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>> it sounds like you want gnome to be more like kde.

> Definately not. I want the developer tools and some of
> the architecture of KDE, but definately not the UI and
> its bloat.

[note: the following is _not_ in any way a troll]
( and I just read in a newer post that you request we keep
the discussion to gnome... well, I'm gonna send this
anyhow 'cuz I already wrote it; guess you'll mod it down )

Lets break your statement down a bit:

1 - "... but definately not the UI and its bloat"

A truly arguable assertment... I have to guess that when
you say "bloat", you're talking the backed architecture
and libs - bloated as in, there's _lots_ of it, not
bloated as in slow and sluggish. I can confirm with my
own direct experiences using both extensively, that KDE
is defintely _not_ slower than gnome, and in fact often
seems faster - *especialy* when built from source, and
after being prelinked. So let's be fair and say that
speedwise, they're comparable.

So if you mean "bloat", as in "tons of architecture,
libs, and dependencies - then I'm curious in knowing
which parts/components of kde you find expendable? As
quoted from one of the berlin/fresco guys, on the
subject of using corba - something along the lines of:
"it's not bloat if you're using all the features".

You also mention the UI - you don't like it? The look?
Something a mere theme and a new iconset could rectify?

2 - "I want the developer tools and some of the
architecture of KDE"

Hmm... well, I know that you must understand that the
reason why that architecture, those tools, and those
apps are even available, let alone that they're so far
advanced and extensible and feature-rich, is _strictly_
due to all that "bloat" you have issue with. This does
not compute.

What I can see, is that it would be far easier, quicker
and realistic to solve a couple of kde's issues, that it
could ever possibly be to get these things you like about
kde into gnome.

Here's what kde could use to address your concerns:

A focused distribution that takes the standard vanilla KDE
and simply delivers it in a more asthetic and approachable
package. This would kill the issue people have with the
fact that they often need to spend alot of time getting
kde to look/act the way they want before they can start
working.

A new theme and icon set - something more "professional",
or "sharp". I would love to see this myself - I have a
really hard time with kde's general "fluffy"/"colorfull"
look and feel. And as we can all plainly see - looks are
everything. I bet if kde stayed _exactly_ the way it was,
but looked just like gnome... there'd be *alot* more kde
users...

Finally, to address your "bloat" problem, kde could use a
much better and refined/configurable build/install routine
that allows the user/distro to control exactly which bits
get installed and which dont. Though, initialy, the
focused distro I mentioned first could take care of this
easy enough.

Of course, continuing the effort toward the usability
guidlines are also important... but thats already happening.

These few things mentioned above are quite simple and
totally in the realm of possibility within a limited time
frame. To get gnome to change in much of the manner
mentioned in your wish list would take _much_ more effort
and time... at least to do right.

Cheers