Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 12th Nov 2010 22:35 UTC, submitted by Debjit
Fedora Core Well, what do we have here? It turns out that Ubuntu isn't the only Linux distribution who took a left turn off the X.org highway, now driving on a road that will eventually lead to replacing X.org with Wayland. Fedora's 'graphics cabal', as they call themselves, have explained themselves on Fedora's devel mailing list. They also explain how network transparency can be added to Wayland in a number of different ways, making the mailing list thread intriguing reading material. Also, everybody happy with the headline? No panties in twists this time around...?
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RE[4]: Twisted headline?
by werpu on Sat 13th Nov 2010 11:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Twisted headline?"
werpu
Member since:
2006-01-18

You just might be true. The sad thing is that volume might won over function in this issue (i.e. if distros with large user basestake it up). Network transparency _is_ a major functionality of X, and as also some people in the Fedore discussion thread have said, a new framework can't replicate this functionality well if it's not included in the design considerations from the first steps. Adding rdp/vnc functionality on top is a far worse solution, coming from trials to replicate X's networking capabilities in systems that lacked them. If they just want to create a new branch of Linux based desktop systems based on only client/desktop functionality, that should be acceptable, but that should be a _clear_ and loud message from the start, and a generial replacement of X should not be a goal. And maybe it isn't, but then their communication sucks.

Anyway looking at the Wayland architecture text, Wayland doesn't seem to want to replace X server, it just wants to sit below the X server, eventually making X performance worse (this is just a feeling, I don't know that for sure), But still, from all the text and graphics, it seems that the "new X" on top of Wayland would be a reduced version of the current X and network capabilities are never mentioned anywhere.

I think we just need someone to clear the air about Wayland's exact goals and its stance towards X. Speculation has run its course enough, I'd say.


The problem with X11s performance on top of wayland is not given because if you run it locally the toolkits will bypass X11 altogether and for remoteing face it the rendering performance for remoting is the smallest bottleneck the biggest one is the dreadful x11 protocol itself.

Besides that:
I am not sure if RDP is really a worse solution than X11, after all it performs way better than X11 ever did.
The thread is pretty clear, on one hand are the guys who want to do it, basically also X11 contributors, on the other hand a bunch of admins who fear to loose their X11 remoting, which never really worked well (and the X11 guys pretty clearly stated that even a single button press causes multiple roundtrips) and they offered various solutions, but they also said, network transparency should not be part of the rendering core because otherwise you will end up in the same mess X11 nowadays is regarding modern uis, it depends on whether it will be solved like a vnc on windowing level or a drawing level. But there will be a transitional period where both will work until this issue is resolved. But in the end we will get something better working than the slow as molasses network stuffing X11 protocol!

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