Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 9th Jun 2004 01:10 UTC
Zeta ICO published a preview over the RC3 of Zeta 1.0, expected later this year. Among the clean ups, updated apps & drivers and bug fixes there is a new preference applet holder. YellowTAB re-created an embeddable preference framework, inspired by the one created in 2000 by Be (and more specifically by my husband, JBQ ;) and was destined to be part of the never-released next BeOS.
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Thanks for the note Eugenia
by rain on Wed 9th Jun 2004 02:35 UTC

I've actually been wondering who came up with that prefs container. Now I know ;)

Also, Jukebox is such a perfect example of what happends when you let a graphics designer design the interface and not an interface designer. It looks ok (although too much of an OSX ripoff) but the usability and use of screen real estate doesn't get many points in my book. You go this huuge area just for 8 buttons, two sliders and an info display. The size of those buttons would have been acceptable on a 1600x1200 display, but only if the rest of the UI was the same size, and it obviously isn't. I really hope that the Zeta version won't look like this.

That said, I think that Zeta is starting to shape up fairly well in certain areas. I like the new bootscreen and the prefs are actually quite nice.

v driers..
by Anonymous on Wed 9th Jun 2004 02:37 UTC
OSNewsing ICO
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 03:00 UTC

VZzzzzzzttttp!
That was it, ICO got OSNews'ed (again). Their server is down atm. ;-)

RE: OSNewsing ICO
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 03:02 UTC

Ah, it's back up now. ;)

How sad`
by troy banther on Wed 9th Jun 2004 04:14 UTC

I wish I could a get a copy of Zeta just to look at the licensing.

Hey, getting there?
by mario on Wed 9th Jun 2004 06:50 UTC

Maybe OsNews should do around of tests, too.However, ICO's review is to be highly regarded, as they tested the previous RC-es, too.

Actually, *I* would like to try it out, myself.

Hey, Eugenia, how should I configure Lilo to boot BeOS, do you know? I have lost contact with my BeOSpartition after I installed Linux, because I was a bit worried that I could screw up the lilo.conf.

RE: Hey, getting there?
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:01 UTC

As root, add this after the first few lines of /etc/lilo.conf

timeout = 500 #(that's in tenths of a second, so be quick when selecting from the menu)

Then add this to your bottom of your /etc/lilo.conf

label=BeOS
root=/dev/hda2 # or wherever your BeOS partition is
read-only

save the file and then run as root:
/sbin/lilo

Reboot, and BeOS should now be on your lilo menu.

Preferences app
by Mat on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:02 UTC

I knew it had to come to this... the fashinable "do it all in one place" preference app. Like having different preference utils in one preference folder isn't "in one place"! Personally, I loved BeOS separate preference programs, especially little utils like Screen or Background with a small window, staying on all workspaces. Somehow I find this universal preferences tool less practical, plus there is the question of flexibility - you always have to write plugins instead of simply writing a new pref util and it isn't as easy to make symlinks to various preference apps from your installations (application folders) when needed...

uhm
by fye on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:15 UTC

you still have the pref apps accessible in one fodler like it used to be, on top of that you can call this one app and reach them all without closing and opening new windows.

Thanks Eugenia
by mario on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:36 UTC

Unlike what you may have thought, I do have experience with lilo.conf, it's just that I wasn't sure about the BeOS partiton.


label=BeOS
root=/dev/hda2 # or wherever your BeOS partition is
read-only


Thanks. Looks familiar though. DOS?

RE: Thanks Eugenia
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:38 UTC

>I wasn't sure about the BeOS partiton.

You mean that you don't know in which partition BeOS is installed? Do an "fdisk -l" and it will tell you where BeOS is exactly.

>Looks familiar though. DOS?

DOS?

RE: Pref app
by M on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:42 UTC

The earlier Dano version had a pref app just like the Zeta one. That app did screen, mouse and a few others - not all the ones RC3 does. In fact, when I *saw* the pref app I though, "ah, this is like an expanded version of the older Dano pref thing!!"

RE: Pref app
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 07:44 UTC

>The earlier Dano version had a pref app just like the Zeta one.

Yeah, my JBQ spent 1-2 months working on it while at Be 4 years ago. There was a number of cool things about it, but it was never totally finished (Be moved into other things..).

wait
by mario on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:08 UTC

Of course I know where I installed beos


DOS: the entry you mentioned is similar to a DOS partition entry in lilo.conf

anyway, it didn't work: lilo complained about geometry problems and didn't update the MBR. You know what? I'll just use the beos bootman for all.

also
by mario on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:12 UTC

I had to change "root=" to "other=", because I (apparently) can't have duplicate "root=" entries - U already had one for my win3 partition (fat32).

RE: wait
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:13 UTC

If your Linux has LILO installed *only* on the MBR and not also on the /boot partition of your Linux as a chain loader, if you use bootman, you will LOSE the ability to boot Linux (you will then need to use a bootable CD). Thankfully, bootman also saves down the previous boot manager if you mess it up so you can restore LILO.

Your solutions right now are:
1. Re-install Linux and tell it to put the boot manager on the /boot and not on MBR (so you can use bootman)
2. Try to fix LILO to accept BeOS
3. Use GRUB.
4. Use another PC for BeOS. ;)

RE: wait
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:15 UTC

>I had to change "root=" to "other="

Ah, yes, you are right. Sorry, that was my typo, I had to write that markup above from memory as I am on XP atm.

RE: wait
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:57 UTC

BTW, the "read-only" is not really needed for the BeOS case either.

lilo, features, and screenshots
by Konrad on Wed 9th Jun 2004 08:58 UTC

Iam sorry to tell, but in time of moderations. Shouldnt that informs you how to get BeOS back in Linux Bootloader manu belong either in Miscforum or in BeOSforum - section?

Thanks for the review ICO, and for noticing OSnews. I like YellowTabs preflet never got the chance to compare it to the one JBQ wroted. Are there, by any chance any screenshots of his preflet? What "cool" features did it have?

/Konrad

RE: lilo, features, and screenshots
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 09:01 UTC

If you talking about the "visual" thing of it, you use your mouse to scroll between the preference icons on the left. Like you do with your mouse becoming a little hand on Adobe Acrobad to scroll a page. You probably can also use your wheel mouse, but you could do it with click+drag.

Spellcheck
by Konrad on Wed 9th Jun 2004 09:03 UTC

Why dont I read my post before I post it.

The essential parts of my post, for thoose who doesnt understand what Iam trying to say:

I wouldlike to move the lilo discussion to a forum, becuase its not related to the this topic.

And I like YT preflet, and would like to see JBQs, and hear about his cool features. A screenshot is +
So moderator, do your job and remove my last post

RE: Spellcheck
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jun 2004 09:10 UTC

>and would like to see JBQs

No one has a compiled version of that anymore. Except maybe PalmSource, somewhere...

>So moderator, do your job and remove my last post

Report it if you want to be seen by moderators.

prefs app
by jimmy on Wed 9th Jun 2004 09:29 UTC

eugenia, i was under the impression yT was expanding upon openbeos' pref manager. maybe it just has a simular look as JBQs, or maybe i've just had too much crack for breakfast...? ;)

Re. Re. wait
by Jorma on Wed 9th Jun 2004 11:19 UTC

If your Linux has LILO installed *only* on the MBR and not also on the /boot partition of your Linux as a chain loader, if you use bootman, you will LOSE the ability to boot Linux (you will then need to use a bootable CD). Thankfully, bootman also saves down the previous boot manager if you mess it up so you can restore LILO.

Yes I know that. I would have re-edited lilo.conf and re-run lilo accordingly, before booting into BeOS and running bootman. But thanks for the heads-up anyway.

WEP
by Dave on Wed 9th Jun 2004 14:35 UTC

Does anyone know whether they plan to include WEP wireless support in Zeta v1? I can never find a proper answer!

WEP
by Kian Duffy on Wed 9th Jun 2004 14:55 UTC

Well, I presume they're using Patrick Larfaguette (spelling?)'s Prism drivers at least, and they support WEP, although not WPA.

Eugenia, don't give bad advice!!! RE: wait
by P on Wed 9th Jun 2004 15:18 UTC

reinstall linux to get lilo in the root partition?? No! You can just reconfigure lilo to be in the root partition (don't remember how, but it's pretty easy, like changing only one line or running liloconf or liloconfig after saving your original lilo.conf)

Kernel source?
by CdBee on Wed 9th Jun 2004 16:02 UTC

Once again I find myself asking this question, as Zeta's vendors always refuse to answer it. Do they have the Kernel Source code for Beos or just the binaries? A 4-year old kernel just doesn't cut it in todays market

RC3 may have interesting applications but unless Yellowtab have the kernel source it'll never mature much further than its present condition.

Re: Kernel source?
by Guido on Wed 9th Jun 2004 17:33 UTC

Today I do not have doubts about the kernel source.
YellowTAB is a GmbH company, and this kind of business require bigger company, like german AG.
This company is born in 2001 and if its scope were to release a newer version before disappear, it would have had to make it in the short possible time.
Behind yellowTAB there are other software-house, like Paragon and I'm sure, in Japan there is another important investor of this company.
In my country (Italy), YellowTAB are present in many exhibition (4 or 5 times every year), even with no ready product; in May I have been to the Webbit (in Padua) and I found yellowTAB, a its retailer, and the user-group in two different place inside the same small exhibition.
I suspect that after the release 1, will arrive the answer to all these mysteries, and at the same time, the change of the kind of company (GmbH -> AG).
In this case I found an economic reason to exist one along hush - more money!
But I am curious and I would know from JBQ if, beyond to the code, the documentation did not lack also on the new API and if it is true that without modifications inside the kernel, Java could not work.
If this is true, then YellowTAB would have also sources of the kernel.

re: Guido
by CdBee on Wed 9th Jun 2004 20:54 UTC

Previous release candidates on Zeta had the original Kernel build, hence the suspicion that the source was unavailable, else why didn't they rebuild it with a better modern compiler?

Re: CdBee
by Guido on Wed 9th Jun 2004 21:02 UTC

I have read that if rebuilding Zeta with a modern GCC compiler, the applications would become incompatible; perhaps YellowTAB need more time for change the compiler.

Java
by Jack Burton on Thu 10th Jun 2004 07:05 UTC

"if it is true that without modifications inside the kernel, Java could not work. "

I don't think it's the case, as BeUnited reported java working on BeOS R5 without kernel changes.

RE: screenshot of JBQ's pref app
by M on Thu 10th Jun 2004 09:27 UTC

This is do-able. I don't have this version of Dano installed, but if people **really** want it, I can generate one. Is this *that* important? Let's be sure that the Zeta RC3 one looks and acts just like JBQ's one. If they recreated it, they did a good job of doing so.