Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Feb 2012 17:53 UTC
General Development "In this blog post (and the one that will follow) we'd like to introduce a few of the broad reaching experience improvements that we've delivered in Visual Studio 11. We've worked hard on them over the last two years and believe that they will significantly improve the experience that you will have with Visual Studio."
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RE[7]: For C++
by JeffS on Mon 27th Feb 2012 17:45 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: For C++"
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Pfffffft - a hardcore Java EE dev bagging on what VS "lacks". That's a good one.

I've developed in both worlds, and I can tell you, developing in the MS/VS/.Net world is an infinitely more pleasant and productive experience. The JEE world is just loaded with unnecessary bloat, bugginess, fragmentation, and complexity, with inferior tools (tools that seem great at first, until you fall into their endless pitfalls).

Eclipse? Nice IDE circa 2001, Nowadays, not so much. Bloated as hell, buggy as hell, 90% of the plugins suck, and it's way overcomplicated to do what should be simple, routine tasks. Netbeans is really nice, but most of the Java community turns its nose up at it because, well, you wouldn't want things to be too easy? Intellij is really good, but lacks in automation of certain things, and again, most just "default" to Eclipse.

Maven? Love it's dependency management. Don't love it so much when it tries to download dependencies it doesn't really need every time you do a build, and the builds take an eternity, or they fail. And there are tons of rants/blogs out there lamenting about the ridiculous pitfalls of Maven.

Let's not even talk about the endless web frameworks (all of which are great for certain things, suck for other things, have a lot of overlap/redundancy, and all are completely incompatible), or the various app servers (same thing as with web frameworks). By contrast ASP.Net (and ASP.Net MVC) isn't all that and bag of chips, but for the most part, it gets the job done, and it's pretty easy to work with, and you don't have to constantly relearn for the next "latest and greatest open source web framework).

And anecdotal evidence (for whatever that's worth, probably not much), shows over and over (yes I read plenty of blogs/rants for the fun of it) shows that, in general, what would take a .Net, PHP, Ruby, Python Dev about two days to accomplish, will take a JEE dev about two weeks or more to get done, because they have so much more shit to deal with. Sometimes, due to the scale and needs of that app, all that JEE shit is necessary (and the other stuff might fall short). But those are the minority of the cases. The trouble with the JEE world is that everything takes the stance of trying to solve the biggest and most complex of problems, and then applies that to everything, regardless of the application/problem domain. Thus, all the unnecessary complexity.

Personally, I couldn't care less platform/language/tools/IDE religious wars. For me, it's all good and interesting. But as I've gotten older, I've more and more wanted to steer away from the Java world, because developing in that world just isn't fun. It's painful. And it's elitist. I just want to get shit done and go home at night. True, Java devs tend to top the pay scale, but not by much. But they deserve it, because they have to work so much harder, longer, and deal with so much more pain. Hell, they deserve to be paid twice as much as everyone else, but they only get paid maybe 5% to 10% more (at best) more than equivalent .Net/PHP/Ruby/Python/C++ devs. ;-)

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