Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sat 14th Sep 2002 22:44 UTC
SuSE, openSUSE From SuSE Linux 8.1 on, YaST2 comes with a new, powerful package manager. It supersedes the classic YaST2 single package selection and integrates the YaST Online Update (YOU) and post-installation add-on selection at the same time. It lays the foundation for supporting multiple installation sources like a traditional set of SuSE CDs, add-on product CDs, patch CDs, FTP servers or even local directories - all of which may contain software packages to install. Specially optimized versions were implemented for both graphical user interface (the YaST2 Qt UI) or text interface (the YaST2 NCurses UI), providing each type of user with the tool that best fits his needs. Read more for the commentary.
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rant (setup.exe, apt, cruft, etc.)
by yenar on Sun 15th Sep 2002 16:41 UTC

Ever tried to uninstall windoze app *cleanly*? I run NT 4.0 atm, with opened regedit... Looking at

What the hell is softwrap? Where it came from? MicroQuill SmartHeap? Never heard of that one. Guess, what is in C:/WINNT/SYSTEM? And why it is 230MB large? Mostly dll, ocx and don't know what files are there. Winnt dir is 443MB.

Taking a look at Win2000 machine 2 meters behind me. Oh, system32 is 580MB large, in task manager there is process called wSYOfQmF. What the hell it is and where it is coming from? No idea. But i suspect it is responsible for that IE windows popping up occsasionally with some casino ads. I'd bet that the software it came with packed as free bonus is long gone. Winnt dir is 1250MB.

The systray is full of sh*t... The Win2000 is czech version, but there is "accessories" folder in start menu containing one entry: "Address Book". Same on NT4 machine.

One more thing: The start menu is almost unusable. Which idiot came with idea to sort by supplier? I'd like to have all html editors in one folder. "What? You must be crazy... that is very hard to use and could confuse Joe User seriously".

Could anyone having mostly clean NT4 or 2000 install with some standard software provide corresponding directory sizes, please? I'd like to compare these ;) .

In contrast: my Debian box (running KDE 3.1 cvs by the way) has nice uncluttered menus. No cruft all over the place. I like experimenting: i have XINE from w/o problems (it even registered within menu *in the right place*). Know valgrind? I debianized it in ~5 minutes (had only source tarball). Still, there is no cruft on my box. There are old configs laying, but i could easily purge them if i wanted to. No problem. And they are registered as such, at least. I don't speak about apt-get install/upgrade/dist-upgrade, others did. But i'd like to point out nice tool: aptitude. It is about 10 times easier to use than average setup.exe ;) .

-- Setup.exe install procedure:
google for app type (better to skip type sites imho)
try to filter out something usable
after half hour download two or three utilities that seem appropriate for your task
install some of it
don't like it? pray that it has uninstall
has it? cool, run it; or better reinstall windoze ;)
ok you found something usable... but its shareware!
pay 30USD
wait few days
now you can use your software (and actually save/print/whatever your work)

They don't support your WinXY? Try to ask... There is some (not large though) chance are that developer will add suport for your os. It complains about missing dll? Try another software.

-- apt-get install procedure:
apt-cache search kind_of_app
apt-get install <package name>
Found nothing? add unstable to sources.list, apt-get update and try again. Still unlucky? Try They will probably provide debs. No? Don't panic! Try to kindly ask them if they could provide debs. Or file RFP bug on wnpp.
Tried something and didn't like it?
apt-get remove <bad ugly software> --purge
Try with other software.

I must admit, setting up hardware in Debian is bit too much for a Joe User but that will improve substantialy with rise of debian-installer. And there are still distros that actually ARE targeted at simple-minded users (unlike Debian).

yenar (happy debian user)

PS: My sister never used computer seriously (she's a sort of joe user), but she is happy with KDE and KWord 1.2 when she needs to write something. She claims that she likes it more than Windows ;) . I run unstable KWord (from CVS head), but she tells me (i don't trust her) that it never crashed on her... Strange.