posted by Anonymous Penguin on Sat 12th Jul 2008 14:17
Conversations I don't know how many "conversations" I have started about this topic.
Today I want to discuss it once again. We were told that it was going to change dramatically. But all that changed is when we mod somebody down we are reminded that it only means "I disagree".
For any practical purpose, nothing relevant has changed. Modded down posts "disappear" (even if I have a score threshold of -20).
People with "controversial" opinions are modded down to hell...
The latest, most painful experience was Eugenia, a nice way to tell her "thanks for all the work you have done for us".
As to myself, even if I have been modded up quite a bit of late, I have also been modded down unreasonably, IMO.
Until people won't be able to freely express their opinion, this place will never be or feel like a real community. I mean, I have posted 839 times in 3 years. That is absolutely nothing. If this place felt like a community, my post count would be in the thousands.
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Comments:
Karma whoring
by google_ninja on Sat 12th Jul 2008 14:32 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

IMO we should go all the way back to anonymous comments and a mod point cap. The whole purpose of moderation is to have the cream rise to the top, not to create a scorecard for a stupid little game.

IMO the karma whoring has gone through the roof ever since the changes, and the quality of alot of the comments has gone down ever since the removal of anonymous posting.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Karma whoring
by Anonymous Penguin on Sat 12th Jul 2008 15:07 in reply to "Karma whoring"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Not sure about anonymous posting (it has also its cons), but getting rid altogether of peer moderation, once and forever, would totally change the spirit of this site, IMO.
Nominate a few trusted users who do the "proper" moderation, the same which should be done when you report abuse. Also, severely punish those who click on "report" without a good reason.

Reply Score: 2

Adam's lazy :)
by Alex Forster on Sat 12th Jul 2008 19:45 UTC
Alex Forster
Member since:
2005-08-12

As far as I know, Adam, the guy that codes OSNews, does already have a new moderation system in the works. The added "I disagree" message boxes were not that new system. I assume it's been put off by Adam, seeing how long it's been since the announcement was made, but code does exist and I'm pretty sure that we'll see a revamped moderation system eventually.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Adam's lazy :)
by Adam S on Mon 14th Jul 2008 14:20 in reply to "Adam's lazy :)"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

You're actually somewhat right. I've been on the new mod system for about 2 months now. It WILL come soon. We will soon recruit some testers to help us refine it.

The problem is that the CSS works perfectly in Opera and differently in IE and FF2. I *hate* writing CSS for IE6 and IE7 -- even Firefox looks a little off.

Rest assured, at some point in the near future, we'll roll it out. But for now, it's not really a priority, since we just rewrote our entire admin site.

In the meantime, here's a sneak peak:

http://osnews.com/files/new_mod_sys.jpg

(the blurred options are admin-only options)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Adam's lazy :)
by Kroc on Mon 14th Jul 2008 15:22 in reply to "RE: Adam's lazy :)"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Darn, forgot about this, chase me up about the CSS. It's doable.

Reply Score: 2

Agreement
by rhyder on Sat 12th Jul 2008 20:18 UTC
rhyder
Member since:
2005-09-28

I wonder if the word "score" should be replaced with "agreement"?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Agreement
by Anonymous Penguin on Sat 12th Jul 2008 20:34 in reply to "Agreement"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

That would be better than nothing, I suppose, but still not the definitive solution.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Sun 13th Jul 2008 16:14 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Funny, my post count is in the thousands and I express myself perfectly freely.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by evangs on Sun 13th Jul 2008 20:13 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

You're just not controversial enough ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 01:18 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Obviously you post what people want to hear in the right thread ;)
But I have also noticed that you have a 54% positive moderation (that is, you mod a lot of people down).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Mon 14th Jul 2008 06:29 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I post what I think and nothing else! Over time I've learned that it's not worth posting what I think in Linux threads ;)

Since I post often, these darned new restrictions mean I can't moderate much more than the occasional down because I've always commented early in the thread.

I generally don't vote up, unless it's a seriously good and right comment.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 07:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I generally don't vote up, unless it's a seriously good and right comment


And I generally don't vote down, unless it's a seriously bad and wrong comment ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 07:58 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

And BTW, I believe I found a temporary solution: spot all the people who mod down more than average (say with a positive moderation below 70%) and take away all their moderation points.
I have just found out that some people enjoy being nasty, that is why peer moderation has never worked and never will. Homo homini lupus.

Reply Score: 2

What would you suggest....
by Kokopelli on Sun 13th Jul 2008 16:31 UTC
Kokopelli
Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree that the moderation system should be changed but I have no idea how. What should be done to make it less of a popularity contest?

I was unhappy with the moderation Eugenia received and I felt that some of the comments that were moderated up were undeserved. But I guess at least a vocal part of the community made their voice heard.

Personally I do not post often, not out of fear of moderation though. I guess I am not a verbose person. On the other hand I have noticed myself hesitating to comment on some stories because I wanted to moderate the thread or an ongoing conversation instead. While this has a positive effect on lowering vindictive moderation it does decrease the amount of posting.

Reply Score: 2

AI Moderation
by zlynx on Tue 15th Jul 2008 01:30 in reply to "What would you suggest...."
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

What we need is an AI moderator!

A few simple rules it could work from:
- Is the comment on-topic?
- Is it insulting?
- Does it make a logical argument, if it is attempting to make a point?
- Are the assertions of fact made in the comment actually factual? It could flag these for research until its knowledge database grows.

Such a system should be perfectly fair until it becomes self-aware and begins pushing its own agenda. ;)

Reply Score: 1

report button
by Kokopelli on Sun 13th Jul 2008 16:38 UTC
Kokopelli
Member since:
2005-07-06

Also is it just me or does the report abuse button not work. When I click on it (firefox 3 and Konqueror on Ubuntu 8.04) it brings up an empty alert box and hides the comment for the session. When I return though it is back, laughing at me.

The recent rash of spams were the first time I ever felt the need to try so I do not know if this is recent or not.

Reply Score: 2

RE: report button
by RandomGuy on Sun 13th Jul 2008 18:48 in reply to "report button"
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

Same here on Kubuntu with Konqueror.
Would be nice if the alert box had some text - at least something like
"This isn't working yet".
Or does it work? Anyway, a little feedback would be nice.

Reply Score: 2

RE: report button
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 01:20 in reply to "report button"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

It seems to work fine here. Linux, Firefox 2.

Reply Score: 2

Full-time job
by fretinator on Mon 14th Jul 2008 15:29 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

Since it the 9000th discussion about a new moderation system, I recommend OSNews hire a full-time person to do nothing but revise the moderation system. Every Monday they would start developing a new system. It would be implemented on Friday, and all weekend we could moan and groan, until it starts over on Monday.

BUT....since we are in the suggestion mode, I'll throw in mine. Like Kroc, I comment a lot, which means I don't get to vote up/down comments a lot. I recommend that we not be able to moderate any comment in a thread below our comment; i.e., a reply or reply-to-reply below our comment. Since it is a recursive situtation, it may be a little harder for the PHP/SQL, but it would make more sense. To totally prohibit any further voting on the entire article seems a bit extreme.

Plus, as a developer, I like creating gnarly requirements for other coders! :}

Reply Score: 2

RE: Full-time job
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 15:54 in reply to "Full-time job"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"Since it the 9000th discussion about a new moderation system, I recommend OSNews hire a full-time person to do nothing but revise the moderation system. Every Monday they would start developing a new system. It would be implemented on Friday, and all weekend we could moan and groan, until it starts over on Monday."

Which doesn't change the fact that my suggestion has always been the same: get rid of peer moderation.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Full-time job
by fretinator on Mon 14th Jul 2008 16:31 in reply to "RE: Full-time job"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, to be honest I like a peer moderation system. Believe it or not, it helps me know what kinds of comments I make are useful for others, and which are not. Even my "comedy" posts benefit from this - I learn what people think is and is not funny. To me, it is useful feedback.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Full-time job
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 14th Jul 2008 17:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Full-time job"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, assuming that people moderated fairly, I'd agree with you. The problem is that many don't do so.

Reply Score: 2

People with multiple accounts?
by bousozoku on Thu 17th Jul 2008 05:13 UTC
bousozoku
Member since:
2006-01-23

It seems to me that it doesn't matter how you change it. It only works for the people who play by the rules.

I've seen some behaviour from certain people which would suggest that they have at least 1 extra account, so that they can not only disagree but mod down each and every comment with which they disagree, including the replies to their comments.

Should there be a point where troll-like behaviour is rewarded by exile?

Reply Score: 2