Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 13th Aug 2004 20:12 UTC, submitted by Eugene Gorbunoff
OS/2 and eComStation Serenity Systems International is proud to announce the release of eComStation Version 1.2. Principal features include a new installation program jointly developed with IBM, enhancements to the desktop environment, additional Internet connection features, and improved device support.
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pricing
by Alain on Fri 13th Aug 2004 20:55 UTC

Well that OS is really expensibe, 219$? and 99$ more if you want SMP support?

When you can get a linux for far less (xandros) or for free or purchase a winxp at OEM prices... they are exagerating.

they are integrating a lot of sharewares to make it look good. updating the drivers and the base operating system...
and they expect people to give away so much?

OS/2 is great, but which PM/WPS applications?

Instead you are integrating :
Java Apps,
X11 apps,
Odin Apps, Win 16, DOS Apps

strange taste in my mouth...

OpenOffice not free....
by Anonymous on Fri 13th Aug 2004 21:05 UTC

QUOTE :
«Serenity Systems International is happy to announce the availability of OpenOffice.org for OS/2 and eComStation users. This is a port of the current OpenOffice.org 1.1.1. The Suggested Retail Price for an electronically downloadable version of the product is $39US. Media would be available on request for an additional cost.»

219$ to buy eComStation and then... 39$ for OpenOffice!!! This is no hobby OS...

I know you have to pay for SUN StarOffice but paying for OpenOffice...! Wow.

Who will NEED to run OS/2 ? Linux cost much less, OpenOffice for free. Darn, even Windows XP OEM cost less than eCom and you still get OpenOffice for FREE.

Re: pricing
by the_trapper on Fri 13th Aug 2004 21:10 UTC

I think the main point of eComStation is that it is a fully supported version of OS/2 for those with legacy in-house applications, such as most banks and several government agencies.

Also, some people are just fine with the apps that are available for OS/2 and eComStation.

Retail vs. OEM
by Anonymous on Fri 13th Aug 2004 21:49 UTC

While it may not be fair to compare OS/2's retail price to XP's retail price because most machines ship with XP, it isn't fair to compare OS/2's retail price to XP's OEM price.

question
by poundsmack on Fri 13th Aug 2004 21:53 UTC

are they developing the kernel at all or are they jsut making old technology look nicer? i mean are they playing witht he kernel or file systems or jsut cosmetic and drivers and stuff? sorry for my ignorance

re: question
by Alain on Fri 13th Aug 2004 22:05 UTC

> are they developing the kernel at all or are
> they jsut making old technology look nicer?

it would be interesting to know if they have access
to OS/2 source code..

imagine WPS source code avail for free (legally), it would
kill competition on any desktop... :-D

just a dream ;)

Screenshots
by Alain on Fri 13th Aug 2004 22:08 UTC

It's a hungarian web site but the pictures speak
for themselves:

http://os2.rulez.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1770

RE: question
by Ronald on Fri 13th Aug 2004 23:11 UTC

They don't have access to the kernel's source code. Nor the Workplace Shell's source code. I could only imagine the spaghetti code those two would be since IBM OS/2 has been on maintenance for the last 10 years. Serenity Systems needs to, and I imagine, working to replace subsystem by subsystem with better ones (and maybe open source ones).

Many things were reworked on this release like the MultiMedia subsystem (MMPM/2) and the initial installation procedure. I think they also got rid of old things like File & Print add on and replaced it with a more modern version (Samba). A new LVM software is also included (to replace the hyper complicated LVM IBM programmers made... lol)

I'm probably getting the virtual app (SVISTA) from Serenity System. I played around with it and it's much better than Virtual PC from MS.

Desktop?
by X on Fri 13th Aug 2004 23:16 UTC

Can be used as a desktop?

RE: Desktop?
by Ronald on Fri 13th Aug 2004 23:19 UTC

Yes, it's a desktop OS.

irc
by Severian on Fri 13th Aug 2004 23:32 UTC

I might well be interested in buying this, but I have a few questions. Is there an active (or semi-active) IRC channel for ecomstation? I tried #ecs on irs.ecomstation.com, but it seems just about dead.

I miss OS/2
by garoo on Fri 13th Aug 2004 23:53 UTC

I wish they still called it OS/2. They should open source it, big time. OS/2 rocked, and still does.

They have updated the look/feel... I'd love to see OS/2 back in the OS game. All we need is a few games and OS/2 would be back in biz.

Of course, that's the shortfall of Linux, too. Not enough games. The OS market is owned by the desktop. I'm as much of a geek as the next guy, but I personally won't be switching over my desktop until I can drop into a native mode game quickly. (no reboot to windows).

Imagine this
by Mark Flanagan on Sat 14th Aug 2004 00:08 UTC

Think if an operating system at the level of, say, Windows NT 4 had stopped developing then but the kernel continued to be compiled to run on modern hardware and new drivers were added for things like USB, Firewire, DVD writers, etc, that have taken hold in the years since. Think if an operating system could run comfortably in 32mb of ram (but quite content with more) and still provide a smooth multitasking experience and a nice if not extraordinary graphical interface. Now think if it could run native apps, Java apps, old Windows and Dos apps, and Linux console and X11 apps out of the box.

OS/2 may be a backwater, but what a backwater! You can construct as lite or as powerful an operating system out of it as you want and tinker with its capabilities practically infinitely. This ought to be a commercial OS that sets the OSNews crowd to drooling. (And the Workplace Shell is still an astounding interface accomplishment - no other I've seen has ever matched it for flexibility and extensibility or has been as intuitive - or fantastically complex if that suits you - to use.)

re: irc
by The Lone OSer on Sat 14th Aug 2004 00:10 UTC

ON EFNet you have the following active channels..
#os2warez - (Although not exactly a warez channel, deals with chitchat, drivers etc. etc)
Under freenode.net you have #netlabs which is focused primarily on developers.

OT: Eugenia
by sujan on Sat 14th Aug 2004 01:23 UTC

I am watching the opening ceremony and I'd commend your country for organizing this grand event. And thanks for the scenary as well, for a warm country, it's really beautiful.

The main expense is the inclusion of an OS/2 Warp 4 client license from IBM (which the suggested full US$219 eCS purchase price pays for in addition to the eCS product).

If you already have a copy of OS/2 Warp 4 lying around, or if you pick up an inexpensive copy on eBay, the upgrade to eCS 1.2 from OS/2 is only $US99 (since you already have a license).

No, it's not as inexpensive as many (or most) Linux flavors, but it really doesn't address the same audience.

For long-time OS/2 users like me, though, eCS has actually been a pretty good deal because it provides an upgrade path for OS/2 users that IBM wasn't providing itself (at least completely).

I agree with you that the OS/2 portion of the license is pretty high, though. I wish IBM would get a clue in that area.

OS/2 didn't and it looked terrible because of this. I wonder if eCS has anything to offer in the eye-candy field?

Font dithering (AA) is only available to a few selected apps, Mozilla and a few others. In OS/2, full colour desktop icons means something along the lines of 256 colours (8-bits).

If you're looking for eye candy then Mac OS X is your best bet. Then Windows and Linux.

Some facts
by Eugene Gorbunoff on Sat 14th Aug 2004 11:21 UTC

2 Alain: yes, SMP kernel is available as standalone product. It allows run eCS on 64 prcoessors; OpenOffice.org is not free because port costs big money and it's necessary return the investments.

2 poundsmack: IBM supports Serenity and releases system kernels, USB drivers, device drivers, etc. So, the community & eCS companies work on end-user/specific applications & drivers. New drivers? NTFS.IFS, Firewire drivers, UniAud, etc.. The general advantage of eCS: it is already equipped with universal drivers of sound, video, (network in the future)

2 Alain: ok, OS/2 is a modular system, so some components was replaced/updated in eCS: WPS was enforced with eWP; MMOS2 was replaced with MMeCS, etc. The general features of eCS: WPS (original UI); REXX (system script languages); NetDrive, 64bit JFS filesystem, etc.

2 garoo: you are right, no modern games in eCS (except some fun games -- http://en.ecomstation.ru/projects/ecobaby/

2 The Lone OSer: some channels: irc://efnet/os2russian, irc://ecomstation.com/netlabs, irc://ecomstation.com/ecolabs

2 BSofA: eCS 1.2 uses AA in Mozilla, OpenOffice.org and other applications; eCS supports true color icons 40x40

2 Ronald: As I know, design of Warp icons was made by company from MacOS world; So, thanks to WPS & fashionable design eCS is like a MacOSX on Intel platform.

Some facts
by eg on Sat 14th Aug 2004 12:45 UTC

2 Alain: yes, SMP kernel is available as standalone product. It allows run eCS on 64 prcoessors; OpenOffice.org is not free because port costs big money and it's necessary return the investments.

2 poundsmack: IBM supports Serenity and releases system kernels, USB drivers, device drivers, etc. So, the community & eCS companies work on end-user/specific applications & drivers. New drivers? NTFS.IFS, Firewire drivers, UniAud, etc.. The general advantage of eCS: it is already equipped with universal drivers of sound, video, (network in the future)

2 Alain: ok, OS/2 is a modular system, so some components was replaced/updated in eCS: WPS was enforced with eWP; MMOS2 was replaced with MMeCS, etc. The general features of eCS: WPS (original UI); REXX (system script languages); NetDrive, 64bit JFS filesystem, etc.

2 garoo: you are right, no modern games in eCS (except some fun games -- http://en.ecomstation.ru/projects/ecobaby/

2 The Lone OSer: some channels: irc://efnet/os2russian, irc://ecomstation.com/netlabs, irc://ecomstation.com/ecolabs

2 BSofA: eCS 1.2 uses AA in Mozilla, OpenOffice.org and other applications; eCS supports true color icons 40x40

2 Ronald: As I know, design of Warp icons was made by company from MacOS world; So, thanks to WPS & fashionable design eCS is like a MacOSX on Intel platform.

Probably too late
by Daniel de Kok on Sat 14th Aug 2004 13:21 UTC

eComStation is really nice, and it would me relatively modern five years ago. But to live in the present days eCS should:

- support AMD64
- support ACPI
- support a broad range of WLAN cards
- be fully multiuser
- bootable from JFS
Etc.

Besides that, IPv6 is coming. I think they won't come far without source code (besides running it in a VM on BSD, Linux, or Windows).

Not late
by eg on Sat 14th Aug 2004 13:37 UTC

2 Daniel de Kok:
- eComStation works on AMD64;
- ACPI is not supported;
- eComStation supports WiFi network cards -- http://www.os2warp.be/index2.php?name=wifi
- Multiuser support is implemented (Security/2)
- BooJFS is completed (should be embedded to OS installer)

RE: Not late
by Daniel de Kok on Sat 14th Aug 2004 14:00 UTC

eComStation works on AMD64;

Almost every x86 32-bit operating systems does, the AMD64 is compatible with it. What people want is a AMD64 port.

eComStation supports WiFi network cards

Not much more than Intersil Prism based cards.

Multiuser support is implemented (Security/2)

I know Security/2, but it is not really clean (to say the least). OS/2 doesn't support filesystem permissions very well, most programs do not know about Security/2, so using it gives many weird errors, bugs, etc.

BooJFS is completed (should be embedded to OS installer)

Good to hear that!

RE: Not late
by champ on Sat 14th Aug 2004 14:02 UTC

eCS should: - support AMD64
reply: eComStation works on AMD64;

It's funny to response the request by saying
that eComStation works on AMD64.

DOS runs on 32bits, it doesn't means that
DOS support 32bits CPU.

This is just because of CPUs' backward compatibility.

drivers
by Anonymous on Sat 14th Aug 2004 21:23 UTC

having to pay ibm to download device drivers for os/2 is a travesty

Re: drivers
by The Lone OSer on Sun 15th Aug 2004 01:39 UTC

>having to pay ibm to download device drivers for os/2 is a >travesty

I doubt there are many OS/2 users out there who would argue that one.. IBM has been both the good and evil for OS/2 users and I can't see their attitude changing any time soon alas.

misc
by eg on Sun 15th Aug 2004 07:05 UTC

2 Daniel de Kok:
- WiFi cards: as I can see on the site, there are drivers for Prism, Orinoco, Cisco families.
- Security/2 - IMHO, multiuser support is more successful than unix-like.

2 Anonymous:
Users don't pay for IBM drivers. All the drivers are available for registered eCS users free of charge.

RE: misc
by Daniel de Kok on Sun 15th Aug 2004 09:48 UTC

- WiFi cards: as I can see on the site, there are drivers for Prism, Orinoco, Cisco families.

Prism and Orinoco are the same family, e.g. I have a Prism PCI card that uses orinoco_pci drivers. Cisco cards used AiroNet, which is (afaik) also based on the Prism chipset (with their own firmware).

- Security/2 - IMHO, multiuser support is more successful than unix-like.

No, I have seen a Security/2 presentation at WarpWeekend, it is really broken and incomplete, especially compared to *nix. As I said, large parts of OS/2 don't know about multiuser functionality, and you'll need OS/2 sources to fix it.

Hurrah for ECS!
by Daniel Miller on Mon 16th Aug 2004 09:32 UTC

I think it's GREAT that they continue to market this product and bring it into the modern era. It gives people a CHOICE. Not everybody likes Linux you know, and not everybody likes being forced to use M$ Windows. So E-Commerce Station ECS really is a great thing it seems to me. I take it they ship you a nice box and manual and CD for the $219? That wouldn't be so terrible. It would be nice to see it at $199 but one can't really expect them to compete on price with free versions of Linux. And I like the way they target the business market but also are attractive to people who used OS/2. And even Open Office and Firefox are available, right? MARVELOUS!

Modern OS
by Hunter Moon on Mon 16th Aug 2004 13:53 UTC

"eComStation is really nice, and it would me relatively modern five years ago. But to live in the present days eCS should:

- support AMD64"

Then I guess neither Linux nor FreeBSD are modern OSes because I have an AMD64 and Gigabyte board and I have never successfully installed either of these operating systems on the computer and had thm continue to work through more than two or three reboots, if I was lucky enough to get that far.

FreeBSD
Gentoo
Fedora
SuSE (This doesn't even install well on an AMD XP 2400+ system I have with Shuttle MB)
Mandrake Release (the alpha worked)

Anti-aliased fonts
by Adam McNutt on Mon 16th Aug 2004 15:52 UTC

You can get more anti-aliasing than just the Mozilla and OO.o if you install the Freetype/2 library. Has an installer, and takes a reboot, but it'll be there after that. The freetype they use for Mozilla is only made for those few *NIX ported apps. Still good though.

crazy question, but maybe somebody knows
by Seagull on Mon 16th Aug 2004 17:12 UTC

Just curious. Would a classic game like say, Redneck Rampage, work on this OS with modern hardware?

Anti-aliased font support ...
by Gregory L. Marx on Mon 16th Aug 2004 17:16 UTC

FYI:

You can specify PMSHELL.EXE to use the new AA-font engine from InnoTek. It makes the WPS extremely good-looking.

It isn't totally 100% stable but personally I don't mind. IMO the eye-candy is worth it.

GLM