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I didn't start any flamewar - I simply prefer KDE. Ubuntu does not offer that *out of the box*. There is no real reason why Ubuntu cannot offer a DVD which has Gnome/KDE/XFCE on it.

My problems with their forum were related to asking a question about sudo - apparently it's deemed to be a good enough reason to ban someone for mentioning sudo, or su. The way to get people smarter is to educate them, not friggen dumb them down. Ubuntu (and Gnome imho) is doing things in the latter fashion. I prefer the former. Getting a PM warning from a Mod on their godforsaken forums, for your first post, is ridiculous. Especially when said rule is not clearly stated upon joining the forum (so, how the hell are you meant to know about it?). Especially when said rule is silly.

If a Linux newbie hoses their system because they use su rather than root (very unlikely, since said newbie would probably screw their system using sudo anyways), they will learn. If they don't learn, they shouldn't be using a computer imho. Period. We have far too many dumb users who don't want to learn using computers today, and that is the main reason why viruses and spyware run rampant, and why so much potential bandwidth on the net is bloody well lost. I'm well and truly sick and tired of having to put up with reduced bandwidth because of their brainless idiots. And these are the types of ex-Windows refugees that Ubuntu is attracting.

Each release of Ubuntu becomes more unstable (at least from my research), with more issues upon release, causing more problems for end users. People bitch about Debian releasing every 2 or so years, crikey, Microsoft does a release every 6 or so years, and Apple is about the same as Debian (on average), maybe slightly better.

Ubuntu looks plain ugly out of the box - of course, using Gnome doesn't help here - it's one of the ugliest looking desktop environments to have ever graced my eyes (even CDE looks better to be honest). I guess beauty is really in the eye of the beholder ;-)

For all those Linux nuts who say 'choice is great' - Ubuntu is doing *exactly* the opposite. Reduced choice at time of install, and Ubuntu itself has, and still continues to, kill off many distributions. You might argue survival of the fittest [distribution], and I'd personally agree with you on that point, but many diehard Linux users love choice. Personally, this "choice" is why so many Linux applications are so, well...let's just say not mature ;-)

Dave