Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 16th Apr 2013 16:37 UTC
Windows Microsoft's Terry Myerson, corporate vice president of Windows Phone, talks about the competition. "With iPhone, I sense that it's running out of steam. With iOS, [Apple] just added a fifth row of icons. Android is... kind of a mess. Look at Samsung - there's clearly mutiny going on. The only OEM making money off of Android is Samsung." There's truth to all these statements, which makes it all the more surprising that Microsoft appears to be unable to properly capitalise on them. Sure, WP appears to be doing well in a few select markets, but by no means the kind of success Microsoft and (Nokia) was banking on. Microsoft will pull through. Nokia on the other hand...
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RE[7]: Bleah
by TemporalBeing on Wed 17th Apr 2013 14:33 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bleah"
TemporalBeing
Member since:
2007-08-22

"
Name the final judgement or settlement terms for any Android OEM?


This is misleading. Microsoft makes bank off of almost every Android device manufactured by a major OEM and now recently even another ODM with Foxconn.
"

While that has been stated, please quote how much each pays. Show the money trail.

The problem is, the numbers are not public. For all we know MS could be paying out more than they are receiving back. So please, stop quoting Microsoft's press information and quote real, hard numbers for individual OEMs.

Nokia is looking to severely unload on Android with VP8 patents, the really hard to design around, non FRAND, very powerful types.


Again, don't look at accusations. Look at the real numbers. VP8 has not yet been found to necessarily contain any patents, let alone any enforceable patents.

Its again, misleading to suggest that because the extremely lengthy legal process has not been completely exhausted, that the judgements up to this point in time are invalid on those merits alone.


Until you have a final judgement, then it is only speculation as to what will happen in the end.

Look at The SCO Group. They predicated a win all along, but not only did they lose (even after having the trial tilted in their favor), but they are out of business. Sure Microsoft, Apple, Nokia may remain in business, but litigations in court are hard to predict, especially as one party may decide to settle before too much gets out to the public.

That is why I asked for final judgements and settlement information. Nothing else can be relied on as it can all be appealed. Patents can be revoked or found to be non-infringed during the process; and products can be modified to remove infringement.

Samsung has been found to infringe on Apple's patents. The case is on appeal, but they have been found to infringe. You don't call a convicted murderer innocent because he hasnt exhausted the decades of appeals he's entitled to.


FYI - Samsung was found to infringe by a jury that didn't consider any evidence of prior art; even as the USPTO found among the same evidence prior art. So it's hard to say the jury got it right, especially as appeals proceed. Again, that's why I asked for final judgements and settlements, to try to keep it simple for the conversation.

Hint: The legal system is painfully slow.


Yes it is. And with respect to patents and copyrights you have to wait until it is done to determine the actual result.

What you should instead consider are the relatives strengths and weaknesses of the cases at hand. That to me is a much more accurate representation of Android's situation.


And you are qualified to make such determinations? That's why we have the courts, to settle things people can't agree on using defined processes and procedures. If it was simple enough that a layman could make a determination then we wouldn't need the courts.

When looked at from this point of view, its easy to find various instances of dangerous situations for Android. Apple still has pending litigation in multiple countries that are all still very dangerous.

Oracle likely has a stronger case still than people consider. The Judge's ruling in its case really was odd and unprecedented if you look at past case law, and Android could still be found to be in the wrong there.

I mentioned Nokia with their VP8 patents, but there's also HTC who routinely gets smacked around for various patents by various individuals.


Again, neither you nor I are qualified to make such determinations.

Microsoft has again signed up a large majority of these OEMs for a reason. The likes of Samsung doesn't go into a contract with Microsoft lightly, considering they didn't take a license for Apple on what are probably more favorable terms, the fact that they took one from Microsoft is telling.


There's multiple factors involved.

For instance, some decided it was easier and cheaper just to pay off a racketeer than to go to court to fight it out.

So unless you know the motives of the individual companies involved, you don't know why they did it. It may have had nothing to do with any actual patents, but merely the threat.

There is an incredible amount of legal uncertainty surrounding Android, and trying to equate it with a platform like Windows Phone, where OEMs are idemnified is wrong.


Stop spreading the FUD line. You are not getting yourself anywhere with it.

You certainly don't seem to understand how court proceedings work, or why one can only really count final judgements. And the OEMs for Android that have taken it to court seem to have generally done very well in tossing patents, etc.

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