Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 28th Jul 2006 18:28 UTC
.NET (dotGNU too) Microsoft is leaving Java in the dust, but the company still has room to grow in the developer arena, a key executive said. Speaking at the Microsoft FAM (Financial Analyst Meeting) on July 27 in Redmond, Wash., Bob Muglia, Microsoft's senior vice president of Server and Tools business, said Microsoft's .Net platform has outpaced Java, particularly the Java Enterprise Edition, over the past five years to become the development platform of choice for enterprise development.
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RE: Sun's problem with the ftuture
by zambizzi on Fri 28th Jul 2006 22:00 UTC in reply to "Sun's problem with the ftuture"
zambizzi
Member since:
2006-04-23

Sun has a problem of where to go with Java in the future. Java has been a big success on the server but never made it on the desktop.

Not true - Swing is extremely popular for corporate projects and has been found to be the #1 GUI toolkit.

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/hansmuller/archive/2005/10/official_sw...

The Java leadership at Sun has always been resistant to change because they, wrongly or rightly, felt that Java should be simple. I guess one of their reasonsings is that business wants something with a minimal core set of features so that programmers can be interchanged more easily.

Java has many times more features and classes than .NET available in the core libraries. The leadership at Sun believes that Java should embrace standards and vendor independence.

They knew they had to start off with a language that was Java-like

After having made a living off of .NET/C# for nearly 5 years and then moving to Java almost exclusively, I can now almost entirely agree with those that said it was a near 1:1 copy of Java with some extras thrown in, copied from C++.

Microsoft has always been much more language agnostic than Sun too. To Microsoft, .NET is the platform and that's what is most important. To Sun, the Java language is the most important.

Most shops do not have developers writing apps in several different languages, in fact it's typically discouraged. Having standards for development reduces complexity...having apps written in several different languages is a maintainence nightmare and a potential liability. Language independence is worthless, IMO, even though Java will soon have it as well (and already does somewhat w/ Groovy.)

So the question is about the future. As we enter the functional/OO hybrid era with C# 3.0, what is Sun's response going to be? Will Sun get behind something like Scala. Will Sun continue to follow C#? Will Sun come up with a new language for the JVM?

Functional/OO hybrid era? What??? In the Twilight Zone? Sun has *never* followed C#...that's rediculous, it's very much the other way around. One recent example: generics - who had them first? You obviously do not follow Java and have no idea what is happening in the Java community at all. You will be able to choose from several scripting languages in Java 6.0...due out before the end of the year....in beta now.

What is Sun going to do?

Have you taken a look at Java EE 5? EJB 3.0? I've personally built apps (web and rich-client) on both .NET and Java platforms. Microsoft doesn't even begin to have anything *close* to EJB 3.0 - it's going to bury any hopes of .NET gaining ground against Java on the server-side...period.

The question is; what is Microsoft going to do? When are they going to stop encouraging developers to rely on their tools and actually *learn* the guts of their applications...and create *enterprise* grade applications on their technologies? When will Microsoft see that platform dependence is hurting their cause? When will they realize the impact of open source and open standards? Sure, 'rotor' (basic chunks of the .NET runtime) is an open standard...but the rest is a black-box. Java will be *entirely* open source before this time next year and through the JCP - users have had their say where Java has gone and is going in the future.

It's clear that you're tech-savvy but are a bit of a Microsoft advocate and tend to lean on that side of the fence. It helps to be objective when making a comparison and knowing both sides of the issue never hurts.

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