Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 29th Jan 2004 07:03 UTC
Linux Here you can download Yellow Dog Linux 3.0 version for the AmigaOne/Teron series of motherboards, AmigaWorld reports.
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now
by burntash on Thu 29th Jan 2004 07:15 UTC

all i need is yellowdog to come out with its new version to support my new ibook g4! anyone know when the next release is?

i assume the amigaone's are ppc based?
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jan 2004 07:38 UTC

does Mac On Linux run on it?

be kinda neat to be able to run os-x, amiga-os and linux on the same machine.

hmmm
by poundsmack on Thu 29th Jan 2004 07:56 UTC

yes mac on linux should work just fine.......when will the pegasos be officialy suported?

Re: now
by Dan Burcaw on Thu 29th Jan 2004 08:12 UTC

burntash: email me and I'll point you to a URL for
YDL 3.0.1 ISOs for iBook G4.

-Dan

RE: i assume the amigaone's are ppc based?
by Bodie on Thu 29th Jan 2004 09:28 UTC

MOL runs fine on it.

With respect, nevermind Yellowdog
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jan 2004 13:31 UTC

nobody is going to buy an AmigaOne motherbord just to run Linux. It's AmigaOS4 people want. Will it ever be released? The saga has gone on for a full ten years now.

re: With respect, nevermind Yellowdog
by rain on Thu 29th Jan 2004 13:54 UTC

If I was to buy an AmigaOne I'd be happy about the fact that linux would run on it since the outlook for OS4 doesn't look that bright at the moment.

re: With respect, nevermind Yellowdog
by Mr. Banned on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:03 UTC

the outlook for OS4 doesn't look that bright at the moment.

As opposed to when? OS4's been a no-show for what? 4+ years now?

Seriously though, this is great news for the MB manufacturer's. I'm sure they're taking a helluva beating seeing as OS4's nowhere to be seen yet. It's obvious that their hardware can run other OS's, but they've got that albatrss named 'Amiga' hanging from their neck, so everyone writes them off as "hardware for a non-existant OS".

At least now their product's useful. Now if they could just ditch the stigma of the Amiga, they might be able to play catch up with the Pegasos board.

A little PPC competition might bring the prices on these boards down a bit as well.

re: With respect, nevermind Yellowdog
by rain on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:21 UTC

As opposed to when? OS4's been a no-show for what? 4+ years now?

Exactly, but you didn't know that four year ago right? The future looked a whole lot brighter back then. Now competition is a lot harder with both linux and windows shaping up and Zeta/OpenBeOS, which are the closest thing you'll get to the Amiga on X86 (besides Amithlon), are closer to the public than AmigaOS is.

re: With respect
by hairyneanderthal on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:29 UTC

With respect... I don't quite see how the outlook for OS4 is that bad? OS4 has been demonstrated working on the AmigaOne at numerous (albeit mostly minor) events at the end of last year. It can't be called vapourware at this stage anyway....
Also a beta version has been promised for AmigaOne owners early this year, and from what I have seen in relevant forums it seems this *IS* going to happen and that delays at the moment are more to do with logistics than than lack of OS4.
I am not looking through this through rose-coloured glasses, I bought my AmigaOne when the chances of getting OS4 were looking pretty slim... but thought it might be cool to have a PPC motherboard...
However recently, what with the demonstrations and promises of a beta OS4 it looks like something might happen... what?... I don't know yet...


Anyway, back on topic... I have been playing with YellowDogLinux.. and the PDF included in the link needs serious updating I think to get a working installation of YDL with the AmigaOne motherboard...

Re: With respect
by Don Cox on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:35 UTC

"the outlook for OS4 doesn't look that bright at the moment.

As opposed to when? OS4's been a no-show for what? 4+ years now?"

More like 9 years, but the current development team does seem to be doing an excellent job, and at least a usable beta is genuinely near to release, for owners of the A1 PPC-based motherboards.

For a large part of those 9 years, the owners were convinced that an update to OS4 was not technically or financially possible. It is only in the past couple of years that any real serious work has been done - although some useful enhancements were made for versions 3.5 and 3.9.

Various people can be (and have been) justly criticized for making absurdly optimistic announcements of how soon version 4.0 could be released.

Yellow Dog Linux 3.0 for AmigaOne
by Henry Keultjes on Thu 29th Jan 2004 14:38 UTC

If the people producing these PowerPC based Amiga boards bring the price down enough, they could be a boon for Linux, as I wrote in "Perfect Pair - PowerPC and Desktop Linux" email hblastnameatearthlinkdotnet for the unabridged version.

The big difference between x86 and PowerPC is that PowerPC builds a pyramid right side up whereas x86 software has to struggle building a pyramid on its peak. Most of the PPCLinux software is not taking advantage of the superior PowerPC *potential*. That requires much more than a gcc PPC port.

Henry Keultjes
Database Scientifics
Mansfield Ohio USA

Waring
by TruthMaker on Thu 29th Jan 2004 17:05 UTC

Warning!

You can't use your hardware a 100% with the AOne, the Northbridge is buggy and can't handle DMA correctly (Data trashed).
Pegasos (I or II) is cheaper and does handle DMA.

It should not be to hard to make an install boot image using current Linux Pegasos kernel sources.
It may already be possible using current (non official) image.

link http://linux.pegasosppc.com

Bye

Re: Warning
by Don Cox on Thu 29th Jan 2004 18:14 UTC

"You can't use your hardware a 100% with the AOne, the Northbridge is buggy and can't handle DMA correctly (Data trashed)."

This is a very controversial topic.

Some say the problem is not in the chip itself but is a bug in Linux, or to be exact a new feature in the chip which is not yet supported by Linux. If so, it will be interesting to see if this new version of YDL fixes it.

Warning Back
by TruthMaker on Thu 29th Jan 2004 18:26 UTC

Hi !

I do hope it will be fixed in software, but I can't be optimistic...
Anyway, if it's a *wonderful" feature (and not a bug), why MAI itself is not able to release a working Linux kernel ? Why it took them more than 1 year to find that the pb came from a feature ?

PS: the MAI's ArticiaS was release a long time ago

Bye

Re: Warning
by Don Cox on Thu 29th Jan 2004 19:32 UTC

"I do hope it will be fixed in software, but I can't be optimistic...
Anyway, if it's a *wonderful" feature (and not a bug), why MAI itself is not able to release a working Linux kernel ?"

Well, maybe they have this time. I await tests with interest. (I don't have an AmigaOne myself.)

I agree that it is strange that the problem wasn't sorted out long ago. But long-standing bugs are quite common in the computer industry.

re: With respect, nevermind Yellowdog
by Mike Bouma on Thu 29th Jan 2004 20:26 UTC

@ hairyneanderthal

> I'm sure they're taking a helluva beating seeing as
> OS4's nowhere to be seen yet

As there have been dozens of AmigaOS4 demonstration around the globe last year IMO you are exaggerating quite a bit.

A big upcoming fair will take place on the 3 of April, 2004. There are high hopes for this event and more information is yet to be announced.

http://www.amigbg.com/

There have been various reasons why the project has taken longer than expected, such as changes in project management, limited resources requiring developers to work on alternative projects, unexpected additional work (AmigaOne BootROM development) for the two main developers, additional AmigaOS4 features, etc. Believe me the AmigaOS4 team wants to see this project finished more than anyone else. OS4 is their life's work.

With regard to the ever repeating Articia S claims (Believe me the alternatives aren't bugfree neither, but I am proud that Amiga enthusiasts don't seem to have the need to repeat that fact at every oppertunity). The rare (I know people who have been using their AmigaOne with DMA enabled for months without problems) incompatibility between the Linux kernel and Articia's way of handling DMA access took a long time to be discovered due to various reasons, such as other Southbridge related issues which caused DMA problems and a lack of Southbridge documentation. According to Alan Redhouse and the AmigaOS4 team there will be or is a patch available for Linux and this will be a non-issue for AmigaOS4 when the project is completed:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=3&rev_...

re: respect
by Mr. Banned on Thu 29th Jan 2004 20:52 UTC

As opposed to when? OS4's been a no-show for what? 4+ years now?

Exactly, but you didn't know that four year ago right?


Actually, I was an Amiga 500 owner from days of old, so I had a really good idea, after seeing how the Amiga had been handled for the previous 10 years, that this was going to be more "nothing" in the name of Amiga.

Seriously... Commodore shot it in the heart, and every owner since has just been heaving dirt on the Amiga's once proud corpse.

Mike, I know you're a big proponent of the Amiga, but come on:

As there have been dozens of AmigaOS4 demonstration around the globe last year IMO you are exaggerating quite a bit.

He would have been had OS4 just been announced last year. So lessee... So you're saying that several demonstrations of an unavailable product that's been promised for more than 4 years is somehow indicative of a lot of momentum???

Come on... Even you can't be that insanely optimistic. 8)=

Believe me the AmigaOS4 team wants to see this project finished more than anyone else. OS4 is their life's work.

While I can appreciate that there's people out there who have devoted way too much of their life to this dying platform, I don't hold too much sympathy for them.

As it is, with OS4 being 3+ years overdue, when/if it is released, it will not only be outdated, but think about how long people who spend their hard earned cash on it will have to wait to see any updates, much less OS5.

As the saying goes, either s***t or get off the pot.

Amiga should have wiped and moved on years ago...

re: respect
by Don Cox on Thu 29th Jan 2004 21:12 UTC

"As it is, with OS4 being 3+ years overdue, when/if it is released, it will not only be outdated,"


A better way to put it is that OS3 is outdated, and OS4.0 will be much less outdated than OS3. It is mainly a matter of writing drivers for current hardware, but there are also substantial enhancements to the kernel.

Yes, there is still a way to go. Many people have advised giving up. Amiga users are an obstinate bunch.

re: respect
by Mike Bouma on Thu 29th Jan 2004 21:13 UTC

@ Mr. Banned

> Come on... Even you can't be that insanely optimistic. 8)=

I believe even you cannot be that "insanely" pessimistic to claim that AmigaOS4 is nowhere to be seen when there have been dozens of demonstration events and even various videos to show the project is real and at an advanced stage already.

Sure Haage & Partner's outlook on AmigaOS4 development was quite premature when the project was announced in 2001, as they changed their minds. Much later it was agreed however that Hyperion would manage the project and the project took longer than estimated by them due to the reasons stated above.

The currently available development tools and features leaves alot to be optimistic about. Not "insanely" optimistic as most Amiga ethusiasts, including me are quite realistic and see AmigaOS4 as a great hobby and not as a "defender of the faith", "everything else completely sucks" kind of thing.

re: respect
by TruthMaker on Thu 29th Jan 2004 22:29 UTC

Well,

About kernel "improvement":
Some says it's more a kernel destruction...

It's not really possible to implement all they said without breaking compatibility, look the MacOS series:
Apple decided to build a really "new" OS using a free UNIX kernel and to put the MacOS "classic" in a box because it was not possible to have both old app compatibility and a modern OS. They succeded

There is the same story with Microsoft: Win 9x/ME and the NT based Windows (NT4/2k/XP) (with less succes :-) ).

Bye

re: respect
by Don Cox on Thu 29th Jan 2004 22:40 UTC

"About kernel "improvement":
Some says it's more a kernel destruction...

It's not really possible to implement all they said without breaking compatibility"

From what I hear, the programs that work with graphics and sound cards work on AOS 4. The ones that expect to see Amiga custom chips do not.

So it is not, as yet anyway, as compatible as the UAE emulation. Hopefully a chip emulation may be added to AOS 4 later.

I haven't heard of any programs not working because of the kernel changes.

re: respect
by hairyneanderthal on Fri 30th Jan 2004 00:14 UTC

@Mike Bouma

>@ hairyneanderthal

>> I'm sure they're taking a helluva beating seeing as
>> OS4's nowhere to be seen yet

I think that should be @Mr. Banned.... I was arguing in favour of OS4

re: respect
by Mike Bouma on Fri 30th Jan 2004 12:40 UTC

@ hairyneanderthal

Oops, you are right. :-)