posted by Anonymous Penguin on Tue 19th Feb 2008 02:22
Conversations And why it can't be under the current circumstances.
Until idiots can mod your posts down simply because they disagree, there will always be a sense of bitterness and revenge.
Such feelings are the opposite of a sense of community.
My own post count could be a lot higher, but every time somebody mods me down without a good reason, my blood boils. 3 out of my last 5 comments have been modded down, and I ask everybody with a minimum of common sense where did I break the forum rules.
Normally I don't use the minus button, but I do when I get unfairly modded down myself.
As to modding up I don't care, people can be modded up to the sky.
It is the unfairness of being modded down against the rules that drives me crazy. After so many discussions, I still can't understand why we can't get rid of modding down.
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Comments:
What's the complaint?
by PlatformAgnostic on Tue 19th Feb 2008 06:47 UTC
PlatformAgnostic
Member since:
2006-01-02

I don't know, man... most of your recent posts have been modded up (assuming they start at 2), and the few that have been modded down obviously seem to step on the toes of some constituencies, like the SuSE (SUSE/Suse) people or the Solaris folks.

Modding down is an important function for the few times when people say things that are totally abhorrent (e.g. "Mac users smell like wet dogs") or make offensive drive-by remarks just to get some people worked up without factual basis (e.g. "Plan9 was written by baboons. Glad I don't have to put up with that crap as an Amiga user!").

If you really wanted to have a more personal community, you'd have to stop being an Anonymous Penguin and I'd have to start going by something more approximating my real name. You can't build a community without reputation, and it's hard to build reputation without real names. Actually, this is a topic I'm pretty interested in: de-anonymizing the Internet at large, or at least having non-anonymous zones. What do you think about that?

Reply Score: 2

RE: What's the complaint?
by Anonymous Penguin on Tue 19th Feb 2008 12:21 in reply to "What's the complaint?"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"the few that have been modded down obviously seem to step on the toes of some constituencies, like the SuSE (SUSE/Suse) people or the Solaris folks."

But openSUSE is my favorite distro, thus it is quite odd I can't even say how I feel about KDE4.
Are only cheerleaders welcome?

"Modding down is an important function for the few times when people say things that are totally abhorrent (e.g. "Mac users smell like wet dogs") or make offensive drive-by remarks just to get some people worked up without factual basis (e.g. "Plan9 was written by baboons. Glad I don't have to put up with that crap as an Amiga user!")"

I agree, but I have always complained about *abuse*, which is extremely common now.

"If you really wanted to have a more personal community, you'd have to stop being an Anonymous Penguin and I'd have to start going by something more approximating my real name. You can't build a community without reputation, and it's hard to build reputation without real names. Actually, this is a topic I'm pretty interested in: de-anonymizing the Internet at large, or at least having non-anonymous zones. What do you think about that?"

I have always believed that "Anonymous Penguin" was just a nick like any other. I don't believe a lot of people use their real name.
I could change it, if it really annoys people, but I don't know how to do it...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What's the complaint?
by bousozoku on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:03 in reply to "RE: What's the complaint?"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23


...
Are only cheerleaders welcome?
...


I believe that a lot of people here feel that you have to be into something totally and agree with everything. If you don't, you lose points and people let you know that. The new post-or-vote method is changing that somewhat, but there seem to be a lot of vindictive people with tunnelvision.

I always try to give points to the first person who says something that has merit and isn't totally obvious or a repeat of the article and take away points from those who attack for no good reason.

Fanaticism doesn't help anyone.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"I believe that a lot of people here feel that you have to be into something totally and agree with everything. If you don't, you lose points and people let you know that. The new post-or-vote method is changing that somewhat, but there seem to be a lot of vindictive people with tunnelvision"

Very true. The trouble with that approach is that it risks to become a mere exchange of pats on the back.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What's the complaint?
by vikramsharma on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:48 in reply to "RE: What's the complaint?"
vikramsharma Member since:
2005-07-06

I think I have learnt a lot more from people who have opinions completely opposed to mine, one can only learn from people with a different viewpoint with respect to him/her. As for modding down power corrupts I guess, people do get personal about opinion that the whole reason of having an opinion, opinion is a projection of ones ego, imho.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"As for modding down power corrupts I guess,"

Exactly! Well said. People are given this power of modding you up or down and they abuse it. That is why, in an ideal world, power should be given only to those who truly deserve it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What's the complaint?
by Morgan on Thu 21st Feb 2008 22:24 in reply to "RE: What's the complaint?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Regarding using a real name vs. a nickname, my first name is Morgan and it's what I go by in the real world. I happen to be very satisfied with that name and I got lucky when OSNews started the user accounts to be early enough to snag it (sorry to any other prospective Morgans out there).

Granted, I'm not using my full name so it's still somewhat anonymous; if I had used, for example, my ham radio callsign (visible in my email address btw) it would take just a quick trip to a certain website to discover my full name and address. Bottom line, while using your full real name in an internet forum might give you a measure of respect and credibility, it's minimal compared to the sense of freedom from being the target of loons and goons who might just obsess over your latest anti-OS-of-the-day diatribe and wish you harm. I'm obviously not afraid of that myself, it's simply a matter of choice.

Reply Score: 2

Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I have 3 first names myself, that makes things a bit more difficult for me ;)
Besides, having many interests, sometimes not related at all to one another, I prefer to have more than one identity.

Reply Score: 2

community
by google_ninja on Tue 19th Feb 2008 22:48 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

this site is full of people with huge, differing loyalties. The best way to get modded up or down is to totally praise windows, mac, or linux, as those pro will vote you up, and those against you will vote you down. The more over the top you get with the praise, the more that voting base will respond. The comment scores basically come down to who is the best writer, and where they post. If you post something anti-linux is a story about linux, you will get modded down. if you post something anti-windows in a story about linux, you will get modded up.

That being said, there are quite a few people on here that really offer insightful views, but they are in the minority. For example, since my .net conversion I have become very pro-microsoft, but even so, I still enjoy reading stuff by butters or sbergman. Even though I don't like their stuff at times, mollyc and kaiwai are another two of my favorites, and platformagnostic and sreilly tend to offer insightful views, while genuinely trying to keep their biases under control.

So I would disagree, the score next to your name doesn't mean much, but for every cyclops or molyneuf there are half a dozen people who don't see the comments section as a battleground.

Reply Score: 2

RE: community
by Anonymous Penguin on Wed 20th Feb 2008 12:03 in reply to "community"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"That being said, there are quite a few people on here that really offer insightful views, but they are in the minority."

They are in the minority because that kind of behaviour hasn't been rewarded till now, as you explain well in the rest of your post.
If you go for a carrot and stick approach, almost everybody, even some of the best, will try to avoid the stick and get the carrot, while not caring for a real contribution to the discussion.

Reply Score: 2

RE: community
by SReilly on Wed 20th Feb 2008 19:03 in reply to "community"
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

I agree almost whole heartedly. ;-)

When I first registered here on OSNews (I lurked for years), I used to go for the high scoring comments but quickly found it incredibly shallow. Not only was I unable to stimulate any meaningful conversations, a major no-no in my book, but I also found it way to easy to get +5 scores. Basically, I was totally missing the point.

These days I take a lot more time formulating my comments to not only reflect my overall IT bias, but also those things that I have learned from the many conversations I have either read or been involved in. Since I started doing this, I take much more pride in my score.

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say we don't have a community here on OSNews. I would agree that it's certainly not akin to the Linux or BSD communities, but I for one enjoy hearing and discussing the opinions of my, for lack of a better word, 'adversaries'. Hell, even the trolls often make my day, as I believe you have pointed out in the past ;-).

Then again, how could OSNews have anything like the tight nit community that the free *nixs enjoy? Those communities are built, run and contributed to by like minded people. The beauty of OSNews is that it actually transcends those boundaries.

All in all, I personally believe that OSNews offers a great forum for OS related discussion and I have yet to find anywhere with even as remotely a diverse collection of opinions and stand points. Sure, we get modded down for some pretty crap reasons at times but all in all, I find there is quite a lot of respect offered (and given), at least from those people I actually care about.

P.S. Thanks for the ego boost, you ain't doing baddly yourself :-)

Reply Score: 2

My reason...
by Flatland_Spider on Wed 20th Feb 2008 15:05 UTC
Flatland_Spider
Member since:
2006-09-01

I've always thought the reason that OSNews doesn't have a community, besides the one-dimensional OS partisan stereotypes, is because we can't let our hair down.

The comments are great, but they aren't the place for social interaction. They're the battle ground.

A forum, or something like that, would be a better place for social interaction. OSnews used to have a forum, but that got killed at some point. I think Conversations is supposed to replace that, but it really hasn't been utilized for that. Conversations is cool, but I wouldn't say it replaces a proper forum.

Reply Score: 2

RE: My reason...
by Soulbender on Wed 20th Feb 2008 17:17 in reply to "My reason..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

is because we can't let our hair down.


That's because I shaved my head.

A forum, or something like that, would be a better place for social interaction.


Eh, I dunno. Most forums seem to suffer from the same flamefests and morons osnews does. The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: My reason...
by Flatland_Spider on Wed 20th Feb 2008 20:43 in reply to "RE: My reason..."
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

That's because I shaved my head.


That would make that pretty hard to do. ;)


Eh, I dunno. Most forums seem to suffer from the same flamefests and morons osnews does. The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people.


Yeah, people are asshats in general.

I've been to some really good ones that are moderated very well. The QuestionableContent.net forums is a place where the signal to noise ratio is pretty good.

There just isn't a place to have random silly discussions here. We never get to know each other outside of our OS preferences. My point is, OSnews doesn't have a community because we are all hunkered down in our camps throwing stones at one another. We never get to know each other off-topic.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: My reason...
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 24th Feb 2008 16:56 in reply to "RE[2]: My reason..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

There just isn't a place to have random silly discussions here. We never get to know each other outside of our OS preferences. My point is, OSnews doesn't have a community because we are all hunkered down in our camps throwing stones at one another. We never get to know each other off-topic.


The thing is... Do we really want to? You see, it would lead to in-crowd feelings and a very tight and small community that would, which would spread its arms into the normal comments' sections, with inside jokes and the likes.

OSNews needs to be open for everyone, and creating a tight community will only lead to a barrier-to-entry for prospective newcomers. Go to any real forum, and if you don't see this barrier to entry, you've been there for too long.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: My reason...
by Anonymous Penguin on Thu 21st Feb 2008 02:19 in reply to "RE: My reason..."
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"Eh, I dunno. Most forums seem to suffer from the same flamefests and morons osnews does. The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people."

I don't know if that kind of forums are the majority.
The ones where I post seem to be self-adjusting: trolls and morons are rejected by the community, maybe eventually banned.
OT: I haven't been terribly lucky myself. 3 forums where I had invested quite a bit of my time, either went down the drain (linuxiso.org, Libranet) or underwent such changes that you had to start from zero (ExtremeTech).
After such experiences I have been less willing to invest as much of my time as I used to do.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: My reason...
by bousozoku on Fri 22nd Feb 2008 02:53 in reply to "RE[2]: My reason..."
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

"Eh, I dunno. Most forums seem to suffer from the same flamefests and morons osnews does. The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people."

I don't know if that kind of forums are the majority.
The ones where I post seem to be self-adjusting: trolls and morons are rejected by the community, maybe eventually banned.
OT: I haven't been terribly lucky myself. 3 forums where I had invested quite a bit of my time, either went down the drain (linuxiso.org, Libranet) or underwent such changes that you had to start from zero (ExtremeTech).
After such experiences I have been less willing to invest as much of my time as I used to do.


Having been a moderator at some large computer-oriented forums, I had to quickly act on trolls and people who just couldn't follow the rules.

It's unfortunate that it's so tough to ignore these kinds of people here, but maybe the Report button will help a great deal...if people report them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: My reason...
by Coxy on Fri 22nd Feb 2008 11:38 in reply to "RE: My reason..."
Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01

'The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people.'

I think it's more that it allows people with little or no importance in the real world (assuming capitalist views of importance (which is most people)) to feel important by claiming to have vast and superior knowledge on anal subjects that have no importance to most people in the real world (eg: Linux, Windows, programming, icon designing etc.). People then feel the need to defend there passions and demonstrate how superior they are (and at the same time how childish) by resorting to insult hurling, character assassination and lying about opposing opinions/views

Reply Score: 2

What's the point of modding?
by Michael on Thu 21st Feb 2008 17:33 UTC
Michael
Member since:
2005-07-01

Moderation as a popularity contest is just a short-cut for posting "I agree" or "I disagree". While having a quick way of saying "I agree" is very useful, I believe it is damaging to let people just click a button to indicate that they disagree with a comment, without explaining why.

Now that we have the report button, let's lose down-modding.

Reply Score: 2

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

if we lose down modding, whats the point of up modding? If I say "Bill Gates drowns kittens for fun", that will get modded up by certain people, even though it isn't exactly insightful, interesting, or informative. Fortunately, in most cases there are more people willing to vote it down so that the few who will vote it up will get shouted down.

Reply Score: 2