Linked by Rahul on Tue 28th Apr 2009 14:49 UTC
Fedora Core Fedora 11 Preview Release has been announced with a large number of new features, even more so than previous general releases. This includes Presto (delta RPM updates reducing bandwidth usage over 80% typically), automatic font and mime installer via PackageKit, Nouveau as the default driver for Nvidia cards (3D support is not mature and disabled however), simplified Anaconda text mode installation and minimal installation support, automatic Bug Reporting tool, native access to Microsoft Exchange using OpenChange, Firefox 3.1 and ThunderBird 3.0, Windows Cross Compiler (MinGW and a comprehensive set of cross compiled libraries), Ext4 as the default filesystem, experimental support for the next generation Btrfs filesystem, improved I18N with the switch to IBus input system by default, much improved Kernel Mode Support, many virtualization and security improvements, RPM 4.7, GNOME 2.26, KDE 4.2, Xfce 4.6, Linux Kernel 2.6.29, Python 2.6. GCC 4.4 and several other changes.
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RE[4]: upgrades
by sbergman27 on Fri 1st May 2009 15:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: upgrades"
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

Sorry, but this claim should taken behind the shed and shot. In my experience apt is no faster than, say, Fedora 9 or 10. (Even w/o presto) From a -clean- state, with 4 repositories (Fedora, fedora-updates, RPMFusion, kde-*), it takes me between 1:30 to 2:20 to get a clean copy of -all- the repositories and conduct a full search. [2]. (I ran the test 3 times. Slowest run displayed; Fastest run took ~1:28)

Well, I just ran the same test, from a -clean- slate, with apt on Ubuntu Jaunty and measured an average of 14.5 seconds on 3 runs. (Range: 13.8s - 15.0s) The total number of packages was 26701. The servers are noticeably slower right now due to the recent release of 9.04. But with apt, I'm still seeing 6 to 8 times the performance than you are seeing with yum. The fact that you seem to consider 1:28 to 2:20 good is amazing to me. (Although your numbers are about what I would have guessed for Yum.) I suppose people come to accept what they are used to. Yum *is* a lot better than it used to be.

Your numbers, while pretty poor, do show another annoying characteristic of yum in the real world. See how *variable* the performance is? Not infrequently, I have to abort and try again. And not on just one machine. This is something I have noticed about yum over time. The Fedora mirror system has lots of dud and unresponsive servers. Timeout and fall back to another server is a routine occurrence.

While apt support for multiple downloads is major plus, Fedora (at least here) has better repositories which usually max-out my net connection (both @home and @work), so parallel download doesn't really change anything.

Really? On the same connection, I typically see a couple hundred KB/s, at best, using yum (yes, with the fastest-mirror plugin) and I regularly see around 1MB/s (or even more) with apt. It's interesting to watch apt "ramp up" as it finds more servers. Yum typically just staggers along, variably.

On the other hand, Fedora's mirror and repository management is far better than Debian's.

I never *worry* or think about mirrors with apt in Ubuntu. They "just work" and work well. I only have to mess with mirror configs with yum and Fedora. Relative repo management finesse, I'm not sure about.

First, I wouldn't use Fedora for an XDMP server to begin with. Being bleeding edge, Fedora should not be used for a production sever. (Especially given the 13 month support cycle)

I agree completely. The way this happened is that we were coming from, and thus were somewhat already committed to, the Red Hat world. Which means Fedora or CentOS. We were using CentOS, and it's a good OS. But by EOL the packages are moldy goo, which is not ideal for an XDMCP server. Some of the Fedora advocates around here convinced me that Fedora would be OK because of the supposedly fantastic testing that packages get as part of the release process. And one can only tell so much from a small pilot evaluation. Boy were they wrong. Boy was I wrong. And boy was the move from CentOS 4 to Fedora 8 embarrassing!

Second, people tend to forget that being bleeding edge, Fedora releases a -lot- of updates on a daily basis. At least in part, Yum's memory consumption depends on the number of packages being installed / updated.

Well, yeah, a gigabyte a month of Fedora updates is a pain.

Could you please compare apt memory consumption to Yum, when you try and install 100 packages?

No. I am not going to install and deinstall 100 packages on either my home desktop or on my customers' servers just to get numbers for you. I will reiterate and clarify that yum can cause swap storms on the XDMCP server in question when installing just *one* package. And I'm not the only one who has noticed. Just google for:

fedora yum memory

Edited 2009-05-01 15:50 UTC

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