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RE[3]: spelling error
by Kondor337 on Tue 15th Apr 2008 19:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: spelling error"
Kondor337
Member since:
2006-09-16

First of all, the rule to use ß or ss does not consider the "length" of vocals because this is due to dialects. For example, in Bavaria "Spaß" (joy) is spoken with a "short vocal" - pr. shpuss - so it would be written "Spass", in opposite, in Hamburg is is spoken with a "long vocal", - pr. shpaarse - so it would be written "Spaß" there.


I'm sorry, but that's not true. The official rules have always considered the length of the preceding vocal. The official rules used to be:

"ss" if it's between two vocals and the first one is short (diphtongs count as long vocals)
"ß" otherwise

So it was "Straße" (long "a"), "Schloß" (short "o", but not between two vocals), "Scheiße" ("ei" counts as long vocal) and "müssen" (between two vocals and the "ü" is short).
This rule only differentiates between "ss" and "ß", it says nothing about when to use "ss"/"ß" and when to use a single "s". You simply have to learn that. It's the same thing in the English language: There's no rule that tells you that misunderstanding isn't written missunderstanding.

With the new orthography the two-vocal-rule has been eliminated. So now you only have to look at the preceding vocal: It's still "Straße" (long "a"), "Scheiße" ("ei" counts as long vocal) and "müssen" (the "ü" is short), but now you write "Schloss" (short "o", it doesn't matter anymore that the "ss"/"ß" isn't between two vocals).

Probably it's sometimes difficult for people who speak a dialect and, e.g., pronounce "Spaß" with a short "a". But these people cannot say: "I do not accept the rules, because I cannot speak High German properly."
In High German "Spaß" has to be pronounced with a long "a" and therefore it's written "Spaß".

Traditionally, the rule to select between ss and ß is this: If an ss cannot be divided, ß is used.


This is interesting. It looks like your "traditional" rule gives the exact same results as the former German official rules. "Straße" (not "Stras-se"), "Schloß" (not "Schlos-s"), "Scheiße" (not "Scheis-se"), "müssen" ("müs-sen"). The (dumb) reformers, however, probably knew only the official rules and thought: If we simplify these rules, it will be simpler to decide when to use "ß" and "ss". They didn't know there was another "traditional rule" that was even simpler, but now cannot be used at all anymore. (I didn't know your rule, either, and I may say that I'm an expert regarding the German language, too.)

By the way, I completely agree with everything else you said about that "Neusprech"...

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