Linked by Henrik Nilsen Omma on Tue 9th Mar 2004 05:48 UTC
GNU, GPL, Open Source You, the reader, are hereby invited to participate in a celebration of Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) on August 28th this year. On that day we will stage public events to inform the general public about the virtues of FOSS. We invite you to form local teams and set up tables in town centers, shopping malls, or wherever there are likely to be lots of people on a Saturday.
Order by: Score:
Libre
by dpi on Tue 9th Mar 2004 06:32 UTC

You mention the word Libre. You call it FOSS: Free and Open Source Software. Later you're talking about how "free" means "gratis" in English. Some people, including me, use FLOSS instead of FOSS. The L stands for Libre which is the French word for Liberty. Liberty -in contrast to Free- has only one meaning according to my English dictionary. Therefore, i use the term FLOSS instead.

Btw thanks for the news item i didn't knew about it yet. At least there's time for organising something. Almost half a year till D-Day! Feels rather.. o.. f.. libre ;)

I'll celebrate by...
by Anonymous on Tue 9th Mar 2004 06:35 UTC

giving away copies of Knoppix ;)

Cost of a cd $0.10
Freedom from MS: priceless

hmmm
by foo on Tue 9th Mar 2004 07:20 UTC

giving away liveCDs? That's a cool idea. You may want to include a sleeve that has the knoppix cheat codes for n00bs tho ;)

v I hate "FREE" word!
by BlackTiger on Tue 9th Mar 2004 07:58 UTC
I hate the *implication*...
by Solar on Tue 9th Mar 2004 09:14 UTC

What *I* hate is the *implication* that non-copyleft software is somehow tainted, somehow non-free. Heck, I'm sometimes getting flamed for releasing code into the Public Domain because "that's not really 'free'". Really takes some twisted thinking, there...

underground radio
by javajazz on Tue 9th Mar 2004 10:51 UTC

so scarry! the internet turned into NBC+ and msnbc world report.

"In effect, the TCG specification will transfer the ultimate control of your PC from you to whoever wrote the software it happens to be running. (Yes, even more so than at present.)" I am giving ultimate control to the FOSS community by using freebsd5.2.1 (current installed distro)

My point is that I know nothing but the directions I have been reading. I have been using open source software for a couple of years now, from slackware to freebsd, in and out again. Yet, I am outside the OS community, I am the average joe stumbled across an interesting linux mag, found a slackware packaged cd for free (as in gratis). Beyond that I am putting no less Trust in the OS community of writers than I am in Bill G. FOSS must develop Trust also, because I am trusting you guys/developers to monitor yourselves and keep the internet wide open. (Restricting the internet is like putting a ceiling in the sky and telling me I can't fly. "Give me Liberty or give me death".)


FOSS is clearly needed by the average joes, moms and pops. and quickly. you will miss your chance by months in this environment. August seems to far away. How about a May Floss.
America is engaged currently in a subtle cold civil war and the results will greatly affect the outcome of the greater civil war. FOSS Is a Tool. Be a Trusted One. Sell the aaverage joe honesty, decency, liberty, freedom, and entertain us with both the low and more importantly the High.

If August it must be, oh well.

IF anything guys, please keep at least an alternative channel open, a second internet. you may have to provide free ISP service. Heck, I'll even pay for it if it comes down to it.

but I really believe that I should not have to have an ISP another object of Trust.
:-)

v Software Jailday?
by Anonymous on Tue 9th Mar 2004 10:57 UTC
RE: Software Jailday?
by Henrik on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:12 UTC

and RMS hailed the fellow softwarecommunists about how evil the corporations are because they want to make money.

Bill Thompson has a nice <a href=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3537165.stm>article</a&... in the BBC where he claims that the Microsoft model resembles the planned economy of Stalin, while the FOSS model better resembles the free market ;)

some suggestions
by Hugo on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:16 UTC

-stop using stupid acronyms like foss, floss, gnu/linux when adressing non-technical public.

-stop ranting about microsoft, in fact don't even mention them.

-stop talking about hackers.

-have a litle bit of marketing sence when adressing the public and try to look good: wear a suit and tie and drop the Che Guevara look (it really doesn't look good)

-get more women involved in open software projects, there's hardly any today.

-do not under any cirsumstance make any political comments.

RE: underground radio
by Henrik on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:19 UTC

If August it must be, oh well.

That might seem a long way off, but there are many things to prepare, CDs, posters, advertising, venues, speakers, etc.

RE: some suggestions
by Henrik on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:24 UTC

All well and good, but the main point is:

Start doing something! Writing comments about what others should do, in online forums that only techies will ever read, doesn't count.

RE: some suggestions
by javajazz on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:39 UTC

-I agree, just tell us "Mandrake, BSD, Fedora, BrandX. We like brand names. We pick favorites based on the Image you provide for us.

-Well, you can mention what you can do, that microsoft can't. but pay attention to above rule.

-sell to teenage hacker wanna bees. recruit. BrandX can ignore rule number 1 above. "Teenage Wasteland, they are waisted"

-if you put on a suit and tie I may not buy. Maybe Mandrake can wear the suit and tie. St. Louis!!

-I like woman. but it is not mandatory.

-it's not about the money.

show some muscle
by javajazz on Tue 9th Mar 2004 11:51 UTC

BeOS+, Is August to soon?

Re: Re: The Software Jailday
by Anonymous on Tue 9th Mar 2004 12:58 UTC

Bill Thompson has a nice "Broken URL" in the BBC where he claims that the Microsoft model resembles the planned economy of Stalin, while the FOSS model better resembles the free market ;)

So let me guess, is it because he is a journalist he is correct or is it because it tries to put down on Microsoft? If he'd write the opposite, wouldn't you discourage it as "FUD" or "Trolling" or whatever the RMS fan club use as comments.

Howabout start thinking for yourself and making that comparison? Oh I forgot, if people would do that, this movement would already have been dead, just like many sects would never have any place in this world etc etc etc...

Re: rants and trolls.
by dpi on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:15 UTC

"and RMS hailed the fellow softwarecommunists about how evil the corporations are because they want to make money."

Freedom, not price. You missed the entire point. FSF has no problem with ie. IBM or RedHat or even themselves earning money because of FLOSS.

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Commercial
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#ProprietarySoftware
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#TOCcommercialSoftware
https://agia.fsf.org/

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#accent
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#equivocation

"-stop using stupid acronyms like foss, floss, gnu/linux when adressing non-technical public."

Why? Stupid?

"-stop ranting about microsoft, in fact don't even mention them."

Why?

"-stop talking about hackers."

Why?

"-have a litle bit of marketing sence when adressing the public and try to look good: wear a suit and tie and drop the Che Guevara look (it really doesn't look good)"

Why? Open source addresses the marketing. It has been fairly succesful, given that since the terms creation and publishing of the Cathedral and the Bazaar corporations like Netscape, Oracle, Sun, IBM, and loads more adapted the "open source" model. Anything else?

"-get more women involved in open software projects, there's hardly any today. "

Proof? Why do you suggest positive discrimination and how would you prefer to address it?

"-do not under any cirsumstance make any political comments."

Why?

Ranting is your hobby, right? There is a difference between a suggestion and a Suggestion. The first one is nothing but whining and ranting, in this case without providing necessary resources. The second one contains resources, proof, is worked out with logic and therefore valuable. It's not that black/white, but i'd argue your post is one which fits in the former category.

Re: The Software Jailday
by Henrik on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:15 UTC

So let me guess, is it because he is a journalist he is correct or is it because it tries to put down on Microsoft?

No, the reason his article is funny is that claims have traditionally been made that FOSS is communism/bad-for-the-economy/un-american, which is clearly nonsense. He turns the discussion on its head by pointing out that the big monopolies are closer to communism with their central planning and control.

v Free software?
by BlackTiger on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:31 UTC
@Henrik
by Roy Batty on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:37 UTC

Bill Thompson is a joke. It's ironic that he calls Microsoft stalinist-like, but his answer for every problem in the world is more and more government intrusion and regulation.

RE: @Henrik
by Henrik on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:48 UTC

Bill Thompson is a joke. It's ironic that he calls Microsoft stalinist-like, but his answer for every problem in the world is more and more government intrusion and regulation.

Yes, I agree that his point about government regulating the software industry in the same way as water and electricity is going too far. However, it is clear from the poor settlement of the Microsoft/Netscape antitrust case that at least the US government is currently failing to curb what is an obvious monopoly with the currently available laws. The laws are probably fine, but the system is all to susceptible to lobbying and legal tricks.

RE: some suggestions (HUGO)
by Karl on Tue 9th Mar 2004 13:58 UTC

Presenting anything concerning computers/computer software in any kind of public venue inheritly presupposes a certain degree of technical interest-computers and their software are technical-even if many people fail to recognize their own technical prowess even in such mundane things like manipulating a mouse-pointing at objects and clicking. Computers and software are already associated with work-and any degree of knowledge which is required to successfully do such work is, in the last instance, technical knowledge, even in those cases where the people barely grasp what they are doing.

Going overboard with "technical" talk, talk where numbers, empirical facts, specifications and features are dominant can indeed overhwelm the targeted(ie. general public) audience and turn them off. Yet without such acronyms, ie. the identity of said such groups who shall be presenting, such a presentation would be pointless. When microsoft presents their new products to the market people listen because it is microsoft-this is name recognition-virtually everyone who has ever used a computer in the last 20 years has heard of microsoft and know that Windows and Office/Word/Excel are microsoft products.

When microsoft annnounces new software people know this means changes, changes in how they work. In this context getting name recognition is profoundly difficult- for most people there is only one piece of software which is always present on all computers that they use-and that is microsoft-most people don't tend to differentiate between operating systems,applications and platforms-microsoft is at once a platform with multiple differing implementations(ie. operating systems) which provides a fairly consisent environment for a variety of applications.

Promoting FLOSS software is difficult when the targeted audience only speaks windowese and use that as standard of measurement to judge everything else by. In offices where people use Wordperfect the users tend to know that it's not from microsoft, but it is still a windows program, it looks and acts like most of the rest of the software to which one is already accustomed. Microsoft is effectively the BIOS of most computers-and many people believe that it is built into the computer-ie. that it is a part of the computer itself. They never see computers without word processing applications so word processing applications, be they Word or Wordperfect are quasi built-ins.

The only name recognition of products for Windows, which are not from microsoft, for most users are very specific task bound pieces of software which are distinctly different than the rest of the system. People tend to know generic concepts like browser, word processing, spreadsheet programs, etc. Most users don't care which brand of software they are using as long as it doesn't present them with to many hurdles,ie. moments where they can't do this or that like they could in that other program. Why ?. Because the different companies producing propietary software are not selling anything different than microsoft. Huh? They are just yet another company selling yet another program which does the same thing, costs the same ammount (relatively), which offers the same (basically) functionality which are used for the same purposes.

This is where FLOSS comes into play-
Firstly, they are not selling something-such software is not first and foremost about making money/marketing and selling products and are not usually associated with a particular company or nationality.

Secondly, much of their offerings are platform independent and independent of particular operating systems-meaning that in many cases the same software runs on windows, macintosh or *nix systems-which means you can use the same software at home that you do at the office without having to have the same system at home which was provided to you by your employer and without having to spend large amounts of money to have this, or on any two computrs at work(ie. pirating software becomes pointless)

Thirdly, they are manifestations of different social structures which encourage user-participation,something unheard of in the propietary world, and which promote communities for exchange and feedback, enabling local communities and in-house communities for custom tailored software solutions, which are interconnected internationally drawing from vast resources of human potentital.

Fourthly, such software can be implemented in ways which enable new combinations and interactivity which go beyond the copy and paste functionality of windows-something which enable those users who who desire to do so to develop their own working combinations of applications which streamline what they need and desire to do without being utterly dependent upon the built-in functions of the propietary software.

FLOSS encourages ordinary user to be more than mere ordinary users. So yet again how is it that such software should differentiate itself from their propietary siblings ? Oh Mozilla has a pop-up blocker, but hey you know IE 8.0 has pop-up blockers too......OpenOffice has PDF export but hey at work we have Acrobat distiller....

The advantages which FLOSS software offer are anything but obvious for the ordinary user. Those who promote FLOSS have a difficult task: thesy must at once a) offer the same functionality which there propietary sibilings offer with positive points of differentiation which makes them "better" and b) provide the whole wealth of things which accompany FLOSS development-things which are unimaginable in the propietary world- things which however taken together alter the economics, politics, and social enviroment in which software is developed and used.

It is the culmanitve effects, taken over time, which show the true benefits of FLOSS-those who promote this are asking users to have patience with the the current shortcommings in order to realize potentials which are just now surfacing. The ramifications of these developments are political, are economic, are social. In a future where FLOSS comprises 50% of the used applications in the work world know one will be wondering where the suppossed benefits are due to the fact that questions will have changed-those questions which dominate the workspace computer usage today, questions about compatibility, about format interchangability, etc. will be surplanted with new questions like which combination of tools is best suited for this particular set of goals defined by this set of possibilities enables by the use of open-seemless platform/format interchangability-or questions like-hey what are the municipal offices of Paris using to manage there new subway timetable publications-can we use their code here in New York coupled with those modifications which the transit authority of Chicago implemented last year?


FLOSSmeans more local employment, more local development, more in-house expertise, more programming jobs, more economic and political independence, more sharing of experience and expertise, more communication and more international communities of exchange, more transparent governmental investments, more accountability, more particiaption of users, more people working together for common goals and less petty infighting, NIH, value through obscurity, need-to-know rigid communication hierarchies, etc, and less computer "drones" who must perform mind-numbing brain dead simple tasks. The Whole, which is greater than the sum of its parts, is what is being changed in the transition to FLOSS solutions.

When the things I have talked about here are what FLOSSis really all about-how would you promote such to cynical, disillusioned, apathetic drones,ie. workspace computer users ? Your suggestions are worthless in this context although I too would like to see more women involved in these developments ;) .

@ dpi
by Hugo on Tue 9th Mar 2004 14:04 UTC

1 Because acronyms scare non technical people away and plus it's boring just reading them.
2 Because talking about MS doesn't do any favors, instead try to focus on the merits of what you have to offer.
3 The same reason why people avoid hare krishnas at airport: they look weird!
4 Do really need proof that there is hardly any women contributing to open source projects and yesterday was the international womens day
5 Because software isn't about politics, it's about just that: software!

Re: unamerican
by Jack Perry on Tue 9th Mar 2004 14:14 UTC

the reason his article is funny is that claims have traditionally been made that FOSS is communism/bad-for-the-economy/un-american, which is clearly nonsense.

Where exactly have these charges been made? I'm not doubting you; I would just like to read them for myself.

Re: Re: The Software Jailday
by Drill Sgt on Tue 9th Mar 2004 14:34 UTC

"Bill Thompson has a nice "Broken URL" in the BBC where he claims that the Microsoft model resembles the planned economy of Stalin, while the FOSS model better resembles the free market"

Try this one then. If you would have looked at the URL you would have known it was not quite right. Correct URL, just a formatting error is all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3537165.stm>

Re: Re: The Software Jailday
by Drill Sgt on Tue 9th Mar 2004 14:36 UTC

bah, I made the same posting mistake. Here it is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3537165.stm

@ Hugo
by dpi on Tue 9th Mar 2004 14:37 UTC

"1 Because acronyms scare non technical people away and plus it's boring just reading them."

Hmm. The latter is an opinion i don't agree with. It matters not, imo.

The former makes me wondering. What do you think XP and MacOSX are? Those are both acronyms.

"2 Because talking about MS doesn't do any favors, instead try to focus on the merits of what you have to offer."

MS (a boring acronym too?) is related with politics; see my answer at #5. MS's Gates was the one who proposed proprietary software back in the beginning of the 80's. No wonder he is seen as the enemy? MS markets against Linux, and possibly fundss SCO FUD campaign. Should "we" just ignore that, while they chose finally officially not to ignore "us"? Can't "talking about MS" and "focussing on the merits we have to offer" co-exist? Perhaps you can explain your point futher.

"3 The same reason why people avoid hare krishnas at airport: they look weird!"

Most of the time you don't see the developers.

"4 Do really need proof that there is hardly any women contributing to open source projects and yesterday was the international womens day"

Rather a statistic, a reason why it is important to raise the number, a reason why positive discrimination is okay (or, is, in this case).

''international womens day'' isn't an argument. I can easily use that to make my point regarding positive discrimination: "If women wish to decide and choice for themselves without receiving a special threat, thus being threated equal to men, then why should we on base of gender attract women more than men in the FLOSS community?"

"5 Because software isn't about politics, it's about just that: software!"

Politics is related to software. You don't have to look far. Take patents, copyright, SCO FUD as examples; would you claim those are not connected with politics?

Really, if you're not much concerned about poilitics i suggest '''joining'''* the "open source" or "OpenBSD" camp instead. The Free Software movement, part of the FLOSS/FOSS movement as a whole, IS partly about politics.

* Take that word with a grain of salt, it's figuraly meant.

Good example...
by WP on Tue 9th Mar 2004 15:09 UTC

The posts of Hugo and dpi are good examples of the type of approaches that would and wouldn't work with the general public. No offense to dpi or the points made (some of which I agree with), but that conversational tone would only reinforce the image of OSS advocates as inflexible, argumentative zealots. As we know, a few are, but these shouldn't be the people interacting with the general public. Hugo's suggestions (as opposed to Suggestions?) are reasonable, and I don't think he needs to back them up with numbers. If he were advocating some radical new direction for OSS, I'd put his opinions to more scrutiny, but in this case, I think its safe to relax... ;)

You aren't going to get someone to use OSS by babbling on about the evils of Gates or MS, or spinning tales of Darth McBride in his mother ship. Your potential recruit will only say "Huhhhhh?", forcing you to further babble about SCO, RMS, ESR, IBM, and perhaps other 3-letter acronyms in the hat. And this will get you an even louded "HUHHHH?" if they don't outright walk away.

My advice? Be nice, smile, answer questions, don't say anything negative. Don't act like you are converting someone to a "movement", just give them a copy of your favorite distro and tell them why you like it. Something that doesn't risk a HD wipeout would be good - maybe Knoppix or one of the other LiveCD's out there. A few people might be wary of viruses, but most will be genuinely curious about a free CD they are given, with promises of a cool new program or OS on it.

The absolute worst approach to getting OSS users is intimidation out of fear or moral necessity. Most people reserve those sorts of arguments for their religious beliefs, and when they hear it made about that little box on their desk - which isn't a central part of their lives - they tend to put you in the tinfoil hat crowd.

v Oh Barf!
by Fembot on Tue 9th Mar 2004 15:10 UTC
Zealotry & Why You Shouldn't Fear Free Software
by pixelmonkey on Tue 9th Mar 2004 15:15 UTC

Free software exists for the same reason blogs exist, for the same reason some people post their poetry and short stories on their websites instead of trying to get them published. They're having fun.

Why does everyone become a zealot on this issue? It just so happens that a lot of free software is very good, and so it gets a lot of support from the public. Just like I might think my friend's novel--though unpublished--is better than the crap Stephen King churns out on a regular basis for $$$mulah. Is my friend a communist because he gives his novel away for free? No. Is Stephen King a Stalinist? No.

Look to Lawrence Lessig and his wonderful brainchild Creative Commons for an understanding of why Free Software matters. It matters because it creates an open culture (a commons) in the sphere of technological development that isn't obstructed (too badly) by things like Intellectual Property law. Everyone is free to look at software, modify it (remix it), and get it redistributed. No one profits, but everyone wins, in a sense.

I think a lot of people who think Free Software is "crazy" don't really get it. It's crazy when Free Software developers claim that there should be NOTHING PROPRIETARY, or that their theory of software development is the One True Theory. But evangelists aside, Free Software is nothing more than a bunch of people who find programming enjoyable and challenging, and love the idea of creating an open, common project. This is a good thing. The world needs more projects like this (think Wikipedia, and how amazing that is; imagine what Diderot would say about _that_ project!).

Stop being zealots. Free software isn't communism, unless you think all creative acts are communism (in which case, you're just so short-sighted this post won't even help you).

My sincera applause! A sensible and balanced view!

I am currently choosing a OS to install beside WinXP on my AMD64 laptop (an Acer) and I am REALLY thinking about FreeBSD because of its license... The "idea" behind GPL creeps me out! Free IS good, but free as in free-to-do-what-the-hell-I-want-with-it-without-stepping-in-anybody's- toes, not as free-do-as-we-tell-you-to...

'free' software
by Anonymous on Tue 9th Mar 2004 16:46 UTC

I don't see why microsoft's OSes should be shut out from Free / Open Source software discussions - it isn't all about Linux and BSD after all. There are many excellent freeware titles available for Windows, and many of the most popular OpenSource projects have been ported to Windows.

The difference between free software and communism, is that no one's forcing developers to give their products away. That's the point - if you write a program you have the 'freedom' to market it commercially, release it as closed-source freeware, or release the source code under whichever license you choose. How is that communism?

Personally, I think the idea of a Free Software day is excellent, but it shouldn't be limited to alternative OSes. I've given away many CDs of freeware Windows software!

-Bob

@cfduarte
by Khadrin on Tue 9th Mar 2004 16:49 UTC

Hi. I think you misunderstand the GPL to some extent. I understand that you don't like restrictions on behavior that is not overtly harmful to others--even if it is anti-social behavior such as taking the hard work of volunteers created in a spirit of sharing, adding some extensions, and selling it back to them. I don't like such restrictions either.

However, the GPL is really a very pragmatic license. A few examples:
- The GPL has some advantages for a business that wants to harness the power of open development methods. The GPL makes it difficult for would-be competitors to use the embrace and extend approach. Most businesses adopt GPL-like licenses rather than BSD-like licenses when they choose an OSS license.
- The GPL leads to less permanent forking. Forks, especially in the short term, can be a good thing. Forks are a wonderful source of fresh ideas. One advantage the GPL has though, is that forks must also be GPLd, and so the innovations of each fork can always be combined (given enough time/effort) in new and interesting ways.
- The GPL protects our community. The proprietary software companies have all the advantages. They have the money, and they have the power. And they have unreasonable laws helping to maintain the status quo. (Century long Copyright for software is ridiculous.) The only thing that they don't have is an efficient development method. They have to reinvent the wheel over and over to move forward. We don't. When we use a BSD license in some ways we give up our one advantage.

I am not complaining about anyone using the BSD license or preferring it. Just presenting the other side. I hope you will reconsider your dislike of the GPL.

"Free software exists for the same reason blogs exist, for the same reason some people post their poetry and short stories on their websites instead of trying to get them published. They're having fun."

Wrong. The GNU project existed to positively benefit society by destroying proprietary software, a phenomenon which maintains a status quo and takes away our right to tinker. It's more than just "having fun," it's about the future of our world. Read the GNU Manifesto, read interviews with Stallman and other GNU developers.

From the Manifesto
by Bill Sykes on Tue 9th Mar 2004 17:55 UTC

"In the long run, making programs free is a step toward the post-scarcity world, where nobody will have to work very hard just to make a living. People will be free to devote themselves to activities that are fun, such as programming, after spending the necessary ten hours a week on required tasks such as legislation, family counseling, robot repair and asteroid prospecting. There will be no need to be able to make a living from programming."

What a scam. It seems to me that Stallman thinks everyone should program and attend "family counseling" for around 40+ hours a week. Sounds like an Orwellian nightmare to me.
Notice how you will be free to program for free. The key here is "there wil be no need to be able". Doublespeak if ever there was any.

free??
by pang on Tue 9th Mar 2004 18:29 UTC

With increasing technological efficiency in producing the goods we need including and beyond food clothing and shelter and less and less people required in jobs in this respect a divide is created - more and more - between those with jobs and those without jobs, those with means of consumption and those without.

A new morality is being developed among those without means that says that its alright to TAKE what one can when nothing is given and no opportunities exist for contribution and remuneration of any sort.

Of course, this all boils down to the growing problem of distribution of resources and wealth. What is needed is more genuine democracy and less corporatocracy. Better infomation is needed for this to occur. Trouble is that we mostly receive our information from media corporations. Catch-22

re: from the manifesto
by Kon on Tue 9th Mar 2004 18:30 UTC

The manifesto is full of orwellian and eutopian claptrap. I wish more people would wise up instead of just 'pushing the party line'. Exercise intelligence and make an informed decision -- don't go with the crowd because its the 'in thing' (M$ sucks, etc.) to do.

Amongst the other claptrap that this author spews, I particularly like the reasoning that FOSS is good because the community goes by a 'credit should be given where credit is due' set of ethics, and the inferral that FOSS is somehow better because any other type of software release has no set of ethics to back it up. Preposterous. (Just as a sidenote, I've had people rip stuff out of my GPL releases without giving credit. Once to the tune of having to compare file hashes. Yeah, real community spirit there.)

Releasing early and releasing often - another concept not exclusive to FOSS.

Don't get me wrong, GPL and FOSS is all good, just not in the run-away direction it is heading, which would be the 'new cause' for any geek that missed the banding-together 60's hippie movement.

re: free??
by Bill Sykes on Tue 9th Mar 2004 19:13 UTC

"A new morality is being developed among those without means that says that its alright to TAKE what one can when nothing is given and no opportunities exist for contribution and remuneration of any sort."

No that is an old morality. It is called stealing. Make your opportunities. Then contribute and you will be enumerated.

Otherwise you can go to prison. There you will be taken care of for free. Well you might get to work in the laundry if you are lucky.

"What is needed is more genuine democracy and less corporatocracy."

If you don't like the way it is, become a corporacrat and change things. Gee I can make up new words too. Isn't Orwellianism fun. Gee another escaped.

re: free??
by Narr! on Tue 9th Mar 2004 22:11 UTC

"No that is an old morality. It is called stealing. Make your opportunities. Then contribute and you will be enumerated.

Otherwise you can go to prison. There you will be taken care of for free. Well you might get to work in the laundry if you are lucky."

Depends how you look at. In these United States there once dwelt a people called the Native American and mistakenly labelled Indians by a bunch of retarded Europeans. In any event, they were here first, should have first claim to the land instead of being confined to reservations. "Indian Casinos" not withstanding, nobody's in a hurry to give the land back. Also nobody's in a hurry to at least compensate the decendants of slaves forcibly brought here. Theft is ALL in the eye of the beholder.

@ Narr!
by Bill Sykes on Tue 9th Mar 2004 22:31 UTC

Well since the Native Americans didn't even have a concept of ownership of property, how could we have taken thier ownership of said property from them?

Besides they diodn't even use an OS.

v RE: FLOSS
by Anonymous on Wed 10th Mar 2004 02:30 UTC
RE: Software Freedom Day
by Charles Curran on Thu 11th Mar 2004 03:12 UTC

Good idea! Good work!
Let's do all we can to get the message across.

There are various other FLOSS (open source/software libre) `marketing' activities underway or being planned around the world,
some by individuals, some by groups, some supported by vendors, others by (regional) governments (eg http://www.guadalinex.org/ distributing a further 100,000 CDs this year in Andalusia).

It is important that the (marketing) activity continues all year round.

We should use the last Saturday* in August to
continue the activity, especially in bringing it to the notice of those who may not yet have had the luck to enjoy FLOSS, and also
to celebrate some of the success stories and large scale activities.
It should also give the opportunity to build local support communities.

*Perhaps it should be extended over the weekend since Saturday will be (culturally) unsuitable for some.


Thanks, Henrik, Phil, Matt, et al.