Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 7th Apr 2004 05:50 UTC
Apple By most counts, they're a hit. But they were intended to woo new users to the fold, yet Mac market share has only budged -- lower, says BusinessWeek.
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re: Mac price misconceptions
by PainKilleR on Thu 8th Apr 2004 11:48 UTC

That's because Dell, in addition to selling real laptop computers, also sells desktops cleverly designed to look like laptops.

So anything over 12" is no longer a notebook? What about people that want a desktop-replacement that's "luggable"? In any case, the 14" notebooks that cost less than the 12" iBooks are certainly better suited for portability than the last notebook I used, and many of their models are comparable to Apple's offerings. Again, though, it's all a matter of what you're looking for.

Really? You can actually buy a Dell without a keyboard and mouse? I found a way to upgrade the mouse but at what looks like full retail price for the new mouse. Similarly, I can't take out the modem or the ethernet. I am sure Dell would configure a system without these items but there does not appear to be a way to lower the price by removing them.

Dell will allow you to remove the monitor. But the savings of $50 is almost a joke.

Really, I just don't know what you are talking about.


I'm talking about buying a PC in general, not just a Dell, or Gateway, or whatever. Regardless of who I buy my PC from I'll have to buy my keyboard and trackball from someone else, because the makers of the keyboards and trackballs I use don't make PCs. I can use the same things on any new PC, or on a new Mac, but either way I'm not going to buy a new keyboard and mouse that I'm going to just toss out the window or throw into the box at work with all of the Dell mice and keyboards sitting there (thanks to the handful of people that replaced them with their own).

Similarly, I don't buy a PC if I can't specify the chipsets used for the mainboard, ethernet, video card, and sound card (even if all of these are built into the motherboard). If I buy a notebook, at least I have a long list of manufacturers to choose from until I get the balance of price and parts that I'm looking for. In general, though, I avoid notebooks specifically because they are harder to upgrade and there are so many things that have to be accepted from the OEM. I can go to any local shop and get what I want for a desktop system, even if they have to order half the hardware.

1. You can't get a real valuable (for anything other than a firewall) $200 PC anywhere

Computers don't have to be valuable to be useful. A 1.3GHz linux system from WalMart can be very useful for many people. I know that I'd probably still be using a 1GHz PC if mine hadn't stopped working after a move. Thankfully, I only had to swap out the CPU and motherboard (but since I had extra money at the time, I upgraded to 2GHz and swapped out the RAM, case, and power supply as well).

2. Perhaps you should use the eMac for comparison then. That IS the value model in Apple's lineup.

I know this, but then an eMac starts at $800. The "value" models of Apple's line can't even be purchased without a monitor, even, as you said, with Dell's "laughable" $50 off for no monitor. The low-end eMac has the same amount of RAM as the WalMart $200 PC, 10GB more hard drive space, a combo drive, and a monitor, for $600 more. I can add a 17" CRT for $150, a DVD+/-RW/CD-RW drive for $80-150, and an 80GB hard drive for $120, and still come up with money to upgrade the system beyond the eMac. For the $200+ left, I could pull quite a nice motherboard/CPU/RAM combo from one website or another, just in case the 1.3GHz Duron isn't good enough (which, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't).

3. Nothing in the $500 range on a PC can possibly compare to what you get in a G5 PowerMac. Don't make me laugh.

You're right, the G5s start at $1800, which isn't at all what I was comparing things to. I was instead looking at the $1300 iMac and the $800-1100 eMac. Instead, if I wanted to compare to an $1800 PowerMac, I'd start with $1000 PCs and work my way up to the $1800-3000 range of the PowerMac.

DUH. There IS no price difference. That is what people have been saying (that you have been ignoring). The ONLY difference is that Apple forces you to buy a minimum bundle of features.

The point is that there is a significant price difference, and that the "minimum bundle of features" can only account for that to some degree. You can always find a model here and there in which Apple has a competetive offering, but overall they don't compete in most of the market for PCs, and in the high-end they quickly outpace the cost of an x86 PC.