Genesi has announced a new product this weekend. “The Genesi Home Media and Communication System is built on the PegasosPPC platform, utilising the Freescale G4 processor for outstanding media performance. Enclosed in a fully aluminium case which will fit in with your existing Hi-Fi amplifier or TV, and featuring a VFD status display under mirrored acrylic glass.” Software-wise, the machine will only feature open-source software. Genesi also made the EFIKA 5K2 available.
The fact that this runs all open source software makes this a very attractive PVR solution to me. The system apparently contains no fans, can hold terrabytes of SATA-based storage, comes with working 802.11g, … Genesi is definitly building some very cool products nowadays
..but $2500?! no, thank you. the price limit in this category should be $500/500EUR.
You can still build your own using the Open Desktop Workstation, which is only $799. They even have a program where they lease you a machine for $29/month, and they give them away for free to Open Source developers.
http://www.pegasosppc.com/freeworkstation.php
It’s not free. It requires a 36 month “service contract,” at $29.95 per month. Oh, my mistake, that’s “free” as in GPL.
Add up the cost of the components yourself. I think the point is you can also buy just the base board and build one yourself. I wonder if they will release the software when they release the Pegasos design. There are many people who will pay this much for a system with this full set of functionality. Been to a store that sell Home Entertainment devides lately?
The software is just MythTV.
Agreed. The price is nothing short of staggering.
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I must say I’m quite impressed by this device. It looks like a completely open solution; not only software-wise, but also hardware-wise.
The only setback is the price. I find it quite sum of money, and I wonder how many people will shell out this amount for something from a rather unknown company (compared to Apple, Sony, JVC, etc.). I guess only time will tell.
—
Thom Holwerda
A decent enough system, but the price is absurd for the market. There are cheaper options out there for low/mid end markets, while the higher end users probably won’t give it a second look. As mentioned in a previous comment, the lack of a recognisable brand is also going to be a serious show-stopper for most people.
I really can’t see this selling until the price drops to something more reasonable.
The price is high because HMC System is produced single unit and not in mass.
Genesi is searching for a partner who could help in producing its media system in large numbers and drop costs and consequently this will drop prices too.
Sure a viable alternative is to ask Genesi to release specifications of hardware used in HMC System, and release at a reasonable price (119 euro seems to me an honest price) the special Altivec based Gentoo distribution, which collect all the software needed to run video, satellite features and HD recording…
I think this will elnlarge noteworthy the userbase, because price will drop at:
799 Euro (actual Price of Pegasos g4 -also available $29 monthly lease-)
plus
119 Euro (price of the special Linux distro -because the developers who collect and optimized all software need to be feeded-)
Total:
918 Euro
(And I remember you all Current price of top cost Windows Media Centers is 1200 Euro)
Then the user should only buy the video+HD VCR+satellite hardware, which price is constanly going down.
Ciao,
Raffaele
genesi have all these wonderfull expensive ideas… i remember a wonderful idea.. BEIA! I remember what happened to that too…
2500? esch. do genesi/b-plan do any kind of targeting? do they research an idea before announcing a really expensive product??
just wondering….
Hmmm … how about a mini mac G4 1.25Ghz with ATI Radeon, an external 300G firewire hard disk, Hauppauge myTV.PVR for much much much less money??
not to forget, you can run linux on that little devil too.
An anonymous dude wrote:
>>>
Hmmm … how about a mini mac G4 1.25Ghz with ATI Radeon, an external 300G firewire hard disk, Hauppauge myTV.PVR for much much much less money??
>>>
It is the “external” solution that makes it all ugly…
HMC System has standard Micro-ATX board and it can host all devices into a standard case…
Also if you buy standard Pegasos, standard SATA PCI card and HD, standard PCI TV card like Pinnacle or other, you can assemble a modern Media Center, and cheaper than Minimac…
(And you can assemble it all from both sides: under Linux and under Amiga-MorphOS also)
But if you assemble all devices, you will not integrate it all, so strictly and politely as Genesi realized with its modified version of Gentoo…
But also, for sure, Gentoo Linux software gurus, could work on a clone release of the HMC System media center working on a standard Pegasos, modifying existing Gentoo releases and colleting same software open Source, in order to realize a better and CHEAPER solution…
Ciao,
Raffaele
Hi Raffaele,
What do you mean by “Amiga-MorphOS”? I mean, what does anything Amiga have to do with this HMC System from Genesi?
An anonymous dude wrote:
> What do you mean by “Amiga-MorphOS”?
>I mean, what does anything Amiga have to do with this HMC System from Genesi?
Base for the HMC System is Pegasos II G4 motherboard.
Pegasos motherboard was born by hardware amiga engineers from bPlan (former Phase5).
Native OS on Pegasos was MorphOS, a modern microkernel quark OS which can made use AmigaOS API for retro-compatibility, so it obtained quickly and simply a large software base.
Due to its open nature, Pegasos is aimed to host various Operating Systems.
PPC Linux is well represented on Pegasos platform and decretate a certain success of it amongst Linux “tuxies”, and in professional Linux environments.
HMC System is an elegant mock-up made from:
1) a Pegasos motherboard
2) some hardware solutions on PCI expansion cards to mount audio 7.1, TV set, and HD recording features
3) a Linux distro (Gentoo) capable to drive the hardware multimedia peripherals and which uses the best available software for Linux like Myth-TV.
All software is then optimized by Genesi to create a good Media Center solution.
You could either assemble a similar MediaCenter solution with Pegasos using MorphOS instead of Linux, that’s it why I wrote about Amiga-MOS solution.
Sure then into MorphOS you must unfortunately deal with lack of some hardware drivers who needed to be written from scratch to support new expansion cards (like for example SATA PCI cards)… …or you are limited in using only almost “dated” hardware expansion cards which drivers are already available under MorphOS.
It is only a matter of available drivers capable to support lots of hardware solutions which keeps alive existing differences with MorphOS and Linux (or Windows), and made Linux more suitable than MorphOS in creating a MediaCenter based on Pegasos machines.
To give you an example of the situation, think about the fact that MorphOS has good support and 2D and 3D drivers for ATI Radeon 9250 graphic card, but, if I remember well, there are actually no drivers at all for 7.1 dolby surround audio cards under MOS, neither there are any drivers for SATA PCI expansion cards, which will allow use of SATA devices (and SATA HDDs sure could help a lot end users in assembling a Media Center solution all by themselves).
Luckily, the software situation (MorphOS side) is sparkling and moving good. New programs are released almost every day, so software solutions to realize a Media Center (even a decent clone of it) are already available or will be available soon.
Ciao,
Raffaele
Not necessarily new news, but check <a href=”http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html“>this</a>… out. Mac minis are already a pretty good deal and this may steal the show. Sounds pretty exciting if you ask me.
Re: Mac Mini. Actually I did the math and guess what:
Mac Mini with airport and superdrive $699
Dual TV tuner $650
7.1 audio system $150
500G Hard drive $400
512M ram memory extension $100
So, for only $2000 you have a Mac OS X based PVR system. That system doesn’t come completely passively cooled, and you have a spiderweb of cables connecting everything together. Thing is, Apple sells millions of units each quarter and obviously gets different prices. Plus, the Genesi solution is completely open source. I’d say this is a pretty competitive offer, given all the features Genesi offers.
An anonymous person wrote:
>>>
Actually I did the math and guess what:
Mac Mini with airport and superdrive $699
Dual TV tuner $650
7.1 audio system $150
500G Hard drive $400
512M ram memory extension $100
So, for only $2000 you have a Mac OS X based PVR system. That system doesn’t come completely passively cooled, and you have a spiderweb of cables connecting everything together.
>>>
Cables hanging all around are only a minor problem, but it is annoying.
But let’s perform same considerations of assembling by yourself Pegasos PVR media center system opposite to Minimac competitor.
Also Take a look at this concept product (Pegasos PPC G4 based) by Directron and Genesi:
http://www.ppcnux.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5229
[QUOTE]
(google translated from german)
The Genesi Home theatre in the attractive “HiFi” Design uses the proven Pegasos II G4 board as basis.
It offers (provisional specifications):
* Gigahertz PPC CCU with AltiVec
* Dual TV dual-TV-Tuner for picture in picture representation or simultaneous admission, while other programs can be looked at
* Fast dual Layer Dvd+/ r(w) burners
* 400GB SATA hp with 8MB Cache
* 1GB DDR400 CL2,5 RAM
* 24Bit THX certified 7.1-Kanal sound map with 108dB signal/signal-to-noise ratio
* 256MB Radeon 9250 diagram map with Dvi i, VGA and s-video exits
* 1 GBit and 100 MBit Ethernet interfaces
* 1 free SATA channel with RAID support – e.g. for external drive assemblies without speed losses
* 3 Firewire of connections
* Bluetooth support
* Vacuum fluorescence announcement and remote maintenance
[…]
An end price was not determined yet, could amount to however with that above-mentioned configuration around the 1600EUR. Further details are to be published after the FTF fair.
[/QUOTE]
Coming back to the topic of assembling Pegasos PVR system all hand-made, then I calculated this all by myself:
Actually Pegasos II G4 sold by Vesalia.de is 662.30 Euro/775 US$ *All Included*:
[Check for Pegasos II System 2019-2-BK (be careful and seek for “2019-***2***-BK” product]
It is assembled with this hardware:
Pegasos II G4/1 GHz in black Micro 2019 Case, 80 GB HDD (MorphOS/Superbundle & Debian GNU/Linux installed), UDMA cable, DVD drive, 512 MB RAM, Radeon 9250SE (128 MB, DVI/VGA/S-Video)
[512 MB of ram are already included]
+ Videocard
Hauppage Win TV Nova T = 86 Euro/100 US$
(Attention: I have no infos of this hardware working but it is supported by PPC Linux, so it should work fine with PPC Linux version for Pegasos)
+ Audio card:
M audio Nova 5.1 = 105 Euro/123 US$
(Attention: I have no infos of this hardware working but it is supported by PPC Linux, so it should work fine with PPC Linux version for Pegasos)
+ SATA PCI card:
Maxtor Sata 150/PCI = 60 Euro/70 US$
or
Adaptec – 1210s serial ata raid = 60 Euro//0 US$
(Attention: I have no infos of this hardware working but it -SHOULD- be supported fairly by PPC Linux, so it should work fine with PPC Linux version for Pegasos)
+
Seagate – Hd 300 gb_sata 150_7200 rpm_8 = 151 Euro/177 US$
+
Gentoo Linux for free
Total will be: 1064,30 Euro/1245 US$
And it will be all fitted into standard case, leaving no cables hanging around…
Consider the fact that I choose only hardware of which I heard it works with PPC linux (this is why I considerated only 5.1 audio card and TV card with only one tuner).
Remember also that, if you build this hardware configuration assembling it by yourself, then it is up to you to install Gentoo Linux from scratch and tune-up it… And then also to install Myth-TV.
Infrared interface is also needed but I leave you the joy of calculate how much it costs…
Ciao,
Raffaele
A $2000 mac mini PVR???!!! Methinks not. By the looks of it, the mac mini home theater version/flavor would still be in the ballpark of… half that ridiculous number you came up with. The link and various other sites seem to forecast an affordable home theater solution/concept built into the already affordable mac mini (larger HD, TV tuner, remote, Front Row, etc.) in the very near future, all without cables dangling. And I don’t think your average couch potato who just wants to record family guy reruns will give a snot if it’s “completely open source.”
yea its pricy but its nice to see a retail product showcasing just what can be done with alternative OS’s.
Until I saw the Marvell logo. That clearly elliminates the “High-class + Powerful” class, in which they’re trying to associate themselves….
> Until I saw the Marvell logo. That clearly elliminates the “High-class + Powerful” class, in which they’re trying to associate themselves….
What’s wrong with Marvell ?
A lot. Ever tried to get a Shuttle XPC with onboard Marvell Yukon Gigabit Ethernet to work properly with Windows XP? I got one for my clients and boy, was that a mistake. I for one will never come close to a product with a Marvell chip. In fact, I’ll probably stay clear of Shuttle just for the extremely poor experience I’ve had.
As always, YMMV, but I prefer to stay on the safe side and Marvell isn’t on it.
“A lot. Ever tried to get a Shuttle XPC with onboard Marvell Yukon Gigabit Ethernet to work properly with Windows XP?”
Your fault to use WinXP ;-). Try the Marvell Discovery II with Linux – there absolutely are *NO* problems reported.
A few questions remain:
1. What’s the form factor?
2. Is that a standard ATX power supply? Do all ATX power supplies reliably power such a low-watt device?
3. Where can I find a case that fits?
4. When will they start selling single piece, not in batches of 50 items?
Mr Jonas Kirilla wrote:
>>>
A few questions remain:
1. What’s the form factor?
>>>
I don’t know if it efika form factor is standard or not, but hope these infos can help you:
A) http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=1172
[quote]
The EFIKA is already smaller than miniITX and
nanoITX, and the final board will be smaller still..
— Matt Sealey, Genesi (Manager, Developer Relations)
[/quote]
B) Here are Freescale and other already existing evaluation boards based on MPC 5200 by other firms:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC5…
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=Lite…
Take a look for example at:
http://www.embeddedplanet.com/products/ep5200.asp?srch=1
Form factor for this evaluation board is: 7.4 x 4.375 inches
C) Also take a look at these photos and make measuers calculation by your own judging from PCI/AGP connector and input-output connectors (compare it also with the other Freescale motherboards I just shown to you):
http://www.pegasosppc.com/efika.php
http://images.pegasosppc.com/pegasosppc/splash_efika.jpg
http://images.pegasosppc.com/pegasosppc/efika_art.jpg
>>>
2. Is that a standard ATX power supply? Do all ATX power supplies reliably power such a low-watt device?
>>>
Sorry dunno… But I think ATX power supplies could easily manage AGP onboard and ATA peripherals, but hardly the CPU itself.
I think that a power supply for VIA-EPIA motherboards or similar is needed.
Take a look at mini-itx.com site.
http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10
Also it is possible that CPU is built to accept standard voltage by ATX supply, or also that a simple adapter is needed to work with standard power supplies, or even it is sold included with Efika motherboard, but these of mine are only speculations.
>>>
3. Where can I find a case that fits?
>>>
Hope that at mini-itx site (online store mini-case section) you could find something useful:
http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=3
>>>
4. When will they start selling single piece, not in batches of 50 items?
>>>
First ask your local (or nearest) Amiga-Pegasos dealer for single item availability.
Online dealers will be the first who will buy “50 items stocks” and then will resell it “single” to end user.
Then check from time to time genesippc store site, to verify availability of Efika sold in single item.
Ciao,
Raffaele
Wishlist: standard form factor, on-board graphics. I suppose SATA support would be pushing it?
Perhaps also a Marvell Discovery III-based Pegasos 3?
Anyway, thanks Raffaele!
Mr. Jonas Kirilla wrote:
>Wishlist: standard form factor, on-board graphics.
>I suppose SATA support would be pushing it?
1) Standard? form factor…??? UHM…
I think that Efika launched a brand NEW form factor…
It will be a standard reference for its class of products if Efika will take place.
2) On-board graphics are included into 4U2 mini motherboard yet to come.
It is the same of Efika but less expandable, and it should cost only 99 Euro.
But are you sure you desire a motherboard which graphics could not be expanded?
3) Sata? It is a bonus actually… 😉
> Perhaps also a Marvell Discovery III-based Pegasos 3?
HPC (High Performance Computer) I & II made by Freescale and adapted by Genesi to support their Open Firmware (like in Pegasos) had already been tested.
They support Marvell III and Tundra TS-108 northbridges.
But these are Freescale products, high priced evaluation boards, and seems that Freescale are not interested anymore in desktop market.
I hope Genesi could buy hardware designs of these machines.
> Anyway, thanks Raffaele!
My pleasure.
Ciao,
Raffaele
P.S.: Take also a look at ACK Power Vixxen motherboard.
It is a double motherboard. It could be used as Amiga1200 expansion card, and also as STAND ALONE PRODUCT.
It has same MPC 5200 PPC CPU, and features 512 MB of ram (Efika will stop at 128).
It costs 299 Euro, BUT with AmigaOS4.0 OS included. So it colud be sold ALONE at lesser price.
It has a major flaw. It uses only one mini-pci slot for expansions (no standard PCI and no standard AGP as featured by Efika).
Also Efika it is already here. ACK Power Vixxen it is yet to come.
Info here on OS-News:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=12840
Original news:
http://safir.amigaos.se/article_ack_eng.html
“1) Standard? form factor…??? UHM…
I think that Efika launched a brand NEW form factor… ”
Do you realize how hard it is finding a case that fits a board of a format that no one else uses?
(Google for an EBX case that fits a board with connectors on all 4 sides, and then try to find a reseller.)
Even “evaluation boards” are usually made in standard form factors (ATX, etc) so you have a decent chance of finding a case that fits, or at least something to mount it on, with stand-offs in the right places.
“4. When will they start selling single piece, not in batches of 50 items?”
I guess Genesi itself won’t start, but check out the most famous MorphOS/Amiga sellers (f.ex. Vesalia (www.vesalia.de – Germany) or ggs data (http://www.ggsdata.se/ – Sweden)) I guess they will stock that thing soon. Both deliver worldwide.
http://www.genesippc.com/homemedia.php?page=2
Nothing to see here.. move along.
Most “PVR” boxes from stores do not offer certain functionality and can be hard to update or add new features. With the Home Media and Communication System, there is no subscription charge every month, the features are expandable and upgradable by the user and not forced by the manufacturer, and we at Genesi actively encourage new solutions.
I find this hilarious, besides being an outright lie. The $2500 price is your subscription charge. A basic cable box will have more functionality off the bat, and at a cheaper price. What paytv providers does Genesi work with? Oh wait.. none. What guide providers do they work with? None. No paytv service provider would touch a $2500 system with a 10ft pole.
‘Not forced by the manufacturer’ is just a poor cop-out to say ‘we can’t get any paytv or service providers to partner with us’.
nifty product, seems stuck inbetween a full blown pc most of us already have, and the weak, non user definable mass produced Balls-Mart product. I have to wonder about the price point, in that it would take an enthusiast to even consider buying such a device, and that enthusiast is likely to just add some components to their PC at a lesser price, at least $1000 less, since they already have the pc.
Still, it’s good to see genesi putting out this device, I hope they add forums and ideas to make it more functional with myth tv and also to drop the price so one does not mind buying it additionally to the pc.
“Plus, the Genesi solution is completely open source.”
When Apple used PowerPC the PowerPC was an IBM proprietary platform. Now PowerPC is open? Why? What’s different?
PS DON’T SAY ABOUT POWER.ORG!!! Power.org there was even when Apple used PowerPC!
>
>”Plus, the Genesi solution is completely open source.”
>
>When Apple used PowerPC the PowerPC was an IBM proprietary platform.
>Now PowerPC is open? Why? What’s different?
Are you kidding?
It is quite plain and clear that PowerPC CPU are trademarked…
And, if you think you made some humor, why you considered ***only*** the CPU of Pegasos and not SATA hard disk built in it, dual TV tuner card, etc…
Are they also Open Source? Obviously not!
When we talk about Open Source Solution we are talking about designs of Pegasos platform that it’s been declared they are about to be released Open Source…
We talk of Gentoo Linux PPC distro used in it…
And we talk about software solutions used in it…
It is all… …Open Source… you know it and know how it works.