Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 17:47 UTC, submitted by DaaT
Zeta Driver guru Rudolf Cornelissen has started a project to try and make 3D hardware acceleration a reality in BeOS/Zeta. He's working to integrate the Nvidia driver and MESA, using as an example the utahGLX driver. For more details read the article over to IsComputerOn.
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open-sourcing
by blk on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 18:26 UTC

well it'd be about time for ati & nvidia to opensource their drivers - what's so bad about the other knowing what's under the hood? it can only bring good things! -> those who ought to make the start are the companies that nvidia and ati are bound to and because of whom the open-sourcing is not possible!
it'd be a great christmas present!

- yeah i know it's utopia - anyway - merry christmas

Open-sourcing
by BabyJesus on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 18:59 UTC

Rumor has it, that the source was leaked into the wild. (NVidia, not ATI)...

some questions
by zele on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 19:05 UTC

Why UtahGLX and not DRI?
Any plans for DRI support?
How feasible is it to port the UtahGLX Nvidia support to DRI?

Why not just port the BSD NVidia kernelmodule(not kerneldriver). And use DRI for all other cards

IMO UtahGLX is a dead end...

@zele
by Kian on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 19:42 UTC

He's not using UtahGLX. He's using it as a source of information for a native driver system. He could just as easily use DRI if there was an nVidia DRI driver.

v trying to care...
by Anonymous on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 19:55 UTC
still...
by zele on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 20:38 UTC

He's not using UtahGLX. He's using it as a source of information for a native driver system.

OK, I understand now. Still I think that the Nvidia linux kernel module (which is an HW acceleration framework that uses the nvidia kerneldriver) is a beter source for such information - UtahGLX is slow by design.

Does the linux kerneldriver run unchanged in BeOS, is some compartability layer required?

No hope for 3d...
by NoHope on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 21:08 UTC

There's no real hope for 3D until the Zeta folks address the 1GB limitation, which of course they can't since they obviously don't have the kernel source.

Not a troll, just pointing out the fact that new video cards have as much memory as some systems and sometimes more.

No hope for 3d...
by Earl Colby Pottinger on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 21:46 UTC

I don't see how that follows. Because a card can have a GByte of memory on it that is the only card I can buy? That does not make sense. If I have a 512K memory on the motherboard and a 3D Card with 512K what is the problem?

First, BeOS/Haiku is not Windows, there are few programs that are limited by only having 512K RAM available, and most of the programs that need that much memory are not ported BeOS anyway. Basicly, most BeOS/Haiku users at present don't need features that they are not using. The latest/greatest games are not being moved to BeOS, and most people working at the very highest ends of 3D work have to fight just to get a Linux system in-house much less a BeOS/Haiku one.

Second, the 1 GByte limit is not that hard and fast, VM can be set to more than 1 GByte and BeOS runs fine that way, also a number of people have reported using computers where the total sum memory of computer and video cards are greater than 1 GByte and it still works fine. It looks more like a problem with the AGP window size plus the total computer memory.

Last but not least Haiku is being designed to break the 1 GByte barrier and that is probably where you will see the driver really shine. Don't assume a BeOS is a Haiku limit.

Re: No hope for 3d...
by Piers on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 22:05 UTC

Nice to see you post again Carl (-:

Oneday this will be worth something but I'm afraid it won't be until Haiku makes its' make on the world. Zeta, poorly managed fluff.

RE:No hope for 3d...
by Hg . on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 22:14 UTC

"1GB limitation"
RAM Limiting Bootloader(512MB)
http://www.bebits.com/app/3851

You can play a modern games on Windows with only 512MB(including Video RAM) so I think 512MB is enough for a BeOS game.

Haiku
by NetSlayer on Thu 23rd Dec 2004 22:40 UTC

Hmmm... Is anybody able to reach the Haiku-OS website?

@netslayer
by Kian on Fri 24th Dec 2004 00:07 UTC

no, its down ATM. As is beunited. same server. the nailing Lists are up but dead quiet

v BeOS is DEAD.
by Nick on Fri 24th Dec 2004 00:40 UTC

Let's see:

It is dead! But new drivers are being developed for it? Yes.

It is dead! But Haiku is cloning it? Yes.

It is dead! But new programs appear on BeBits every week? Yes.

It is dead! But you are talking about here!

Boy, do you have a strange way of defining a dead OS. If it is so dead why are you reading the BeOS threads?

RE: BeOS is DEAD? How is that defined?
by Cramit on Fri 24th Dec 2004 02:27 UTC

I would rather call it very badly wounded...It is like the man in Monty Python and the Holy Grail being put on the cart with the dead, who is saying that he isn't quite dead yet, and is infact feeling better.

I hope that Haiku will fully revive BeOS, an operating system still ahead of the times. (Posted from an IBM 560x, 233mmx/92megs of ram running BeOS 5.03 pro like a dream)

Re: No hope for 3d...
by NoHope on Fri 24th Dec 2004 06:59 UTC

@Hg

Sorry the ram limiter is not a solution, and if it really was, Zeta people should be including it, here's the note about Ram limiter you pointed out from author:

[i]This patch is experimental, and not fully tested. It is to be regarded as alpha, and potentially harmful to your data. You must agree to use it entirely at your own risk before installing. I urge anyone with sensitive data to have it backed up before installing any software. Neither I, nor anyone else involved in these patches development can be held responsible for the loss of data and/or damage to hardware. God forbid you actually do business on your PC...<i/>

Dedicated people
by Anonymous on Fri 24th Dec 2004 13:11 UTC

I can't say how impressed I am by so many of these developers. People like Rudolf, Axel, Ingo, Stephano, Adi, Darkwyrm and many many others bringing my favourite OS back to life. Rudolf has done a tremendous effort in bringing some great new drivers to Haiku and now evolving them. What I now hope to happen is that Axel gives us all some similar gift ;P...

No pressure on him though from my side, he's already doing great stuff...

Some X-mas status report in newsletter form would be VERY much appreciated. If it can't be posted to the website (which is down), post it to Haikunews or ICO =)

Keep up the great work...

RE: Dedicated people
by Anonymous on Fri 24th Dec 2004 13:56 UTC

I agree 100% I love BeOS and have to say thanks to all the people that allow me to use it a little longer.

RE: Dedicated people
by anonymouse on Fri 24th Dec 2004 14:48 UTC

I agree too. BeOS is held in the hearts and hands of some very giving people who slowly bring forward a gift for all.

It is much appreciated. Best wishes to all for the many ways and forms that BeOS lives on today.

Still 100% BeOS
by Earl Colby Pottinger on Fri 24th Dec 2004 16:45 UTC

I will keep on using BeOS as long as it does what I need.

Web-Browser - yes.

Email - yes.

Usenet - yes.

Write my own program - yes.

Games - never were interested in arcade or shooters - BeOS ones ok for light fun.

3DCAD/FPGA/PCB designs - None - the programs I need are only available in windows - bummer.

Notes: need to recheck BeOS 3D Modelers, need to write PCB design program. But FPGAs will probably never be available on BeOS - shame.

v BeOS is D-E-A-D!
by Nick on Fri 24th Dec 2004 20:16 UTC
BeOS/Haiku
by DLazlo on Sat 25th Dec 2004 07:00 UTC

I'd like to wish that for you all it will Be a festive holliday season!

"I can't say how impressed I am by so many of these developers. People like Rudolf, Axel, Ingo, Stephano, Adi, Darkwyrm and many many others bringing my favourite OS back to life. Rudolf has done a tremendous effort in bringing some great new drivers to Haiku and now evolving them."

I'd have to second this! I should also say to those mentioned and a few others,
"Thank you! Your work done year round is better than any other gift I'll get this Christmas!! I hope you all take some time off and get as much enjoyment out of the hollidays as we get from the results of your efforts the rest of the year.
Oh, and Axel, you can come up out of the basement now, just not for too long! 8^)

DLazlo

I'm late in this conversation but...
by Tuishimi on Tue 28th Dec 2004 04:54 UTC

...I have the same sentiment as mentioned above. Until I cannot do what I need to do on BeOS I will continue to use it... and hopefully by that time, Haiku will be ready for Beta use.

As for games... I have quake, quake II, and civ. II running on my BeOS machine. ;) Enough fun for me. Actually I play Mahjonng more often than the others.

And I too give thanks for the dedicated developers! They do a great job and we don't thank them enough. In fact, I just whined about a bug in the beta version of Tracker.NewFS on bebits while the author has been working his behind off to get this thing out.

So I say here, publicly, Michael Lotz, THANK YOU for all of your hard work making Tracker.NewFS so fast and for your work with SVG.

Mike