http://www.osnews.com/story/11041/Linux_And_Non_MS_OSes_-_Switching_To_Linux_Checklist Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:59:57 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I for one love the idea of an OS that's not MS nor Apple. The only problem though is after three years or more of messing around with Linux I'm tired of it. Specifically I'm tired of:
1) Fonts still suck, Linspire is the best here because of being able to buy fonts (which one wouldn't have to do in Win or Apple)

2) Printer support and other peripherals are still spotty requireing jumping through hoops to get to work and even then they never work quite right. Even more impossible to get to work through SAMBA. The problem is the new printers are dirt cheap and thus use subpar drivers as is the case with HP inkjets. Those printers are made to NOT work on a network, they want us to own a printer per computer instead. It can still be done on windows but via samba is spotty at best.

3) Still there is no standard media player for the 'net that's easy and legal. Linspire again wins out here because they have licensed the Quicktime and WMA codecs at least so one doesn't have to use crossover. For those who do use crossover getting that to work is an exercise in frustration too, both the normal crossover install and the bult in one in Xandros 3 crash when win media player, quicktime and a host of other built in programs are attempted to be installed.

It's all just become one big pain in the A$$ and even harder to even think about recommending to anyone else.

Since Apple is still not going to open their OS to let people (why not just restrict retail clone sales of?) build their own it looks like we're still stuck with MSFT monopoly. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I question the author's definition of ancient hardware. I have installed Linux on much weaker computers than the author has suggested, and it still runs great.

Of course, if your definition of Linux includes running KDE or GNOME, the story will be a bit different. Those two seem to drink memory like they just spent 15 days in the desert without water. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire is the best here because of being able to buy fonts
Oh yeah!

Don't you think ALTLinux is better because you can:
apt-get install ms-fonts-ttf

and more, there are another dozen of packages with fonts.

2) Printer support and other peripherals are still spotty requireing jumping through hoops to get to work and even then they never work quite right. Even more impossible to get to work through SAMBA.
Printer support was extremely easy for me; scanner is some tougher; samba is yes, PITA.

3) Still there is no standard media player for the 'net that's easy and legal.
I use MPlayer and amaroK and they are fully legal in my country. And yet to see file mplayer don't play. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This is an excelent checklist. I agreee completely with all points. If I should add anything to the list, it would be:

Networking:
Support for wireless cards is rather poor. Make sure your card is compatible and use the latest release of your distribution.

Free formats: Open source software are not always able to handle non-free file formats as expected. Commercial vendors often use closed formats that can't be easily used in a free software environment. While you'll be able to use your Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents out of the box, support for closed media formats such as Mp3, Windows Media, DivX and Quicktime might not be included in your distribution due to legal reasons. Partial support for such formats can be added by you after installation. The Free software environment encourages the use of open formats.

And Free software as a concept is something new users might want to look into for that extra motivation. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am not going to go into the dissertation as the previous poster. I will just say. I have tried just about every Linux distro I could get my hands on for years. I have not been satisfied with any of them. Yes, the cost is good. But I am willing to pay for a differnt OS, just not MS. So far, Zeta is working rather well for me. My hat is off to the people who poke and prod Linux into working well for them. I have better things to do with my time. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Reads as though it's written for a very general user group, which is good but below the complexity I'm comfortable with. Still, I appreciate any article like this as I'll have everything ready to fully replace my XP installation with Fedora 4 next week.

Thanks Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ppc is also supported by most of the distros that were named, but i don't know if there are any live cds for ppc. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As far time goes it takes as long if not longer to do a full Windows install. Especially considering a Windows install including online updates (on high speed Internet) and installing non-preinstalled programs. It can take a couple evenings if you have any type 3rd party software. I have spent almost equal amount time installing and configuring either. So yes it takes some time but thats true across the board.

MS Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? " Linspire again wins out here because they have licensed the Quicktime and WMA codecs "
yes linspire is a fantastic company, paying money for those codecs and charging you for them! sort of like - they work for M$ and sell M$ products....how wonderful is that!
Keep contributing to the monopoly......
Yea, buying something is always better!

So buy a decent printer, heck most any laser printer will usually work.... I mean if you buy those cheap lexmarks, well, there is a reason the ink cartridges keep getting smaller and smaller! (psst, they make money on ink not on drivers, innovation, quality) most of the "new" lexmarks are the old lexmarks with pretty grey plastic and new shape but it is the same old printer. Would you but a 86 ford escort if i put the new focus sheetmetal on it. No, i bet you would be highly irate i even tried that crap huh....

media player, i make sure my media is in a general format as well as my music and I NEVER have a problem.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This was an excellent little post.

Those are all the exact things I tell people when they ask me about Linux. Unfortunately when I made the switch, I had to learn every one of those lessons on my own the hard way.

Complaining aside, even when I had both the Win machine and the Lin machine running, I never really felt free or like a real "Linux user" until after I swore off Win, wiped Win off the hard drive, and installed the drive into my Lin machine to be set up as a /home partition to store all my personal files there in the /home directory. It was like I had quit smoking or lost 150 pounds...

One thing I would add to the article is that just by learning to use linux, I would postulate that you are forced you to become a more active computer user; the mystique of the magical computer is reduced to turn a computer into a tool you can understand and control to get the most use out of. It forces its user to ask "what do I want to do" and "how can I do that?", because you don't have the marketing people holding your hand and telling you you need this or that... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? imo there is still no good alternative when it comes to programming ide (that is comparable to microsoft's visual studio), or a comfortable debugger (i.e. numega's softice *) on linux, and that's the main cause i'm still on windows.

* don't tell me about linice, coz u have to be a kernel expert to run this thing, not everybody is Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i know, and you was born with your knowledge of visual studio ingrained and have been using it since you was out of the hospital right...
OOOOOOHHHHHHHH, you had to learn it? Really! Well learn some of the linux tools and then argue that there is no good alternative.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? mo there is still no good alternative when it comes to programming ide (that is comparable to microsoft's visual studio), or a comfortable debugger (i.e. numega's softice *) on linux, and that's the main cause i'm still on windows.
They are there, you simply is not used to them or is uncapable to work efficently on them.

Vim does wonders, i write a lot of perl scripts in it daily. And even for some C programming it is the choice.

I can make and compile and run a C program faster than you'll launch your VS.

As for debugger, I have not seen softice, but what's wrong with strace+gdb?
They solved every problem I threw on with them, and I lack strace each time I have problems with software on windows. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Printing certainly isn't a weak part for me.
I have an HP psc 2210xi all in one printer and no matter what I do it just wont work on windows. I checked the compatibility list and 950 was the highest driver I could get, I downloaded the 160mb file from HP, I used the CD that came with the printer, I have turned on and off every service I can possibly think of that might interfere. I follow directions on control panel for how to install USB printers and it simply will not work on windows. I'm sure there is a way but look how much work its taken so far.

On fedora core 4 I ran system-config-printer and chose the exact driver and it immediatly made a printpage. End of config on linux.

Also neither apple nore windows comes with all those codecs, they come with a couple but you still need to hunt down on the net where to get xvid, divx, qtime, win10 codec, etc. On fedora I type "yum install win32codecs" and it gives me all of those.

I'm not saying linux is better but just cause you have problems with something doesn't mean everyone does. As long as you pay attention to the hardware you buy, the hardware config is pretty darn good on linux. Its when you buy some e-machine or otherwise unknown bundled system that comes with strange hardware that you run into problems. I bought hardware I knew the manufactures atleast were aware of linux and make an effort to work with it and because of that everything works atleast as good on my linux box as my windows one. (except my Microsoft Natural keyboard *s*) it works just can't get these darn quicklaunch buttons to bind to stuff. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am so sick and tired of Windows with all its problems so I am using Linux now and it rocks!
Windows was just a pain in so many ways:

1.) I have to constantly use Awaware and Spybot to keep my system free of spyware otherwise it will become slow like a snail within a couple of days.

2.) Despite of using MacAffee and Norton Antivirus my Windows machine got infested with new or obscure viruses quite often and I lost important data several times including my dissertation where a brand new virus was on the backup.

3.) If you still use Internet Explorer you are lost anyways because anyone can take over your entire system remotely and not just through ActiveX.

4.) Windows has so many security holes and new ones are being discovered all the time that even all the annoying patching doesn't help much.

5.) Driver problems, missing .DLL files, and the all too familiar freezing and blue screen of death are things that are just unacceptable nowadays.

I thought I gave Linux a try, checked out and compared Fedora and a couple other distros, and after a smooth and swift install I am running Linux now. Everything worked right "out of the box", even my printer, and I haven't had one single problem.
The various software e.g. Firefox, Gimp, Gaim is awesome and I haven't even checked out all the thousands of free Linux applications there are. My system runs stable like a rock and life without viruses feels great. The fonts are truly beautiful and you can choose from hundreds of free ones.
Summary: Whether you are a newbie or an experienced Windows user Linux is ready for you today - give it a try! Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am sick of hearing that argument... do you people not know realise that linux can use ttf fonts in place of system fonts, and there is always a gui program to let you change them ?

I think the people who bitch about linux fonts are the sort of retards who go to the lengths of download/burn/install a distro of linux and look at the gui and decide they do not like linux.

Do you also run Windows XP with the default toys'r'us theme ?

get a life... and some taste

the article was a very well written article to give the laymen and idea of what installing linux will entail.. well done Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? and those damn personal menus too....
i guess you leave those on since it is default as well, huh! Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? no OS is what i would call 'ready to use' out of the box. i find the time it takes to hack through the MS registry and coax windows into a usable OS is far longer then apt-getting a debian desktop into usablility. mandrake is a good desktop OS also but again takes a lot of work to be the way i like it. Mac OS X is great, and i would prolly use it if i could afford a nice Mac. (well up untill the switch to intell that is) havent really dabled with the Beos or Zeta or amiga stuff but they look nice.

debian is by far the shortest route from install to desktop for me. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This depends somewhat on the Distro and the BIOS. Some Distro's bootable install CDs need 2.88 MB BIOS emulation (like Ubuntu). If your older h/w doesn't have that you're SOL. The RHEL clones and Fedora and SUSE don't have this requirement it seems.

Cheers Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Robocastie's comment about fonts is true. TTF fonts have hinting data embedded within them that was put there by the font artist; that is, instructions on how to slightly modify rendering at different sizes so that glyphs do not get distorted. AFAIK, this information and its use is proprietary to Apple. Microsoft pays license fees to include an engine in their operating system to use the hinting information, but FreeType does not do so for IP reasons (It is there in the code, but disabled; you can enable it through a configure switch IIRC).

It is not as simple as "apt-get ms-fonts-ttf" or "emerge corefonts"; the "real" problem with linux fonts is more subtle and doesn't seem to have any solution outside of just ignoring IP laws in the US.

The media player issue is another one that is tough to solve; its not that the standard net media player, which I'd argue is the mplayer plugin for gecko, is bad; its that it lacks codecs that aren't free. I much prefer the video player offerings in Linux to Windows; although I'm a xine guy, I've found that xine-lib and mplayer both feature codec packs that are extremely complete, lacking in frustrating xvid problems and in particular viruses or spyware that infest many windows codec packs. Media playing on Linux in general is a joy comparitively; with the exception of distributions that come (in my view inexplicably) without mp3 support.

I left the printer problem last, but I think the real problem with Linux hardware configuration is that it exists at two levels: at the "real" level where you require some set of drivers (either modules or built in) to exist in your kernel, and at the "abstract" level where you have various GUI configurator programs that ship with KDE or Gnome or are distro specific. Problems at the "real" level of course make anything you do at the "abstract" level completely worthless; and in order for hardware to be "working" (according to the user), it needs to be working at *both* levels.

Printers are a great example of this; your kernel might have the propper drivers for your USB interface or the ethernet card with which you will connect to the printer, and you might have CUPS installed with all of the propper communication protocols that it needs for your system to work, but if clicking file -> print doesn't work, none of the lower level stuff really matters.

So in order to get your periphirals to work you need to understand in quite intimate detail how to interface with them already: take the examples of a USB joypad, USB connected camera, and a PCMCIA wifi card. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...you can learn by reading some of the answers in this forum.

For instance: Don't you think ALTLinux is better because you can:
apt-get install ms-fonts-ttf

Yup, that's "better", if you can remember it. I can, incidentally, (usually I'm remembering "fink install ..." or "rpm install...") but a lot of other people (read: non-geeks) have better things to do with their time than remembering cryptic commands.

and more, there are another dozen of packages with fonts.

Presumably, all as easy to install as the one above.

I am sick of hearing that argument... do you people not know realise that linux can use ttf fonts in place of system fonts, and there is always a gui program to let you change them ?

Apparently not. Do you realize that some people have to learn things before they know them? it's not all born inside, and the attitude that people like you take will simply turn people off from Linux.

yes linspire is a fantastic company, paying money for those codecs and charging you for them!

Indeed, paying someone in exchange for the work they do! What a concept! I've never heard of it before! Who invented this horrible idea??? Man, I could get by life so much better if I didn't pay the waiter at a restaurant -- after all, food is necessary!

(Note: I used Linux at my former job, and plan to install it on a computer at my next job (start Aug. 15th). So don't call me a FUD-spreader or a Linux-hater just because I respect people you'd rather sneer at.)

For the guy who was unhappy with development environemnts: how does Eclipse compare with the ones you mentioned? I've not used either, but I hear good things about Eclipse, hence the question. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? well, both you're probably a native linux users (or maybe anonymous is a valium user), so you can't know what i'm talking about...

ilyak, when you compare vim to vs you sound nothing but funny. i don't want to write a 10-line program, for that i can use even "echo" for an editor. i want you to show me an ide that has autocompletion, intellisense and parameter hints. as for strace+gdb, well i'm afraid you can't compare them to softice. i saw both...

anonymous, for your information i didn't need to learn vs. it's so easy to use that everyone can handle it... and that's what i call a comfortable tool. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Good job! Thanks for providing it! Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's not just that the OSS desktop is free (and virus-free), simple and easy to use, bedrock stable, runs also on old hardware, and is progressing rapidly. As far as I'm concerned, it's all about the looks. My main reason to switch to the Open Source desktop was that it looks so much better than any of the commercial alternatives. No-one seems to use the default settings, everyone tweaks their desktop to match their personal taste. OSS desktops are just so unbelievably cool... :-)

http://www.lynucs.org/index.php?p=featured Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Let's see...With lots of time, persistence, guru-like ability to choose the perfect *nix the first time, kernel-level hacking skills and skin thick enough to argue with the people leaving the comments above, I could have something less than what I already run on my high, medium and low-end (500mHz, 320MB RAM, 12GB drive) machines -- i.e. XP. Wow! How can I resist? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Keep contributing to the monopoly......
Yea, buying something is always better!

If you don't own it, and the owner isn't handing it out freely, you should comply with how they want to distribute it or not use it.

Same goes with GPLed software; you can't distribute it to others if you don't comply with the GPL when asked to do so.

You can't deny Microsoft without denying others. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I would have expanded a bit on how useful (and friendly) the forums can be, big and small alike. Newbies need to be encouraged to first browse faqs and use the search tool and they will likely find an answer to most general problems.

Brian N Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Especially the "never give up" point.
At first, you'll be probably mad that something glitches but if you stand firm you'll be able to trash out Windows completely. I've done it myself and I'm enjoying my Ubuntu 5.04 experience.
This article is a must-read for every Windows user, even if they don't switch to Linux because it GIVES THE FACTS some of which are understood the hard way. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Fair enough unbiased article. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ilyak, when you compare vim to vs you sound nothing but funny. i don't want to write a 10-line program, for that i can use even "echo" for an editor. i want you to show me an ide that has autocompletion, intellisense and parameter hints. as for strace+gdb, well i'm afraid you can't compare them to softice. i saw both...

Just to squash some misinformation here, I pretty much do all my development in ViM. The "basic" ViM is just an editor, sure, but a quick visit to www.vim.org, choose what scripts you'd like to install, and viola! you have the IDE you've always wanted, nothing more, nothing less. It's best not to imply that "ViM is a joke compared to VS!" ... besides the things you mentioned, I can, for e.g., query/execute SQL against DBs, w/o leaving the editor pane i'm in, as well as many other things.

However, ViM is not for everyone. Nor is EMACS. (Although both can do what you described). Some new Linux-coming-from-Windows devs would likely prefer KDevelop, which has nice features, and you get to click the mouse over all the icons you want.

Also strace and gdb aren't themselves each replacements for softice (i've never used softice, just now reviewed it online). GDB + DDD (or just KDevelop), maybe. But strace and gdb, and many, many other tools do offer the same features. Some people, like you it seems, like to have all "programming" and all "debugging" in one application each. Others prefer one-off tools for any particular task.

What's *easier* is what works best for whatever purpose or task you have at hand.

anonymous, for your information i didn't need to learn vs. it's so easy to use that everyone can handle it... and that's what i call a comfortable tool.

You may feel the VS really is the easiest and best all around IDE -- but *you did have to learn things to use it*. I know I get upset with people sometimes when they can't talk objectively about the possible benefits of using ViM, because they can't get over the "learning" of what the different keys do in different modes. Knowing where to click in VS and *what the things you're clicking on mean* takes patience and learning....just like any program, really. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? funny that gpl, compliance, and linspire would all come up in the same discussion...
Anyone ever seen one of these mythical linspire source cds? me neither...

"Indeed, paying someone in exchange for the work they do! " and paying and paying and paying..... i am surprised you browse the web using a standard (html) that is unencumbered, someone should be selling you the latest and greatest htmlXYZ so they can lock you into their service and milk you to death with subscriptions and upgrades.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Sometimes support is different than on Windows, but has better benifits. Example: My IRiver flash media player comes with software that does not let people copy music files off of the unit, but the un-supported manager built by the OSS comunity provides that ability to copy music to and from the player :-) Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Your written English is better than many of the above comments! I am about to give Ubuntu a serious try and find your list priceless. Many thanks. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have an old Dell Inspiron laptop, about 366mhz and 128mb ram. I also have a D-link wireless pmcia card.
I need an easy to install distro that would recognize automatically my hardware. I am not really proficient with computers, let alone with Linux (I'm really a novice…)
Which distro would you recommend?
Thanks Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It sure did shew up my system. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? We need pre-installed machines. Seems like too much trouble to install. It still seems to be for geeks and not the everyday user. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Printing certainly isn't a weak part for me.
I have an HP psc 2210xi all in one printer and no matter what I do it just wont work on windows. I checked the compatibility list and 950 was the highest driver I could get, I downloaded the 160mb file from HP, I used the CD that came with the printer, I have turned on and off every service I can possibly think of that might interfere. I follow directions on control panel for how to install USB printers and it simply will not work on windows. I'm sure there is a way but look how much work its taken so far.

On fedora core 4 I ran system-config-printer and chose the exact driver and it immediatly made a printpage. End of config on linux.

I had similar experience with a HP PSC 2510, the installer would keep coming up with an error halfway through the install and then it wanted to remove everything it had installed and then reboot and start again. I ended up killing the installer when it came up with the error and it then at least had the printer driver installed, but no obvious option for the scanner and fax, but this was good enough, so I settled for that. I say this because doing the same thing might help you get it working as a printer.

Using Ubuntu, the printer was easy to setup and the scanner just worked, which surprised me as it was connected to the network and not directly to the computer. All in all linux gave me far less trouble than Windows did. Although it can be a different story with other printers, like a Lexmark Z35 that came with my Dad's Dell, that I never got to work even though it has linux drivers. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Anyone ever seen one of these mythical linspire source cds? me neither...

Well, actually:

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5812/shot0yl.png

There. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? xandros......
or libranet..... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Let's see...With lots of time, persistence, guru-like ability to choose the perfect *nix the first time, kernel-level hacking skills and skin thick enough to argue with the people leaving the comments above, I could have something less than what I already run on my high, medium and low-end (500mHz, 320MB RAM, 12GB drive) machines -- i.e. XP. Wow! How can I resist?

There will always be jerks. Some of them want to be exclusive members of a small goup and being a jerk to you will scare you away.

If you want to see what Linux looks like, get a boot CD such as Knoppix or Ubuntu. It's harmless and takes only a couple minutes to boot. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I HIGHLY recommend that anyone considering switching to Linux read the following tutorial:

http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/l1/lesson1a.html

It provides an excellent Linux foundation, is well written and easy to read. You should come away with a well rounded knowledge of the Linux file system, shell, window / desktop mangers, software, etc. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? hobbs ???? are you sure that isnt hobz from linspire fame...

actually, i am starting to agree that preinstalled is very important for home users that dont have a clue (no offense inteneded) Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Anyone ever seen one of these mythical linspire source cds? me neither...

Well, actually:

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5812/shot0yl.png

There.


----- still mythical i see ------ Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Freetype2 now includes its own autohinter for anti-aliased fonts that look as good as those you find on Windows or Mac. As far as TTF fonts go, if you already have Windows installed on the PC (which is usually the case for newbies), then there's usually an option in the Font Configuation panel to import fonts from the MS partition. If not, it's a relatively easy matter to import them using the KDE Font Import dialog. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I beleive ALT Linux has bytecode interpreter ON, so no problems.

And:
Yup, that's "better", if you can remember it. I can, incidentally, (usually I'm remembering "fink install ..." or "rpm install...") but a lot of other people (read: non-geeks) have better things to do with their time than remembering cryptic commands.
No problems: launch package manager, check-in font package, press install button. You're done.
Compare to equivalent action in windows.

As for ViM vs VS, there is a plenty of IDEs starting from KDevelop and to Eclipse, but you windows devs should understand one simple thing: that most programs you'll need IDE and debugger for, I'll write in perl/python.
It will be 10x smaller, and so trivial to write and debug that I'll be happy with ViM.

Windows programmers' misusage of script language is ridiculous. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think one Live CD that in my oppinion is a very good start for the Linux newbie is missing on the list: SLAX. It's very easy to use, and has more than enough enough eye-candy (may be important for a person new to Linux) because of the use of KDE 3.4. The homepage can be found at http://www.slax.org/ Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? To all the people that are sick of hearing about font problems. Yes if you're experienced with linux you'll be able to install any windows ttf font and use it in linux, but the fonts will not look the same in Linux.

I have an LCD screen and the black fonts that are supposed to be black have a color problem. It doesn't matter what setting I set the RGB hinting to. The font edges are still screwed. Sometimes I see a little bit or red and sometimes it's green...etc. In Windows XP, my black fonts are always BLACK!

I played around with the settings a lot and linux simply doesn't have a correctly implemented TTF renderer. Of course I still prefer using Linux over Windows, but I'm still not 100% happy with fonts. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? TTF fonts have hinting data embedded within them that was put there by the font artist; that is, instructions on how to slightly modify rendering at different sizes so that glyphs do not get distorted. AFAIK, this information and its use is proprietary to Apple.

Actually, Apple only has patents covering TrueType delta hints (diagonal hints). Freetype works fairly well with the bytecode interpreter off (thus no delta hints, default in most distributions) but you can sometimes see the difference in the thickness of diagonals on glyphs like W. It isn't really that much of a difference for most fonts.

The problem is lack of good fonts. Bitstream Vera Sans and Bitstream Vera Sans Mono are great typefaces for on-screen use, but lack many international characters. Microsoft, on the other hand, has many professionally designed typefaces with full pan-European character sets (Latin, Cyrillic, and polytonic Greek) and will be getting at least six more with Longhorn:
http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=47&aid=78683
They're actually finished now, and available at Ascender Corp.
http://www.ascendercorp.com/

Apple licenses many well-known typefaces, more than Microsoft (though they don't really have typefaces made for them).

Free Software, however, is stuck with only a few good designs with limited character sets. The Bitstream Vera collection doesn't even have enough characters to be used with many Latin-based European languages. A good on-screen serif typeface is also absent, while Microsoft and Apple have Georgia. Vera Serif does not even have an italic.

The old (and outdated) versions of Microsoft's web fonts can be downloaded and installed, though they can't be installed by default in many distributions, as they are not Free. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The people bashing Linspire are dumb. For some people, it's a very good choice because it tends to work without too much tweaking. To some people that is worth money. Being able to install an OS in 15 minutes is also worth something. As opposed to multiple days with Gentoo. I'm not trying to bash Gentoo, here. I'm simply saying it takes more time to get it configured, and Linspire might not be flexible enough for some people and that's what Gentoo or Debian is for. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? One good and most important point, DONT GIVE UP! It will get frustrating, but DONT GIVE UP! If you get stuck, do search online someone else probably have a solution but DONT GIVE UP! I screwed up many a distros, and have been fed up a lot in the past, but when you get something right for the first time its a great feeling, so DONT GIVE UP! Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have an LCD screen and the black fonts that are supposed to be black have a color problem. It doesn't matter what setting I set the RGB hinting to. The font edges are still screwed. Sometimes I see a little bit or red and sometimes it's green...etc. In Windows XP, my black fonts are always BLACK!

Is the display running at the native resolution of the LCD? (Not scaled up or squoze to fit.)

If no, try that and see if the problem goes away.

If yes, do you notice any of the same problems with non-font objects such as black on white or white on black objects such as circles, or lines (vertical, horizontal, and diagonal)?

If you do...check to see if your monitor is properly selected.

If you do not notice any of these problems, I'm out of suggestions.

I'm not saying you have done anything wrong. It's just that I encounter this problem with Windows also and it's usually easy to fix. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? No problems: launch package manager, check-in font package, press install button. You're done.
Compare to equivalent action in windows.

You missed the point completely, which wasn't whether Linux could do that; it was the "easy method" suggested by the command-line fanatic. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have an LCD screen and the black fonts that are supposed to be black have a color problem. It doesn't matter what setting I set the RGB hinting to. The font edges are still screwed. Sometimes I see a little bit or red and sometimes it's green...etc. In Windows XP, my black fonts are always BLACK!

I played around with the settings a lot and linux simply doesn't have a correctly implemented TTF renderer. Of course I still prefer using Linux over Windows, but I'm still not 100% happy with fonts.

You probably have subpixel rendering misconfigured. Try switching between BGR, RGB, VBGR, and VRGB to see which one eliminates the coloring. If it's still there, just turn off subpixel rendering altogether (Windows does not use subpixel rendering unless you turn it on).

Subpixel rendering uses the color subpixels of an lcd screen to creat smoother edges, but some people seem to notice the colors while others don't. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why the GUI on my 16 year old Atari ST with NeoDesk is still better than KDE or Genome? Linux need a new GUI: not a hack to X system. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Point 11 and 12 should be among the first points, if not the first. Whenever someone asks me if they can run linux I ask them what kind of software they are using in Windows and if they can do without any of it. It is the most important thing to most people, being able to do what they got the computer for.
Why switch to something that will cripple the computer? Because it's free as in speech? Most people just don't think that's important. It's the sad truth. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "The people bashing Linspire are dumb. For some people, it's a very good choice because it tends to work without too much tweaking"

But often linspire doesnt work well, it claims to but doesnt! And the thing is that if it doesnt work well then there is slim to no chance of getting it working properly because they have tweaked and ripped and CNRd it to the point you cant dig under the hood. I think linspire is the perfect choice for the .01 percent of people which it works perfectly for... along with the cost and the fact that if linspire goes under tomm then you have nothing at all to CNR.... So all in all it is a VERY poor choice as far as choice goes....

btw-xandros 'just works' far more often than linspire and you can still dig under the hood (some) if you like... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why the GUI on my 16 year old Atari ST with NeoDesk is still better than KDE or Genome?

Uh, no it isn't. KDE (can't speak for Gnome as I don't use it) is IMO the most advanced Desktop Environment out there (yes, that includes Mac OS X).

Oh, I get it. You were trolling. Silly me. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Have you actually used your Atari with NeoDesk lately?
If not, try it now and compare it to Gnome and you'll realised that a lot has changed and that NeoDesk isn't as good as you remembered it. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Many distros don't enable hinting for the fonts. I think the latest pre-release of Ubuntu is, but even with microsoft fonts freetype still has a problem with smaller font sizes. But you can get freetype to render fonts that look pretty good...not cleartype good, but pretty good. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I think linspire is the perfect choice for the .01 percent of people which it works perfectly for..."

In my experience with it, it works a lot more than .01% of the time.


"they have tweaked and ripped and CNRd it to the point you cant dig under the hood."

That makes no sense. You can always tweak things under the hood. Just cause they already tweaked it for you, it doesn't mean you can't tweak it some more. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Any newbie that reads this article should print out your checklist as a first step to installing Linux. I especially liked the suggestion to take notes, and while I've been using Linux for about 6 years now, I still write down all the steps taken with each new distribution I try. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "In my experience with it, it works a lot more than .01% of the time."

go to the forums check out the problems, very poor modem support, jackd, ISA support is practically nil, lots of wireless card problems....too much to list...

so i CAN dig under the hood? and tommorrow CNR wont complain about the newest version of some lib that I installed from a deb? so does it come with gnome? can i install it?

oh and once again, what happens if linspire closes its doors tommorrow? what are you going to CNR then? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? last time I checked the search engine was called "google" not "gooogle." the link is even wrong, although it's funny that it still resolves to google.com.

or maybe I should say it's funnny. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Many distros don't enable hinting for the fonts. I think the latest pre-release of Ubuntu is, but even with microsoft fonts freetype still has a problem with smaller font sizes. But you can get freetype to render fonts that look pretty good...not cleartype good, but pretty good.

Most distros (all the ones I've used) enable hinting by default, but not the bytecode interpreter. I think Ubuntu has the bytecode interpreter on by default, because it is based outside the US (on the Isle of Man). Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Decide, in advance, that you don't give up. Period.

Why would someone new to Linux decide that? Linux can be frustrating as hell even to experienced users. It should read give up before you throw your computer out the window. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "go to the forums check out the problems, very poor modem support, jackd, ISA support is practically nil, lots of wireless card problems....too much to list..."

Very poor modem and wireless card support are linux problems. They are not Linspire specific. Most new 802.11g wireless cards will not work in any distro. Linux is linux... if your hardware works in some linux distro, it can and will work with another distro.

"so i CAN dig under the hood? and tommorrow CNR wont complain about the newest version of some lib that I installed from a deb? so does it come with gnome? can i install it?"

If you want gnome, Linspire is not for you. I agree with you on these issues. I'm saying for the people that don't even know the difference between KDE and gnome, Linspire is rather often a perfect choice. If you like KDE, Linspire might be the perfect choice. However, like you said, if you wish to use Gnome, stay away from Linspire.

I never claimed Linspire was for EVERYONE. I'm saying for some people it's the perfect choice and it's worth the money. I know several people that are really happy with the value Linspire provides.

"oh and once again, what happens if linspire closes its doors tommorrow? what are you going to CNR then?"

As long as people are paying for click and run, I don't believe it will close its doors. This is a bad argument. Do you not drive a car because you might get into a fatal car accident? Are you afraid of flying in an airplane because it might crash? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So many "How to"s fail to cover the basic advice for the newcomer, such as "don't give up", "this will take a while to learn", "have you tried google" and "have you tried the 'man' command". This extra advice will further aid people who dip their toes into Linux, by giving them a clear direction. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Very poor modem and wireless card support are linux problems. They are not Linspire specific. Most new 802.11g wireless cards will not work in any distro. Linux is linux... if your hardware works in some linux distro, it can and will work with another distro."

bbut that is it! linspire claims that things will just work and no tweaking is neccessary and yet things that work just fine in the majority of distros do not work in linspire and you cannot install something you need for fear of breaking CNR and linspire tweaks.... To get some things working in linspire I have had to use dpkg and force a debian package in and then it works but if I am going to do all that then I might as well be using debian...

"If you want gnome, Linspire is not for you. I agree with you on these issues. I'm saying for the people that don't even know the difference between KDE and gnome, Linspire is rather often a perfect choice. If you like KDE, Linspire might be the perfect choice. However, like you said, if you wish to use Gnome, stay away from Linspire."

so you think linspire is the perfect choice when most other distros include both and let you choose but linspire doesnt..

"I never claimed Linspire was for EVERYONE. I'm saying for some people it's the perfect choice and it's worth the money. I know several people that are really happy with the value Linspire provides."

and i agree - it isnt for everyone. But my problem is there are numerous other distros which offer as much if not more than linspire does and is a better value overall...

"As long as people are paying for click and run, I don't believe it will close its doors. This is a bad argument. Do you not drive a car because you might get into a fatal car accident? Are you afraid of flying in an airplane because it might crash?"

most things that close, close the minute after they take the last few dollars they can get... So if you go to renew your subscription and it is $99 for the year will you still be happy with it? what about $199? I mean they have you locked in if you want to use linspire so what ya going to do..

oh and the drive car because it may crash and the airplane argument isnt even close to being any type of analogy...

Would you buy a car that required you to use that companys tires? wax? paint? gas? oil? I sure wouldnt! especially if that company goes out of business tommorrow then I have a car and thats it, no wax, no oil, no gas, no tires.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I concur that people should try the live distros prior to installing.
I have installed various distros over the years - chronologically:

1. Red Hat 6.x on Virtual PC mac
2. LinuxPPC on my blue and white G3 mac
3. Mandrake 9 on my beige Dell
4. SuSE 8.x on a Sun Sparc workstation
5. SLAX live distro
6. KNOPPIX (and a whole lot of derivatives)
I am pretty sure I have left a few out (live mostly) - anyway.

I have had problems with linux. On PPC I could not get my modem recognized (which was my only way to communicate with the outside world back then) - also when I turned the computer off, and then rebooted the day after, it would freak out on me if I had previously used KDE instead of GNOME.

On Sparc I haven't had any problems - but I prefer to install solaris on it :-)

On X86 I have had no problems printing, but I rely on Filemaker to run for my day to day work and there is no FMP for linux. I tried wine, but there were so many problems.

I like to toy around with linux, but I cannot get serious work done - this is *my* personal experience and I do not want to generalize about all the penguins out there.

For now I stick with the Windows/OS X double team for my work. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As soon as I'm not happy with it, I'll jump ships. Moving to Debian from Linspire is gonna be a lot less painful than moving from Windows to Linspire was. As of today, Linspire is affordable and on my system it works. It does things that no other distro was able to do on my Inspiron 8500 laptop. Things like the volume buttons working out of the box and suspend.


"Would you buy a car that required you to use that companys tires? wax? paint? gas? oil? I sure wouldnt! especially if that company goes out of business tommorrow then I have a car and thats it, no wax, no oil, no gas, no tires...."

If the company I bought the car from goes out of business, I'm gonna swap the entire car. I'm not gonna try and use a dead company's car with free tires, which might not perform as good as my company supported tires. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Most distros (all the ones I've used) enable hinting by default, but not the bytecode interpreter. I think Ubuntu has the bytecode interpreter on by default, because it is based outside the US (on the Isle of Man).

You're right on this Ubuntu enable the bytecode interpreter by default, I just checked. That explains why fonts look good on my LCD while they are not with FC4 which does not enable it.

To people with font problems, recompile your version of freetype for you distribution after uncommenting #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER in ftoptions.h and see if it fixes you problem. Combining this with using ms fonts should give great results. You can also disable antialising at standard font sizes (beetween 7 and 15) and it should look just like windows. A little of a hassle but may work the effort. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? sounds like you tried linux expecting it to be windows....

linux isnt a windows drop-in, it is a different OS with different tools, almost always a similar package on linux...

what is filemanker and what do you use it for? who makes it? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You missed the point completely, which wasn't whether Linux could do that; it was the "easy method" suggested by the command-line fanatic.
That fanatic was me either, thanx.

But I thought anyone "WHERE CLUE NOT NULL" (c) will understand that if I can apt-get, I can also start synaptic and do that comfortabely and easy. I was wrong, I argue.

Difference was: in Linspire you can buy fonts, in ALT you can install fonts. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? what kind of car do you drive then?

"Moving to Debian from Linspire is gonna be a lot less painful than moving from Windows to Linspire was"
yea ok, you just wait and see.... whew that was funny...
learn linspire == learn linspire
learn debian == learn linux
why not start by learning debian to begin with.... ever tried xandros? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "yea ok, you just wait and see.... whew that was funny...
learn linspire == learn linspire
learn debian == learn linux
why not start by learning debian to begin with.... ever tried xandros?"

Xandros isn't debian either. Yeah I've tried it but not recently. My reason for using Linspire on my laptop was not so that I learn Linux. I did so that I can use my computer and not so I can learn about it.

If you really want to learn linux I would argue that you should use not learn debian. You should use slackware. That way you won't even have apt figuring out your dependencies. You'll have to hunt them down yourself and you can waste even more time learning about something you might never need. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've been using Linux for years. I put together a collection of books online:

http://atomickobold.mine.nu:8000/linux-tutor/ Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'll leave those up for 2 days. If you want them after that please e-mail me and I'll send you a copy. I can only leave them up for 2 days, because of Bandwidth issues.

Enjoy. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? why not create your favorites list at amazon and use their bandwidth.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Uh.. because they are hosted on my server.... duh. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Forget it and install BSD. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? sorry dude, i thought it was just a listing of the books you thought were good and people should check out... are you saying the actual book is available online? TOO FRICKIN COOL! i like it!

that being said, i got "connection refused" for all of them and sometimes for the site itself...

are all those books available online? Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i think i am going to have to try BSD again.... too many people stating how cool it is in such a matter of fact way getting me all antsy.... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for the positive comments. After reading the comments I do find a couple of points missing in my article.
A. Wi-fi support.
B. Elaborate on using Google news groups; How to ask questions in Linux users forums.
C. More on Linux hardware support. Open source vs. closed source drivers. etc.

As for google, I wonder how I've missed it. Oh well, at least google was smart enough to also register gooogle just for idiots like me

Anyways, hopefully this article will help people take the dive.
Gilboa Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm Sorry too, they should be avilable now. And yes they are the books.
:) Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Oh yeah, just click the book cover images, and you will be presented with an HTML-ized version of the book. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've tried many distros, and I like some, but the programs I need aren't there. If they are there, they don't have the features I need. Also, software installation is a nightmare without a repository. I know there are some methods such as ZeroInstall and Autopackage, but they aren't favored by the Linux community. What a shame because I believe something like that could bring more users and commercial companies into Linux.

Well, one distro that is making it easier for users and their software install/uninstall is great is PC-BSD. I'll be sticking to that and when the new Apple-Intel books come out, you can bet I'll be getting an OS that just WORKS! Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Let's see...With lots of time, persistence, guru-like ability to choose the perfect *nix the first time, kernel-level hacking skills and skin thick enough to argue with the people leaving the comments above, I could have something less than what I already run on my high, medium and low-end (500mHz, 320MB RAM, 12GB drive) machines -- i.e. XP. Wow! How can I resist?"

Pure, unadulterated BS.

I can have a SimplyMepis installation up and running, on the vast majority of PCs, with media codecs working, networking working, Java and Flash working, fonts looking great, sound and video configured perfectly, an awesome looking KDE desktop, and tons of applications (OpenOffice, multimedia, games, editors, CD burning, bittorent, chat programs, browsers, email clients, compilers, scripting tools, wine, etc, etc, all within 10 minutes, either for free or paying for a $10 CD from the Mepis website.

To accomplish the same with a fresh Windows XP install, it would take at least 3 hours, and several hundred dollars. - 1 hour for the install itself, 1 hour to locate and install and tweak the drivers, as well as Java and Flash, and at least an hour to install all of the useful programs I want. And XP itself would cost at least $100 dollars, and to get Office and games and other good multimedia stuff, it would cost in the hundreds of dollars.

It also must be mentioned that the cheaper, easier, more satisfying, more fun Linux computing experience gives, by far, the faster, more stable, and more secure computing experience.

Also, to throw in the obligatory "I got my mom,grandma,joe sixpack neighbor running Linux with ease" story, I have, indeed, gotten my 71 year old mother, who never used computers before, using one of those Linsire loaded, $179 PCs from Frys, with very little help from me. The only help I've given her is "Computer usage 1A" - basic stuff like using the mouse, copying files, browsing the internet, launching games, checking/sending email, etc. She is now regularily playing games, receiving and sending emails, and browsing the web with her Linspire Linux Frys PC, with great joy and satisfaction, without hardly ever asking me for help. By contrast, when my brother helped with using a Windows PC, she called me constantly about problems with pop up adds, addware, and viruses. Her Windows PC became unusable within 3 weeks.

There is absolutely no comparison. The simple fact is that Linux, when using a newbie friendly distro like SimplyMepis (and there are others), is much much much much much easier than Windows out of the box, period.

Linux is big time ready for the desktop. The only reasons so many people think otherwise are:
1) Ignorant perception, not based on real experience - people are told Linux is only for technical savvy geeks, and they assume it's true (even though that is patently false).
2) Linux is becoming so successful that many non Linux lovers, MS shills, Solaris fanboys, or Mac Lovers, feel the need to troll, bash, spread lies, or spread FUD about Linux. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I forgot to mention some other things in my previous post.

The other poster (and others) have said Linux is week in these areas:

Printing - For me, printing with SimplyMepis (and some others), has worked great. My HP printer was detected and configured out of the box.

Getting new software - It doesn't get any easier than Synaptic, pointing at the Debian unstable repository, where you have instant access to 15,000+ packages. Actually it does get easier - Linspire's Click-n-Run Warehouse. Using Synaptic, or Linspire's Click-n-Run, or Xandros network, or Mandriva's RPMdrake, or others, gives you quick, easy, cheap (or free) access to tons of world class software that can fulfill pretty much any of your computing needs or desires.

Support / upnoxious Linux posters - Just try asking questions at the MepisLovers support forum - you would be overwhelmingly shocked at how quickly, how pleasantly, and how thoroughly you will have your question answered. The people who frequent MepisLovers are so freaking nice, as well as knowledgable and helpful, it's scary. Many other distro support forums are ridiculously friendly and helpful as well - Ubuntu, Fedora, and many others, have great support forums. By contrast - you will never, ever, get this level of friendly support from MS or Windows support forums (if they exist). And MS support will cost you at least $300 a call.

And add to that the fact that Linux is such an efficient, stable, secure OS that gives you complete control of your system, allows you get under the hood if you want, allows you copy and re-use to your heart's content (without violating a Windows style draconian EULA), and you have hands down a vastly superior computing experience than Windows.

Sure, Linux is not perfect - WiFi can be iffy, Wireless support is not yet completely mature, KDE and Gnome are moderately resource hungry (albiet not as resource hungry as WinXP), some modems are not supported, some exotic hardware is not supported, etc. But as an all around platform, server, embedded OS, or desktop OS, Linux is very very very very very hard to beat. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I missed 2 things in the article:
-the warning that Ubuntu's documentation (at least at the Warty Warthog stage) is crap and highly incomplete.
-the warning that accessing data or files on any of your drives will be a confusing and awkward process, unless you know what you're doing already or unless you use a livecd like Knoppix that makes it easy. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "it looks like we're still stuck with MSFT monopoly"

I'm not, I don't use M$ products/software anymore. One is only "stuck" if they allow themselves to be stuck. I won't allow a monopoly to "stick" humanity with a stranglehold on computing and a blindfold to the eyes of the future of innovation, whomever that monopoly may be. I will help, volunteer, donate money to, bring awareness to, etc. various FOSS products/movements. I will be a cog in the wheel of change. The glass is half full, not half empty. The heart of it goes beyond computing to philosophy and changing the world for the better. If you think that kind of talk is best left to sci-fi reruns and dime store novels then the future for some is very sad indeed.

** All of the text above within this post is in my opinion for entertainment purposes only. Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? /me concurs Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Yeah... What he said... Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? excellent..... kudos!
if you wanna share then souneedalink (at) yahoo Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I put them on my partner's main business server. :-D Enjoy, they'll be there for 2 weeks. This link will be much faster. Please note the first link I gave is now defunct.

Here's the NEW link:

http://www.atomickobold.net/downloads/linux-tutor.tar.gz

--Jed

P.S.
My partner said it was ok. *lol* Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? as far as showing off linux to people / live cd's in general i recommend the Archie cds http://user-contributions.org/archie.html http://www.ufficiozero.org/ they aren't nearly as software packed as knoppix but they boot really fast (and unlike the ubuntu cd require no interaction), faster than my actual arch installation actually, also being Arch it's file placement is very simple compared to what i've seen in say ubuntu to show your friend that the file layout really isn't THAT bad. Fri, 01 Jul 2005 02:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There is a fundamental flaw with this article ..
well not directly .. but I very much doubt that most people who have heard of Linux & are curious are also OSnews readers ...

I am not in any way trying to ridicule or insult anyone ... but the best place for a Linux curiosity add would be
(this Microsoft will never allow) on Hotmail or one of the other Email providers like Yahoo etc.

The choice with linux is a good and a bad thing....
choice means if someone doesnt like distro X they can try to switch to distro Y ...
but then of course were there only a hand full not hundreds of distros skills & time would be concentrated ...
but its open source .. so huuray :-)

I might wish for the article to give some examples of distro which runs on 16 MB ,32MB ,64MB ,...256MB systems for giving readers some direction of distro a bit more
(Vectorlinux :-) .. sorry cant resist) ...

Xcept for that ....its a really good article which was missing .

Thankyou to the author .

Post scribbles :
I do agree with the first comment ... it can get really tiresome for things to be not available .. or 100% working or just not as good as Windows or OSX ... but I guess & hope that the open source community will still be able to exist in many years ... making software development more democratic ... I drank a bit so I might be talking geekrubbish ... . Fri, 01 Jul 2005 02:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Google and forums are mentioned, but not one excellent resources that's sort of a combination of the two: google's usenet search. Google group searches, especially when limiting them to comp.os.linux.*, were quite helpful back when I regularly experimented with Linux. Fri, 01 Jul 2005 02:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There are some people on here who have friends; and they might direct them to read this . Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What's that? You mean it doesn't talk down to the user? Geez, you sound like a Unix programmer!
Of course, you could spin that the other way too. Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Your commend in the 16-30 range is very well written. Everyone should go read it, or re-read it. Seriously, I think you hit it pretty well. I will occasionally hear complaints about some piece of hardware not working: When I know that hardware has flawless support. Usually it's because something is messed up with some gui-configuration utility.
The same things happen in Windows; or could potentionally: If every company didn't ship its own GUI-configuration wizard for their hardware. I honestly think it's pathetic that people are so convinced they need these: I've seen "power-users" who think they need them! Power users who aren't comfortable installing device drivers?
It's good to know some abstracted level of how your computer works; most people would get along a lot better with their computer if they understood it! It's true. But then again, most people believe you can drive a car and not understand it: I challenge them to drive in the mountains and ride the brakes! Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5812/shot0yl.png

What is so wrong with those fonts? Fonts are for reading remember, not for going "ooooo look how fuzzy they are!"

I've been reading Joel Spolsky's book; ya know he goes so far as to say anti-aliasing is a bad thing! He acts as if he likes choppy fonts. I think opinions on what text is supposed to look like really varies a lot... Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? That's cause autopackage is new . But since you're pimping bsd after saying linux apps lack the features you need, well I'm betting you're trolling . Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? IRC can also be a great resource; if you know of good channels to go to: There's always gonna be some jerk yelling "rm -Rf /"!!! Fri, 01 Jul 2005 03:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Under internet connections wireless seems to be missing, be sure to check which cards have open specifications( openbsd's site is good for this) and which cards are supported by ndiswrapper Fri, 01 Jul 2005 04:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Under internet connections wireless seems to be missing, be sure to check which cards have open specifications( openbsd's site is good for this) and which cards are supported by ndiswrapper Fri, 01 Jul 2005 05:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I for one love the idea of an OS that's not MS nor Apple. The only problem though is after three years or more of messing around with Linux I'm tired of it. Specifically I'm tired of:
1) Fonts still suck, Linspire is the best here because of being able to buy fonts (which one wouldn't have to do in Win or Apple)

While I prefer the Bitstream fonts you do realize that you can get all those MS core fonts? With most distros it is simply one command.

I really don't see much of a difference in font rendering at all between linux and windows but they seem better rendered in Mac OS X.


2) Printer support and other peripherals are still spotty requireing jumping through hoops to get to work and even then they never work quite right. Even more impossible to get to work through SAMBA. The problem is the new printers are dirt cheap and thus use subpar drivers as is the case with HP inkjets. Those printers are made to NOT work on a network, they want us to own a printer per computer instead. It can still be done on windows but via samba is spotty at best.

Huh? The CUPS tools once again from Suse, Fedora and Ubuntu have all done me well even with a HP Photosmart printer and of course with my simple HL 1440 Laser printer.

Sharing a hassle? Maybe I have just dealt with samba for awhile but I find samba sharing to be more consistent and easy and certainly more easy to troubleshoot than trying to share out resources from Unix itself. Come on Redhat has that samba configuration tool and Ubuntu has an option to share a printer right in the printer setup menu? Heck if you want to share a directory in Ubuntu just right click on the folder and choose ---> share folder.

Other peripherals? My Nikon camera works and my iPod with Gtkpod works and my ... I don't know I have not had a problem in a long time maybe 3 years ago with an off-brand of USB scanner I think.


3) Still there is no standard media player for the 'net that's easy and legal. Linspire again wins out here because they have licensed the Quicktime and WMA codecs at least so one doesn't have to use crossover. For those who do use crossover getting that to work is an exercise in frustration too, both the normal crossover install and the bult in one in Xandros 3 crash when win media player, quicktime and a host of other built in programs are attempted to be installed.

Give me a break. There are two standard media players.

Mplayer and xine. Codecs? No need for Crossover for years now. Every distro and community now has a Faq and ubuntu even has a postinstall setup script to set all that multimedia stuff up immediately. Btw, that same script will install your ms core fonts too.


It's all just become one big pain in the A$$ and even harder to even think about recommending to anyone else.

Since Apple is still not going to open their OS to let people (why not just restrict retail clone sales of?) build their own it looks like we're still stuck with MSFT monopoly.

You are stuck with a MSFT monopoly man. Not me and a lot of other people.

Frankly it sounds as if you are making excuses and using experiences that sound well at least 3 or 4 years out of date.

There are serious issues with moving to linux and the OS is far from perfect. Notice the autopackage discussion in above comments for reference or the fact many distros still do not detect hw on install and take the time to enable dma by default or install cpu-optimized kernels by default or ... there are others. Too many distros or too much choice or come on you get the picture.

But for example I have a friend that just got his new Apple laptop.

Even in the grand Mac OS X it took him a while to get his apps and plugins and codecs for various formats of video and audio files straight.

Being old-school back in the day when linux was as hard as you describe I helped him hunt down the player for the codecs he was missing but frankly it took awhile.

It is amazing that some people troll by holding linux up to an even higher standard than the OS that came with their computers by default.

Someone else commenting got it right.

None of this matters till more computers come with linux pre-installed because only hardcore geeks ever bother to install a new OS on their computer. Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments