Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 21st Mar 2006 22:48 UTC
Novell and Ximian Novell will support its NetWare network operating system at least until 2015. However, its focus will be open source. "While not abandoning its current NetWare users, Novell officials on Monday made it clear that the company's focus is on open-source and open-standards computing. Kicking off the annual BrainShare conference at the Salt Palace, Novell Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jack Messman and others praised how open source and open standards - and Novell products based on them - can help businesses work more efficiently, provide them flexibility and agility and save them money."
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RE[3]: Focus on What
by grat on Wed 22nd Mar 2006 14:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Focus on What"
grat
Member since:
2006-02-02

Well since you don't know what my problem with Novell is then you obviously haven't used Novell's products or dealt with Novell in a business. Go away then.

Oh dear. I guess those 10 years managing several hundred workstations connected to half a dozen Netware servers, ranging from 4.10 to 6.5 (including OES/linux), and Zenworks 3.x to Zenworks 7 was all a dream? Gosh, I'm so glad you cleared that up for me.

All that time I spent in NetAdmin, NWAdmin, ConsoleOne, and iManager was a massive hallucination! All those workstations that I could deploy software, printers, drivers to remotely, in 1997, while sitting in my office... Guess it didn't happen.

We'll gloss over my period developing NLM's to synchronize the campus account system (over 80,000 accounts, last I looked) with NDS. Because it was still NDS then, not eDir.

Idiot.

I actually use, and have customers who pay for, Novell software. And no, we're not getting all gooey eyed over XGL or Novell's supposed open source contributions because they are meaningless fluff. I could criticise Microsoft or Red Hat, but I'm not going to because they seem to have some idea what they're doing.

Based on your complaints ("open source is fluff" and "novell isn't open sourcing anything") I'm having difficulty figuring out what you actually want from them. Insults aren't exactly the way to make your position more clear, so how's about you explain what products you use, and what you would rather see Novell doing, instead of it's current path?

Oh, and while openLDAP may be "open source", it sucks compared with eDirectory. The management tools are lacking, the backend support is minimal, and by the way, I can manage eDir through LDAP just fine, thank you very much.

Neither you, or Novell I might add, know what their product line is.

Well, there's a cool sounding sentence, I suppose, but totally lacking in proof, details, or information. So, +10 for cool factor, -100 for content. You should write Microsoft PR.

Wow. And it means what to me, or a customer, as to whether any of that stuff runs on Netware or Linux? It's the same software.

[...]

I'm not particularly interested in stuff running on Linux or Netware. If they're discontinuing Netware, as long as people can move seamlessly I don't care. If they're moving lock and stock to Linux then they should at least just tell people and let them know. They, themselves, are contributing to the uncertainty around Netware. Everyone knows what the score is, or what it should be, with Linux apart from Novell itself.


Well, gee. You complain about seamless migration, and say you don't know what the benefits of their services running equally well on linux or netware is. If the service can run on either Linux, or Netware, that suggests a pretty seamless transition path to me. But then again, I don't actually have any experience managing Netware environments, so I must not know what I'm talking about.

Ahhh. The usual open source bulls**t from the idiot open source person who thinks he knows what Novell does. Novell does not sell OpenOffice, XGL or Hula, and no one who actually uses and pays for Novell software in businesses use that stuff or know what it is either. Novell's core stuff is eDirectory, Zenworks, Groupwise and Netware/Linux/whatever they're angle is this week.

Actually, Hula was a project known as NetMail which they've sold to a number of Real, Paying Customers, and which formed the basis for the massive rewrite of Groupwise from 5.5 to 6.0. At least, that's what a number of Novell engineers told me.

As for why Novell cares, it's because they want a corporate desktop they can offer with their servers. Not a microsoft killer, because Novell knows such a beast doesn't exist, but a centrally managed client, that can be easily locked down, and remotely administered. Ideally, it should be as aesthetically pleasing (XGL) as Windows, and should offer equivalent functionality to Microsoft Office (OpenOffice). I suspect they open sourced Hula simply because they'd gotten what they wanted out of it (Groupwise 6).

Oh, and identity management is the other area you forgot where Novell consistently scores high marks.

Since you don't know what Novell's actual paying products are, apart from the non-existant open source rubbish everyone regurgitates on these forums, no you're not ;-).

I really don't know what you think your qualifications are to decide what my work experience is, without knowing me, or meeting me, but it's certainly typical of your attitude. If the first couple of paragraphs didn't convince you that I really do know Novell's product line, and have administered it for years, then you're pretty much a lost cause.

Rrrrrrright. Who says they're going to give anything away just because someone mentions using open source software sensibly to boost the usage of old, and dead, proprietary software, which Novell has not actually moved from?

You did, when you suggested that they can only survive by switching completely and totally to open source. Or something. Your posts are a moving target when it comes to what you think Novell should be doing, but it seems to boil down to "Novell Sucks".

And how does that translate into success for the business and increased revenue? I'm afraid that's yet another clue that you're not a Netware admin, nor have you used any of Novell's actual products.

Again with the unfounded insults. I'll answer you anyway... 3 years ago, you mention the word Novell, and most of the IT community's reaction was "They're still in business??!"

Today, everyone knows Novell is in business, and they know they're a linux vendor, that they bought SuSE, and a lot of the open source community is aware (and less bitter than you) of Novell's open source contributions.

That's reputation building. It's not quite marketing, but it's better than they've had for years.

Stomping on SCO publicly doesn't hurt their image either.

Unless you failed to grasp what Jack Messman was saying, they haven't actually migrated from that proprietary legacy environment. Oh, and remember that eDirectory and Groupwise are a part of that proprietary, legacy environment ;-), which very, very, very (and decreasing every day) few businesses are using these days. Groupwise is definitely a dead dodo.

Groupwise isn't dead, it just isn't sexy. It doesn't get press (sadly). Novell would be completely mental to ditch eDirectory, instead, they've made it more standards compliant (ldap access), and they're providing a USEFUL path for migration off of the legacy kernel.

Now, here's an exercise for you. Given that you're a Novell consultant or reseller, it should be easy. For the following products, name a competing product that scales as well, has the same feature set, and is as easy to manage:

Zenworks
GroupWise
iFolder
iPrint
eDirectory
Novell Identity Management

Now... how many of those competing products are open source?

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