The XPde Team released XPde 0.5.1, the release that includes a Start Menu and fixes.
XPDE 0.5.1 Released
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I still think this is one of the scariest projects to grace Linux. It’s just a grenade waiting to detonate. Either Microsoft hasn’t heard of this project, or they have bigger fish to fry.
My mind is still boggling that some Linux folks want to emulate the (IMHO ugly) windows XP interface pixel by pixel.
The more interesting bit is the legal paper they offer on their page.
It argues that Microsoft and Borland were allowed to clone Lotus 1-2-3, thus they are allowed to clone the XP desktop,
if I read it correctly.
Can’t believe that they will have it that easy.
Regards,
Marc
but not necessary. When I was first starting to use Linux, I looked at some of the earlier versions of XPde because it was familure to me coming from XP. And that was good since that is the goal of the XPde developement team.
However, Linux with KDE 3.3 is WAY better looking than the XP theme, and using that look IMO would be taking five to ten steps back. I haven’t looked into it for awhile, but if I remember right, I did look at 0.5 and it was ok. Hopefully, by time they get to 1.0 the project might still have some relevance but I fear they are doing a lot of work for nothing.
With the state of KDE, Gnome, OS X, and the eventual Longhorn, XP as it is looks really dated and primitive. Why would you want that? Being familure is the only lure.
….i think its cool just because it is something diferent and kinda neet
1. Some people actually like the way XP looks
2. Newbies will have an easier time getting used to Linux
3. Less training costs for companies that want to switch to linux
I think xpde is a cool project. I would probably never use it as my main desktop, but I can see the need for it. It is a bit of a niche project, but cool none the less.
There will undoubtable be people here who just “don’t get it”. But ya know, I never understood the need for GNOME either, especially after Qt was GPL’d.
Aesthetics are extremely subjective. You have individuals who will vehemently argue that Window Maker is the greatest thing since microwave popcorn.
Then there are people who will describe in excrutiating detail the stomach ache they experience just from looking a Macintosh’s Aqua.
To Microsoft’s credit, Windows XP does have some nice looking themes. I especially like the greenlike version of their Luna theme(what’s it called again?). I still think Windows’ usability is upsetting. GNOME has a more consistent interface, better keybindings, better keyboard navigation and a better window manager.
Just wanted to point to you not to judge a book by its cover. Many of us can deal with ugly themes or absense of eyecandy. What I can’t stand, for example, is when I can’t function in a desktop environment without a mouse. OS X anyone?
Yes, I have just started a flamewar, crucify me!
“What I can’t stand, for example, is when I can’t function in a desktop environment without a mouse. OS X anyone? ”
Just a side note, I have recently switched to Apple in my home office.
I find it terribly hard to use Excel now because I cannot navigate through the menus with the keyboard.
Sure I can program shortkeys but that’s not the same. IE on my windows machine I can set the autofilter by doing alt+D+F+F
Does anyone know of such a utility for OSX that allows me to navigate menu via keyboard?
The mous is just a loss of time for me in Excel.
Thanks!
People here always talk about Linux being the incarnation of freedom to choose.
Let the people judge by themselves if this is worth it or not, if it isn’t then no one will use it.
No need to act like censorship.
There will undoubtable be people here who just “don’t get it”. But ya know, I never understood the need for GNOME either, especially after Qt was GPL’d.
I never understood people like you. Writing bullshit in public and acting smart.
Few reasons why there is a need for GTK and GNOME.
1. QT is GPL’ed and does not allow LGPL’ed use of libraries. There’s either write GPL software or write Commercial software. In second case you NEED to buy development license from Trolltech which is not even near to cheap.
2. Differences are the only thing that spawns competition… and with it PROGRESS
3. All GTK and GNOME libraries are double licensed GPL, LGPL. This enables you to link them in whatever license you need for your software. You don’t need to buy license
4. Commercial software has few attractions for developers (shareware), and initial cost can mean a lot to these developers
5. People like you can get informed, when listen to people who know THE reasons. People like you now understand why there’s need for GNOME.
QT Pricing:
http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/pricing.html
QT Licensing:
GPL
http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/gpl.html
QPL – The Qt Free Edition is distributed under the Q Public License (QPL). It allows free use of Qt Free Edition for running software developed by others, and free use of Qt Free Edition for development of free/Open Source software.
Note that the Qt/Embedded Free Edition is not distributed under the QPL, but under the GNU General Public License (GPL).
For development non-free/proprietary software, the Qt Professional Edition is available. It has a normal commercial library license, with none of the special restrictions of the QPL or the GPL.
http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/license.html
Qt Commercial License Agreement
…
Maybe someone from KDE team could explain how to write commercial KDE application, at least if I got something wrong.
Somebody just realised that the moderation is disabled.
[could not resist]
[joke]Did I ???? [/joke]
[/could not resist]
I’m currently not in front of my mac, but somewhere on your control panel (keyboard or accessibility IIRC) there is a checkbox “keyboard navigation” – check it and you should feel right at home. While you are there check out the predefined shortcuts…
Maybe someone from KDE team could explain how to write commercial KDE application, at least if I got something wrong.
—
very simple. write a application and sell it if you can. if you want to write a proprietary application you will have to buy a license from trolltech
You can even write closed source stuff if you restrict yourself to using kdelibs only (LGPL, right?).
@Anonymous (IP: 61.95.184.—)
So,… in basics. What’s your point? Nonsense????
@roman
How can you avoid Qt in this case? Qt is not LGPL and anything linked against GPL becomes GPL. In this case kdelibs is GPL. Ok, I admit that I don’t know all the facts and Trolltech-KDE relationship. But common sense tells me that if there wasn’t any exception for KDE, then there’s no possibility to your idea. I would appreciate if you know more about it and post some link.
Here is a good thread about similiar problem
http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/monodevelop-list/2004-July/…
Unfortunatelly, #develop guys are right here. At least if you ask me.
It allows the non sense of installing a new desktop OS without taking advantage of the difference. Here we use XP with a NT4 look and feel and behaviour.
Nonsensical IT has a great future.
You guys DO know that you can use a different mouse on your Mac right? I use a Microsoft Optical Intellimouse and OSX plays nicely with it’s 5 buttons and scroll wheel. MS even has drivers available for OSX which makes it very customizable.
We are talking about using the OS without a mouse, just keyboard.
Not sure to whom your answer was intended..
Most of us know that OSX supports Shotcut keys and multi-button mice.
However getting your hand of the keyboard is a loss of time.
80% of my working time is done fomr the keyboard. THe mouse is used just to move boxes, select colors and the like.
I didn’t care much about this project untill I got a reasonable win user in front of a clean, well arranged, gnome applications menu and what I got as a reply was: “I don’t get it…”
it was like his brain had shut down only because there was an “Applications” button instead of a “Start” button. Now I look at xpde with a new perspective.
I actually kind of like the “classic” Windows XP Theme/the Windows 2000 theme. It’s simple. I despise Luna, though. Not sure if I’d ever use XPDE as my full time desktop, but it might work one day to get the parents over to Linux.
@People dicussing licensing…
Qt is licensed GPL/Commercial
KDElibs is licensed LGPL
If you wrote a closed source application you must purchase the commercial Qt license, but since KDElibs are LGPL, your program can be closed source.
Why do people make this so hard when it’s not? And I’m a GNOME user!
> You can even write closed source stuff if you restrict
> yourself to using kdelibs only (LGPL, right?).
If your app uses kdelibs without Qt, sure. But if you use a KDE GUI component that uses Qt (as most people do), then you have two choices:
1) use GPLed Qt. In that case, your app has to be GPLed because you’re linking with LGPL (KDElibs) + GPL (Qt).
2) use Commercial Qt and pay for it. In that case, your app can remain commercial since it’s okay to link commercial apps with LGPL and commercial Qt and it’s okay to link commercial Qt with LGPL.
BTW, this is off-topic since XPDE is just a window manager, not an environment like GNOME and KDE so it doesn’t have to worry about 3rd party apps.
It’s a top idea. Not for seasoned users but a great tool to ween Windows users away from the dark side. I can see a great many girlfriends/family and non-technical/non-intuitive people becoming intruduced and reliant on Linux. Once they are hooked then show them the good stuff – KDE/Gnome/XFCE whatever….
I think XPde had taskmgr,regedit,and lots of others.
Question:
XPDE 0.5.1 is GTK or QT based?
Or none?
Nwver mind, He is using Kylix, so must be QT.
Does anyone know if XPDE implements any of the freedesktop.org specifications or plans to do it?
Especially things like window manager specification or system tray protocol
It’s a great idea. I didn’t check through to see whether XPde also includes IE themes, etc. for Mozilla and the like but if it does then it’d make a pretty good swipe at mom and pop migrators who find Linux…alienating. And there are alot of them out there. Like the 90% of the computer using population Linux hasn’t already converted
Anyways, not something I would use but I don’t find it appalling in look. Just…different.
1. QT is GPL’ed and does not allow LGPL’ed use of libraries. There’s either write GPL software or write Commercial software.
Hmmm, but we’re talking about an entire desktop here, not a library, so where’s the need for the LGPL?
Commercial software has few attractions for developers
I’m willing to bet that most of the software being developed in the world on any platform is commercial.
I can see the merits of being able to have an instantly familiar desktop for Linux newbies, but it ruins a lot of the experience of using a new OS. I’d never use it, and I’d never recommend it to anyone else. Some departments trying to move over to Linux might like it, though… Personally, I can’t see what is so hard about using KDE or GNOME, or even XFce. They are all self-explanitory and have very user-friendly configuration tools.
@roman
How can you avoid Qt in this case? Qt is not LGPL and anything linked against GPL becomes GPL.
You have to be very careful how you put things. Nothing becomes GPLed by linking to GPLed code. For code to be licenced as GPLed, the rightful owner of the code must issue such licence. What happens if you link your non GPLed code with GPLed code is that you break the licence agreement for the part of the that is GPLed. This means that you can’t legally distribute the combined software product until you have found some way to replace the GPLed parts. However nobody can force you to reveal your part source code.
Serious question here..
what happens if trolltech went under, and only the GPL liscensed Qt remained. does this mean that any company who used to license against commericial Qt can only get the advantages from the forked Qt by switching their liscense to GPL, since it would require all the Qt developers to agree on a LGPL or BSD licensed version of Qt, would it not?
it seems like, to me, in light of this that a LGPL Gnome/GTK library is a lot safer in the end.
When you are selling an old computer and want to leave it on as a demo having something that looks like windows is a plus.
You wouldn’t want to pirate windows by installing it without a license.
what happens if trolltech went under, and only the GPL liscensed Qt remained.
—
check this
http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php#updated_agreem…
..sorry i just dont get it.. there are so,so,so so many ways of emulating the winexperience that this is a waste…. How about just starting up icewm.. with one of .. i dunno.. four gajillion winxp themes.. editing some over the counter wallpaper to make it look like never never land.. and calling it a day??
In the case of Trolltech being bought out or going out of business, QT would be immedatly released under a BSD license.
There is a Knoppix based Live CD with XPDE available here: http://www.overclockix.octeams.com/Barnix/ISO%20Images/
Sure Microsoft or Apple have bigger things to worry about than if someone tries to make some Linux window manager look like Mac OS X or Windows XP. Especially the (rather mediocre, IMHO) XP looks don’t seem like so precious a crown jewl that Microsoft should be guarding very jealously. Apple might be more worried about the MacOS X/Aqua clones because Apple has put so much effort and their resources into developing that high level of aesthethics and usability.
Besides, and as far as I know, XPDE lacks LOTS of WinXP functionality. It is the functionality that matters to potential users coming from Windows background, not so much some basic looks (that poeple often like to change anyway).
Also, isn’t it also just good free advertising to both Microsoft and Apple if so many people who use other OSs are copying the looks of their operating systems?
You can navigate using only the keyboard in OS X. Open up Preferences>Keyboard & Mouse, click on the Keyboard Shortcuts tab and enable Full Keyboard Access.
You can now navigate through menus much like you would in Windows. Hit Ctrl-F2 and that opens up the Apple menu. You can now use the arrow keys to move up or down or move to adjacent menus. Hit Ctrl-F3 and that highlights Finder in the Dock. You can now navigate the dock using the arrow keys. You can also tab through widgets in a window.
The idea is nice but falls short. If the purpose of this project (and I am not sure if it is, don’t feel like reading it if there is one at the website) is to make the transition less painful for novice computer users who only know Windows and expect to use a computer for typing and what have you than this idea will not fly. There must be some sort of Application Integration! The applications you launch must look and behave like this Window Manager. I know there has lately been some knit picking about how Windows and OS X have “inconsistencies” i.e. iApps and their textured windows in OS X, Cocoa/Carbon, etc… but you see these things don’t stick out like a sore thumb compared to running an Internet Browser written in GTK+, a word processing application in QT and some statistical app with a front end in TK, the widgets look different, the menus might not follow a consistant layout, etc, doing this is just plain fugly and annoying. Without a Desktop Environment like Gnome or KDE, Windows converts will get no where, screaming and crying like a hungry toddler all the way back to their familiar start menu on Windows. Not everyone is an über geek, if you want to attract people who would convert in a heart beat except for the learning curve and those such as myself who like looking at a visually appealing GUI where all applications follow one UI guideline then this will have to happen in order to gain a larger userbase. With that said X11 Desktop Environments have come a long way, I am really liking GTK+ Gnome with the Bluecurve Theme, actually looks really nice. Not to mention all the apps I’ve installed take on the appearance, with the acceptation of a few. I am at a loss why people are anal about people creating a WindowsXpesque Window Manager, for X11, X11 isn’t only used on a Linux OS. If it’s one thing we should all agree on is that Linux isn’t meant to be put in a box, it is many different things to many different people, we shouldn’t keep treating it as if it is a one distribution OS, which for some people is a concept in itself which is hard to fathom. And be aware, my suggestions stated here are not meant to be taken as what all Linux Distributions should be…simply I am stating what I think would be the best Linux Distribution for one who is anal about UI consistency, visual appeal, and ease of use in a sense that is familiar to windows migrators. Just my 2¢
I have a stubborn friend who won’t use Linux full time because it doesn’t look like XP. “XP looks better and is easier to use”. Alot of people are this way. For the ones that don’t game, and just do office clerical type work, they won’t know the difference.
This is a great idea!
My friend will use this, with a distro like Mandrake, SuSE or Linspire.
You think THIS is a scary project? You should check out the Linux Registry:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/registry/
there was a strip in that comic that had the only onsite windows guy (stef, marketing, go fig) go linux and xpde installed on his computer. cant find the strip tho…
PLEASE re-enable moderation. Somehow.
Basically, steal and don’t refuse to show. Are you SCO employee or what?
You can’t carefully select Qt out if you write desktop application. KDE is based on Qt. And every proprietary app wit Qt demands that Trolltech license is bought.
For me, GTK is way safer and cheaper.
while it’s not an issue to a lot of people, GTK also ensures portability of GPL’d code to win32 without needing X and Cygwin, Qt for win32 isn’t free or Free.
The site says the source is available, but I don’t see a link for it.
is choice, folks. If you don’t like the xpde software, don’t use it.
I agree with alot of the sentiments here. You can always slap a ‘XP’ theme on GNOME/KDE/*wm and make it a day. Hell it would be alot easier than firing up VIM and writing your DE from scratch, still one must respect these developers right to rebuild the wheel.
XPDE team, good luck and happy hacking :^).
I am using Gentoo with KDE, but I love this project. Not because I want to use it, nor do I like the XP look. But it just clones the interface so nicely you could rip a n00bz XP off disk and push Linux on it without him noticing, that gives me jiggles. It might actually be useful to convert some conservatives to free software, who knows. And if not that, atleast they got a high amplitude reputation wit’ that. Lol again
cya, that guiser
What I think is very peculiar is how the GNOME project now extolls the virtues of having LGPL libraries, so that non-free software can thrive on GNOME without additional cost. This seems to be considered a Good Thing(tm).
I can remember all the fracas when KDE first appeared as a project floating on top of a non-Free QT. The outcry from the Free Software purists was so loud that it could be heard on Mars. GNU/Linux could not have a Free desktop that depended on a non-Free toolkit.
A certain young man with initials M. de I. co-founded GNOME (GNU Object Model Environment) based on the GTK toolkit (borrowed from The GIMP). At the time it was said that KDE was an affront to the tennets of Free Software and GNOME as a GNU project would fix the non-Free issue.
Now several years later KDE is the pinnacle of Free Software by being wholly GPL’ed, QT and all. Now we hear that it is wrong to have GPL libraries, because they impede proprietary efforts to get a free ride, whilst stripping the supporters of Free Software from their hard earned cash (or trying to do so).
Proprietary Closed Source Software is the anti-thesis to Free Software. GNOME was supposed to be the banner Desktop Environment for Free Software. Listening to todays argumentation it sounds like GNOME has stopped being a Free Software project and has adopted the Open Source tennets wholesale.
I don’t mind GNOME being cheap for businesses. What I do object to is the apparent hypocrisy from the GNOME camp. First KDE was Desktop non-grata because it was not Free enough. Now the GNOME community tries to tar the KDE project for being TOO Free.
What is it people? Is KDE at fault for being totally Free Software like Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation promotes? Isn’t it what the GNOME camp has been yelling at KDE for years? That they had to be Free? Well, now they are Free and it still isn’t good enough. Maybe the GNOME Foundation could make a hostile takeover on Trolltech and thus release QT as BSD. KDE would then be as Free Software unfriendly as GNOME.
I really like this project.
I find emulating and cloning anything (even pooh)
kinda interesting