Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sun 6th Feb 2005 21:02 UTC, submitted by Nicolas Roard
OpenStep, GNUstep Following the NeXT tradition with mixed case, GNUSTEP is a livecd/distribution while GNUstep is an implementation of the OpenStep API. GNUSTEP is based on morphix, and use the GNUstep libraries and GNUstep-based applications to provides a NeXTSTEP-like environment that people can easily test and use. This new release comes 8 month since the precedent 0.5 release, and brings a lot of new GNUstep applications with it, as well as an upgrade of the GNUstep libraries and the development tools.
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GNUSTEP
by Cheapskate on Sun 6th Feb 2005 22:04 UTC

does it use WindowMaker for its default desktop :^P

caps make all the difference
by tim @ rack64.com on Sun 6th Feb 2005 22:13 UTC

Caps make all the difference ;-) Especially for security. I think the name is kinda, ya know, similiar.. obviously

@cheapscake
by Gurkan on Sun 6th Feb 2005 22:33 UTC

yes Window Maker is the default X window manager. it's not a desktop

RE: @cheapscake
by Anonymous on Sun 6th Feb 2005 22:43 UTC

yes Window Maker is the default X window manager. it's not a desktop

So there's no desktop in GNUSTEP?

No desktop?
by Larry Cow on Sun 6th Feb 2005 23:05 UTC

Of course there is! Right under your computer, if everything goes well.

I'll try it
by Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski on Sun 6th Feb 2005 23:19 UTC

After this flash demonstration, I'm dying to try it. :-)

RE: Desktop
by Michael Salivar on Sun 6th Feb 2005 23:48 UTC

I think it could be said that Windowmaker is a part of the GNU Step desktop. I might get tarred and feathered by GNU Step supporters for saying that if it's taboo, but I think it could be said.

demo
by xal on Sun 6th Feb 2005 23:56 UTC

Man i know gnustep is amazing tech. But this movie demonstration is a disgrace for 2005

Aqua theme
by QuantumG on Mon 7th Feb 2005 00:45 UTC

Would it kill them to use a window manager which didn't look so bad? A nice Aqua theme would be good.

Morphixinstaller bug
by Corey on Mon 7th Feb 2005 01:12 UTC

Too bad the installer doesn't work.

Aqua themes
by Greg Casamento on Mon 7th Feb 2005 01:14 UTC

Someone is working on this.

GNUstep is themeable. Camaelon 2 is a theming engine which is going to be available soon for GNUstep. Here's a sampling of what it can do:

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme41.png

Also see...

http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme44.png

What was in the demo is just the default. It can be set to whatever you like using the theming engine.

Later, GJC
GNUstep Gorm Maintainer

Left-handed?
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Feb 2005 01:36 UTC

Can the window manager be setup for the left-hand, ie, close button on the left? If so, I will try this for sure once the theming engine is released.

What they hey
by Mike on Mon 7th Feb 2005 01:42 UTC

What the hey - downloading as I type!

http://www.advogato.org/article/821.html
Nothing like putting down the competition in an attempt to boost one's project. Good to see the community spirit being fostered by GNUstep devels.

Maybe GNUstep is _all that_. Maybe it will give KDE/GNOME/et al some real competition. But I will refuse to even visit the GNUstep web page if that is how GNUstep wants to represent itself.

re: Wakka
by Nicolas Roard on Mon 7th Feb 2005 05:40 UTC

I agree. No need for comments like that, but well, it's his opinion. But it's not "gnustep devels", it's one person, and it's certainly not "how GNUstep wants to represent itself". You should never try to generalize one person's act to a community if you don't know the community, but hey, that's just my opinion.

GNUStep and Macos X
by amiroff on Mon 7th Feb 2005 07:02 UTC

Please forgive my newbiness, but everytime I hear about GNUStep there is also a hype about MacosX. What do these projects have in common? At least they don't look and behave the same don't they ? So what's the relation?

Thanks

Re: GNUStep and Macos X
by Anton Klotz on Mon 7th Feb 2005 07:31 UTC

Cocoa environment which is a part of MacOSX is further development of OpenStep (this is a standart, which GNUStep implements), the API is very similiar, the prefered language ObjC is the same. The reason for this is, that OpenStep was developed the the company named Next, the founder of this company was Steve Jobs and when he rejoined Apple, he just brought this environment with him (he got lots of $$ for it). GNUStep is the Open Sourced version of OpenStep, the programs are interchangable (with little porting effort).

Hope that clarifies the things a bit.

Anton

@wakka
by Gurkan on Mon 7th Feb 2005 07:33 UTC

err sorry. It's just all the excitement, and at the same time the black humour, ironic, and being sad state i'm in. i'm not a good (objective writer), so that article was put together from comments at slashdot about gnustep earlier (those rated 5,funny)

Choice of API and Language
by Kenneth Zhang on Mon 7th Feb 2005 09:04 UTC

Would be it a bit too late for GNUstep and Objective C to catch up with the two most popular programming languages and API, Java and CSharp? I'm sure most software companies wanted to write softwares that is cross platforms so they wouldn't be stuck with one particular platform in the future.

I have a question. What would be the best os kernel to use if you wanted to create the next Desktop OS using GNUstep?

For the next Desktop OS, this OS should have a pluginable API layer that allows you to easily integrate other run-time engines such asthe Java platform and Mono (.NET) platform. What's your thoughts on this idea?

-Kenneth

Re: Flash Presentation
by Johnson on Mon 7th Feb 2005 10:05 UTC

Flash presentation? What flash presentation, I didn't find any link. Can anyone post the URL please? thx

Re: Flash Presentation
by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on Mon 7th Feb 2005 10:44 UTC
Re: Re: Flash Presentation
by Johnson on Mon 7th Feb 2005 11:35 UTC

Thank you ;)

GNUstep user interface
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Feb 2005 12:08 UTC

The Gorm demonstration is cool, but the general user interface of GNUstep applications may take some time getting used to. I mean, the drag-and-drop ability is nice and all but I find those little menus that stay on top of applications simply annoying.

I like to open one application per workspace and maximize it to cover the whole workspace. WindowMaker is good at that -- I get big application windows without panels or menus stealing space from applications. Then I can use keybindings to change workspaces and call menus when needed.

But those insistent little menus in GNUstep applications seem to kind of spoil all that. In general, I'm not a big fan of navigating through complex menu structures. But this, of course, is only my opinion. And maybe there are keybindings to hide and call those little menus that I have yet to learn. ;-)

C/C++ bindings
by Anil Wang on Mon 7th Feb 2005 13:01 UTC

Has anyone tried to come up with a general C/C++ bindings for the Objective C calling system? For instance, to do something like:<blockquote>
id newObj = [numObj plus 42];
id newObj2 = [numObj times newObj];</blockquote>
(forgive my poor knowledge of Objective C, but it should be close enough to prove the point)

One could write the following in C/C++:<blockquote>
id newObj = objcall(numObj, "plus %d", 42);
id newObj2 = obcall(numObj, "times %i", newObj);</blockquote>

or in the case of C++, one could have the additional opton of writing:
<blockquote>
id newObj = numObj.msg("plus", 42).send();
id newObj2 = numObj.msg("times", newObj).send();
</blockquote>



Re: GNUstep user interface
by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on Mon 7th Feb 2005 13:20 UTC

When I first tried the menu in Window Maker I hated it, because I hadn't used GNUstep at that point. But now it makes more sense, because GNUstep and Window Maker act much alike. Plus you can use the cursor keys and letters to pinpoint the program/function you want.

There is a hack to make the menu go to the top of the screen, mac-style, called "wildmenus". I haven't tried it though.

One key thing that all incarnations of the NextSTEP environment get right is that dialogs are usually non-blocking and they can stay on screen if you want and you can continue working in the main window, click a font size in a font dialog and continue working again without having to resort to oversized toolbars or complex, blocking font dialogs with tabs and what have you.

If you make the application inactive, they disappear, which is very nice. Such two levels of window management (main windows and floating dialogs) is missing in most other environments. The fact that menus float in much the same way as dialogs and can be separated from their parent in the menu tree allows you to customize the menu layout somewhat.

Gnome does this too with tear-off menus, but with that key element that they don't disappear and reappear on application activation/deactivation.

Take The Gimp: It has a lot of dialogs and allows tearoff menus in the NextSTEP style, but they don't go away when Gimp is inactive. It really clutters up the screen very quickly.

NextSTEP doesn't encourage window maximization although it's possible. I think that it's designed that way so you have easy access to things you can drag'n'drop and can have floating menus and dialogs where nothing blocks.

RE: Release of the GNUSTEP LiveCD version 0.9.4
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Feb 2005 17:35 UTC

I'm sorry, this looks like it might be interesting 20 years ago.
But it's 2005 now in case they slept through the last 20 years.
It looks like pre-Windows 3.1 and the apps look featureless.
Just who do they suppose will want this? Someone living in a hut on an island in the middle of the Pacific ocean?

Re: RE: Release of the GNUSTEP LiveCD version 0.9.4
by Manuel Guesdon on Mon 7th Feb 2005 17:50 UTC


I'm sorry, this looks like it might be interesting 20 years ago.
But it's 2005 now in case they slept through the last 20 years.


Just take a look at APIs, libraries (core, gdl2, gsweb, etc.),... think a little and come back after that.
GNUstep is at least at the same level than C++/MFC, Java/Java Toolkits,...

@anonymous
by Tuishimi on Mon 7th Feb 2005 18:25 UTC

There are people still "out there" using their NeXT cubes and workstations... running the original NEXTSTEP OS. It was a great operating system/gui environment that made an honest attempt at doing things "differently" for the sake of efficiency and interoperability. I still find the gui attractive. I still find BeOS gui attractive too.

I say go GNUstep!

"Everything is so ... square and gray"...
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Feb 2005 19:43 UTC

... or so the live-CD web page tells us. Looking at the screenshots of GNUstep applications confirms that this is true. Some of the screenshots look like 4-color apps for the Amiga 500.

Guys, graphics cards and GUI applications have moved on since 1994.

I realise how big an effort has gone into coding; but the project would benefit from a little more input from artists and graphic designers.

When GNUstep reaches 1.0, a million coders will examine it for 30 seconds. If it is still square and gray, they will stop reading, and they will never discover the treasures that lie within.

RE: Aqua themes
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Feb 2005 19:48 UTC

Wow, those actually look really nice. I used to like the Next/Open Step look of applications and the desktop as well. I kinda grew out of it though, but with themes like those I might change my mind. Makes things more pleasing to the eye. Makes it look a bit more modern.

One thing I find interesting is that that GNUstep uses WindowMaker as the window manager, yet WindowMaker is not a GNUStep application.

v RE: Everything is so ... square and gray"
by adapt on Mon 7th Feb 2005 21:42 UTC
RE: Aqua themes
by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on Mon 7th Feb 2005 21:53 UTC

One thing I find interesting is that that GNUstep uses WindowMaker as the window manager, yet WindowMaker is not a GNUStep application.

There is work being done on a similar window manager called BackBone, specifically for GNUstep:

http://www.nongnu.org/backbone/

I think the intent is to make it a fullblown desktop.

adapt is to harsh
by Visible on Mon 7th Feb 2005 21:55 UTC

The last post is too harsh. The previous poster was not a moron. He may have over judged the importance of the look in your opinion or mine, but he has a good point about first impressions. They only take a second or two.

impressions?
by Riccardo on Mon 7th Feb 2005 23:57 UTC

Exactly. Impressions count.
And this is why i like the polished, clean, professional look of w windowmaker+gnustep environment.
No useless fuss. No gnome or KDE. No bloat. No geek-designed UI features.
That is why I love it.
On the other hand you can customize not only the fonts, the colors and the look of the buttons, but also the menus, the icons and many more things. So if you want you can do it.
I like it the way it is. It is not "just another windows clone". In fact Microsoft copied a lot of the "look" of the original 95/NT4 widget looks from NeXT.

Of course it is not perfect, Icons can be better polished, windowmaker cna be better integrated, bugs can be squashed and more applications can be written.
I hope in a "real" alternative. Just another kde/gnome/windows clone with geeky features and lots of bells&whistles wasting cpu, memory and desktop space would mean nothing new. If you want that, go, there are other providing this.
And mixing it all-together grabbing the dock from one, the UI paradigm from the other, the task bar from another one.. won't get you a better DE, it will give you a mess.

You can't innovate by copying others. You cannot be different "by having the same stuff of this and that".

Live CD?
by MIke on Tue 8th Feb 2005 01:15 UTC

Anyone else experiencing problems booting from this CD? I burned it and placed it into the driver, but when I rebooted, I automatically went to my normal GRUB menu. Weird.

Booting from CD
by Visible on Tue 8th Feb 2005 07:17 UTC

Last release I needed to use Smart Boot Manager to boot this live cd as a bug in my bios prevented me from starting it directly. Last release of this Live CD is the only one that I have had trouble booting with and I have a large collection of them between me and my friends. I am about to try this release out, so I will give you an update as to whether it has same trouble once I have downloaded it.

RE: Live CD?
by Mike on Tue 8th Feb 2005 12:58 UTC

Never mind - I tried it on another PC and it booted, but oh my god is that an awful interface! Sorry if this offends anyone but that was the least enjoyable UI experience I've had for a long time.

Impressed
by Ecmel Ercan on Thu 10th Feb 2005 14:34 UTC

I admit, I am impressed. Everything is snappy and fast, so bad Gnome is not based on GNUstep. Future of open source desktop should be based on this technology.

Internet browser
by Inaki on Fri 11th Feb 2005 10:12 UTC

I have not downloaded it yet. I know it has a mail program, but does the Live CD contain any internet browser?