Although not a huge featureful release, I hope 2.12 brings a tighter feal to the desktop. The inclusion of Evince is definitely a good thing – removing the need for seperate doc viewers. I also like the new Nautilus path bar, although (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) after having a play with Vista today (the benefits of MSDN) I actually prefer how MS has integrated “drop down” selection for each stage of the bar. It can’t be hard to implement however, I’m sure someone with the skills will add that to Nautilus just for fun.
Also, finally, a proper clipboard daemon that will alleviate those “cr*p i just closed the window” moments!
Ok — What I want to know is if they put the “Modem Lights” panel applet back in. They pulled it in 2.10 and replaced it with this braindead applet called “Modem Monitor.” I’m still running 2.8 because of that faux paus.
That new applet integrates with system-tools-backends from Freedesktop (just like gnome-system-tools does) and contributes to integrate system configuration, and besides that removes the arcane options that Modemlights had, like choosing colors for traffic (there’s already an applet for viewing traffic flux) or choosing the command for dialing (s-t-b already guesses that from your distro)
It could be more useful if you sent some bug reports with the issues you find, instead of complaining in random forums
I’ve already reported it, as have others. It doesn’t do any good. The dialing command guessing is what most people had problems with — it guessed wrong. I can get around that. It’s the lack of visual feedback on network traffic that I find unacceptable. No, Network Monitor doesn’t provide this information and the other solutions I’ve been told to use are too big and don’t reside in the panel.
I take it from your rude statement above that I can expect no improvement in 2.12 and need to start looking outside Gnome.
What ARE the new features? Every time “other DEs” are released, there is always a summary of the most important changes, but with Gnome there usually is, well, this.
what exactly is gnome doing? I love the gnome desktop but seriously there feature release is always very small are they just waiting for cairo and the new gtk or something whats going on with them?
You have to look into the Changelogs of the source files to have a (great – as in quality and quantity-) listing of new features.
One of the best things GNOME now can do is to integrate Mono as a standard base technology so M$ can see and learn how .Net can be fully integrated into Windowing Technologies.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Mono is an excellent development platform, and I thoroughly enjoy C#/GTK# etc… but I don’t see it being “fully integrated” any time soon. Mono is currently filling a niche, it is allowing people to develop great apps quickly and easily. I don’t think it will see any more than that as part of the Gnome desktop in the near future.
As much as I love Mono, I’m learning Python just because it doesnt have the “issues” Mono has within the community. And please, lets not turn this into a Mono vs the world thread
I’m sticking with my Java/Python mix for now. And if mono ever becomes successful (becomes a big and central part of GNOME) I can migrate Java->C# and Python->Boo. But for now I don’t see the big advantage. The C# bindings aren’t in the GNOME Platform Bindings (Java and Python bindings are) and I think it would be hard to do something like Gimp and Inkscape with Mono in a way that it is usably fast (maybe if the drawing itself is unmanaged).
I think it would be hard to do something like Gimp and Inkscape with Mono in a way that it is usably fast (maybe if the drawing itself is unmanaged).
i’m not sure, but the same would be even more valid for python and java.
Some time ago there was a benchmark, after C(GTK+) and C++(GTKmm) it was C#(GTK#) using the fewest memory. Python and Java programs have used much more memory!
>i’m not sure, but the same would be even more valid for >python and java.
I’m not advocating Java or Python that kind of task; I’m saying that those types of task are probably unsuitable for any type of VM/Interpreter language, and that even when mone would take of and all of us would use it there is a large subset of applications that it is not well suited for.
I’m not advocating Java or Python that kind of task; I’m saying that those types of task are probably unsuitable for any type of VM/Interpreter language,
i think everyone should know this. Every job has the right tool. I think no one will use Mono for every task. But for many “normal” programs Mono is a really good option and gives GNOME something what KDE has from the beginning. A great and easy to use programming-language + toolkit combination.
Thats all opinion, I wouldn’t use great in a sentence with C++.
i wouldn’t too. That’s why i don’t like Gtkmm, because it’s so “C++-like”.
But i think Qt has created a Framwork which is not only a GUI Toolkit but also creates something like a new programming language which make many C++ things easier.
I think that’s what makes Qt something special and Mono something what we have missed before. Gtk+ is a good GUI Toolkit. But i think it’s really painflull to use it with C and also with C++. Mono is a Framework which has a really nice and intuitive language and make GUI programming real fun.
On KDE C++ alone doesn’t do it, but C++ + Qt is a really nice “language”. I see it simular with Mono and Gtk+, Gtk+ alone doesn’t do it but Mono + Gtk+ is a really nice framework.
Sure that’s just a opinion and everyone likes another language. But for me, also as GNOME user, Qt programing was always fun even if i don’t like pure C++. Qt was the part which makes it nice. As a GNOME user, Gtk+ programming was no fun for me, but with Mono it starts to make fun so here was Mono te part who created the fun that KDE always have through Qt.
I really like gtkmm’s design. And I really like C++’s flexability, despite the fact that it makes the language huge (feature wise and such). Really I don’t think you can have a programming language with the flexability and power of C++ and also have it be simple. Python, Java, and C# try but they just don’t get all the way there.
I also don’t believe that programming should be generally simple. It is computer programming after all, you might have to deal with memory management and the like. C++ handles these tasks well. It is not realistic to want a language that is everything including simple, but C++ comes mighty close.
I don’t know C++ and don’t really want to learn it either. I would rather spend my effort on Objective Caml or D; both have GTK bindings. As you said, programming isn’t simple, but as programmers we can chose what type of complexities we want by choosing our languages.
One of the best things GNOME now can do is to integrate Mono as a standard base technology so M$ can see and learn how .Net can be fully integrated into Windowing Technologies.
The best thing Gnome could do would be to port Beagle to some language that is not subject to so many inflamed discussions. Mono will not be part of standard Gnome for a very long time, if ever. No matter on how good it is or will be.
I think the core of GNOME should stay in C. I like the way there are bindings for mono, c++, python, java… I do think they should focus on making these binding top notch, and documenting them. This is one of the many reason I prefer GNOME over KDE.
I think the core of GNOME should stay in C. I like the way there are bindings for mono, c++, python, java…
The core libraries should stay in C for that reason, but for parts of the user interface, using a VM might make sense at some point. Python can already be used for tools, but for something as integral as the panel it would probably not be a good choice. Of course many will say that Mono or Java won’t ever be a good choice either, but I’m sure realism will catch them sooner or later.
… you know, the one who provides a nice summery (with screenshots) of all the new things in the forthcoming GNOME release? I liked his 2.8 and 2.10 articles.
Is there any way of getting rid of that annoying black rectangle that surrounds apps and flickers as you minimize them – personally just want apps to minimize, not to show “feedback” or whatever when doing that.
“Is there any way of getting rid of that annoying black rectangle that surrounds apps and flickers as you minimize them..”
I’m been looking for ages to find a good way to turn this effect off. I’m really sensitive to flicker and it really bugs me. No luck with gtweakui or anything yet.
Try turning off ‘animations’ in gconf editor if you would like to see the setting have absolutely no effect.
You CAN disable it with “configuration editor->metacity->general->reduced resources”, but this also makes it draw a weird wireframe box divided into nine squares when you drag windows, and turns off some other stuff too.
If it’s eye candy, it *should* be easy to disable IMHO.
Although not a huge featureful release, I hope 2.12 brings a tighter feal to the desktop. The inclusion of Evince is definitely a good thing – removing the need for seperate doc viewers. I also like the new Nautilus path bar, although (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) after having a play with Vista today (the benefits of MSDN) I actually prefer how MS has integrated “drop down” selection for each stage of the bar. It can’t be hard to implement however, I’m sure someone with the skills will add that to Nautilus just for fun.
Also, finally, a proper clipboard daemon that will alleviate those “cr*p i just closed the window” moments!
Ok — What I want to know is if they put the “Modem Lights” panel applet back in. They pulled it in 2.10 and replaced it with this braindead applet called “Modem Monitor.” I’m still running 2.8 because of that faux paus.
That new applet integrates with system-tools-backends from Freedesktop (just like gnome-system-tools does) and contributes to integrate system configuration, and besides that removes the arcane options that Modemlights had, like choosing colors for traffic (there’s already an applet for viewing traffic flux) or choosing the command for dialing (s-t-b already guesses that from your distro)
It could be more useful if you sent some bug reports with the issues you find, instead of complaining in random forums
I’ve already reported it, as have others. It doesn’t do any good. The dialing command guessing is what most people had problems with — it guessed wrong. I can get around that. It’s the lack of visual feedback on network traffic that I find unacceptable. No, Network Monitor doesn’t provide this information and the other solutions I’ve been told to use are too big and don’t reside in the panel.
I take it from your rude statement above that I can expect no improvement in 2.12 and need to start looking outside Gnome.
If you are disatisfied with the situation, then I agree that you should look outside of GNOME. And thank God for choice!
Dude, there’s only 1 bug (1) reported to the modem applet, and doesn’t describe at all what you state there, now please try reporting bugs actually
What ARE the new features? Every time “other DEs” are released, there is always a summary of the most important changes, but with Gnome there usually is, well, this.
I second that. How about a nice write up of the new stuff with some screenshots?
As far as I know (and according to http://live.gnome.org/ReleasesNotes2p12Items), the new features/improvements are:
– ClearLooks default theme
– Evince document viewer
– Clipboard daemon
– the introduction of a “me” concept
– cursor themes finally officially supported
– panel improvements
– memory footprint improvements
– Totem gets a cool new sidebar
– sound juicer is a lot friendlier now
– better log file viewing
– improvements to built in dictionary app
– places from your panel is now places in Nautilus
– MENU EDITOR!!
– evolution improvements
Oh, not to mention that breadcrumb / location bar change in Nautilus…
Don’t forget the tree view for spatial.
what exactly is gnome doing? I love the gnome desktop but seriously there feature release is always very small are they just waiting for cairo and the new gtk or something whats going on with them?
You have to look into the Changelogs of the source files to have a (great – as in quality and quantity-) listing of new features.
One of the best things GNOME now can do is to integrate Mono as a standard base technology so M$ can see and learn how .Net can be fully integrated into Windowing Technologies.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Mono is an excellent development platform, and I thoroughly enjoy C#/GTK# etc… but I don’t see it being “fully integrated” any time soon. Mono is currently filling a niche, it is allowing people to develop great apps quickly and easily. I don’t think it will see any more than that as part of the Gnome desktop in the near future.
As much as I love Mono, I’m learning Python just because it doesnt have the “issues” Mono has within the community. And please, lets not turn this into a Mono vs the world thread
I’m sticking with my Java/Python mix for now. And if mono ever becomes successful (becomes a big and central part of GNOME) I can migrate Java->C# and Python->Boo. But for now I don’t see the big advantage. The C# bindings aren’t in the GNOME Platform Bindings (Java and Python bindings are) and I think it would be hard to do something like Gimp and Inkscape with Mono in a way that it is usably fast (maybe if the drawing itself is unmanaged).
I think it would be hard to do something like Gimp and Inkscape with Mono in a way that it is usably fast (maybe if the drawing itself is unmanaged).
i’m not sure, but the same would be even more valid for python and java.
Some time ago there was a benchmark, after C(GTK+) and C++(GTKmm) it was C#(GTK#) using the fewest memory. Python and Java programs have used much more memory!
>i’m not sure, but the same would be even more valid for >python and java.
I’m not advocating Java or Python that kind of task; I’m saying that those types of task are probably unsuitable for any type of VM/Interpreter language, and that even when mone would take of and all of us would use it there is a large subset of applications that it is not well suited for.
I’m not advocating Java or Python that kind of task; I’m saying that those types of task are probably unsuitable for any type of VM/Interpreter language,
i think everyone should know this. Every job has the right tool. I think no one will use Mono for every task. But for many “normal” programs Mono is a really good option and gives GNOME something what KDE has from the beginning. A great and easy to use programming-language + toolkit combination.
>gives GNOME something what KDE has from the beginning. A
>great and easy to use programming-language + toolkit
>combination.
Thats all opinion, I wouldn’t use great in a sentence with C++.
Thats all opinion, I wouldn’t use great in a sentence with C++.
i wouldn’t too. That’s why i don’t like Gtkmm, because it’s so “C++-like”.
But i think Qt has created a Framwork which is not only a GUI Toolkit but also creates something like a new programming language which make many C++ things easier.
I think that’s what makes Qt something special and Mono something what we have missed before. Gtk+ is a good GUI Toolkit. But i think it’s really painflull to use it with C and also with C++. Mono is a Framework which has a really nice and intuitive language and make GUI programming real fun.
On KDE C++ alone doesn’t do it, but C++ + Qt is a really nice “language”. I see it simular with Mono and Gtk+, Gtk+ alone doesn’t do it but Mono + Gtk+ is a really nice framework.
Sure that’s just a opinion and everyone likes another language. But for me, also as GNOME user, Qt programing was always fun even if i don’t like pure C++. Qt was the part which makes it nice. As a GNOME user, Gtk+ programming was no fun for me, but with Mono it starts to make fun so here was Mono te part who created the fun that KDE always have through Qt.
I really like gtkmm’s design. And I really like C++’s flexability, despite the fact that it makes the language huge (feature wise and such). Really I don’t think you can have a programming language with the flexability and power of C++ and also have it be simple. Python, Java, and C# try but they just don’t get all the way there.
I also don’t believe that programming should be generally simple. It is computer programming after all, you might have to deal with memory management and the like. C++ handles these tasks well. It is not realistic to want a language that is everything including simple, but C++ comes mighty close.
I don’t know C++ and don’t really want to learn it either. I would rather spend my effort on Objective Caml or D; both have GTK bindings. As you said, programming isn’t simple, but as programmers we can chose what type of complexities we want by choosing our languages.
One of the best things GNOME now can do is to integrate Mono as a standard base technology so M$ can see and learn how .Net can be fully integrated into Windowing Technologies.
The best thing Gnome could do would be to port Beagle to some language that is not subject to so many inflamed discussions. Mono will not be part of standard Gnome for a very long time, if ever. No matter on how good it is or will be.
i agree mono is useless
btw
i’ve ported beagle in python using zcatalog as indexer
http://img185.echo.cx/img185/2971/pybeagle47ya.png
Nice shots, do you have any more info about that pybeagle 🙂 Would like to give it a shot.
Regards.
Please, please, please pass this on to the Fedora people. They may even include it in the distro, since they won’t touch Mono.
I think the core of GNOME should stay in C. I like the way there are bindings for mono, c++, python, java… I do think they should focus on making these binding top notch, and documenting them. This is one of the many reason I prefer GNOME over KDE.
I think the core of GNOME should stay in C. I like the way there are bindings for mono, c++, python, java…
The core libraries should stay in C for that reason, but for parts of the user interface, using a VM might make sense at some point. Python can already be used for tools, but for something as integral as the panel it would probably not be a good choice. Of course many will say that Mono or Java won’t ever be a good choice either, but I’m sure realism will catch them sooner or later.
Please, multisession burning for nnautilus its a must have.
Been waiting a long time for that one…
… you know, the one who provides a nice summery (with screenshots) of all the new things in the forthcoming GNOME release? I liked his 2.8 and 2.10 articles.
I second that, where are the developer blogs when you need them?
That guy would be Davyd Madeley, perhaps if you ask nicely … But perhaps it’s still too soon to have a “What’s new in Gnome 2.12” article.
rehdon
> Every time “other DEs” are released, there is always a summary of the most important changes, but with Gnome there usually is, well, this.
Nonsense. We write pretty release notes for every major stable release, just not for every development release along the way.
Is there any way of getting rid of that annoying black rectangle that surrounds apps and flickers as you minimize them – personally just want apps to minimize, not to show “feedback” or whatever when doing that.
What ever happend to:
1. The task scheduler/cron frontend;
2. The new, improved Yelp
3. The disk/system tools
That were pulled from 2.10 for not being ready? Have these been included yet?
The new Yelp will be there (I read a message to that effect, please correct me if I’m wrong!).
rehdon
Does the internet connection tool know about external USB modems yet? I really wish this tool was worked on to bring it up to speed with kppp!
Yes, I need GNOME to find USB modems too. Other wishes would be a “select all” function n Evolution and improvements to the spam filter.
Like others have mentioned on this list in the past, a GTK/GNOME DTP package would be great too.
pppconfig
ttyACM0
good to go….
“Is there any way of getting rid of that annoying black rectangle that surrounds apps and flickers as you minimize them..”
I’m been looking for ages to find a good way to turn this effect off. I’m really sensitive to flicker and it really bugs me. No luck with gtweakui or anything yet.
Try turning off ‘animations’ in gconf editor if you would like to see the setting have absolutely no effect.
You CAN disable it with “configuration editor->metacity->general->reduced resources”, but this also makes it draw a weird wireframe box divided into nine squares when you drag windows, and turns off some other stuff too.
If it’s eye candy, it *should* be easy to disable IMHO.
–human