Linked by Joe Drago on Wed 7th Jul 2004 19:12 UTC
Games One glaring issue I've had since my transition to Linux is video games. Being a Nintendo (consoles) and Sierra (PC) kid, I've gravitated to consoles more lately, but the occasional PC game has kept my interest solidly enough to keep Windows around on a spare drive. I tried WineX (CVS) in the past, and had great success with Diablo II, but didn't bother to try any 'new' games with it.
Order by: Score:
Grim Fandango
by Best on Wed 7th Jul 2004 19:30 UTC

Does Grim Fandango still have the issue with text onscreen not showing up? And does it support 3d accelleration for old direct x games yet? I have a pile of legacy direct x games that are all DX5, and run horribly under winex (and windows for that matter)

Great Joe!
by Tima on Wed 7th Jul 2004 19:33 UTC

Great to read about Cedega. Good review, Joe!

I have leaved Linux for the great Mac OS X, but may be heading back some day when there are more great solutions and applications available. Cedega looks like the biggest thing since OO.org and Mozilla atleast for my home computer.

compatibility
by Kaneda Belmont on Wed 7th Jul 2004 19:51 UTC

i like cedega but i cant play few games from the long variety of games listed in their website...
i'm very disapointed about it...

maybe someday the linux users can run any windows appm without taking care about compatibility...

RE: grim fandango
by line72 on Wed 7th Jul 2004 19:52 UTC

I played Grim Fandango the whole way through using wine 3.1. I never had any problems with text. There were a couple small graphical glitches, but no showstoppers.

/Line72

by Anonymous on Wed 7th Jul 2004 20:04 UTC

What about Arcanum?

Honestly
by themadtux on Wed 7th Jul 2004 20:18 UTC

I'd like to see more games ported to Linux, I'd rather not have to rely on an "emulator" to get a Windows game to run on my Linux box.. just give me a native game. iD does it, Epic does it.. we need more! I'd like to see something like the Neverwinter Nights guys did.. if you have the Windows version you can download and install NWN for Linux at no charge. Maybe it's just me.. but I want big name Linux Native games.

Linux games
by Avery Fay on Wed 7th Jul 2004 20:25 UTC

For anyone looking for a good, free linux game, check out Enemy Territory. It's based on Return to Castle Wolfenstein and only has network play, but it's really fun. You can download it here: http://www.3dgamers.com/games/wolfensteinet/

Re: Linux games
by themadtux on Wed 7th Jul 2004 20:44 UTC

That is exactly the point, it is a good quality game based on RtCW, but we need more high profile games like that. Doom 3, which I believe will be available for Linux will be a sweet addition.

Madden 2005?
by DaMasta on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:08 UTC

None of the other Madden NFL series were very operational. If they fix whatever it is for Madden 2005, I'll never boot to windows again.

BF-Vietnam doesn't work
by LoLL on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:14 UTC

I tried in vain BFV with Cedega4 but the game stops after the two first screen... Supported as they said ????

PS: WarCraft3 runs fine (since winex3).

RE: Linux games
by Anonymous on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:34 UTC

Bleh, Americas Army IMO is much better and is also free. ;)

http://www.3dgamers.com/games/americasarmy/

RE:Linux Games
by DaMasta on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:39 UTC

Americas Army is produced by the military. Therefore I do not trust it. Call me paranoid if you will, but with what has happened with Agent Orange and Gulf War Syndrome, I'd rather not. Paranoid? Yes. Unfounded? No.

Re: Linux games
by Darius on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:41 UTC

That is exactly the point, it is a good quality game based on RtCW, but we need more high profile games like that.

Why? I played this game in the early 90's when it was called just Wolfenstein, and played Doom 3 in back in the same time period when it was called just Doom. FPS games aint' changed a whole lot, but lemmings keep buying the same games (albeit prettier) year after year. Same with Madden 2038, or whatever they're up to now.
Seems like the open source community is doing with games what they do what apps - just copy what everybody else is doing. Give people games that are original and fun to play, and they might just come in flocks, unless The Corporation has convinced them that they need to buy a repackaged Tony Hawk (or whatever) yet again this year.

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:52 UTC

Games that are original are not necessarily fun to play.

Anyway, if you want variety and originality in video games, I suggest you buy a PlayStation 2, GameCube or Xbox. PC gaming is good for two things: RTS and First-person shooters.

Intelligent strategy games support under Linux?
by Metic on Wed 7th Jul 2004 21:57 UTC

My 2 cents worth:
AFAIK, quite a few of the typical shoot, drive, hack & slash PC games (like Unreal Tournament) are already supported under Linux. Does someone really need so many more of the same sort still...? ;-P) But, yeah, I guess it would be nice to have more such games on Linux too, no denying that.

But please, some intelligent strategy games support for Linux too... ;) (e.g. Civilization III, Medieval Total War etc.) If somone asks me, I would guess that many typical Linux users could prefer especially that sort of intelligent strategy games(?). (Yes, I know, the classic boeoard games chess, go etc. may still be the best strategy games, and they can be played very well on Linux platform too.)

@ Darius
by hmmmmmm on Wed 7th Jul 2004 22:07 UTC

WELL said! finally someone who gets it!

all the porting big name games in the world will not put linux on the gaming map.... but a totally new game.... exclusive to the platform.... if its a good one... well that could well shape the world!

pc's used to get the amiga's hand-me-downs for years.... and was never the serious gamers' choice until they started getting NEW games the amiga did not have...

now look... the amiga is a forgotten memory and the pc is untouchable

those who forget the past.... etc etc



two points
by Anonymous on Wed 7th Jul 2004 22:17 UTC

:Seems like the open source community is doing with games what they do what apps - just copy what everybody else is doing. Give people games that are original and fun to play,"

1) the development process isnt about just copying stuff. there is a lot of innovation going on in case you havent been looking

2)gaming is a very costly business and does not adopt well to the typical coordinated model of development in free software. games that push the limits are likely to remain proprietary

What the hell is Cedega
by John Blink on Wed 7th Jul 2004 22:25 UTC

I kept on thinking what is it?

You could have said in your intro that it is WineX 4.0 renamed.
http://www.google.com/search?lr=&sourceid=firefox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8...

Don't assume your readers know. Other than that great article.

Add the "Age of Mythology" and "Age of Empires" games to that list too!

I don't consider myself a gamer at all, but I've become addicted to these two. ;)

RE:Linux Games
by arielb on Wed 7th Jul 2004 22:53 UTC

I trust the military to make a kick@$$ game, hooah! It's one of the most realistic out there. Compare to Joint Operations where it is 'possible' for a sniper to shoot someone out of a helicopter while standing up. It's also available for macosx

Sony
by arielb on Wed 7th Jul 2004 22:59 UTC

The one non-MS platform that manages to get original, exclusive games is Sony Playstation 2. Not only that....there's linux for it! Unfortunately, Sony hasn't really taken advantage of it to turn it into a alternative desktop platform that's easy to use.

yes!
by pete on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:07 UTC

Wonderful article, its almost inspired me to go 100% linux on my gaming machine ;)

The only thing im worried about here is ATI's poor linux support when it comes to drivers (for my 9800pro, which id like to take full advantage of).

Re: Everyone
by Darius on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:08 UTC

A nun, he moos
Games that are original are not necessarily fun to play.

Yeah, that's why I said you need both.

PC gaming is good for two things: RTS and First-person shooters.

Well, that plus online RPGs. But other than that, you're right.

Anyway, if you want variety and originality in video games, I suggest you buy a PlayStation 2, GameCube or Xbox.

The games I have played for PS2 are basically just repackaged games I played on the PS1. Same goes for Gamecube and Xbox. Not much innovation here either.

hmmmmmm
all the porting big name games in the world will not put linux on the gaming map.... but a totally new game.... exclusive to the platform.... if its a good one... well that could well shape the world!

Good point. IMHO, a big mistake that the OSS community makes is porting their best stuff over to Windows, giving people like me even less incentive (sp) to switch. While this move may be good for getting more people to use open source apps (well, at least the 4 or 5 that are worthy), it doesn't do much for open-source operating systems like Linux.

Anonymous
2)gaming is a very costly business and does not adopt well to the typical coordinated model of development in free software. games that push the limits are likely to remain proprietary

Yeah, this is the same mentality that says you need $100 million worth of f/x to make a decent movie. I contend that a handful of dedicated developers could make a much better game than some multi-million dollar corporation. Some of the best games ever were made in the early 80's, usually written by just 1 or 2 people. Even to this day, Robotron 2084 remains probably the closest thing to digital crack ;)

RE: Linux Games
by Drill Sgt on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:27 UTC

"For anyone looking for a good, free linux game, check out Enemy Territory. It's based on Return to Castle Wolfenstein and only has network play, but it's really fun. You can download it here: " rel="nofollow">http://www.3dgamers.com/games/wolfensteinet/"

Or for that matter regular RTCW is native Linux as well.

@ Darius
by dpi on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:28 UTC

"Seems like the open source community is doing with games what they do what apps - just copy what everybody else is doing."

Your arguments? There are none stated. Neither Doom3, RtCW or RtCW-ET are open source. Therefore it is far from accurate to state the companies behind it were "part of the open source community". Well, ID maybe, because they released CW, Doom, DoomII, Quake1, Quake2 under the GPL.

I'd like to continue that just as you argue "Doom3 is Doom1", one could argue "Doom was CW" or "C&C was Dune2". Basically i'm agreeing with what you say btw! (What a special moment.) I'd like to see original games too again because none of the current ones are original nor appealing to me. Then again, i've had this opinion for quite some years and it seems to be something which just becomes like this after the years. Other people got grown up with Amiga, Atari, C64 and never really found the hot stuff of what PC users liked attracting. So what, if you are 15, grew up with computers just a few years ago with new games? Then the current games are not boring (yet).

To the person who wants the open source community to develop unique games on the Linux platform. Wake up, almost all open source games are portable! If these are using SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL for example, they just as well run on a variety of other platforms including MacOSX, BeOS, Windows, IRIX and many other platforms; SDL is highly portable and runs on tons of OSes. In contrast to the problem WINE and Cedega are dealing with: DirectX, proprietary games bound to Windows/x86-32. In practice neither of these are not portable.

It's not only ID and EPIC who sell Linux ports of popular games. See http://www.icculus.org/lgfaq/gamelist.php?license=commercial

I stick with the occasional game of Quake2 (highly portable, and in my opinion graphics acceptable, great gameplay). I tried UT2004 Arena and Quake3 at a friend but i didn't found it had anything more attracting (especially not any of the cool features LithiumII has). As much as i liked Dune2, that game becomes pretty boring after you finished it quite some times...

@Darius
by Drill Sgt on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:40 UTC

"Why? I played this game in the early 90's when it was called just Wolfenstein, and played Doom 3 in back in the same time period when it was called just Doom."

Ermm..Doom 3 has not been released yet as it is a continuation of the Doom series, and RTCW is just released last year, or maybe year before...it is NOT the Castle Wolfenstein games or Doom games from the early 90's...

RE: Re: Everyone
by Anonymous on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:41 UTC

"Good point. IMHO, a big mistake that the OSS community makes is porting their best stuff over to Windows, giving people like me even less incentive (sp) to switch."

Who said that the OSS community was about Linux anyways?

Re: dpi
by Darius on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:42 UTC

Your arguments? There are none stated. Neither Doom3, RtCW or RtCW-ET are open source. Therefore it is far from accurate to state the companies behind it were "part of the open source community". Well, ID maybe, because they released CW, Doom, DoomII, Quake1, Quake2 under the G

No. There's a big difference (albeit only to a degree) between repackaging the same game year-after-year with prettier graphics, new levels, new weapons, etc. and copying the same game with the exact same level design and such.

I'd like to see original games too again because none of the current ones are original nor appealing to me. Then again, i've had this opinion for quite some years and it seems to be something which just becomes like this after the years.

Well, wouldn't you like to have anything original anymore? Listened to FM lately? Been to the movies? This is why I hope the open source community one day realizes that 'true freedom' means much more than just freedom from Microsoft. Microsoft is simply one of the many ways in which we are bound.

Re: Drill Sgt & Anonymous
by Darius on Wed 7th Jul 2004 23:46 UTC

Ermm..Doom 3 has not been released yet as it is a continuation of the Doom series, and RTCW is just released last year, or maybe year before...it is NOT the Castle Wolfenstein games or Doom games from the early 90's...

They're first person shooters, are they not? Do you really want to be playing first person shooters 20 years from now? THEN STOP BUYING THEM!! Enough already.

Who said that the OSS community was about Linux anyways?

AFAIK, the open source community is about non-proprietary software. Meaning, if you want people to stop using non-proprietary operating systems, then stop porting your apps there. If I can run Firefox in Windows, why the hell would I want to go through all the trouble of running it in Linux? Your politics mean nothing to me - BUILD BETTER APPS!

@Darius
by Drill Sgt on Thu 8th Jul 2004 00:57 UTC

"They're first person shooters, are they not? Do you really want to be playing first person shooters 20 years from now? THEN STOP BUYING THEM!! Enough already."

Actually I do. That is the game genre I happen to like. For that reasoning we played Warcraft on MS-DOS. Do you really want to be playing RTS 20 years from now? You may be happy with computer Chess and the like, most of the people I know are not. I believe in paying for software that is worth it. I don't care if it is open or not to tell ya the truth.

On the other hand though the companies need to keep putting out the games on Linux, like Id and Epic have been doing. That is what is needed to make Linux really take off. Not the killer app that only runs on Linux, but rather the software companies making software native to Linux. Games is a huge part of that no matter what the genre, as the PC in the household IS the gaming center. Consoles are okay, but the majority of good games are for the PC, not the console. Cedega is actually giving a way for people to play thier games cross platform until the software companies make up for it.

@hmmmmm
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:10 UTC

all the porting big name games in the world will not put linux on the gaming map.... but a totally new game.... exclusive to the platform.... if its a good one... well that could well shape the world!

Well, the problem is that making games has become increasingly more complex, therefore costlier. One can code a mid-level productivity app by themselves or with a couple of people, but to make a video game today and be competitive is a huge effort. On our project (a console game for a well-known cartoon franchise), we have a team of about 20-25 people full-time for a year and a half. Remember that game development isn't like most software development: in addition to programmers (engine, tools and game logic), you have designers, artists, 3D modelers, 3D animators, texture/effects artists, sound designers...not to mention writers, voice director, voice talent, producers, etc., etc.

At least with console games developers can usually get advances on royalties - with PC games you're usually out on your own. If your big game bombs, well...so goes your company. That's why, outside a few companies that thrive on PC games (Id, Blizzard and Microsoft to name a few), the vast majority of developers produce console games.

Open source software is economically feasible because most software products are tools, and tools are there to help us do a better job and be more productive. There are corollary services an open-source software company can offer as a means of income. Games are entertainment, a pleasant waste of time - it's quite a bit harder to offer services around this.

Actually, I do believe open-source software tools and engins can help game developers. There is nothing preventing a company from giving out part of its source code, or to use GPLed code - as long as it doesn't open source the actual art and game content. For example, a developer could post its engine online, and even get help from programming fans...As long as it can sell the content, opening up the engine and the tools can't hurt.


pc's used to get the amiga's hand-me-downs for years.... and was never the serious gamers' choice until they started getting NEW games the amiga did not have...

Yeah, well the video game market has changed a lot since the days of the Amiga (great machine, btw - I had an Amiga 2000 and it was indeed the best gaming computer of its age). The console was still picking up the pieces from the 1983 crash, while PC gaming was in full swing.

These days consoles rule the video game industry, and that's where most of the money and talent goes. PCs are still doing okay, mind you, but developers increasingly move on to consoles as their primary market. In that context, I don't believe Linux exclusives would bring that much more Linux users with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Linux exclusives, but I don't agree that they represent some sort of Holy Grail for the Linux gaming community. That would rather be Sony or Nintendo (or a future big player) putting out a successful Linux-based console, which would make porting to Linux PCs much, much easier.

Another cool thing would be for companies like Blizzard or Id to exclusively release public betas of their upcoming hit (with a portion of the total game content), but only to the Linux community. You'd get plenty of Windows gamers dual-booting just to try it out!! But I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen...

Back to the original article
by Piers on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:21 UTC

My only problems with it is there is very limited support for input controllers. This keeps sim heads like myself being able to run simulations on Linux. Forgotten Battles runs under Wine-X but without any decent controllers and only keyboard for input, it is tedious at best trying to control the aircraft.

Now for gaming on Linux, I have been enjoying UT2004 and a special mod for it called Red Orchestra. A very realistic WW2 Eastern front grunt mod. No bunny hopping here or sprinting everywhere. No cross-hair aiming, very refreshing having to sprint and then seek cover as you get your breath back and then raise your weapon so to look down the barrel through iron sights. What I have noticed between running this mod on both Linux and WinXP is that on Linux there is a lag in control input compared to WinXP. Unfortunately for a mod like this where reflexes can be required when trench running, the results are definately not in your favour on Linux. This with Kernel 2.6.4, Nvidia drivers and an i686 optimised distribution with a USB mouse. Frame rates are about par between them this coupled with the need to use Windows for audio (CubaseSX) I still have a great dependence on Windows.

Maybe a year or two down the track I can safely say Linux will wipe my Windows Partition but not yet. Also Load times under WindowsXP are faster then Linux using Reiser FS. Not that I mind too much as I have yet to have Reiser crap itself like NTFS or Fat32 and I don't have to mess about with optimising and defaging although something like Speed Disk for Reiser would be good where program loading is optimised.

Anyway, just my observations. Still keeping my Linux install around to see it progress but unfortunately, most of my time is now being redirected to what is more usefull to me. Windows )-:

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:21 UTC

"PC gaming is good for two things: RTS and First-person shooters."

Well, that plus online RPGs. But other than that, you're right.


Actually, the PC's dominance in online RPGs will erode as online console gaming and voice chat (like what you get with Xbox live) becomes more popular. RTS and FPS have a definite advantage as they require the mouse to be really playable. However, most RPGs can be easily adapted to console controllers.

So you are right, for now... :-)

The games I have played for PS2 are basically just repackaged games I played on the PS1.

Then I'll suggest that you may not have played a lot of PS2 games. The same genre of games persist, of course, but there are totally new things out there - a lot of it from Japan, as usual.

Same goes for Gamecube and Xbox. Not much innovation here either.

Perhaps, but a lot more than in PC games. Inventing new genres isn't easy. I'll grant you that publishers are usually conservative, and that original concepts are indeed a bit harder to push through these days. But it happens. The EyeToy is a good example (expect a slew of EyeToy games in the next year...).

Just because there aren't revolutionary new games every month doesn't mean that innovation is dead. And just because a game is innovative doesn't mean that it will be successful and/or fun to play.

@Anonymous (IP: 61.95.184.---)
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:23 UTC

Hm. I should have read your post before posting my incredibly long-winded version or it. Needless to say, I agree with you totally.

@ Darius
by dpi on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:28 UTC

"No. There's a big difference (albeit only to a degree) between repackaging the same game year-after-year with prettier graphics, new levels, new weapons, etc. and copying the same game with the exact same level design and such."

There are good reasons for it: nostalgia, proven quality, backwards compatibility. The last one hardly applies here, but the first 2 seem plaussible to me. They're irrelevant to me though.

"Well, wouldn't you like to have anything original anymore?"

Yes! I'd have no problem paying a few hundred EUR for it, if i liked it as well. I don't expect there will be ever a game i'll enjoy as much as i enjoyed the games during the late 80's and begin 90's. Back then everything i played was original to me. Quake2 was the last game i truelly enjoyed. I'm not holding my breath...

"Listened to FM lately? Been to the movies? This is why I hope the open source community one day realizes that 'true freedom' means much more than just freedom from Microsoft. Microsoft is simply one of the many ways in which we are bound."

Ofcourse Microsoft is merely a sympton. My impression is the FLOSS people see Microsoft as its greatest current opponent.

Freedom and "quality" are 2 total different aspects in my opinion. With "quality" i mean eg. diversity. I know various media collectives who are truelly obstinacious. Or rather for most: were. Were, because the government here are currently having a campaign against FM free radio people -- so-called "pirates". Now some of them moved to the 'net, and they were totally unaware of the freedom disadvantages of MP3 and Quicktime. While the "quality" was unique in its own form giving unknown artists a chance, experimenting (e.g. noise), and making together music over the Internet from 5 different countries at the same time, the freedom of the method used to transport the audio message is up to debate. Not only freedom, also slightly onquality, because at least Vorbis is better than MP3; don't know on Theora vs Quicktime. On video it is slightly different, and on both i've had good discussions. Just an observation.

"AFAIK, the open source community is about non-proprietary software."

No, that's the free software community. The open source community is about non-closed source software partly, but not all the software used in the world needs to be OSS. The FS group is more strict and absolute on this, while the OSS group is more open to proprietary solutions where necessary (so OSS is more free ;) .

"Meaning, if you want people to stop using non-proprietary operating systems, then stop porting your apps there."

I certainly don't want to be bound to one platform (ie. Linux + userland, some BSD, or what not). GNU and Debian are pretty much portable too. If you want to make it impossible to be portable to other platform, you'll have to make the software proprietary. As you can see, it is then even possible to run it on another platform (Linux/x86) and in theory also on other architectures...

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:35 UTC

They're first person shooters, are they not? Do you really want to be playing first person shooters 20 years from now? THEN STOP BUYING THEM!! Enough already.

Hey, FPS are fun, why should people stop playing them? You make it sound as if Doom and Doom3 are identical...well, they aren't. The experience is similar, but different.

And what about games like Half-Life? That was a FPS, but it was a totally different experience than Doom, or even Quake (on which it was based).

What about Counter-Strike, a Half-Life derivative? With its realistic damage and weapons, which privileges tactics, it's completely different from Quake 3's deathmatch. What about Max Payne - is that a 3D shooter or an action/adventure game? Who cares, it's the content that matters.

You have to make a distinction between genres (and sub-genres), which are here to stay, and individual games. As I said, I agree that there should be more originality in games, but you seem fixated on it. A game can be fun without being original, you know...

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:38 UTC

By the way, your use of BOLD LETTER CAPS is annoyingly immature. I you want to use emphasis, please use italics.

oops
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 01:41 UTC

err... that should be "If" you want to use emphasis...

v holy cow
by KillGrinder on Thu 8th Jul 2004 02:04 UTC
@A nun, he moos
by Darius on Thu 8th Jul 2004 02:05 UTC

Hey, FPS are fun, why should people stop playing them? You make it sound as if Doom and Doom3 are identical...well, they aren't. The experience is similar, but different.

If game developers back in my day had the same mentality as you, we'd all be playing 3D versions of Space Invaders with multi-color, volumetric fog.

Questions...
by Will T on Thu 8th Jul 2004 02:44 UTC

I'm intrested in getting this version of WineX (one of the reason I've moved back into WindowsXP is that my favorite games were unplayable... and I see no reason to stick with an OS that I can only listen to music and surf the net with).

For example, do some games still have "RichText Edit" error message? (Graal, RC, and some other older games).

Does starcraft Battle.net text still look like crap?

Does Final Fantasy 7 work with it? (PC, not emulation)

I'd really appreciate an answer. =)

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 03:00 UTC

If game developers back in my day had the same mentality as you, we'd all be playing 3D versions of Space Invaders with multi-color, volumetric fog.

No need to be so condescending. The first videogame I played was Pong, and I learned about computers on a Pet Commodore and an Apple ][. So drop the "back in my day" attitude, please.

The irony here is that I have probably enjoyed playing more original games than you, since you don't seem to play much games at all. EyeToy Play's awesome. So was Ico. The first Shenmue was pretty good but got boring past a certain point. Half-Life and Max Payne are good examples of original games that I enjoyed very much. Space Channel 5 was amazing. And Zelda: The Ocarina of Time remains a true original.

The point remains: a game doesn't have to be original to be fun, and originality alone does not guarantee a good game.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see you design a video game...we'd be able to see how original it would be.

Re: A nun, he moos
by Darius on Thu 8th Jul 2004 03:17 UTC

Sorry, I just remember a time when it seemed like every other game that came out was something you had never seen before. Sure, there were the 'me too' games back then, but you didn't see that kind of crap making the best-seller list. No, the true innovators like Electronic Arts (before they sold their souls to satan) and Activision strived to be different, and stay ahead of the pack in innovation. Today, you see none of that. Just a bunch of cookie-cutter wanna-be games with maybe a couple of new features since last year's incarnation.
I'm not saying that there are no good games out, I'm just saying that I refuse to wade through all the junk just to get to the very rare gems that are out there.

Modern games suck - get over it.

@Darius
by A nun, he moos on Thu 8th Jul 2004 03:55 UTC

I'm not saying that there are no good games out, I'm just saying that I refuse to wade through all the junk just to get to the very rare gems that are out there.

Well, it's true that you have to look a little to get the better games. But there's nothing preventing you from playing older games. My gf's like that - she doesn't care for 3D games at all and mostly plays old favorites on MAME.

Modern games suck - get over it.

I'm not into over-generalizations, sorry. Publishers do make it harder for original games to come out. And a lot of games suck. But there's lots of good games as well.

Maybe I'm not as critical as I was because know I actually know how hard and complicated it is to make a game - never mind a good one.

Anyway, if innovation's your thing, I suggest you check out Fable (Peter Molyneux's RPG-like game) when it comes out. That sounds very intriguing - I just hope it's more fun to play than Black & White, which is a good example of a wildly innovative game that wasn't all that entertaining...

now wait a minute...
by Anonymous on Thu 8th Jul 2004 03:57 UTC

Sorry, I just remember a time when it seemed like every other game that came out was something you had never seen before...

Modern games suck - get over it.

Jeez, Darius. Don't you think that's kind of a bold statement? I would like to see more innovation too, as the last decade to me seemed to be the golden age of PC gaming.

Now we are in the era of serious 3D advancements in gaming. Vertex shaders, bump-mapping, Half-Life 2's supposedly creepy AI, Doom 3's next-gen lighting effects and all the other cool effects that we could've only dreamed about a few years ago. So, I think in a sense, games of today, we have never seen before when you take into account all their visual splendor.

We are experiencing some [i]seriously[i] rapid advancements in gaming visuals and performance today and I think software just have to catch up is all.

RE: now wait a minute...
by ken on Thu 8th Jul 2004 03:59 UTC

Sorry, forgot to post my name.

ports
by z1xq on Thu 8th Jul 2004 04:26 UTC

Why worry about ports when developers can just make the game more winex friendly and they got an instant dual platform game. Then the Linux users just get the game of their choice at Walmart.

Static sound...
by Priit Laes on Thu 8th Jul 2004 04:33 UTC

The static sound issue is the Cedega's problem. It sets the sound level (PCM channel) to 100%.

Re: now wait a minute...
by Darius on Thu 8th Jul 2004 05:08 UTC

Now we are in the era of serious 3D advancements in gaming. Vertex shaders, bump-mapping, Half-Life 2's supposedly creepy AI, Doom 3's next-gen lighting effects and all the other cool effects that we could've only dreamed about a few years ago. So, I think in a sense, games of today, we have never seen before when you take into account all their visual splendor.

Sorry, but pretty graphics does not good gameplay make. From Satoru Iwata, president of Nintendo:

He said the gaming industry is reaching a dead end as its past formula for success -- dazzling consumers with more sophisticated imagery -- no longer works. Game sales have been declining for years in Japan, and growth has been slowing even in the more solid U.S. market, he said.

"What we need is not a next-generation machine but a next-generation way of playing games," Iwata told reporters at a Tokyo hotel. "We need to propose a new idea so that the game industry can overcome its current crisis."


Source: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/06/09/nintendo.console.ap/in...

Re:ports
by fizzol on Thu 8th Jul 2004 05:10 UTC

>Why worry about ports when developers can just make the game more winex friendly and they got an instant dual platform game.

Game developers with a very few exceptions aren't doing either one. A few are porting games but I don't know of any game developer that takes WineX into account in their Windows programming.

@Darius
by ken on Thu 8th Jul 2004 05:57 UTC

Yeah, that was an interesting article. I understand the crisis, but that article seemed to pretty much be pointed at the console market, where IMHO visual processing and powerful AI will never stay current with PC gaming, mainly because of the PC's extraordinary processing power compared to that of the consoles. Certain genres will rule in the PC gaming realm IMHO (FPS, RTS, MMORPG's, etc.), and the consoles will forever rule in just about everything else.

PC gaming and linux is the focus of this topic, and I just don't see the quality of PC gaming slipping anytime soon. It is just only going to get better (especially for linux). It's just gonna take time and increased support. And it is happening. For PC gaming, it looks like the future is brighter than ever, with all the 3D and AI breakthroughs that have occured even within the past year. I don't game on consoles anymore, so I can't really comment on their situation, but I can say that I am one of the many gamers who choose the PC over consoles because of the dominance in certain genres and the PC's increased horsepower to play around with to get the best experience in those games. That is just my preference. So, for us, it is very promising.

I hope the winex/cedega team keeps pushing on and irons out the wrinkles, so windows gaming on the linux box becomes more practical, until the linux native titles start to roll out.

Good news !
by Kadreg on Thu 8th Jul 2004 07:51 UTC

Cedega is the future of Linux !
Take a look at LinuxGamepublishing or Tuxgames or Loki : these companies are dead !
So it would be interesting to buy Windows games to play under Linux, every Linux user has a computer running Windows.

Great !

Linux game programming & the Scratchware Manifesto?
by Anonymous on Thu 8th Jul 2004 09:13 UTC

Am I uttering nonsense, or are there mutual benefits to gain from a combination of Linux game programming and 'Scratchware'

http://www.the-underdogs.org/scratch.php

Also, since Linux doesn't have a lot of games, why aren't some companies deciding to put in a little more work and release it for Linux? Let's say 'Grim Fandango' (I know it works with Cedega, but that's not the point). There's a market for these old(er) but excellent games for the Linux platform. Sure beats releasing it as abondonware, no?




@Darius
by Futt Bucker on Thu 8th Jul 2004 09:16 UTC

"If game developers back in my day had the same mentality as you, we'd all be playing 3D versions of Space Invaders with multi-color, volumetric fog."

That would be "Incoming" -> http://pc.ign.com/articles/152/152282p1.html

Cedega is NOT the future of Linux gaming
by bufalo73 on Thu 8th Jul 2004 10:21 UTC

If you have something that makes your Windogs program run on anything else, why will you spend money porting it? And something more: you spend less money on customer service. "sorry, we only support Windows" is the most loved sentence in customer service.

The future of Linux gaming goes through making something like DirectX but for Linux/*BSD. Maybe SDL 2 would be the better bet (maybe not, but...), but it has to be REALLY easy to make a game with it, (near to) forgeting the OS beneath the API. Only if developers think they can make faster and easyer a game with Linux and having the chance to port it to Windogs just by recompiling (or the other way) Linux will have more games.

v Gaming Idiots.
by Rick James on Thu 8th Jul 2004 12:06 UTC
DaMasta
by themadtux on Thu 8th Jul 2004 12:18 UTC

You my friend, need help!

@Darius
by themadtux on Thu 8th Jul 2004 12:34 UTC

To each his own. If you don't like gaming.. then ya don't like gaming. But there are alot that do, and Linux needs high quality games if we're looking for home desktop dominance. Not only geeks use Linux.

Tux Racer might be alittle fun, but it's not going to bring people over in flocks, Linux needs big games and big names. Your comment that first person shooters haven't changed since the beginning well; all genres are the same, RPG's are the same now as they have been since the beginning I'll be it prettier. Sports games are the same now as they always have been, RTS games are the same.. blah blah. It can go on and on. Once a genre is created it's very hard to break from the mold.

Re: DaMasta
by Darius on Thu 8th Jul 2004 15:22 UTC

To each his own. If you don't like gaming.. then ya don't like gaming. But there are alot that do

I didn't say I don't like games - I just don't like the crap (esp. stuff with Full Lotion Video and/or 8 hours of CG sequences I have to watch before I can even start playing) that they try to pawn off as 'games' these days. If I wanted to watch a damn movie, I'd go rent one.

Your comment that first person shooters haven't changed since the beginning well; all genres are the same, RPG's are the same now as they have been since the beginning I'll be it prettier. Sports games are the same now as they always have been

Well, yeah ... that was my point to begin with.

RE:Linux Games
by Anonymous on Thu 8th Jul 2004 16:55 UTC

Americas Army has spyware, be careful

RE: Intelligent strategy games support under Linux?
by Chakie on Fri 9th Jul 2004 10:41 UTC

Yep, there are enough first person shooters for Linux in my opinion. I'd like to see some hardcore strategy games supported too, such as the excellent Combat Mission series. The last one (Africa Korps) apparently almost works with WineX/Cedega/something, but has some annoying repaint issues that make it unplayable. The CM games are the only reason I still have a Windows partition on one machine...

at least if works for some people >_>
by Mad Echidna on Sat 10th Jul 2004 23:51 UTC

I tried it at home, and nothing that I wanted to play worked, except for basiliskII for windows. Even that had some lag.