Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 06:03 UTC, submitted by David Gerber
Morphos The MorphOS front-end software, Ambient, is now free, full with source code. Download here.
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So..
by STRICQ on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 06:29 UTC

So, this is where goes for now? Cool.

Ports
by Mad Echidna on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:02 UTC

I want a Linux port on my desk on Monday.

Re: Ports
by @Mad Echidna on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:04 UTC

You most likely can't port this because it's software written for a *non* Posix Operating System.

Sure you can
by Bastian on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:08 UTC

It'd just take a lot of effort. In fact, I imagine it would be easier to just write a clone from scratch. =D

PPC?
by Tech^salvager on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:12 UTC

IS this only for teh PPC arch? Will it run on the mac mini?

This looks pretty cool
by Anonymous on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:16 UTC


Big thank you to the person/people responsible for making this Open Source.


Re: PPC?
by @Tech^salvager on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:17 UTC

This is just the 'Desktop' and it won't run on the mac mini without the other requirements such as the OS and other missing shared libraries itself. You either need to port MorphOS to mac mini or try to get AROS ported and work like mad on Ambient to have it run on it. Porting this 'Desktop' to mac mini (as in having it run as standard Desktop Environment under Linux or MacOSX or Windows) won't work because the architectures are too different. This is simply a piece of software specially written for one target system the Amiga or clones which offers the same API and philosophy. It's of no use on other Operating Systems and can't be 'simply' ported.

Purpose
by Celerate on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:49 UTC

This was probably intended more to encourage developers to contribute to Ambient rather than have it ported to other platforms.

RE: Purpose
by Anonymous on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:53 UTC

More like they wanted to keep any future profits out of a certain individual's hands...

Interesting
by Celerate on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 07:57 UTC

I followed a few links and came across this page: http://www.morphos.net/

Seems there is some sort of conflict between Genesi and the MorphOS developers.

thanks
by Tech^salvager on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 08:02 UTC

Thank you @Tech^salvager.
Thats helps Thanks again.

Re: Interesting
by gary_c on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 09:15 UTC

There has been a pay dispute between Genesi and core MorphOS developers. (Readers may recall a previous situation involving the OpenBSD port for Genesi's Pegasos. Statements concerning that have been collected on this page: http://www.phinixi.com/tiki-index.php?page=OpenBSD-Peg%20Wrap-u... ).

David Gerber put his message up as the morphos.net page, apparently in reaction to talks with Genesi. The details of whatever understanding or agreement between Genesi and the developers regarding work schedule and pay haven't been made public, so it's hard to know how to sort out the statements from each side.

Comments from other MorphOS developers can be found in this IRC log, recently posted: http://dcs.suomiscene.org/temp/18_01_05_when_morphos_finally_died.l... , or here: http://www.phinixi.com/tiki-index.php?page=IRC_Log--When_MOS_Died_3... (formatted, with relevant statement highlighted).

-- gary_c

Well
by Azalin on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 11:37 UTC

I was interested in the really nice OS Morphos as well, read most of the threads from all parties involved on how it went wrong. The situation is quite complex, the only thing I can say of it now is that I am glad as a possible future user that Ambient is not lost forever. AROS (the open source Amiga OS) seems to have gotten a TCP/IP stack now as well, I wonder if AROS and Ambient are hard to combine (as far as I understood, Morphos was based partly on Aros).

Yes
by 4pLaY on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 11:56 UTC

You are right MorphOS uses some of our code! some of it beeing our Intuition and locale! id say there is a big chance of seeing Ambient on AROS or at least parts of it.

RE: @david gerber
by Luke on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 13:25 UTC

A port to AOS 4.0 and 3.1 to 3.9 might be possible...

Luke

COOOOOL
by Hagge on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 17:31 UTC

Now if all Amiga companies could die and the IP + software would be free ;D

AROS
by Hagge on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 17:35 UTC

Btw, what will this mean for AROS? ;)

RE:AROS
by Anonymous on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 18:16 UTC

Since Morphos is probably similar to AmigaOS, I'd imagine that porting ambient to AROS wouldn't be all that hard.

Genesi
by tim hawkins - tjhawkins.com on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 19:08 UTC

I don't think Genesi is interested in developing MorphOS anymore. I'm pretty sure of it actually.

Re: AROS
by Don Cox on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 20:02 UTC

"Since Morphos is probably similar to AmigaOS, I'd imagine that porting ambient to AROS wouldn't be all that hard."

Ambient uses a GUI engine called MUI which runs on AmigaOS and MorphOS. AROS has a clone of MUI called Zune.

Porting would probably require a bit of work on Zune to improve compatability, but it should be relatively straightforward, if the code is well commented.

What about Zune?
by johnlein on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 20:57 UTC

Questions to any MorphOS and AROS people here. Is Zune still LGPL? Is BOOPSI needed when using Zune/MUI? How hard would it be to port Zuni back to X? Dose Ambient rely on any OS features that arenít covered by Zuni/MUI?

Here is what Genesi said:

- We will continue to support MorphOS application development. We will provide boards and the ODW to Developers that we see will use them best.

- We will continue to support MDC and MZ.

- We will continue to bundle 1.4.x with the ODW. The SuperBundle will be slimmed down and focused on just a few apps.

- We will support a high bandwidth download server for special distributions of new MorphOS applications.

Thank You !

Gunne

@johnlein
by Fraggles on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 22:00 UTC

> Does Ambient rely on any OS features that arenít covered by Zune/MUI?

Yes - to say it depends plenty on OS features as well as NEW MUI features which are in no way covered by ZUNE yet as it's unknown what new MUI does because it hasn't been released yet. This so I hope makes your other questions obsolete.

We'll I mean money-wise ... The only thing I've heard from them is Linux Linux Linux

To bad
by johnlein on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 22:52 UTC

To bad, the MUI bit kills my idea. I thought how cool it would be to get Ambient ported to DragonFlyBSD since there was some interest in getting some Amiga like stuff in there at one point (donít think that was official, so donít take my word for it).

RE: To bad
by tim hawkins - tjhawkins.com on Sat 22nd Jan 2005 23:54 UTC

AROS running on BSD kernel with the Ambient desktop?

RE: To bad
by Nicholas Blachford on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 01:36 UTC

To bad, the MUI bit kills my idea. I thought how cool it would be to get Ambient ported to DragonFlyBSD since there was some interest in getting some Amiga like stuff in there at one point (donít think that was official, so donít take my word for it).

There was a project to host the Haiku desktop on Linux / BSD at one point (possibly BeFree / Mockup). Aside from Ambient / AROS this, being based on BeOS is the closest you'll get to being Amiga like (BeOS was very Amiga-like in use), it'll also most likely a lot easier to port.

v Sounds like trouble
by Roberto J. Dohnert on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 04:45 UTC
Re: Nickolas Blachford
by johnlein on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 13:12 UTC

You are talking about Cosmoe. Billís got allot of work to go and little time and help so itís moving slow as molasses. Iím subscribed to the mailing list of that project ;)

But DragonFlyBSD and Amiga ideas are a different thing, Matthew has an Amiga background and some of the changes he is making are inspired by AmigaOS or at least very AmigaOS like.

Cool
by Eric White on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 14:15 UTC

AmigaOS always lacked a proper desktop. I read Ambient feature list and it is impressive. I wish it replaces my crashy Workbench 2.1 soon !

Re: Cool
by Don Cox on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 14:29 UTC

"AmigaOS always lacked a proper desktop."

It never had a desktop at all. AmigaOS doesn't use the "office" metaphor.

Workbench is a program for file management and for launching other programs. It could do with better internal multitasking, but otherwise it does its job as well as a windows-based file manager can. Personally, I prefer a 2-column file manager (like Total Commander for Windows), but its all a matter of taste.

What features do you think are missing?

I am puzzled that you should say WB 2.1 is "crashy". It is a while since I used that version (3.9 is the current 68k version), but I don't remember it ever crashing. Generally the Amiga 68k OS was very stable - the bugs were in the 3rd party programs.

Mixing metaphors
by Richard Drummond on Sun 23rd Jan 2005 21:58 UTC

> It never had a desktop at all. AmigaOS doesn't use the
> "office" metaphor.

Has any platform since the Xerox Star actually seriously used an "office" metaphor?

Desktops today employ a mish-mash of concepts, and the fact these concepts were based on metaphors has long since been forgotten.

I would say the Amiga has a desktop, and Workbench is the default desktop manager (there are others, e.g. Magellan, Scalos, etc.). But just look at some of the crazy usage of terminology on the Amiga desktop. Disks are 'Volumes'. Inside Volumes we have 'Drawers' and sometimes a 'Trashcan'!

(BTW, something else I always found amusing from other desktop platforms: why would you put 'Wallpaper' on your 'Desktop'? A table-cloth maybe. ;-)

It all goes to show that the use of metaphor in GUI design is over-emphasized. Tying your GUI down to real-world objects and actions is often just too limitting.

Cheers,
Rich

Re: metaphors
by Don Cox on Mon 24th Jan 2005 14:17 UTC

"Has any platform since the Xerox Star actually seriously used an "office" metaphor?

Desktops today employ a mish-mash of concepts, and the fact these concepts were based on metaphors has long since been forgotten."

I see "desktops", "folders", "files", and "workspaces" in various popular OSes. I also see Windows in use in every office in the land. Looks to me as though these OSes are aimed at office work.

RE: metaphors
by Don Cox on Mon 24th Jan 2005 14:22 UTC

"But just look at some of the crazy usage of terminology on the Amiga desktop. Disks are 'Volumes'. Inside Volumes we have 'Drawers' and sometimes a 'Trashcan'!"

You're right. Partitions should be called "planchests" or "cabinets".

Trashcans appear only on the Workbench screen, not inside drawers. I have never used the Trashcan on Amigas, maybe some people do. If I delete a file, it is to get space on a disk drive, and moving it to a trashcan doesn't help.