posted by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 29th Jul 2007 05:51
Conversations In this thread:

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=18315

Modding down was totally misused as a "weapon" to belittle opinions different than those of the majority.
User b00gie was particularly hit by this kind of behavior. I was modded down as well in my only post. I believe mine was a perfectly legit opinion: I have never believed that Portage is such a great package manager.
Now you won't notice much of a disaster because I tried to mod everybody back up, but you can give each post only one vote, and of course I couldn't vote for myself.
Reasons to mod a post down:
"Yes, this comment includes personal attacks/offensive language
Yes, this comment is off-topic
Yes, this comment is spam or includes advertisements"

None of the above was applicable.

"Yes, I disagree with this user/opinion"

is NOT a good and accepted reason. Thus most people who mod down not only are cowards, but liars as well.

Bunch of losers!
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Comments:
Well...
by Adam S on Sun 29th Jul 2007 18:29 UTC
Adam S
Member since:
2005-04-01

If you choose the "Yes, I disagree with this user/opinion" it will NOT mod down the comment, but rather, warn you that disagreement is not a valid reason.

For a LONG time, I've wanted to rewrite the moderation system to have three categories: agree, disagree, or report. Then it would autohide reported comments past a threshold and people would see the agree and disagree count.

However, implementing this will be a BITCH, because it will affect everyone's trust, every other mod down will need to be discarded or replaced entirely... the entire system for all 300,000+ comments will need to be compensated. I just don't know how to do that yet.

I also want to remove the upper and lower score. No need.

Eventually, these changes will be implemented in some form or another.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Well...
by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 29th Jul 2007 19:32 in reply to "Well..."
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I am glad you are fully aware of the problem and that you want to do something about it.
How difficult would be just disabling the modding down option? (of course if you agree)
It seems to me that in vast majority of cases it gets abused.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by stestagg on Sun 29th Jul 2007 19:36 in reply to "RE: Well..."
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Actually, I find that all the hidden comments that I look at add nothing to the discussion, either they are abusive, off topic, or just stupid.

Then again, I never read that Gentoo thread.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Well...
by stestagg on Sun 29th Jul 2007 19:34 in reply to "Well..."
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Can't you just convert all -3(or other) comments to be reported, and keep the ezisting score as the new score? This way, old comments would stay the same, and the new ones would be better.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by Adam S on Sun 29th Jul 2007 20:18 in reply to "RE: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

I can't do it in both v3 AND v4, so it will have to be AFTER the staff commits to v4. I do not know when - if at all - that will ever happen.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Well...
by DittoBox on Mon 30th Jul 2007 01:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Well..."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

If it's OK to "kissandtell" what does the staff not like about v4? I'm rather liking it...although the subscriber view isn't much different from Vanilla V4 like V3 Subscriber is from V3 Vanilla (slimmer).

You've done a lot of great work so far.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well...
by Adam S on Mon 30th Jul 2007 14:28 in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

If it's OK to "kissandtell" what does the staff not like about v4? I'm rather liking it...although the subscriber view isn't much different from Vanilla V4 like V3 Subscriber is from V3 Vanilla (slimmer).

I do not know if there's something in particular that people don't like as much as we've wanted to have the site re-skinned by a professional designer and that's not happened as quickly as we'd have hoped. Also, if it means a lot of changing of the code generated by the PHP backend, that's going to take time.

You've done a lot of great work so far.

I appreciate that.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Well...
by RandomGuy on Sun 29th Jul 2007 23:12 in reply to "Well..."
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

Removing score limits is a great idea. It would remove most of the "You are so right, wish I could mod you up!"-comments.
Heck, even I write something similar from time to time when I can't show how much I agree with the post by modding it up.

Another interesting idea (I think someone else came up with it) would be to say mod this post to <insert number>. When the post is below that number, it should be modded up (by 1) and the number of votes should be reduced by one. If the post then gets voted up to a higher number, you get your comment vote back.

This would probably reduce the number of comments on highly controversial topics that oscillate between -5 and +5.
Sometimes I see a comment that has been modded down and I can't see why. So I mod it up, only to find out the next second that some other guys had the same idea.
This means that sometimes a completely dull comment gets +5.

But probably this would be far too complicated to implement and eat lots of precious CPU, as well.

If you really want to change the comment system I think the only reasonable way to do this would be to save everybody's number of comments and average comment score at the time of transition and compute the new comment score somewhat like this:

score=(average_score(new_posts)*#new_posts +old_average*#old_posts)/#all_posts)

I'm aware that the real solution would be hell of a lot more complex but it should probably be along those lines to make sure that trust and scores don't jump up or down.

This way people won't get all mad because their comment scores dropped without any obvious reason. But I don't know your code so I have no idea just how difficult this is going to be.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by stestagg on Mon 30th Jul 2007 00:04 in reply to "RE: Well..."
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

As far as the modding-up comments just to see them goes, this isn't neccesary. In v4, just click on the down arrow on hidden comments to display them anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by Adam S on Mon 30th Jul 2007 14:29 in reply to "RE: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Effective immediately, score limits are gone for v3 and v4. Enjoy.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Well...
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 30th Jul 2007 08:28 in reply to "Well..."
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

On a side note: why can't we still mod up staff comments? (*not* down, I would never want that)
It would give users some sense of empowerment and maybe some extra motivation to staff.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by Adam S on Mon 30th Jul 2007 11:16 in reply to "RE: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Anyone can mod up or down any staff comment once their trust reaches a certain level.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Well...
by stestagg on Mon 30th Jul 2007 11:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Well..."
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

On a related note, trusted users' comments start with a +2 score. Why don't the staff comments?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well...
by Adam S on Mon 30th Jul 2007 11:36 in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Because I'm lazy? ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Well...
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 30th Jul 2007 12:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Well..."
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Anyone can mod up or down any staff comment once their trust reaches a certain level.


So my trust level must be pretty low :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well...
by Adam S on Mon 30th Jul 2007 12:17 in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Actually, it's very high and you SHOULD be able to mod admins - but there is no moderation in conversations yet. Can you mod admin comments in the regular stories?

Reply Score: 1