Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 18:23 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless After a few months of relative silence and vagueness, we're finally getting something tangible from Jolla, the promising mobile phone company which came forth from former Nokia employees. It's ambitious - they're not just going to create a mobile operating system, not just a mobile phone, but an entire ecosystem, including cloud services and data centres. At its heart? The beautiful city of Hong Kong. The prime target market? China.
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RE[3]: sort of open
by leech on Sat 6th Oct 2012 18:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: sort of open"
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

Oh boy, here we go again. Desktop Linux fails to gain traction because X.org and PulseAudio are constantly breaking upgrades. Dell shipped laptops only to have them borked by PulseAudio in the next upgrade, and let's not forget the countless X.org breakages with GPUs over the years. Compatibility with existing apps is also suffering in Linuxland, see how PulseAudio broke many ALSA apps.
But the main problem is upgrades IMO. It's a nightmare for any user... You can't stay with the old version (like you can in Windows) because stuff is rarely backported in Linuxland ("just download the latest version, it's free" they say) and if you upgrade, you risk having your computer borked and thrown to CLI or a black screen.


I know I shouldn't feed the troll....

Actually if you use Debian (as it states later in your post) you'd see that they do indeed backport software to 'older' versions of Linux I honestly still have a server that runs (though I haven't done much to it lately since I got a new server to replace it) that was installed with Debian while it was in 'testing' of Etch, and upgraded it to 'stable' when Etch was finalized, then upgraded to Lenny when that was released. Then on to Squeeze. This is the same install over 5 years without a reinstall (Etch came out in 2007 and Squeeze came out in 2011, and I was using Etch for at least a year before it was coined stable)

Android is Linux that doesn't use X.org and PulseAudio and it's doing fine in the market.


Precisely why I don't like Android. It has the Linux kernel, sure, but doesn't have any of the matching userland. I think the only thing that does match is busybox.

Servers and supercomputers that are (should be) headless and hence don't need X.org and PulseAudio are doing fine in the marker.

I am student in a university (cs.uoi.gr) that runs entirely on Debian and I like it (as long as someone else does the upgrades for me). I like Ubuntu (Unity) and Mint, and yet I don't want to have Linux on my PC because I am afraid of the upgrade debacle. I do not want to do reinstalls every 6 months or mess with X.org.

The Linux community needs to stop whining about evil proprietary software, lack of apps etc and find money (a business model) to hire developers and fix their broken X.org and PulseAudio.


That pretty much sums up your issues right there. You're using Ubuntu and Mint for your desktops. When you're afraid of upgrades 'cause they'll break... I suggest Debian or something that doesn't do a release every 6 months. I would even say you should use the Ubuntu LTS releases only and just skip all the ones in between.

Just because some distributions have broken updates in the past does not mean that all Linux distributions do. Seriously, Debian (and their derivatives) are the easiest to keep up to date and working fantastically.

Ubuntu's issue is mostly that 6 month gap. Every release, they sync over Debian Unstable changes, then spend 5 months grabbing new packages, testing as fast as they can, and then doing a 'freeze' for a month, then release.

Debian on the other hand... they freeze when they like the current versions / features / software and then test and test and test... eliminating as many release critical issues they can, then finally they'll release. Freeze period is usually 6 months, the entire length of upgrade period that Ubuntu has.

For the record, the last time I had any issues with X.org not working... I was trying to win a bet with a friend about whether or not I could get Gnome-Shell working on a Pentium 2 @300Mhz with 256MB of ram. You know what? It DID work, but the fonts looked all sorts of odd with the Nouveau driver. So I tried to install the legacy nvidia driver (the graphics card was a Geforce 5500) and the legacy driver crashed, I'm guessing it didn't like Wheezy's version of X.org. But as I said, it DID work with the open source driver, so the fault isn't even X.org, but nvidia for not supporting older video cards very well.

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