Linked by David Adams on Tue 4th Jan 2005 17:22 UTC
Original OSNews Interviews OSNews "sat down" with Linspire CEO Michael Robertson for a Q&A about his company's efforts as the banner-carrier for Linux-on-the-desktop. We discussed the upcoming Linux Desktop Summit in San Diego and the perceptions and realities of the obstacles to widespread desktop Linux use. Linspire also extended a special offer to OSNews readers: a free download of Linspire and a 30 day CNR subscription, so put yourself in Granny's shoes (not literally, please) and give it a try. Correction: The free offer expires on January 15.
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Nothing New
by Al Hartman on Tue 4th Jan 2005 17:44 UTC

Good Interview. Nothing really new in it.

I wish he'd talk more about LPhoto, LSongs, and the upcoming Linspire 5.0

Also, I'm interested in his opinion about Xandros 3.0 and other "Desktop Linux" Distributions.

Nice interview
by [Knuckles] on Tue 4th Jan 2005 17:55 UTC

Nice interview, but I agree that I would have liked better to hear more about their upcoming work, and less the always-the-same "Is linux ready for the destop?" "Yes! Because .........".

What about NVu?
by Al Hartman on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:18 UTC

Michael has a LOT to talk about.

A lot of things that Linspire is contributing to the community...

Besides LSongs and LPhoto (currently only available to Linspire users), there is NVu, and his support of PhoneGAIM, and other SIP solutions for Linux.

Linspire has an unearned bad reputation amongst the Linux Elitists...

They just don't like an easy to use Linux Distribution to be available to the masses.

Interview?
by Don Reynoolds on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:21 UTC

From the article:
"Apple makes great products, but they are very, very expensive."

I do not find Apple products very expensive, you cannot put a price on quality. I will pay for quality, thinking you will save by going cheap or some product that is inferior thinking you are getting by is absurd.

I guess he was trying to say that his 'Linspire' is better quality than Apple but at a lower price. I don't think so, better luck next time.

Don Reynolds
Apple user and developer

re: What about NVu?
by AndrewG on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:26 UTC

I know you can download the source for Lsongs if you want it. I have it on my hard drive from about 2 weeks ago. Its 466K so if you can't find it on the Linspire site I'll email it to you.

There are quite a few dependencies and interestingly it uses Python.

From the README
----------------------------------------------------------

Requirements for LSongs

python 2.3
PyQt
PyKDE
id3lib, pyid3lib (pyid3lib.sourceforge.net) - used to read/write MP3 tags
xine, pyxine - used to play all audio tracks - need plugins for supported media types, plus goom
cdparanoia - used to rip CDs
lame, pylame - used to encode ripped CD tracks as MP3s
mpg321 - used to transcode MP3s into PCM audio for burning CDs
cdrecord - used for burning tracks to CDs
vorbis-tools - used to encode/transcode Ogg Vorbis tracks (ogginfo, oggenc)
libnjb - used to read/write to Dell Digital Jukebox
njbtools - used to read/write to the Dell Digital Jukebox
sox - used to transcode tracks

Linspire as an introduction
by Ewan Grantham on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:34 UTC

Linspire (then Lindows) was the first Linux I was able to get up and running and stable a couple years ago. Partly this is because they were targeting the new Linux user (which isn't always the same as a newbie user, but there is overlap), and partly because they have what is still probably one of the best group of people running their forums that there are.

I think that is one of the greatest strengths of their distribution, and will become even more valuable as time goes on. CNR is a useful tool as well, although technologies such as Klik and Synaptic give you much of the same ability. But a knowledgeable community is worth it's weight in CDs :-)

RE: Interview?
by john on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:38 UTC

Excellent to see positive comments. I think this guy is a genius and he is going to make desktop linux a player. Linspire isn't for me (I like SUSE) but it is a desktop that my Aunt Jane can use. I often find myself sticking up for Linspire against the linux snobs, so once again, nice to see positive comments. I read a comment by Robertson a year or so ago where he said he thought that Linux could find a niche on the ends of the computer user spectrum, newbies and power users. This is the only distro that makes an honest stab at the newbie end. I too would have liked to see more info on what's next.
Mention Apple and its user base crawls out of the darkness to stick up for them, regardless of the context. I think Robertson is focusing on the low end of the spectrum, linspire boxes sell for 200 or 300 dollars. In this realm Apple is expensive. Linspire is the Pinto of OS's while Apple is the BMW, some BMW driver could state: "I don't think BMW is expensive, you can't put a price on quality." True, you can't...but some of us are stuck with our Pintos.

did it end quickly?
by Devilotx on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:43 UTC

I mean, at the end of page 2 it just stops, no closing no nothing... strikes me as a little odd...

Linspire Supports GLP and others
by Wazari5 on Tue 4th Jan 2005 18:59 UTC

http://info.linspire.com/opensource/

I don't see ANY linux distro that gives this much back to the Open Source Community while taking on Microsoft. I have been using Lispire including all it incantations for the last 3 years and it is a rock solid OS with lots of really good software. I hope that this continues. I also wish success to Xandros, Lycros, Suse........ they all have a place and it give us the customer CHOICE, and if this healthy competition kick MS to produce better products then we win all round.

I'm a Computer Systems Analyst and where I work we support over 10,000 people. More than 60% of these people could, right now, do everything they need to with LinSpire. The percentage is probably higher but I'm being VERY conservative. What those people use is 1) web browser - business apps, e-mail, and word processing. Everything they need is good enough and available with LinSpire and maybe also Xandros. But LinSpire seems to be even easier with their security of "groups" of users that you can assign apps to. I haven't seen this with Xandros (though it may exist.)

And of all the people I know (and I know quite a few). Easily, VERY easily 80% of them could use LinSpire (and maybe Xandros) without anymore hassles or problmes than with Windows. My feeling is that it would definitely be with LESS hassle based on having friends try LinSpire at my house.

one more note
by Sabon on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:14 UTC

I should add one more note. I prefer my Mac to LinSpire but run both at home. I'm even signed up as a LinSpire "Insider."

I also run BeOS and eComStation (OS/2) at home. But always end up using my Mac when I need to get work done. My second choice has become LinSpire. Windows is my 7th choice.

Thanks for the comments...
by Kevin Carmony on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:15 UTC

And thank you to OSNews for offering up the interview.

As you can see from the Interview, Michael answered the questions that OSNews asked. I'm sure he'd be happy to do a follow-up and answer any additional questions you might find interesting (about Lsongs, Lphoto, Nvu, Music Store, Linspire Five-0, etc.), and of course, a lot of the future of Desktop Linux will certainly be shown at the upcoming summit (www.desktopsummit.com)

Feel free to post questions here, and perhaps we can convince OSNews to run a follow-up.

Thanks for the input.

Kevin Carmony
President, Linspire, Inc.

AndrewG: re: What about NVu?
by P on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:21 UTC

Where is the place to download the LSongs source code?I'm interested in trying it out ;)

thanks

v RE: Interview?
by Severus on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:22 UTC
May be a little off topic...
by Semyazza on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:24 UTC

This may be a little off topic but I know it's always something not really advertised on the linspire site.... ftp://130.94.123.237/linspire-4.x-source/ the modified sources for linspire....Otherwise good Job Robertson!!!! Thanks for the linux support and contributing back to the community.

Linspire is fine for this Windows Refugee
by David Ross on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:25 UTC

I've used Windows for about 12 years now and was evaulating various Linux distributions for home use. I settled on Linpire despite some concerns about it being a "dumbed down" distro that lacked power and capability. Boy, was I wrong. Compared to the (admittedly few) other distros I had tried,and to Windows itself, Linspire is a model of usability. It's not as refined (yet) as mainstream OSes, and the app support is not fully there either, but the stability, lack of viruses/adware/BSOD's etc., and security make it a pleasure to use. And the CNR warehouse is a marvelous software update mechanism unequalled on ANY platform. It's worth a look for all but the most die-hard Linux fanatics, if only to see where the future lies for desktop distributions. As always, IMHO only!

RE: Thanks for the comments...
by Nathan O. on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:29 UTC

Well, since you put it out there... :-)

What's going on with Windows format compatibility? I could do absolutely everything natively in Linux right now if I didn't need CrossOver to integrate with the Windows environment.

I don't use LinSpire, but I have used it, and it really is excellent. It's very true that LinSpire's negative rep is 99% undeserved. If the desktop wasn't quite so thoroughly branded, I'd say 100% :-)

Respect for Mr. Robertson and Linspire
by sealtit on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:35 UTC

I'm what many would call a "Linux Elitist." Linux is the only OS I use and Gentoo is my distro of choice. I would never even consider trying Linspire . . .

That being said, I would just like to say that I have the utmost respect for Michael Robertson and what he's trying to do. While I would never use Linspire myself, I would recommend it to my non-tech savvy friends and family.

In addition to making an easily accessible Linux distro for everyday users, Linspire is helping the entire open source community by sponsoring projects such as Nvu, Gaim, Firefox, and Reiser4.

Mr. Robertson, I wish you luck with this endeavor.

P.S.
I always loved mp3.com, it was an awesome place to find out about new independent bands. It's a shame that never worked out.

RE: Thanks for the comments...
by Dogacan Guney on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:38 UTC

The main selling point of Linspire seems to be "If you can do the same in another environment, then choose the cheaper one!"

Obviously, I know nothing about marketing, but this question comes to mind:
But what if Windows goes free/(cheaper than linux) in some time in the future?

If desktoplinux is marketed like that...Will rich ppl ever try linux:)?

Shouldn't we advertise linux as "better, faster, more secure..etc.." and not as "well....it's so so....but it's cheaper!"

Followup comments
by David Adams on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:38 UTC

I'll take Kevin Carmony up on his offer. I'll select follow-up comments from among those that you submit here, and we'll forward them on to Michael. So bring 'em on.

Linspire forums
by Anonymous Penguin on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:38 UTC

They are indeed among the most pleasant to visit. Users and mods are incredibly tolerant. You are absolutely free to discuss and praise other distros, the mods will join in and talk about their own experience in a very objective fashion.
There are also plenty of knowledgeable people and very few questions, if any, will go unanswered. Hardly anything is considered offtopic, if posted in the right section.

Linspire 5
by Adam Scheinberg on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:40 UTC

I have used every version of Linspire since Lindows 2.0, and each one has been a nice, steady improvement. Like Xandros, they are really doing a lot more for the "Linux movement" than most realize.

How come no mention of Linspire 5? That's what I'm really interested in. I keep hearing from Insiders that it's so fantastic, so it's strange to see no marketing hype here.

Linspire Starts Looking Outdated
by Anonymous on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:51 UTC

KDE 3.0? Come on. Release Linspire 5 quickly!

sealtit - Thanks for your "informed" opinion.
by Sabon on Tue 4th Jan 2005 19:54 UTC

sealtit - If you've never used it how do you know it isn't any good? Because other people told you? I can only say that my experience with Lindows/LinSpire was VERY different than what people tried to tell me it would be.

After trying it out (because I wasn't happy with Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat, etc., I asked those people how much they had used Lindows/LinSpire and what version(s) they had used.

It's turns out none of them had tried it. But that "everyone knew" blah blah blah. Try it before you "dis" it. You just might be as surprised as I was.

Note that one of my hobbies is "playing" with OSs. I've got over eight current OSs running or duel booting on computers at home. My favorite is Mac, LinSpire second and so on. Windows is my seventh favorite (I support it at work too) of them all.

Is it only me. Or are the rest of you tired of "I haven't used it but" posts.

Never using Linspire?
by Al Hartman on Tue 4th Jan 2005 20:03 UTC

What I don't understand is the following...

Linspire IS Linux.

It is a 100% Debian Distribution. It's been slightly modified, and the KDE it uses has been modified with a Linspire Theme...

But, it's Linux.

If it's bad, ALL Linuxes are bad...

I don't understand what the problem is with it.

I have used Red Hat, Caldera, Fedora, Mandrake, Xandros, Redmond Linux, and MEPIS.

I like Linspire best. And am holding off on buying Xandros 3.0 professional until I see what Linspire 5.0 is like. I can always add Crossover Office to it.

I'm one of the people who is VERY unhappy that Lindows/Linspire dropped the concept of having WINE tightly coupled to the OS.

I want to replace Windows and still use all my apps.

I really don't want to transition to a new OS and have to buy or learn all new apps.

I was originally attracted to Lindows for that reason, and bought it...

I'm hoping ReactOS becomes mature enough to replace Windows for me.

Besides that, I think Linspire is a great OS.

Sabon - Thanks for your stupid flaming
by ralph on Tue 4th Jan 2005 20:13 UTC

In case you didn't notice, sealtit made a very positive comment about linspire. Perhaps you should try to read the whole comment the next time before starting to flame.

Anyway, here are some questions that interest me.
1. As some people already mentioned, I'd really like to know a litte bit more about the upcoming linspire release. What can we expect? What will be the greatest advances in your opinion?

2. I'd really would like to give lphoto and lsongs a try. Are there any plans to release them outside of linspire? (Like you did with nvu. Thanks for this great app btw.)

3. Disclaimer: I've never used linspire and this is based on what I read about it, so if I'm wrong about this, please correct me. AFAIK linspire defaults to running root and this is really something that bothers me and would prevent me from recomending linspire to people. The problem is not only that running as root sacrifices a lot of linux' security, but also that it's really easy to mess up your computer running as root.

Games
by Storm on Tue 4th Jan 2005 20:40 UTC

The games part of the interview sounded silly to me.

We dont worry about games because thats not what PC's are for, go buy a console - most adults go the other way from console to PC..

strange....
by insane?! on Tue 4th Jan 2005 20:41 UTC

It is erie to see not one dissenting opinion on OSNews. Reminds me of Yoper's ranking on Distrowatch when it sponsored DW.

Price: Linspire vs windows
by mezzanine on Tue 4th Jan 2005 21:21 UTC

The problem is you can use firefox open office, gimp, etc. on windows too and there are also good, free anti-virus and spyware removers. Also Sp2 solved most problems.

re: Price: Linspire vs windows
by Wazari5 on Tue 4th Jan 2005 21:32 UTC

I totally agree that you can use firefox open office, gimp on windows. Why doesnt MS with all its money make products as good as these for the same cost? Also service pack 2 has solved *some* problems. As a security specialist at a financial institution and a person who sees MS NDA on security patches which get eventually get released in to the public domain I have to say that Microsoft and security are at different ends of the playing field at this present time. Some patches that MS release just don't work! or that they are release months after the exploit has been made known. But hey if this type of competition is what it takes to get MS to pull its finger out and start producing better cheaper software then all good eh?

Re: Price: Linspire vs windows
by Al Hartman on Tue 4th Jan 2005 21:36 UTC

@mezzanine

The problem is you can use firefox open office, gimp, etc. on windows too and there are also good, free anti-virus and spyware removers. Also Sp2 solved most problems.

Not for me. SP2 crashed three of my computers, so much so... I had to wipe and reload them.

And none of what you typed addresses the almost instant infestation of Windows by all sorts of Virii and other nasties.

BEFORE you can download all that freeware, you have to connect to the Internet. About 20 minutes after you've done that, your computer is infested...

That doesn't happen with MacOS, Linux, Linspire, BeOS or other OS'es.

I *like* Windows, I use it EVERY DAY. I'm using it now...

I like MacOS X better than any Linux Distribution.

But, I think you are missing the point if you think that running Windows with Open Source Apps is comparable to a completely Open-Source OS and apps.

Sure, OSS apps lack the polish that Windows and MacOS X have. And some of the driver support.

But... They are a lot less prone to being attacked from malicious people.

re: Price: Linspire vs windows
by anza00 on Tue 4th Jan 2005 21:59 UTC

So mezzanine, you have to use antivirus and spyware remover and keep them up to date. Also you have to defrag your hard drive when using Windows. That's seems a lot of wasted time to keep your computer running. Isn't your computer suppose to help you get your work done and not the other way around? That's why I like Linux better.

Questions...
by Kevin Carmony on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:06 UTC

"I'll take Kevin Carmony up on his offer. I'll select follow-up comments from among those that you submit here, and we'll forward them on to Michael. So bring 'em on."

Thanks David. I've already seen some very good ones in this thread that MR will happily address in the follow-up.

Kevin

@mezzanine
by Chris on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:07 UTC

Yea, it's other things too though.
Although, with some good defaults Windows could be so much better.... It's very annoying to see them set such stupid defaults, and they've always been bad about it.
Frankly though, Windows just doesn't even compare for me. I love things like enlightenments' interface, bash's features, X's network aptitude, ssh's everything, and a host of other things that either don't exist on Windows or simply don't work very well on Windows. But I'm a techie user.
But I'd love to see more people switch. Another thing is though, there are a lot of little applications that aren't ported to Windows that are very handy. Dictionary apps, mail apps, text editors, and other little but wonderful things like these.

Warehouse: Inkscape
by HC Andersson on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:42 UTC

Why doesn't Linspire put the excellent Corel Draw/Illustrator clone Inkscape in their warehouse?

Re: Linspire v. Redmond
by troy banther on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:44 UTC

Free at last, free at last. Thank ....

Seriously. There is no comparison between the two. BSD and Linux both rock. I use FreeBSD, Slackware, Ubuntu, and Beatrix depending on what I need to do.

I tried Linspire and it was okay. It's a bit too Redmond-y for my tastes. But I wish all Linux companies great success.

Price no concern,support is.
by DarkTrancer on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:44 UTC

I read the review which was great and thought it might be nice to try it for myself,since i just seen xandros 3.0 on a friends computer running great and with some of his windows programs running along side too.
So i clicked on of the links for hardware compatabilty lists,i`m affraid to say that it seems like the only supported piece of hardware i have is my lcd monitors,no idea even if dual screen is supported.
Granted,my hardware isn`t quite the norm:
amd64 3200+,1.5gig of ddr400,gigabyte nforce3 250 mobo,2x200gig maxtor diamondmax 9 sata,2x300gig maxtor diamondmax 10 sata,2x200gig maxtor ata133,Marvell gigabit lan+Nvidia 100mbit lan,geforce fx 6800,winfast 2000 xp deluxe tv card,pioneer a07 dvdrw,herculese dj console mixer...so on.

I`m not trying to point fingers here at linspire,but tell me how it benefits me personlly to go from windows to linspire?
anza00 said "Isn't your computer suppose to help you get your work done and not the other way around? That's why I like Linux better.",linux doesn`t help me when i am using 3d studio max,nor when i wish to use my dj mixer.
So,i`ll leave it and say that it isn`t possible for every person to dump windows and move to linux,i wish i could and the closest i have got so far is Unbuntu.
Other than that i love linux ;)

When Linspire 5.0?
by MacBerry on Tue 4th Jan 2005 22:49 UTC

The subject says it all...

So when a release for "the rest of us"? (I heard the insiders have got some RCs already)

The McGyver of software!
by earl on Tue 4th Jan 2005 23:00 UTC

MacGyver has been re-incarnated!
All Michael Robertson needs to do is grow his hair long, and we'd have a 'MacGyver' of Linux!

Frontpage
by Dude on Tue 4th Jan 2005 23:01 UTC

cost $s in Windows apart from Frontpage, Frontpage and Frontpage.

@ Chris
by mezzanine on Tue 4th Jan 2005 23:16 UTC

i wasn't talking about myself, although i do mostly use windows. My slackware box just sits there serving php, i don't really use it as a desktop.

Free Linspire 4.5
by Dimble on Tue 4th Jan 2005 23:43 UTC

"error 503 - incorrect login"

perhaps that haven't authorised the free download yet?

Free Linspire 4.5
by Dimble on Tue 4th Jan 2005 23:47 UTC

ignore me, they appear to have authorised the download link now.

RE: Free Linspire 4.5
by Mikko K. on Wed 5th Jan 2005 00:01 UTC

I have to give credit for this. I downloaded the free version and installed it on my laptop. Everything works great, except my D-link DWL-610 wlan-card, that has so far never worked out of the box in linux. Installation was even easier than suse, but I would have liked to see partition manager of some sort for advanced users.

I like the way Linspire is making Windows users feel home. Linspire uses much same names and structures as windows, which will make windows users feel home. I believe this is the key to catch windows users to go for Linspire. Also one click software installs are way to go. Some sort of integrated Wine would be nice, for win users to be able to use some of their favorite software still (I have to use Windows just because my accounting software still has little problems with linux when printing).

With little better hardware support (Which will come by the time of course) I can recommend Linspire for anyone, even my customers. Unfortunately the biggest problem still is professional software (autocad, accounting software etc etc. ) that are windows-only. Having email progs and internet progs, office progs etc. arent everything.

Anyway, big plus for Linspire and the developer team, your doing great job!

Good read
by jimmt on Wed 5th Jan 2005 00:08 UTC

Very good read. I am on the mailing list and I enjoy the letters from Michael Robertson. I too was a big fan of MP3.COM and was sadden when Universal purchased it and pretty much did away with it. I think Micheal is a visionay and from what I read I like the CNR model of delivering software. I am looking forward in trying out the software using the free discount offered ;)

Jim

Does not compute
by Russian Guy on Wed 5th Jan 2005 00:22 UTC

How can that statement:

"The second reason people are considering desktop Linux is to avoid the cost and hassle of endless security issues from viruses, spyware, and other malicious software which are now part of the daily life for Microsoft Windows users. Today, these are basically non-existent for Linux so users can focus on getting their jobs done and not baby-sitting their computer."

can be combined with this statement:

"Unfortunately, computer viruses are now a way of life for computer users around the world. Malicious code worms spread through destructive email attachments, peer-to-peer programs and other means waste countless hours of time and cost billions of dollars each year.
The number of Linux viruses is currently low, but that number is on the rise as the number of Desktop Linux systems continues to grow.
To make sure your computer is ready for anything, by popular demand Linspire, Inc. announces new VirusSafe Protection for your Linspire computer!"


Can someone explain that, please? Are you saying that tomorrow, when number of Linux desktops will grow, Linux users will have to spend time baby-sitting their computer, like they do with Windows?
Of course, if they pay for VirusSafe Protection, their Linspire is protected, but how is that different from staying with Windows and paying for anti-virus for Windows?

Here it is, your reason #2, goes down the drain.

*****************************

Also, I admire Linspire for targeting "noobs." But, perhaps, my understanding of "noobs" is diffrent from Michael's company: not in any scary dreams could I imagine "noobs" I am helping with Windows computers spending several hundred for an office suit, and hundreds more for Frontpage, Visio and Frontpage. That does not happen.
They just buy computer, at most add MS Works for $49 on top of it- and it just works. Of course, $0 OpenOffice for Windows is always an option for people who count each cent.

Which means, the reason #1 of why people should go with Linspire exists only in Lispire marketing department.

******************************

CNR: fantastic tool! I wish Microsoft had something like that. Well, would not it be a vendor lock-in if Microsoft had such tight control over which software is delivered to Windows users? I leave it for someone else to answer that.

*******************************

The largest opportunities for desktop Linux in the near term are the "green field" opportunities in emerging markets.

Is China an emerging market? That what Michael said just few moths ago: Despite popular rumors, I saw no indications of meaningful desktop Linux adoption in China. It seems that choice is slow to arrive in this Asian giant.

How about other Asian markets? How about Russia? How about Eastern Europe?

It does not compute. Can I get a clear definition of emerging market, please? Does emerging market mean USA and Western Europe only? That is Microsoft turf, you know that, right?
Yes, you do: If someone has already paid for Microsoft Windows XP, then they are a much tougher sell for desktop Linux.

*********************************

Good luck with Linspire, it is good to see consumer oriented Linux distro positioning itself against developer-oriented distros notorious for their disregard to end user (a.k.a. "noob") needs.

But please, please, please refresh your sales pitch and marketing materials. They have not been updated for a lnog time, and with Microsoft aggresively working on keeping Windows alive and with much more people trying Linux (in different incarnations) your marketing materials do not look that well anymore.
They sound more and more like "OpenSource does not have bugs," if you know what I mean.

Wish you good luck. Without companies like yours we would not have Microsoft improve its product as much as it does.

It is fruit of competition: every consumer wins. Even if some of us will stil buy software from Microsoft we should and will be thankful to you and other Linux vendors for their job of keeping competition alive.

question for M.R
by Anonymous on Wed 5th Jan 2005 00:33 UTC


"I'll take Kevin Carmony up on his offer."

Ok , I will byte as I have respect for David Adams.

( here it goes , question that whont be answered ;-) )

1. Its now 2005 , Linspire whas created sometime in 2001 ( december ? ), since its creation it as never been profitable , dont you think that after 4 Years it might be time to make some real changes ? I am not talking about software , you have a somewhat good offering. I am talking about replacing Your President and COO for failing to meet the #1 "minimum" expectation any company leader should have : break even. As everyone know a company Leader real goal is to make a profit.

2. Maybee the problem is not Kevin Carmony or the two function ( President and COO ) he occupy ( maybee it is ) , could it be your fault for demanding too much of him and what he seems unable to accomplish ? Could it be that you are trying too many things and not accomplishing one fully ? Do you think you have given him the right people for accomplishing is task ?

3. Speaking of right people one person I am sure you will somewhat agree is not doing is job is Larry Kettler your VP of Global Sales , as your sales number dont meet the goal of at least breaking even , why asn't he be replaced yet ? 3-4 years is a long time , you should have add at least one year of profit by now.

4. When/if Linspire 5.0 finaly come out will you release a free ( cost and freedom ( GPL )) copy of Linspire 4.0 over the internet ? Dont you think it would go a long way in redeeming your bad image in the GNU/Linux community ?

5. Dont you think by now that refusing to join the LSB and the Free Standards Group and the The Gnu/Linux Core Consortium that your hurting your company and your sales ? The LSB and FSG you are already agreeing too anyway behing based of Debian ?

6. When are you going to aknowledge publicly and respectfuly the fact that your a GNU/Linux OS appliance based of Debian ? Dont you think that creating a Logo saying Debian based and puting it on the cover of your boxes and a Thank you note accompanying your product would help garner you some sales from the very large Debian base group who dont like your product because of this ?

7. Dont you think that revisiting your Eula and answering the point so many people seems to disagree with ( by changing it for terms more in line with what Mandrake , Red Hat and Novell/SuSe do) will not give you more sales in the End ?

8. After your failed IPO , do you think you will try again this year ? Do you have a new strategy ? will you really include your loyal user this time ?

9. You have a 498$ laptop in sale at Walmart , dont you think that by offering a really good paiment plan like Dell as for there offer you would not make a hundred thousand more sale ?

10. You seem to be targeting the low end where you have a very limited margin , when are you going to target the high end where the markup are higher ?

ZD 8000 :
- http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2045

Acer Folio

- http://global.acer.com/about/2004newlook/01.htm

Acer Ferrari 3400

- http://global.acer.com/products/notebook/fr3400.htm

I got more questions but I doubt those will be answered.

Linspire is right on its approach
by Hagarke on Wed 5th Jan 2005 00:50 UTC

Linspire is right on its approach towards users ...

Let me explain. I'm a programmer. You have no idea what users can do to a program. Ask them to click on something, you can be sure they double-click on it ....

Linspire is right. You do not want a user to have the choice between Open Office, KOffice and the rest. You do not want them to have a choice between KDE and Gnome.

Users are of a simple breed. They need one thing to do their stuff. Give it to them and they are happy. Don't give them two, that's one too much ....

We, geeks, need a choice between KDE and Gnome, users just need to open Word documents and change them. Everybody behind a keyboard has their destiny .....

This is where the Mac shines: 1 look, easy to use, lots of software, ...

I use both, OSX and Linux. IMHO, KDE is better than Finder, but people, please get things together and start offering a dumb user solutions instead of choices ... They come from a world where there is no choice. Typing is done in Word, calculating is done in Excel, rebooting is done in Windows ...........


Wow. Pretty good read!
by Lorenzo on Wed 5th Jan 2005 02:34 UTC

Many haven't been to kind to Mr. Robertson and LindowsOS/Linspire. Perhaps part of this is that he's attempting to take Linux into an area that nobody had thought of.

Well, you have to admit that this guy has true guts to keep going the way he has. Not only did he go up against Microsoft, but he had to contend with some very nasty attitudes within Linux as well.

This guy is not only a 'dreamer' and a 'thinker,' but also a person with the personality & drive to try to pull it off. There aren't too many folks out there with that combination of guts & grit.

Do I use LindowsOS/Linspire? Nope. Tried it, and decided to stay with SuSE. Pure choice, really. Will I try it again? More than likely!

I think this interview was very nicely done and quite professionaly conducted.

Kudos.

coupon code
by darren on Wed 5th Jan 2005 02:39 UTC

What the heck is the coupon code?

Linspire has left an impression
by Dan Allen on Wed 5th Jan 2005 03:21 UTC

I have been a Linux user for a long time and I simply cannot deny that I have been impressed by Linspire.

Michael is absolutely correct, installing applications should be simple. It has been a major shortcoming of Linux ever since the days when tarballs were the only option (they do have their place, but that is not my point). I have often browsed the Linux software release sites to check out new software, but it was always laborous to then install the program (only to find out I was not interested). I enjoy much more using Click-n-Run because I can actually try out new programs without wasting valuable time.

Linspire also has great communication with users. The forums are pleasing to look at (hint hint Mandrake), Michael's notes are fun to read (even if they are scattered with Trumpisms) and Click-n-Run has a lifeblood of its own that ties you in to the daily activity of Linspire.

I disagree that games are limited on Linux. Sure, some of the big titles are still on the back burner, but options do exist. Native games like UT2004, Doom3 and Savage are quality ports. Transgaming works tremendously well with a handful of old titles as well as the latest and greatest, Half-Life2 and World of Warcraft. For time killing games, nothing can beat what Linux has to offer. It is this genre that has garnered the most support from the programming community on which Linux rests.

I cannot wait to see what Linspire 5.0 has in store. My hope is that I can migrate to 5 without having to do any sort of installation. Don't get me wrong, I love to install Linux, but the family computer must be stable and is not a candidate for experimentation. Keep up the great work Linspire!

RE: coupon code
by darren on Wed 5th Jan 2005 03:52 UTC

Nevermind. I see the link now.

@P -> LSongs source code
by AndrewG on Wed 5th Jan 2005 05:45 UTC
Re: @P -> LSongs source code
by AndrewG on Wed 5th Jan 2005 05:47 UTC

Oops, first line should read "Source for LSongs" and not "Source for Linspire"

Re: Don Reynoolds and Apple
by Ankit Malik on Wed 5th Jan 2005 05:54 UTC

" From the article:
"Apple makes great products, but they are very, very expensive."

I do not find Apple products very expensive, you cannot put a price on quality. I will pay for quality, thinking you will save by going cheap or some product that is inferior thinking you are getting by is absurd.

I guess he was trying to say that his 'Linspire' is better quality than Apple but at a lower price. I don't think so, better luck next time."

Was he Don?

I don't think so!

Apple products are way expensive, I agree! And did he ever say that Linspire products are better in quality than Apple. He just said they are expensive!

Man, you know how to interprete things! Do you?

And if you are really sure quality always comes @ a price, Try Mozilla Firefox someday!

Most of the time, questions that start with "Don't you think", and "When are you going to" aren't actually questions. It just the questioner wanting state his own opinions on a subject without actually bothering to learn the motivation for anything he questions.

For instance I'm not Michael Robertson but I can answer most of your senseless flaming just as easily:

Question 1: dont you think that after 4 Years it might be time to make some real changes ?

Answer: No.

2. could it be your fault for demanding too much of him and what he seems unable to accomplish ? Could it be that you are trying too many things and not accomplishing one fully ? Do you think you have given him the right people for accomplishing is task ?

Answer: No. No. Yes.

4. When/if Linspire 5.0 finaly come out will you release a free ( cost and freedom ( GPL )) copy of Linspire 4.0 over the internet ? Dont you think it would go a long way in redeeming your bad image in the GNU/Linux community ?

The first question is something I'm interested in as well. However to answer the second question, definately not - people like you are in the GNU/Linux community and nothing every makes you all happy.

5. Dont you think by now that refusing to join the LSB and the Free Standards Group and the The Gnu/Linux Core Consortium that your hurting your company and your sales ? The LSB and FSG you are already agreeing too anyway behing based of Debian ?

Answer: No. Honey, the second sentance isn't a question - it needs a period at the end of it.

6. When are you going to aknowledge publicly and respectfuly the fact that your a GNU/Linux OS appliance based of Debian ? Dont you think that creating a Logo saying Debian based and puting it on the cover of your boxes and a Thank you note accompanying your product would help garner you some sales from the very large Debian base group who dont like your product because of this ?

Someone needs and ego stroking apparently in the first question. Second question: No.

7. Dont you think that revisiting your Eula and answering the point so many people seems to disagree with ( by changing it for terms more in line with what Mandrake , Red Hat and Novell/SuSe do) will not give you more sales in the End ?

Answer: No.

9. You have a 498$ laptop in sale at Walmart , dont you think that by offering a really good paiment plan like Dell as for there offer you would not make a hundred thousand more sale ?

Question: How do you know Linspire controls the payment plans and not Walmart?

$500 iMacs?
by ali88 on Wed 5th Jan 2005 07:54 UTC

"Apple makes great products, but they are very, very expensive."
I think $500 iMacs will be a great answer to him!
(I know its just a rumor now!)
Good Luck.

linspire 5
by tom on Wed 5th Jan 2005 08:53 UTC

I too want more information on linspire 5...

Linspire 5
by Ankit Malik on Wed 5th Jan 2005 10:08 UTC

All i want from Linspire 5 is an additional text based install too! So that people like me with exotic graphics card can also install Linspire without getting...............!

Vincent (IP: ---.se.client2.attbi.com)
by Anonymous on Wed 5th Jan 2005 14:37 UTC


"For instance I'm not Michael Robertson"

Answer :

No Really ! lol

" but I can answer"

Answer :

No

note : You can always offer your cv and your qualification with a way to verify them. I like laughing at those that are assuming that selling Gnu/Linux in a commercial capacity is easy , even really rich people in business in IT segment have and would fail , even more when its a Debian base ...

" most of your senseless flaming just as easily:""

Answer :

No ( its not flamewar ) , No ( you have no clue what your talking about ).

I would like to reply to your clueless personnal and uninformed comment in your answer to M.R. question( even do I bet that the rest is probably in Tune with what M.R. is thinking , hence why there not making any money even do there software is somewhat good)

"people like you are in the GNU/Linux community and nothing every makes you all happy"

Yes , but whe make the stuf, its our game and where winning. Linspire aint , it would be sad to see them disapear.

"No. Honey, the second sentance isn't a question - it needs a period at the end of it."

I aint your honey. and its a good question.

" Someone needs and ego stroking apparently in the first question"

Someone (you) need a reality check.

"Question: How do you know Linspire controls the payment plans and not Walmart?"

The question whas :

"9. You have a 498$ laptop in sale at Walmart , dont you think that by offering a really good paiment plan like Dell as for there offer you would not make a hundred thousand more sale ? "

Let me say this , you like to rewrite my question to fit the answer you whant to give , you have clearly done this on all of them , this question is no different and you obviously forget what the suposed purpose of this is ( I add that your wrong and dont know what your talking about in all of them ) :

Ask Michael Robertson questions about Linspire.

Obviously M.R. dont control what Walmart does and I dont expect him to have any leverage with them either , but the question is simple in itself so I will take your little hand and try and I say try, to explain it to poor little you.

Dell is the #1 OEM Laptop vendor , they sale milions of them in many types of models in many types of packages , I compared One offer of Dell vs the one offer at Walmart from Linspire and the diference I see is that Dell as some paiement plan offer wich the Linspire dont have ( for people like me I se as an easy disadvantage to surmount ) , clearly many people prefer to pay monthly paiement ( remember the Dell is #1 part , it help to come to that conclusion , the billion they made last year in income too ).

Now this being said M.R. can do two things , think I am a stupid anonymous without a clue and do nothing. Or he can say hum , lets try this sugestion it cost nothing to find someone to offer a paiement plan on the walmart laptop , that can be offered from the linspire site , all they would do is act like the middleman and collect say 20$ on each laptop they would sale this way, plus they get to know who the clients are. Plus the click and pay income from the fact that the Laptop is loaded with linspire and as click and run wich give a direct link to the software that can be sold on top of it.

100 000 X 20$ = 2 Million.

God forbid that they actually sale more then 100 000.

Also If I where Linspire I would talk with the Balance people to have this model loaded with Linspire too :

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3342931&cat=3...


RE:Never using Linspire?
by Egon Spengler on Wed 5th Jan 2005 14:56 UTC

Linspire IS GNU/Linux but it is incredibly difficult to tell this from the desktop. Linspire is wedged into every nook and cranny, rebranding almost everything it lays its code upon. Linspire is not, repeat not, a slightly modified Debian. Its code comes from Corel Linux via Xandros, and is based on a snapshot of Sarge over a year old (at the current time). The modifications made to base libraries and KDE interface are so heavy as to prompt them to comment out the two debian archive sources in apt's sources.list. Install ANYTHING from debian archives that pulls a kde item, and you kiss Linspire goodbye. From interviews with Codeweavers folks, Lindows wanted to do things with the Wine code that was not acceptable to them so they walked. Rapprochment any time soon doesn't look likely.
Yes, I have installed it. No, I was not impressed.

RE:The McGyver of software!
by Egon Spengler on Wed 5th Jan 2005 15:20 UTC

I am not exactly sure what you intend by this statement, but if you are implying that MR is capable of making something from nothing, I heavily and pointedly disagree. Linspire seems to be quite good at rebranding, but something from nothing? No way. Linspire draws from the deep well of FSF.

Hmmm
by Storm on Wed 5th Jan 2005 16:02 UTC

Just to respond to Egons comments - I saw it as the other way around.

Im mainly a windows user who dabbles in Linux, and I saw it as Linux trying to be Windows badly, scratch the surface and your deep into Linux.

Like you however I have installed it. I was also not impressed.

Back to Mandrake I go.

re: Hmmm
by Al Hartman on Wed 5th Jan 2005 16:49 UTC

@Storm

Im mainly a windows user who dabbles in Linux, and I saw it as Linux trying to be Windows badly, scratch the surface and your deep into Linux.

Why do you think one of the purposeful design goals of Lindows is a bad thing?

It's MEANT to be an easy transition for Windows Users.

That's the whole point.

And please, if you like Mandrake better... Use that.

Nobody is forcing you to use Linspire.

Re: Price no concern,support is.
by Dark_Knight on Wed 5th Jan 2005 17:17 UTC

DarkTrancer,

Hardware Support:
This I agree with you as do most consumers for both private and enterprise. I brought this up in the past with a previous Linspire article on OSNews that they really need to improve their online hardware database. Something similar to what Novell offers for their customers using (SLES, NLD, SLP) http://cdb.suse.de/index.php?LANG=en_UK so that users can check their hardware prior to installing the software. Providing free downloadable ISO for LiveCD/DVD (demo runs from CD/DVD drive) of the distribution is another method for consumers to try the OS and included applications before they buy. It's also a good way to test current hardware.

Benefits:
Regarding your question about the benefits of moving from Windows to a Linux distribution such as Linspire. Well stability and security are two good reasons. Data on Linux distributions using ReiserFS or Ext2/3 tend to not fragment as is an issue with Windows NTFS and Fat32. There's less issue with spyware and viruses due to security policy methods put in place by Linux developers. Some Linux distributions package management systems such as Novell's YaST check for digital signatures of binary RPM packages (like .exe for Windows). The Linspire team can clarify if CNR does this for their Debian based distribution. Other reasons are lower cost due to licensing and maintenance support services offered by some Linux developers. LSB certification is now becoming more known as a method of developers meeting specific standards for their software. This way you as a consumer can be assured certain specifics are being met for developers that have passed and have LSB certification. Novell, Red Hat and Mandrakesoft are just some of the developers that have obtained LSB certification. There's other benefits such as not being locked in, etc but to long to list in one post.

Multimedia:
Regarding multimedia applications there are several commercial and open source developers that port to Linux. I use Amarok instead of running iTunes on Wine, Xine with Kaffeine frontend for my video playback (avi, wmv, qt, etc), Gimp/Cinepaint instead of Photoshop, etc.

As for Discreet's 3DSMax they have yet to port the application to Linux. That's not the Linux community's fault but the responsibility of the developer. Besides the two top animation packages used by post-production studios, etc is Alias Maya and Softimage XSI. Both of which are ported to Linux. See the post "Software for 3D/2D Artists, Designers, etc" here http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53452 for a better idea of what's available to freelancers, studios and art schools.

Cheers ;)

Hibernate support
by Sam Katz on Wed 5th Jan 2005 17:19 UTC

I am new to Linux, relatively. I took a class in Linux CLIs (bash), and have learned a lot through reading.

My question is that I almost bought the $799 laptop when it was offered. Kevin said you guys were still working on the Power Management for laptops.

You now say Lindows (through an updated kernel) can put the laptop to sleep. But can it hibernate a laptop?

My Windows machines never did that very well. There's always one stubborn application that thinks the machine is shutting down (like.. oh, Microsoft Word.)

--Sam

Question
by Kenny Martens on Wed 5th Jan 2005 17:20 UTC

I quite appreciate the fact that Kevin Carmony and Michael Robertson take the time to answer our questions and yes, even read the comments on places like OSNews.com. Thanks guys.

I haven't been following Linspire too closely in the past year or so, although I did purchase one of those lifetime memberships via ChoicePC a while back. And while I don't use Linspire yet (I'm a Mandrake guy myself), I do plan to try it again sometime in the next year.

Anyway, here's my question: Have you felt supported by the Free software community? Do you feel that the Free software community is committed to helping you succeed (or at least supportive in a passive sort of way), or has the community been mostly antagonistic? Of course there are always the trolls and rabid fans, but ignoring them, what has the community's response been?

As a sort of follow-up question, does the community's response affect your business plan in any appreciable way?

Question for MR
by Nathan O. on Wed 5th Jan 2005 18:05 UTC

How about laptop support in Linspire 5? I tried Lindows 4.5 on my laptop. I really liked what I saw, but wifi was a little clumsy (improved since improvements in kwifi?), booting took forever (I hear hardware detection was done by modprobing for everything, even after the first time), and I had to pay extra for suspend-to-disk functionality that was almost too slow to make it worthwhile in place of just rebooting.

I think the main things Linux needs to be good on laptops are better ACPI support (especially suspend-to-ram) and better wifi handling. If Linspire 5 makes these improvements, it'll be the first distro to rock my boat in years.

@Al
by Storm on Wed 5th Jan 2005 19:57 UTC

Sorry I didnt get my point accross - what I was trying to say it is nothing like windows thus bad.

Of course its only my opinion and I encourage everyone to try it, I like you though just wanted to share my opinon of the software itself thats all.





Questions to MR
by BBob on Wed 5th Jan 2005 20:52 UTC

How many of the cheap Wal-Mart pcs keep the Linspire installation and how many get overwritten by other OSs? You (presumably) know how many are sold and how many people use CNR, so the answer should be estimatable.

What kind of people use Linspire? It has been hailed as the "granny distro", but what is the reality?

What is the most common question/questions that your support people have to answer?

Novell is moving to 100% free desktop, which you already have done? Has there been any cooperation with them?

To: Michael Robertson and Linspire Inc.
by Dark_Knight on Wed 5th Jan 2005 21:18 UTC

Some advice for the Linspire company, particularly Michael Robertson. In my opinion Michael's sales team would of been better to approach big names such as HP, Dell, IBM, etc instead of going with Walmart that has a reputation of being cheap. Low cost sure but the Walmart name comes with the notion that your getting low end hardware with names consumers have not heard of. It makes no sense to offer a distribution that's targeted as being a Windows competitor then install it on a poor budget system. The desktops and laptop now offered are laughable. Come on Michael, learn from the examples shown by both Novell and Red Hat who've targeted major names for distribution of their software. Dong such will increase your market share and make Linspire more well known instead of something some would snicker at.

I do beleive Michael attending Linux conventions is a smart decision. This is actually good for all Linux developers to not only promote their products but also get feedback from consumers they're targeting their software at. Since I can't attend the convention he commented on in the article I'll look forward to reading more about his experience there hopefully posted on the Linspire site.

Lots of good comments and questions...
by Kevin Carmony on Wed 5th Jan 2005 21:56 UTC

As I have read through this thread, there certainly are many good comments and questions. I'll resist responding to them here (not an easy thing for me to resist btw ;-), so as to leave lots of interesting discussion for the follow-up interview.

Kevin Carmony
President, Linspire, Inc.

RE: Questions to MR
by Nathan O. on Wed 5th Jan 2005 23:23 UTC

I second the question as to what the most persistant tech support questions are!

And how many of those people are the stereotypical "granny" / "n00b", vs. how many are fairly technical people?

@ Anonyomous
by Vincent on Thu 6th Jan 2005 04:59 UTC

"I like laughing at those that are assuming that selling Gnu/Linux in a commercial capacity is easy , even really rich people in business in IT segment have and would fail , even more when its a Debian base ..."

What I find funny is that you feel that you can guide an OS distribution company through economics when you can't even guide yourself through correct spelling and punctuation as referenced here:

"Yes , but whe make the stuf, its our game and where winning. Linspire aint , it would be sad to see them disapear."

In case you were wondering its actually: "but *we* make the *stuff*, its our game and *we're* winning*;* Linspire *isn't*. It would be sad to see them *disappear*."

Now since we've established english probably isn't your strong suit I'll try to explain to you how, "The LSB and FSG you are already agreeing too anyway behing based of Debian ? " is not a question, does not need to end in a question mark, and if you took the time to read your dibble you'd see that its barely english.

First if one tries to actually translate the above into something that is coherent they'd end up with "You are already adhereing to the LSB and FSG by being based of off Debian." This isn't a question - its a follow up fact to your previous non-question that you used as merely a tool to interject your opinion on what you feel Linspire should be doing.

"Let me say this , you like to rewrite my question to fit the answer you whant to give"

Again I feel we are having a language problem, you obviously cannot understand non-internet grammar. If you'd actually read, you'd see I directly quoted your number 9 question and then instead of an answer gave back a question as a response. However the odd part of this is that despite willfully flamming me for supposedly misquoting your question in number 9 you proceeded to answer my question with, "Obviously M.R. dont control what Walmart does and I dont expect him to have any leverage with them either", meaning on some level you actually understood my point - progress!

"this question is no different and you obviously forget what the suposed purpose of this is "

You are right I don't understand the *supposed* purpose of your questions since like I pointed out before - you ask yes/no questions with a stem that consists merely of your personal opinion alone. If you actually cared to learn anything, which is usually the *supposed* purpose of asking a question you might try asking about why things are the way they are; rather than giving your own half-english/half-idiot commentary in which you further butcher the language by ending each statement with a question mark.

In response to your idea as to how Linspire should offer a payment plan:

"lets try this sugestion it cost nothing to find someone to offer a paiement plan on the walmart laptop , that can be offered from the linspire site"

How do you know that the contract with Walmart allows LinSpire to directly discount Walmarts hardware sales? What makes you feel that even if Linspire could offer a payment plan for its software (which if you've read their site there is a payment plan for CNR) that their contract with Walmart would allow for it to affect OEM licensed installations?

"but the question is simple in itself so I will take your little hand and try and I say try, to explain it to poor little you."

That is the problem. The question even when you do find the patience and metal coherence to phrase it correctly is not simple. Nor have you bothered to ask the right questions or to think your way through your ideas which you've then passed off here as "obvious solutions".

Money
by Ankit Malik on Thu 6th Jan 2005 10:32 UTC

What I hate is that whenever a company [like Linspire] tries to make money out of it, they dont like it!

I dont know why they dont like it, but I think

> everybody's got to earn one day
> you can't be selling $5-$10 [or free CDs] a CD all the time

And also according to the GPL, you are allowed to earn for your services. So Linspire, is

> tweaking the desktop to make it user friendly
> making Installation easy thru CNR

and so they are charging for it!

And it is not that they are not giving back to the community. They are sponsoring sites like KDE-Look!

Imagine, no themes, icons, wallpapers for you to download for your KDE Desktop!


And like every other normal company, they want publicity, so they say 'Ya! Our products are good'!

You don't expect them to say "Oops! Dont use our Products, they are pretty bad!"

And Linspire as I feel is aimed for the Linux newbie. For the rest there are distros like Mandrake, Fedora, SUSE, et al.

If you dont like Linspire, dont use it but atleast dont put a bad name to it!

They are just making it simpler for the Newbie. Let them do that, you use your distro XYZ! and keep installing from RPMs, DEbs, compiling from sources ;)

@Vincent (IP: ---.se.client2.attbi.com)
by Anonymous on Sat 8th Jan 2005 21:02 UTC


"correct spelling and punctuation "

Print the above words and go exchange them for your groceries ...

Only bankrupt people answer yes/no to the real hard questions I asked. ( and yes they are questions , not for Vincent , but he is a very special case).

I am sure that M.R. is going to do exactly the same as you did or whont even bother aproaching those questions.

the difference between you and I vincent :

I helped my Gnu/Linux company pull out of bankrupty.

Still waiting for your cv and reference ...