Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Apr 2008 17:47 UTC, submitted by Brain
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Member since:
2006-09-16
"ss" if it's between two vocals and the first one is short (diphtongs count as long vocals)
"ß" otherwise
That's not entirely correct. Let me take the time to proove it.
"
No, you are completely wrong. It IS correct. These were the official rules for deciding when to use ss and when to use ß. As I said, they said nothing about when to use ss/ß and when to use s. And it's not a suggestion, it's the official rule. Please accept that.
According to that rule (or, let's call it suggestion, because it's nothing different), words like "bis" or "Zeugnis" would have to be written "biss" or "Zeugniss". Words like "Glas" or "Rasen" would have to be written "Glaß" or "Raßen". As you will agree, that's not correct. As I mentioned furthermore, "vocal lengths" are subject of dialects.
q.e.d. :-)
1.) No, Zeugnis, Glas, Rasen are not written with ß/ss and are not affected by the rule. Again, the rule only differentiates between ss and ß.
2.) vocal lengths may be different in dialects, but if you don't speak High German, you have to learn the correct lengths. It's not that it's somehow arbitrary how to speak "Spaß". In High German, you HAVE TO speak it with a long a, hence it's written "Spaß".
I don't know why you used the word "always"; the standard orthography defines individable ss to be written as ß. That's the simple rule. Allthough since the beginning of the reforms more and more suggestions occured, the standard rule is still present and used, by the way, more and more often, because it is easier to master than the "vocal length suggestion".
I may be easier, but the "vocal length suggestion" is the official rule, it's not a suggestion.
The vocals did matter and they do still matter. If you cannot use these rules, because you are from Bavaria and cannot speak High German properly, that's unfortunate, but doesn't change the rules. You're correct in that the Neusprech suggestion creates horrible looking words, but that's not the point here.
Because vocal lengths are a matter of dialects, you cannot tell for sure how a vocal is spoken. For example, "Gras" can be spoken with a long a and a short a, but in no case "Graß" or "Grass" is written.
This has NOTHING to do with dialects. The official rules are for High German, and e.g. Gras is never spoken with a short "a" in High German. Please stop using these silly examples. The rule doesn't say anything about when to use ss/ß and when to use s, so you cannot disprove the rule by trying to apply it to these cases.
This is the main reason why pupils today have so many problems regarding correct spelling. I've seen it all. I know it, I did work in education sector. :-)
I still work there, and it's the same thing at the university – even the students cannot write properly anymore.
"Probably it's sometimes difficult for people who speak a dialect and, e.g., pronounce "Spaß" with a short "a". But these people cannot say: "I do not accept the rules, because I cannot speak High German properly.";
As I proved, nobody needs to obey these suggestions (because they have no power of force).
"
Pupils, students and public service staff have to use these RULES. Other people can write the way they prefer.