Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 25th Nov 2009 17:57 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu At the Ubuntu Developer Summit, which took place last week, it was announced that the next release of the Ubuntu Linux distribution, version 10.04, will no longer carry the GIMP in its default installation. This actually touches upon somethin I've been wanting to talk about, a problem that plagues both Linux and Mac OS X: Paint.NET is Windows-only.
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RE[6]: Hmm... what about Krita ?
by oiaohm on Thu 26th Nov 2009 08:06 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Hmm... what about Krita ?"
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"You are not comparing like with like.

KDE libs is the equivalent of GNOME libs.
GTK+ libs are included by both KDE and GNOME.
Qt libs are the equivalent of Mono.

The KDE set of dependencies is lighter than the GNOME set (if you include Mono apps with GNOME).

If you want a lighter desktop with more functionality and less dependencies, you start with KDE + Qt, not GNOME + Mono.

At this point I think you are willfully ignoring the topic of the original story. The story is about Ubuntu, a Gnome based distro, and their default install. It's not about KDE based distros, even if a KDE based solution is 'lighter', it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and has NOTHING to do with Ubuntu or it's default install which always was, and always will be Gnome based. Suggesting that they include Krita is completely unrealistic. Ubuntu will always include gnomelibs and gtklibs as part of it's install so the only additional cost including a Paint.NET like app is the cost of mono. According to the installed size of mono-runtime on amd64 is 3424 kb. According to the same website kdelibs shared libraries take up 33504 kb of installed space on amd64. And that is just counting the base package and not any of the dependencies. So as you can see including Krita in the default install of Ubuntu, which is what this entire article is about, will take up an order of magnitude more space then including mono.

No get your numbers right. kdelibs is a complete runtime. That mono-runtime is missing items like libmono-corlib1.0-cil + another 2 megs there No .net program runs basically without it.

Then plus libmono-system1.0-cil There goes another 2 megs. Again no mono program is going to work without it. Does not take long a 2 megs here 2 megs there to sneek up way larger than the KDE runtime systems.

Only gets worse those things get larger in ram as they are converted into native x86 code.

Ubuntu guys are being stupid. Some of the reason they are not fitting as many applications as they use to on a Ubuntu Live CD is the leach mono eating up the space. Same with the poor performance on low end machines.

Runtime is only good enough to run the bytecode nothing more by mono. Mono runtime is fragmented. Once you have the whole Mono runtime installed to run something lot more diskspace has gone.

Mono is death by 1000 cuts. Dependencies is a good one. Failure to check out the dependency tree hides the true cost.

Really Ubuntu needs to take 1000 bloat cuts. Tomboy out for Gnote F-spot out for gthumb or equal made work correctly. Compiler work so it can build code. Go through the gnome runtime cutting it down to size. There is a lot of useless code hiding out in the gnome run-time.

We have a long time to go until the next ubuntu release. Lot of changes are going to happen in the middle that will alter all the size numbers.

Simple fact here mono is not native. Cost of not being native is painful on a livecd.

Disk space is only a small part of a livecd. How well the livecd runs is also important. Less applications better performance will get more user.

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