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Man, I love geeks at work! It may be not mutch use for now, but it sure shows how skilled MorphOS developers are. ;-)
yes that they are....
It even runs this amigaOne-demo.
the morphos community are just amazing. I just wish I could get my hands on a pegasos board, even a Peg1 would do..
soopa skills yes yes
I just ordered my Peg2, but if you don't want to pay much, go for the Peg1... a complete system could cost you not more than 600$... If you find the board on eBay it will cost you even less.
You could buy a good SGI system for $600...
Peg1 system for 600$... Slow G3 CPU...
Apple eMac for 799$ with 1.25Ghz G4, 256mb ram and 40Gig HD with included monitor. PowerPC CPU and OS X or Linux to boot.
Witch one would you buy? What make more sence?
Hopefully one day soon, MorphOS will run all OS4 apps, and OS4 will run all MorphOS apps. Then the bickering can stop and we can all come together as one community again.
All well and good, but you are missing the point. We don't want MacOS/OSX/Linux. We want MorphOS and AmigaOS, currently we can't run either on Mac hardware. Until then we are happy to spend a little extra for the environment we love. A1/Pegasos boards are "Big Boys Toys" as my missus calls them. :-)
A dead operaring system (MOS) will emulate the Beta-AOS4 without the Hyperion/Eyetech OS 4.0 Agreement License?
Thendic vs. AInc. again? ;o)
The copyright infringement - Part II
I really hope that they don't get into a "pissing" match again. The last thing the Amiga community needs is those two companies go at each other again. There arn't that many users left, they really should stop fighting over them.
Your prices are bit f*cked up! You can get a Pegasos 2 motherboard + 1Ghz G4 for 615 USD (499 EUR) from PegasosPPC.com web-store. Not Pegasos 1 with G3 like you claimed. Here in Finland the cheapest eMac cost 849 EUR. For a person who likes to build his/her own computer, the Pegasos 2 motherboard actually provides a considerably good value for price when compared to eMac. Let's not forget that Pegasos 2 is far more upgradeble then eMac. There's also the MorhpOS-factor, many people bought their Pegs to run MorphOS, not Linux or MacOS X.
All this Apple vs. Pegasos debute is rather childish. Macs are Pegs are not aimed at the same people. They are two different platforms for two different purposes. And get this, ALTERNATIVE COMPUTERS ARE ALWAYS EXPENSIVE. Why the hell is this so hard to understand? You can't possibly get the same price-performance ratio when you compare a manufacturer that produces a few thousand mobos and a manufacturer that produces hundreds of thousands mobos.
I'm getting really pissed of how people act at OSNews these days. What is this redicelous player hating? People are desparete for alternatives to Wintel monopoly, but when somebody tries to offer an alternative, people try to slag them down at every given opportunity. Nobody wants to understand nor respect other peoples views or opinions. Most people don't even bother to read what other people are saying or to verify their bullshit that they shoot of as facts.
>Apple eMac for 799$ with 1.25Ghz G4, 256mb ram and 40Gig
>HD with included monitor. PowerPC CPU and OS X or Linux to
>Witch one would you buy? What make more sence?
Let's compare the "bigger" machines. Pegasos2 vs. emac.
In Germany the Apple emac is 1099eur with:
80 GB HDD
DVD RW "Superdrive"
32MB Radeon 9200
17" CRT Monitor
A comparable Pegasos II G4 costs 999eur without CRT monitor:
DVD RW "Superdrive"
128MB Radeon 9200
6 months free subscription of AmigaFuture magazine.
For 1379EUR you get the same machine but with a 17inch TFT.
There's not much sense in comparing Pegasos boards with eMacs. Yes, they both have the same CPU. So do TI-85s and classic Game Boys.
You don't mention in your price comparison, that with eMac you have an OS that has thousands of applications for it.
and LOTS, LOTS more..
With the Pegasos, you can run Linux (which you can run on the eMac), or MorphOS.
For Linux, there are some nice apps, but none of them with the ubiquity, and polish of the apps on MacOS X.
On MorphOS, there are some apps, but not as polished or 100% file compatible with the rest of the world.
I'd love to see MorphOS develop further and get more apps.
But the point people miss is that computers are to DO things.
To surf a Webpage.
To balance your checking account.
To get email.
And as clunky as Windows is. Or whatever percieved faults people find with Apple or MacOS X..
Both of those OS'es just do those things BETTER than Linux, and MorphOS/AmigaOS does...
And comparing the price of the hardware doesn't tell the whole story.
I could build a VERY nice Pegasos 2 or AmigaONE System...
I don't, because I just don't see apps being developed for them...
I have to be able to USE the system to justify spending the money for it.
For someone to come out with an alternative to the Automobile (which is VERY useful), it will have to be AT LEAST as useful, or moreso...
And right now.. The AOne and the Peg are just not as useful to me as my PC or my PowerMac G4.
And that is worth a lot more to me than a few $$$.
>For Linux, there are some nice apps, but none of them with
>the ubiquity, and polish of the apps on MacOS X.
If you want to run MacOS you still can run MacOnLinux on
I'm really fedup with all those "I know everything and I've the biggest one" comments.
So I'll enumerate out of any order :
1. You want alternative, you have, than yes, you must accept that it's more costly as someone already explained it. It's normal than a peg2/G4 is more expensive than a mac.
2. Do you only want software alternative? or hardware also..
I don't consider apple as alternative, even though nobody is complaining about apple prices which are MUUUCH higher than equivalent speced PC.
3. Pegasos users are either professional using linux who chose pegasos for their own reasons which are usually inexistant for a particular, or particular using MorphOS.
At this time, there is no other choice for running MorphOS, so we pay the price, and bplan/Genesi need money to continue, because if they stop, I'll have a collector board in some years...
4. Radeon 9200 and 40GB hard drive ? small? not powerfull enough? but to do WHAT ??? to run morphOS, with every app you need, you need max 2GB of hard disk space (yes there's no type, i wrote 2 048MB), then there's 38GB free for datas... If I burn all my divx and other video datas onto DVD's, then 40GB is at least 4 times the max room I need...
Radeon 9200... to do what under MorphOS??? watching videos, playing Quake2 (3 for christmas) and some OpenGL software.. damn, it's quite sufficient... then why putting more into the peg ??? for the pleasure to say "I have a bigger than you" ?
5. I bought nearly 1 year ago a pegasos2 G4/1000 with 512MB DDR400 RAM, a Voodoo3 graphic board (personal choice for personal reasons), 40 GB Hard drive, CD Drive, micro ATX case post and packaging, for 900 euros (all taxes included)
I don't consider that as expensive...
Now people want different, and refuses to pay more, sorry, but it's not possible... except if you all accept to help mosTeam, bplan and genesi for free... then it would perhaps be possible...
In fact Terrasoft recomments running MacOS X (or 9) on MOL as a flexible solution.
To the people who complain about HD size - yes, it is small, BUT this disk still does its 58MB/s and is SILENT as measured by c't magazine (0.3 Sone idle, 0.4 Sone access noise)!
I already have several windows and linux pc's that do everything you mentioned. Why would I want an eMac that costs more than a PC that is infinitely superior performance wise? It won't run MorphOS. A Pegasos will.
Because you might want to run MacOS X and take advantage of all the neat apps for it.
I haven't found a PC to be "infinitely superior Perfomance wise".
Believe it or not, my Powermac G4 400mhz is as smooth to operate and use as my P4 3.2 Ghz machine.
And doesn't get constantly bogged down by Viruses and other things...
A Pegasos *MIGHT* be a nice machine. But having the logic board alone, cost more than an entire eMac fully blown...
Doesn't make sense.
If small PC Motherboard makers can make a logic board and sell it for less than $100 sans processor.
There's NO reason any of them couldn't also produce a PPC based logic board that uses any of the thousands of already available Macintosh ZIF or G4 AGP Logic board based processors for around $100.00
If I could buy a logic board for $100.00, put it in an ATX case with standard PC Components, and buy the OS for $100.00 (MorphOS or AmigaOS), AND... Buy my choice of processor (depending on my budget) from a G4 350 (overclockable to 450mhz) at $79.00 up to a G4 800mhz for $300.00...
Using G4 AGP type processors, get a G4 1ghz for $250.00..
I'd be willing to play.
That would get me into a working system FASTER, for half the price.
It's that the manufacturer of this board forgets that EVERY time someone has made a proprietary solution in this arena, they've failed... People who who use an open solution can succeed.
Imagine if they could sell 50,000 boards in a couple of months.
Rather than 1000 boards with a processor.
You make profit in selling the OS AND selling mass quantities.
Not by pricing yourself (and designing your product) so you only sell a few...
Microcode-Solutions was making a PCI Card that had a PPC Processor on it, as a co-processor for a current system.
Imagine if THAT card, sold for $250.00 plus $100 for MorphOS were sold...
And then... People with existing PC hardware could pop that in, and have a MUCH faster PPC system, running a lighter and faster OS...
People are making poor decisions in the alternate Processor/Logic Board space, and NOT learning from other companies past failures.
I wanted to buy an Alpha System. Nobody thought to make them to sell at computer shows alongside Intel Based Logic Boards...
A lost opportunity...
The PPC marketplace will be a lost opportunity until someone realizes that the goal should be to turn it into a commodity product and not keep it tightly gripped in their hands.
The hardware should only be a platform to sell the OS...
And the hardware should be sold as cheaply as possible to drive the OS sales, and the add-on software market...
Selling razors doesn't make money over the long term. Selling Razor Blades and Shaving Cream does...
Anyone who sells an overpriced proprietary Razor blade is going to go out of business. Someone who designs his product to have the widest possible market, won't.
"I already have several windows and linux pc's that do everything you mentioned. Why would I want an eMac that costs more than a PC that is infinitely superior performance wise? It won't run MorphOS. A Pegasos will."
Geez. As if MorhpOS is the holy grail for everyone who seeks an alternative for Windows or Linux. There are other alternatives besides the Pegasos/MorphOS platform which offer various (dis)advantages. For starters, MorphOS doesn't run quality applications such as Photoshop and it doesn't even have a TCP/IP stack. How do aspects like that justify the high price? It appears it only justifies it to a geek community. If you want to have wider adoption it appears you need 1) basic features for the OS fixed 2) lower the price so its not a geek-only toy anymore 3) get Genesi to fix their problems with their developers to raise trust. Until thats all fixed i give you little chance.
Look at yourselves people! All this zealot player-hating is redicelous and pathetic!
Why is it so hard for the most of you to accept that people do not want to used the same hardware or operating system as yourself?
If somebody wants to use a certain hardware and operating system AND is willing to pay for it, it's not your problem, it's not your loss, it's none of your farkin business.
If you are happy to use what ever you are using - fine. Let other people use what they prefer. Variety only makes life richer. Stop whining like a sorry little biaatch. Grow up and get a life.
You are missing totally that I would *LOVE* to play with alternate OS'es and Computers.
I do that as much as my budget will allow.
But stupidly designing the AOne and the Pegasos to come in at $1500.00 for a full blown system does not allow people to stick their toes in the water.
It's really a HUGE commitment in resources to buy either of these systems.
I played with BeOS and Linux for a long time, because the price of entry was low. I could use ANY $200.00 Intel Box to run either OS (including old used systems people left on the curb).
A FULL AmigaOne/Pegasos Entry level system ought to cost NO MORE than $500.00.
There can be higher priced/Higher performance systems for more money, of course...
But, $1200 - $1500 for the entry level machine is ludicrous.
Again, sell the logic board for $100 - $150, the OS for $59 - $100, and let me buy my own G3/G4 processor on the Mac Market or eBay for significantly less than what Eyetech and Genesi are getting them for...
THEN, I'd be willing to play with this.
But right now, you just don't get the value that the cost demands...
I can buy an iMac G5 17" for the same price as a Peg or an AOne...
And why wouldn't I???
The OS is more mature. The apps are there. The support is there...
You can defend the high prices all you like. It doesn't have to be that way, and that's MY argument.
Geez Al, you totally missed the point mr Big was trying to make.
Please ask somebody to explaing to you what a niche market means.
Alternative and/or niche platforms are not ment for an all-round solution for a typical home user who uses the computer for web-browsing, e-mail and word processing. The niche device is a niche device for a reason, and the potential customer buys it BECAUSE it's a niche device.
The niche device delivers something that a mainstream device doesen't, and a potential niche customer is willing to pay for it. Niche markets are NOT aimed primarly at people who want a easy-to-use all-round computer.
I know it might be difficult for you to understand, but everybody doesen't use their computer for the same things as yourself. People have different needs and they are willing to pay accordingly.
You price comparsions make as much sense as comparing the price-feature relation between a car and a motorcycle.