it! Now thats Cool.


Six Operating Systems!
by bbrv on Thu 29th Jan 2004 16:47 UTC

Magnetic, which six operating systems do you have installed on that one system?

...and THANKS for the comment!

R&B

SIX!
by Matt on Thu 29th Jan 2004 18:51 UTC

bbrv, here's the list! ;)

*) MorphOS

*) Linux

SuSE, Mandrake, or any distro with our kernel patch.

Debian and Gentoo have special support in installers
and kernel packages respectively.

*) OpenBSD (3.4)

Dale Rahn is working his little behind off for us on
this ;)

.. under emulation under some of those systems:

*) MacOS 8 thru 10.2 (MacOnLinux, great performance)
*) Windows (Bochs via Linux or MorphOS)
*) AmigaOS (UAE via Linux or MorphOS)

MorphOS is also broadly AmigaOS-compatible, so UAE is
really just for games and demos you miss from your
childhood ;)

.. also in development to run natively with no
modifications, there are these, but not actually 100%
complete or are complete but not available commercially:

*) QNX Momentics
*) FreeBSD
*) NetBSD
*) AROS (Amiga Research OS)
*) Knoppix LiveCD!

.. so that's more than 6. Technically this is the list for
the original Pegasos board, but work is well underway for
the second board (the changes are minor)

=Neko=

Skip Linux discussion?
by XBe on Thu 29th Jan 2004 20:32 UTC

What does Linux ATM's have to do with Genesi workstation??

As so many others said before... Linux Zealots... slashdot --> www.slashdot.org

While at it, nice to hear if I provided a new idea to you Genesi guys.

I really hope you make it, and PLEASE don't put to much faith into the Linux hype, make it polished, make it work good and aim for quality customers who can consider paying... that's another hot tip for you..

Who said it was JUST Linux?
by Neko on Thu 29th Jan 2004 20:46 UTC

You, and any company or organisation or individual, can use the Pegasos for whatever you like. Workstations, thin clients, kiosks, nuclear power plant controllers.. the whole kaboodle, with whatever OS you choose.

We don't put all of our eggs in the Linux basket, we have our own OS (MorphOS) too, but we won't force customers to use ANYTHING they don't want to ;)

=Neko=

RE: lame half truths LOL!!!
by Ronald on Thu 29th Jan 2004 23:01 UTC

@Tyrone Miles
"IBM and Amazon.com run all their webbased business on Linux?" blah blah blah. What an uninformed newbie. Amazon isn't a 100% Linux shop. And IBM run some of their stuff on mainframes and midrange (RS/6000 too IIRC). lol

Novell is a dead company trying to feed off the linux Hype. They had no idea what to do with their past office products, what make you think they'll know what to do with SUSE and Ximian? BTW right now, the Microsoft salespersons are pimping away the last Fortune 500 Novell servers. ;)

When you can't get Samba to work in Linux, you're done for. It's going to google and the console for you. Like I SAID, Windows 95 has more polish than all Linux distros. Maybe next year, when they figure out that it's not adding more editors and file managers that is going to enhance their Desktops. Linux doesn't even have the basic stuff done properly. BeOS is a better desktop OS than Linux. OS/2 is a better desktop OS than Linux. But to the blind biased Linux fanatic, we tell them this and they still don't get it.

And with LongHorn, they'll bury Linux on the Desktop for good. lol

If you want UNIX for the Desktop, STOP being cheap and get a Mac! They're pretty cheap now. ;)

You should head back to Slashdot.org with the other Linux fanatics.

Ron, I agree...
by TorQ on Fri 30th Jan 2004 03:21 UTC

I am a desktop USER that is eagerly awaiting the M$ replacement. I have tried 4 different Linux distros thus far and based on my experience I have to agree with Ron. Linux isn't ready for the desktop. Hardware recognition problems aside , installing programs on Linux is its biggest problem. I find myself more ambitious than average computer users but the hurdles I still have to make to use Linux is still to much of a problem. Until there is an EASY to use standard packaging format or repository that EVERY software developer adheres to, Linux will remain out of reach for most. Unfortunatly, I'll be resigned to using Free Software on a non free OS until then.

TorQ

RE: lame half truths LOL!!!
by Tyrone Miles on Fri 30th Jan 2004 04:07 UTC

Here we go off subject and off the mark again! Let me just settle this back and forth once and for all by showing that again PEOPLE don't read and don't know what they are talking about!

This is what RONALD said "Amazon isn't a 100% Linux shop"

Yet in this article from 2001:
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275155.html?legacy=cnet

It says "update Online retailer Amazon.com shaved millions of dollars from its technology costs last quarter by switching to the Linux operating system, a disclosure that could provide some guidance for other companies seeking to cut expenses in a stagnant economy.

In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the e-commerce giant said it was able to cut technology expenses by about 25 percent, from $71 million to $54 million.

The reduction was attributed primarily to Amazon's "migration to a Linux-based technology platform that utilizes a less-costly technology infrastructure, as well as general price reductions for data and telecommunication services due to market overcapacity," according to the filing.

In a related development, an Intel executive said Tuesday that the Napster file-swapping service and Linux inspired the company to overhaul some of its technology infrastructure.

Amazon's disclosure could provide hard data for Linux proponents who have long argued that the open-source software can save corporations money over the alternatives, such as Unix and Microsoft's various Windows products. A Microsoft representative, however, warned that short-term savings seen by Amazon could turn into a long-term increase in costs.

Linux, a 10-year-old clone of the Unix operating system and a competitor to Windows, burst onto the scene in the late 1990s and now is an established force in the computing industry even though many companies pushing it are faltering. A recent study found that Linux is more powerful than some versions of Unix, but Linux in businesses is used more often on lower-end servers than on the powerful machines at the heart of large companies. But because Linux is essentially a clone of Unix, it's a more natural candidate to replace Unix than the dissimilar Windows.

Linux, which is developed by numerous volunteer programmers and companies, has some major pricing advantages.

"We've recently...found that Linux--if you look at the overall cost of ownership including the hardware, software, staffing, and purchasing and retirement costs--ends up being significantly less expensive than Unix over a three-year period for things like Web serving," said IDC analyst Dan Kusnetzky.

Half the price tag
For 1,000 users tapping into a Linux server, the total cost is about a fifth to a half that of a Unix system, Kusnetzky said. The cost of administering a Linux system is about the same percentage of the overall cost for a Unix or Windows server, he added.

Cutting expenses is certainly important for Amazon right now. The company trimmed its losses by 30 percent in the third quarter, posting a net loss of $170 million. Amazon has pledged that it will be profitable on a pro forma basis by the fourth quarter, and with revenue inching up only $1 million from the year-ago quarter to $639 million, every little bit helps.

According to Internet research firm Netcraft, Amazon's Web pages are dished out by Linux servers running Red Hat's Stronghold Web server, a derivative of the open-source Apache project."

Wow and if I search harder I know I have read that Amazon is using it on the desktop also.

And again you come at me from a lack of knowlage because Xandros and Lindows have great tools for intergrating into Windows networks. Again I go back to the fact that I support Windows, Linux and Unix. I use my Lindows machine 24/7. It works great! People say the boot up is slow, but shoot I only boot the thing once a month or so, no rebooting. No running around like a chicken with my head cut off when the Mydoom comes gunning for ya! LOL!

And we know the IBM now has it's own Linux version called Blue Linux which they plan to have all their desktop users on by next year.

Everyone is saying that LongHorn is going to kill Linux. LOL! When ever it's released. We only hope that it's better then just an XP upgrade. We also hope it doesn't cost $350 dollars when it comes out. But with XP costing $299 US dollars for the full Pro version and $199 for the home version I don't seeing Longhorn being much less then $350. So hey if you love it that much that you are willing to pay Microsoft that kind of doe (Or you just steal it like most people do anyway) Remember this, your use of MP3's will be restricted, the License key will be harder to get around and your PC will be sending data back to MS on everything you do. LOL! (Which XP already does) (good luck!)

And now back to the subject.

RE: lame half truths LOL!!!
by Tyrone Miles on Fri 30th Jan 2004 04:19 UTC

I hate to ramble but I got something even better then the Amazon article I posted above.

Here is a newer article from Amazon about Linux:http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5145482.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj...

Let me quote" How Amazon puts Linux to the test

Last modified: January 22, 2004, 11:52 AM PST
By Stephen Shankland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com


NEW YORK--It's not the first time Amazon.com has proclaimed its support for Linux, but it's the most detailed.

At the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo here, Amazon Vice President of Infrastructure Tom Killalea described in detail Wednesday how the online retailer is using the open-source operating system in nearly every corner of its business."

Wow, nearly every corner of it's business. The BIGGEST online retailer BRAGGING about using Linux. Shocking.

"Amazon's Linux systems also are the basis for the e-commerce engine the company sells to other retailers, including Toys "R" Us, Target, Borders Group, Nordstrom, The Gap, CDNow and the National Basketball Association. "

Wow. And all there other MAJOR companies use Linux too. Even more shocking. LOL!

I rest my peace.

Now let me find someone who went from Linux over to Windows? Hummmm, let's see how many you can drum up?