Speaking yesterday at Apple’s European conference, Apple Expo in Paris, Jobs said: “Microsoft is copying us with its operating system… Dell’s trying to copy us with its hardware. That’s fine but we’d like to not give them a map and show them where we’re going to go. At least they can follow our taillights.” Update: More from Jobs here.
Apple copied MS’ roadmap given at PDC 2003 and implemented it in their usual half-arsed way in Tiger.
Now they’re working on Quartz 2D Extreme (which finally gives them drawing on the GPU), 256×256 icon support, and full resolution-independence.
Apple is tight-lipped so they have plausible deniability (though it hasn’t been too plausible so far). They can sit back and see MS’ open research and roadmaps and take advantage of not having to create a nice developer story around the featureset, which leads to faster implementation that only compares visually but is not necessarily equal in functionality or extensibility.
I think you are right in many ways.
Its easy to say nothing and when you finaly tell people, just say you have been working on it for a long time. Far as anyone knows, apple could throw in a feature, or create a product just before launch.
But at anyrate, saying nothing until you release is the proper way to run a company. Otherwise you are just setting yourself up for failures, or being accused of being late, or your product not living up. Apple doesn’t set release dates for OS’s until about a month before release, kinda hard to miss a date at that point.
If they set launch dates, way in advance, they would miss them. Look at hardware, it comes out after the fact they intended to launch things sooner, but there were delays.
I think MS needs take notes. Just say nothing. Think about Vista if they had said nothing about it this whole time. Then when it comes, people would be “wow” about whats in it and not go on about it being late or feature cuts, since they would never know.
All companies take ideas from other companies, and thats not a bad thing. Also being second with a feature tends to be better, since you get to work out the mistakes made by the first company.
The original poster’s excerpt is from a post I made at the link below — I guess he agreed :-).
http://www.activewin.com/awin/comments.asp?HeadlineIndex=31622&Grou…
I think MS needs take notes. Just say nothing. Think about Vista if they had said nothing about it this whole time. Then when it comes, people would be “wow” about whats in it and not go on about it being late or feature cuts, since they would never know.
The problem with this approach in MS’ case is that they have to coordinate their plans w/ many partners. They also deal with large coorporations and have feedback loops at all levels from partners, to developers, to business and home customers. That feedback is what got other portions of WinFX besides Indigo shipping to downlevel platforms. It’s better to be up front and let people know your plans so they can not only plan their business decisions around your roadmaps, but also so they can participate in development of the product.
MS hasn’t given away everything planned for Vista, but has given enough information for each of their target audiences to prepare for it. The scedule has slipped, but there have been no feature cuts from what was promised at PDC 2 years ago. There’s actually been a couple additions because of the extra time.
How’s Dell copying Apple with hardware?
I think Jobs is talking about the recent announcement of Dell’s iPod like device. (Another portable music player).
I personally don’t give a crap about these PR games.
He’s referring to Dell’s DJ Ditty.
> He’s referring to Dell’s DJ Ditty.
which looks like any Sandisk, Creative or generic Korean flash player clone.
He’s referring to Dell’s DJ Ditty.
Which isn’t anything like the iPod. It’s just a portable music player, like any of the other players that are available on the market.
Apple was very late into the game of MP3-players, yet they like to think that they invented the darn thing.
To me it just sounds like he’s scared.
as microsoft will tell you, late == success a lot of times.
Competition has caught up, Zen Touch, iAudio, all of them offering a better product and better on the wallet. I have 2nd (dead after little over a 1 1/2 years) and 4th (dead after 1 year) gen ipods after they died… My Old creative zen is still working..
Recently I came to a point, do I want to buy a product that will last or do I want another ipod to die on me after a year usage, which is less than a dollar a day…
I got an iAudio, didn’t like it, got a zen touch, I love it, plus, its true the sound is better on wma than aac. And I do not have the problems like moving MP3 files from one computer to another … like work to home vica versa..
no more ipod for me! he can keep itunes store!
I here you! My first iPod mini was dead on arrival. My 2nd one, after 4 months or so, has the battery dying. Within 2 days it’s basically flat (using it around 5 hours in total). So much for 18 hours life span. It’s just getting worse as time goes by. I’ve vowed to get this sucker repaired under warranty and then I’m going to cut my losses, sell it on ebay and buy a Creative.
iPod mini sales in Australia were up 600% in the past year, but interestingly, complaints went up by MORE than 600%, by quite a fair bit more. The iPod mini does have very good sound (at least when coupled to a decent set of headphones), but their quality and reliability is totally disgraceful. I’ve had 2 other iPod mini owners (I only know another 2) say the same things – reliability is crap. The longer you own it, the more it mucks up.
I’d also recommend that you look at Apple’s warranty agreement – it’s up to them whether they repair it, replace it with a refurbished model, or give you a new one. I don’t mind options 1 & 3, but option 2 grates me badly – I paid for a *new* item, and I should expect it to be repaired as “new”.
Now – onto iTunes – what a piece of shit software. It’s crap. Totally and utterly crap. It hangs, burps, farts and shits itself. It’s just about the worst piece of software I’ve seen in nearly ten years of computing.
Onto Apple itself – I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it, they’re a disgraceful company. If the Apple fanboys don’t like me dissing Apple, tough friggen shit.
Dave
Whoa!
If flames were an alternative power source, this would be a nuclear reactor. Very good!
I know a few people in the Mac crowd [hey, I’m there too! Hi, me!] and I’ve heard of only one with some issues with an iPod. I don’t read a lot of complaints about iPods, which I definitely would have.
Also, I don’t know what you do with your iPod, that’s also going to be a factor.
I have been working with iTunes since version 1 and in all honesty, I can’t say a bad thing about it. My PC version hasn’t let me down either, but the Mac version… I can honestly say that I haven’t had a problem with it yet. Ever. It just totally rocks. I have also used WMP10 and there is just no compare between the two. WMP10 is convoluted to the point where it’s almost unworkable. I have no idea what I’m doing when I use it and all the buttons are in places where I least expect them. Only my opinion of course.
Anyway, I’m not trying to sway you from your point of view. It’s just a pity that you experienced so many problems with your iPod and, although I’m a flaming Apple fanboy, I do acknowledge that there are some issues with iPods and that Apple could have been a better job fixing those problems. I’m a fanboy, most certainly, but that does not at all mean I accept just anything Apple throws my way. I’m a critical fanboy.
I’m also not criticizing your preferred computing environment, I’m just very happy I don’t have to use it myself. I’m a nice, critical fanboy.
Have a good day.
Quote: “If flames were an alternative power source, this would be a nuclear reactor.”
Do I look like I really care? I call it as I see it. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less. If others don’t like it, tough shit.
Quote: “I don’t read a lot of complaints about iPods, which I definitely would have.”
yeah, well I have. And so has the ACCC. It’s currently investigating Apple to see if consumers have a case against the manufacturer.
Quote: “Also, I don’t know what you do with your iPod, that’s also going to be a factor.”
Normal usage. Nothing drastic. So don’t imply that I’m treating my iPod mini rought because I ain’t.
Quote: “I can’t say a bad thing about it.”
Well, I can. Windows XP, SP 1, AMD 3000+ XP, 512mb pc-4200 ddr RAM. It hangs exceptionally badly, for minutes at a time. When I go to eject the iPod mini, it ejects all of my DVD and CD Burner trays (but doesn’t eject the iPod mini) – go figure. I have three drives in my system (dvd player, dvd burner, cd burner), and it gets highly annoying to say the least.
My experiences are my experiences, I know of 5 people who’ve had iPod mini’s and within six months the batteries have shown definite signs of major issues. Only 1 other hasn’t had an issue, and that was with an original, first generation iPod mini.
I can tell you Apple’s modus operandi – deny issues vehemently with their products. Actually, lie through your teeth to the public, the very public that love your products. If enough public pressure occurs, Apple will eventually roll over and admit that there’s an issue, but that usually takes 6 months or more. Remember the high pitching noise for PowerMac G4 Quicksilver fans? Apple denied that for a long, long time. Jack issue on the original iPod mini (causing issues with iPod minis not playing, or making a horrid crackling noise, or just sounding shite) – took them six months to admit it. Want to know a secret? eMacs and the original iPod (all models) had a 1 in 10 dead on arrival rate. I know this because I used to work for Apple Australia and I’ve seen the documentation to prove it. 1 in 10 is pretty disgraceful for QA imho.
If something is bad, I’ll say it. You can mod my scores down all you want, and I won’t give a shit, I’ll still say it.
Dave
guess what. if you abuse the thing, the battery will die.
Guess what. You can change the battery in Zen.
If abusing the device kills the battery: don’t abuse the advice.
Do you throw a hammer at your tv-screen to see if that will do something interesting?
Do you stop your car by having it run into a block of concrete?
Why do I not abuse kit I buy? Because when I manage to break it I won. Yay for me. Of course, then I’m stuck with something that’s broken. Double dumb ass on me then, huh?
It breaks when you abuse it? Don’t do that then! [wisdom from the jargon file]
Yeah, competition has caught up alright. Whatever! Only problem is Apple’s market share seems to disagree with you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA O.K buddy.
What’s the matter mograth can’t make any money? Apple kicking your ass all over the place? Don’t feel like a real man?
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA 85% Don’t you wish it was you.
Microsoft and Dell still have a long way to go in terms of copying Apple’s OS and hardware. If I were Jobs I’d be more concerned about the up and coming music player companies, in particular iRiver which already makes better players than the iPods.
Millions upon millions of iPod owners don’t agree. iRiver doesn’t have an iTMS to go with it, either.
Millions upon millions of iPod owners don’t agree. iRiver doesn’t have an iTMS to go with it, either.
Right, no DRM – some of us consider that to be a plus.
and dont forget that it works as a removable drive on any os that supports usb storage media.
no need for a extra software to tranfer files to or from, be it from the vendor or anywhere else
Which one do you mean? I have no idea about iRiver’s offerings, but certainly if you set an iPod up for disk usage, you shouldn’t need drivers anywhere. It’s mass storage compliant.
Which one do you mean? I have no idea about iRiver’s offerings, but certainly if you set an iPod up for disk usage, you shouldn’t need drivers anywhere. It’s mass storage compliant.
Yeah, I’ve heard that too, but other people say it’s a bitch to copy music and/or data back off of it, so I dunno for sure how well it works.
from what i understand data should not be much of a problem, but when it comes to music its stored in one single blob of a file. either a database or something similar.
the iriver on the other hand are similar to the portable cd-players that can read data-cd containing music files. put the mp3s or whatever else format you prefer (they keep adding new ones in firmware updates!) into a specific subfolder of the hardrive and when the device is turned on it will scan said folder and subfolder.
When it comes to quality, if the Apple has more market share then it’s indicative of quality, and if Microsoft has more then it’s indicative of end-user stupidity. Well billions of people don’t even own portable mp3 players, so are we to infer that they all suck?
Not everyone can acces the iTMS. Even if I could, I can buy legit CDs released here in the Philippines for less than the price of an iTunes album download. I have herad that the iTMS in Japan lets you buy pre-paid cards so you can order songs from overseas (I stopped buying new Japanese CDs when the peso devaluation made it too expensive).
I didn’t like the iTunes software much at first. After playing with it for a few months I quite preferred it to Winamp (5.1 is really bloated so I went back to 2.95). Main reason why I’m gonna get an iPod mini while I still can.
GTKPod will let me use it with my Linux machine as well (not sure if the nano is supported already).
Dont worry, soon the apple folks will come in and start telling us how apple products (including ipod and apple hardware) is better for no aparent reason.
I got my iRiver and a 3rd gen iPod, and ill tell you with all the capabilities of the iRiver, Apple has a lot of catching up to do.
I agree, my 200$ Smartphone With WMP2k5 streams net radio, plays divx movies, wma / mp3’s including secure ones from music download sites, and plays games that *I* can download, has messenger and email, and is not much bigger than the nano.
It has a bit less storage space (Although expandable with Mini-SD), but ill be honest, I am at a computer 2-3 times a day, so even a gig of songs will last far longer than my intervals of being near a pc.
That’ll be your $200 phone with the $50 a month contract, the first year of which made up the rest of cost of the more than likely $500 phone.
Yes, but its a contract I would have gotten anyways, I need a cell phone. And I have 1 device to carry. An extra battery gives me long life.
follow thier taillights eh? looking at thier performance in the computer world compared to microsoft and dell, it seems he may be mistaken. Apple products are excellent, dont get me wrong, but bashing two companies that are enormous in comparison, just seems silly. I doubt either of them are concerned with his comments, and laugh all the way to the bank at the end of the day.
hopefully this x86 move Apple is making may lower thier prices (crossing fingers) and put them in a better position to critisize and be heard.
Don’t worry. That’s just marketing FUD. These people (and by “these” I really mean all people (MS, Apple or Dell) will say anything to get their partners/investors interested.
oh yeah, the any publicity is good publicity strategy. talk crap about another buisness and your bound to get a few nieve believers/new customers
Do you see the prices for the shuffel, iPod Nano and how their priced competitively… well guess what, when Apple is given those huge discounts from Intel, you’ll see a price drop in hardware cost.
I find the iPod slightly overhyped too. For a number of reasons.
1) Apple *by far* was not the first to release a HDD-based mp3 player. Creative, for instance, had it’s Nomad C more than a year before Apple released its iPod 1st Gen. It has a higher capacity too.
2) As far as online reports, lawsuits and more can tell me: the iPod, in all its incarnations, isn’t as of good build quality as Apple’s Mac products. Battery problems are abundant, for instance.
3) My most important point: HDD-based mp3 players are not the best solution for portable music. They are fragile, expensive (not just Apple’s, other brands too), limited (as in, fixed storage size).
The best solution for portable audio these days is Sony’s new HiMD. This is a continuation and huge improvement over the already good MD/NetMD/MDLP product line. A few advantages that HiMD has over HDD-based mp3 players:
– They weigh less;
– Can record from any source, anytime;
– One 5$ HiMD disk holds 1 GB of storage, any storage that is;
– MD disks are resiliant, and due to their hard plastic casing virtually scratch-proof;
– The MD technique is much less sensitive to dropping it on the floor etc. than HDDs are. My portable MD recorder fell down stairs numerous times; it got bathed in Cola (don’t ask me how), and it still works. Try that with an mp3 player;
– All old MD/NetMD/MDLP disks are automatically reformatted in HiMD format to drastically increase capacity (backwards compatibility).
– Expandable: capacity is unlimited because you can always buy new disks;
– “Open”: any operating system with USB mass storage drivers is supported by HiMD.
– Cheaper!
Just to name a few. HiMD also has some advantages over the old MD/NetMD/MDLP standards:
– Can now contain data;
– mp3 is supported (so no nescesity for Sony’s format);
HDD-based mp3 players might be popular, but HiMD is vastly superior. *Also* to the iPod.
PS: I forgot:
– Better battery life. 32 hours of continuous playback!
There is a portable MDLP recorder from JVC that has 315 (!!) hours of continuous playback!
http://www.minidisc.org/part_JVC_XM-C3.html
Not all iPods are HD based… The iPod shuffle and nano are Flash based.
I think you guys all miss the point.
Apple has created a solution from hardware to software. They have made the best compromises they could at any given time. It’s a balance between negotiating with record companies and making something useful and relevant. The iPod/iTunes solution is by far the best, and most consistant way of organizing and buying music. Sony’s trying to mimic that of late… but most people who have bought into the iPod solution have already made the choice… they have something that works better than any other haphazzard solution. Yeah, some features aren’t ‘the best,’ but they are more suitable to more people… Let’s not forget the interface and the elegance of the design. I haven’t seen a player that can compete with that.
IMHO Jb
I haven’t seen a player that can compete with that.
I actually do not like the iPod interface. I cannot normally use that clickwheel thing, I always overshoot the item I need.
—
I’m of an “older” generation I guess. I do not like mp3 players *in general*. I prefer to have one disk for one album (or sometimes one disk for one artist). I’m of the Cd generation; I don’t download music (legally or illegally), I still buy my CDs the old-fashioned way, in a shop, preferably Pop-Eye in Alkmaar (Boterstraat 10, http://www.pop-eye.nl/ ). Heck, I even have 180 LPs and a LP player.
That’s why MD is so perfect for me. It allows completel control over what music you carry with you, you can put one album on a disk, or 40. You can have 1GB of storage, or 100GB of storage. It’s just more versatile.
Thom,
I guess us older generations have difficulties with wheels? I hear what you’re sayin’ regarding ‘overshooting’ etc but I can’t think of a better way, or simpler. The wheel works as best or better than any other interface that I have tried. I am of land of old myself, remembering the spent coal that was used to heat mygrade school in Brooklyn NY (this is no lie). I remember the coming of the cassette and how the record companies dealt with people copying music. (BTW I’m 41, not old). Sonic quality has all gone downhill from the album/high end record player but the AVERAGE quality of players have improved. I still prefer an old Scully to do mix downs but comuters and dats have killed that.
So, as I said “I haven’t seen a player that can compete with that.”
BTW I work as a RUI (as opposed to GUI) designer for a major manufacturer of professional music gear. (RUI=Real User Interface). Their are always compromises and balances between function, form, usability and electronics. To make everything work together is the art.
IMHO Jb
Why didn’t you just paste the whole press release for the HiMD? If the majority of the population actually cared for the kitchen sink of features, don’t you think that player would sell more? For you it works out fine but for everyone else who satisfied their Apple lust has an iPod with some pretty good software to boot.
Apple doesn’t do half-assed solutions like everyone else. Like GG said Apple “created a solution from hardware to software”. And the iPod is functional for age groups of 4 to 99.
Flash drives are the future. The problem was that three years ago they weren’t big enough for a “portable jukebox.” They’re not really today either, but in another year or two they should be plenty large enough.
And now you’re seeing stuff like the Nano. 4GB, fits in the key pocket of your jeans and still has a nice interface.
People didn’t buy iPods for lastibility; after 3 months people new the 1st gen iPods were junk. They bought them for their:
a.) Looks.
b.) Cool factor (Peer pressure).
c.) Interface.
The only thing innovative on iPod has been that interface. And that’s really the only thing that seperates it today.
It’s still plagued by:
1.) A bad reputation.
2.) Unreplaceable batteries.
3.) A scummy company selling it which doesn’t refund the customers they ripped off on the first gen.
4.) Lack of support for good formats: ie ogg and flac.
5.) Someone tell me if this has changed, but my friends have complained about not being able to get songs from their iPod to their PC?
6.) They’re too big, and come with the worst headphones…. Seriously, we’re gonna have a generation of deaf people
.
funny, My First Gen is still going strong. seems that people just cannot take care of their devices.
Every data point you don’t like is an outlier. That’s the spirit.
I have had an Sony MD for four years and I really tried to make it part of my life. It simply didn’t work out… had to write stuff to a disc (took a long time, had to do it manually), discs had limited capacity and you needed to carry a few to have something with you for any mood. 4 discs to carry one audiobook, hahahaha.
Bought an iPod and music and podcasts went automatic to it through itunes and that made me use it everyday in contrary to the MD which I most of the times simply forgot or left it home because I didn’t have the right content on it.
Sony might have superior hardware, Apple simply has the end to end solution.
And for the record: I’m of the LP generation (3500 LP’s), with a lot of CD’s too (2000) and an one of the 60+ ITMS customers.
oh, and the iPod to PC thing is true, because it is a light copy protection scheme designed to keep apple safe from the Sue Happy RIAA.
there are a bagillion tools out there that are free and will let you take the songs off, no problem.
“oh, and the iPod to PC thing is true, because it is a light copy protection scheme designed to keep apple safe from the Sue Happy RIAA.”
aniother funny thing, copy protected CDs cannot be copied to iTunes on Windows but will do on Mac.
Rememebr folks, we’s be dealing with sleezy record company execs. The file formats are nothing, what’s the big deal is how the DRM schemes are (they are ALL proprietary, even if they can be licensed). Apple just happens to use an open standards container (AAC) and M$ uses a proprietary (WMA) container.
thing is that himd have 1GB storage on a magnetoptical media thats about as cheap as a recordable cd.
compare that to a similar capacity flash, the cost is about the same as a cd/dvd-burner…
maybe the size is worth it, but i dont have a problem with the size of md players…
Well, HiMD and MD devices might be a little bigger than yer average off-the-shelff mp3playr, but it also does a whole lot more than yer average mp3 player.
Those mp3 players more often than not cannot record with a decent quality from any source. Also, they are all of questionable build quality. When you buy a MD player/recorder from Sony you assure yourself of having a good quality piece of equipment that lasts a lot longer than any iPod (looking at how many people complain about broken iPods). Also, MD players all have screens, something that cannot be said of the Shuffle. And you can edit fiel information straight from the device itself– can that be done on an mp3 player or iPod? As far as I can recall, it most often can’t be done.
Another plus is obviously that MD has replacable batteries… And the lower-end models use simple AA batteries.
hear hear…
only problem right now is that you need sonicstage/connect player to transfer music to/from the himds.
I have somewhere around 40GB of music. I hate copying music to a player; I only ever want to have to do it once. I also hate not having all my music with me – 1GB may well be enough for any realistic length of time, but my problem is that I always find I don’t have the *right* 1GB with me (I feel in the mood to listen to an album I didn’t bring).
So how is a HiMD player better than a 40-60GB hard disk player, for me? Do you suggest I buy 40 HiMD discs and carry ’em all around with me?
So how is a HiMD player better than a 40-60GB hard disk player, for me? Do you suggest I buy 40 HiMD discs and carry ’em all around with me?
I don’t need all my music with me, so that doesn’t count for me. Hell, I would need three iPods to carry all my music with me, were I to convert all my CDs and LPs to mp3…
I usually listen to only one or two albums a day, and I only have as total travel time of 3 hrs, of wich an hour or two are with friends.
Other than that, a HDD isn’t made for portability. It’s like playing catch with expensive china every day.
having had several minidisk units, i dissagree.
the build quality is excellent.they last long on batteries. they sound great. Everything about minidisks is great – except sony’s software. which is complete crap. sony’s software made me hate my minidisc within a few months. And most of the new units don’t even have a line in. so you are forced to do everything through their software.
if i diddn’t have to use their software. If you could just copy files to it. and it would play mp3’s and ogg files. it would be awesome. i would have one. probably 2.
ohhh, nm i diddn’t read it. your saying you can put mp3’s on the himd unit, and it can play them back?? and i can also use this in linux?
Underneath all the boasting, jobs really has a point. When was the last time you saw MicroSoft really innovate something? Something actually usefull I mean.
Apple is expected to sell 41 million iPods in 2006- all those people buying such a crappy device!
You are correct, and it is very much different than the Windows marketshare analogy because unlike being forced fed Windows, people actually choose to buy an iPod and it works on Windows or OS X.
Microsoft is a very innovative company. They were the first to develop an operating system whose security is such a joke that it is a vector for 70,000 viruses. They’ve also spawned the spyware industry, helping malicious coders invade the privacy of MS customers. Indeed, MS is pure innovation. No one makes an OS quite like theirs.
Mod parent up. There is little innovation at Microsoft that does not require another industry to fix later. As the saying goes; “Mac OS X – Beacuse it was easier to make UNIX user-friendly than it was to fix Windows”!
Wow. Why do people hate Apple so much? Is it just that some people hate competition or feel threatened by a product they don’t have?
Or is it that some people hate the trash talk from Jobs? Shame they failed to speak up when Dell and Gates spewed that sort of crap.
People hate Apple because…
1.) 1st Gen iPods crapped out on them.
2.) Jobs talks too much and sues his fan sites.
3.) Apple has failed, on multiple occasions, to give significantly back to the projects that make its OS.
4.) iTMS is still only available to Windows and OS X. They forget those other OS’s which have almost as many users as OS X does.
5.) Other hardware failures (first G4 ibooks, G4 Cubes, etc).
6.) Steve Jobs talks too much.
7.) Steve Jobs talks too much.
8.) Steve Jobs talks too much!
People hate Ballmer too, he’s also very … into the tech world (for very different reasons)..
It’s the quiet ones people seem to be ok with. I’ve noticed there’s less Bill Gates hating now that he’s not the CEO and rarely talks..
People hate RMS, he’s vocal. They seem to be ok with Linus, he’s quiet. People hate ESR, he’s semi-vocal.
See!
Your post makes little to no sense with no relevancy. Seems to me that you are stuck using Linux and WANT to use the iTMS.
Nope. My post was partially humor, which you’ve obviously missed. But that’s ok, my humor is sometimes hard to catch without inflection.
I’d really like to see iTunes ported to Linux. It’d be nice to see Apple give something back. Personally, I’d never use iTunes. I’ve chosen to personally stop buying records from major labels (not that I bought more than 5 cd’s in my life anyway); until they treat their artists better (stop owning their work) and figure out that $18 is ridiculous.
Then I pointed out that it’s not like Steve Jobs is getting picked on. There’s a bit of a pattern to Tech people who get “hated on.” I was attempting to show the pattern.
As for relevancy:
rel·e·vance P Pronunciation Key (rl-vns)
n.
Pertinence to the matter at hand.
My post has 100% relevance to its parent. Please, don’t insult me.
I even pointed out that Gates has been pretty quiet lately. I don’t know what he’s talking about with Dell; I’ve not heard a Published peep out of Dell in a long time. Maybe Dell’s words just never make it onto the news sites I visit? Or maybe he just doesn’t say anything memorable.
This is the point where I resist the urge to slash back at you with a retort like: “Maybe you’re just an Apple fanatic who can’t stand to see your precious Jobs made light of!” But, I’m nice, so I’ll only be sneaky and include it while saying I’m not really saying it. (Once again, humor).
I’d really like to see iTunes ported to Linux. It’d be nice to see Apple give something back. Personally, I’d never use iTunes. I’ve chosen to personally stop buying records from major labels (not that I bought more than 5 cd’s in my life anyway); until they treat their artists better (stop owning their work) and figure out that $18 is ridiculous.
Why what did Apple take from linux that you are so pissed off about?
Are you and artist that was wronged by the record compaies? Britney spears, 50 cent and the others seem to be perfectly happy with thier millions. Cest la vie.
Are you and artist that was wronged by the record compaies? Britney spears, 50 cent and the others seem to be perfectly happy with thier millions. Cest la vie.
Ask Courtney Love, whether she’s happy that her band got $200k from each $1000000 of income from sold albums.
Ask Prince (Symbol, whatever his name is today) or George Michael whether they were happy with how their labels treated them (forced to do another album, etc).
Ask Fiona Apple, whether she’s happy that one of her finished albums will not be released and sold, due to management/marketing decision.
Recently I read an interview with Bo Diddley (can link, but only in Czech) – he also did little money from music, though he was famous. And is pissed about it.
Britney and 50 Cents probably don’t create their music (my guess), so they cannot be bothered by who “owns” that music
GP is quite right with recording companies’ behaviour.
Like I said “that is life” deal with it. Courtney love has more problems than just the record companies. Prince unfortunately is a has been.
Nothing I have read indicates that Fiona Apple is really pissed.
Let me tell you something everything is business in show buisness. The people involved know what they are into. Pick any thing, and you will find enough examples of people pissed about it. Be it a job, life, thier significant others, etc etc.
Oh yes and, I don’t have money for music anyway. Seriously, it’s just not high enough on my wish list considering the money I have to spend on my wish list.
Well, until Evanescence puts out another album anyway, I suppose.
Very few people would say they hate Steve Jobs and that he talks too much. The man is the public speaking maestro of all maestros. RMS isn’t arrogant enough to compare himself on such a stage with Steve. For sure Linus isn’t that dense–he saves his arrogance for control of Linux.
Reality: most public speakers SUCK. Most CEOs had timing to get their jobs. Most CEOs suck. Most CEOs in get replaced. Most successful IT CEOs move into the Chairman role and let future CEOs get shredded.
Bill Gates founding Microsoft makes any other CEO, including Wolfram’s co-founder–horrible beyond words at public speaking–more tolerable albeit for the simple fact he is so scared he keeps his talks short.
Gates nasally rambles on about crap.
McNeeely is a frustrated Hockey player who has never fully been comfortable in his skin.
Ellison is so entrenched in his own world of martial arts that he is oblivious to what people think of his public performances–you’re all peons.
Jobs has turned a company headed for Chapter 11 3 months after the NeXT merger into a 42 Billion dollar and climbing market leader in the markets it heavily targets.
Build an end-to-end superior ease of use solution for an iPod killer, find a charismatic speaker who is the bridge between the technologies and consumer and I have no doubt Linux will rip away a very solid portion of Microsoft’s dominance.
Oops I forgot! You will have one hell of a long R&D cycle, not to mention HIG issues before you can get such a smooth ease-of-use solution possible–we linux users have a ways to go before our shit stinks as good as we say it does.
Yea, it’s awful. The OSS world is too full of doers, we need more speakers
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You’re right. Jobs is a great CEO. He’s very good at being a tech CEO to boot. But yes, a lot of people don’t like him. I, for one, see him as dishonest. That doesn’t mean I can name a single CEO I do like, but I’m not gonna let that be an excuse
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And actually, RMS can be pretty arrogant. Ever heard about how it should be GNU Linux?
Gates is pretty quiet these days (I know he’s not CEO now). Ballmer, now there’s an entertaining CEO. Right or wrong, he’s fun to watch; whether you’re chanting developers or laughing.
Build an end-to-end superior ease of use solution for an iPod killer, find a charismatic speaker who is the bridge between the technologies and consumer and I have no doubt Linux will rip away a very solid portion of Microsoft’s dominance.
Oops I forgot! You will have one hell of a long R&D cycle, not to mention HIG issues before you can get such a smooth ease-of-use solution possible–we linux users have a ways to go before our shit stinks as good as we say it does.
you know what would work just about as good as an ipod interface wise? rember those old cell phones with the click wheel on the side and you moved it with your thumb until you got what you needed and then you pressed it in to select it?
that would work great, better than any attempt at copying the ipod interface so far. My only gripe with the ipod has been that the click wheel goes way too fast and isn’t adjustable.
Copying itunes would be pretty easy for a good linux teams I’m sure. It would be pretty easy to improve on too. Apple is screwing it up by adding more and more to it. The heart and soul of the app used to be lack of features, now users have to learn a bunch of new crap with each release.
For the record, and in responce to a differnt post, the ipod and a sony minidisc player are completly seperate beasts for seperate needs. Its like the difference between a unicycle and a motorized wheelchair. Rarely would somebody go shopping for one and then learn what he really needed was the other. Reading crap so far off topic really chaps my hide.
I honestly believe that these other companies can easily regain the market from Apple. The secret to iPod’s success is the iTunes software, the online music store and then the iPod. So to beat Apple, Microsoft just needs to open a killer online music shop and develop a closely integrated music management software. Then they just basically need to sign a deal with all the hardware manufacturers to use their software solution. The music player in essence becomes like the PC market, you got Microsoft supplying the software (giving a very consistent feeling) and you have Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, etc. supplying the hardware.
IIRC, they’ve tried. The problem has been that they don’t realize that: People don’t like WMP.
They need to build a music program that’s not WMP. But I believe Napster is a wma store? Among others. There are tons of wma players.
Microsoft knows that in the end commoditized hardware will win. So it lets hardware do that, doesn’t make a killer player. Then it writes software for those, and waits for prices to kill iPod.
What did it take for PC’s? About 5 years? It should be faster with iPods (they’re starting cheaper).
Who cares who was first with the portable music player, or even who has the “best” portable music player. Apple has created a very good music player, excellent software, and an overall powerful and easy to use user experience. That overall polished user experience is what sells and will continue to dominate the market.
“I agree, my 200$ Smartphone With WMP2k5 streams net radio, plays divx movies, wma / mp3’s including secure ones from music download sites, and plays games that *I* can download, has messenger and email, and is not much bigger than the nano. ”
Thats geek shit. Mom can buy an iPod and make it work. Its easy to use and understand.
I do agree however they are not very well built. I am on my 5th iPod since launch…though I tend to be a tad rough with things
The think that iRiver and all those other comanies will never have is what Apple has already established, a household name. Sony made the Walkman, every portable tape player in the 80s was compared to it and most were even refered to as “walkmans”. iPod is the household name for digital music player. You have 50 Cent rapping about it and Martha Stewart raving about it. Durability, battery life and cost effectiveness NEVER overpowers trends.
iPod is the household name for digital music player.
The odd thing is– this isn’t the case in my country (the Netherlands). Here, an mp3 player is referred to as, well, quite literally: “mp3 player”. Nobody here calls an mp3 player of brand X “iPod”.
This however was and still is the case with Walkman. Walkman is a Sony trademark, yet every portable cassette player was called a walkman. This is not the case for the mp3 player/iPod (well, not here anyway).
Other than that, iPods have by no means 80% market share in this country. Of my friends, family and colleagues, very few have an iPod, though most do have some sort of mp3 player.
It is always a dangerous thing to extrapolate a product’s success to other countries than your own. The fact that the iPod is doing so well in the States does not automatically mean that they are doing equally great accross the globe.
For instance, Robbie Williams is one of the best selling artists in Europe. Yet, he did not make inroads into the US much at all.
Why do people love/hate certain companies so much? Do you people think they actually care about you?
At the end of the day, they do and say whatever they can to get money out of your pockets. Plain and simple. People really need to stop being blinded by emotional attachments to companies and view products on their merits and not by how you feel about the company that produced it.
Its also sad that people actually believe PR crap like this:
“We put iTunes on Windows and kind of helped them out there. Microsoft has to earn a living too – we’ll leave some software for them to write.”
I dislike Apple on its merits… I really like their PC hardware, it’s good stuff. I like OS X, it’s not bad. I don’t like iPods, or any other players because I’m sick of seeing people carrying them. It’s not envy, it’s annoyance with the lack of people talking to other people.
Frankly, the idea that all companies must be evil is the biggest problem with our country today. It gives people the perfect excuse to be entirely selfish when they shop. Buy from the guy with the best deal for you they say. Forget the future. So people go and buy the cheapest product, or the fastest product (but usually the cheapest), or the prettiest. They ignore any attrocities the company has done: Even not holding to their warranty agreements.
You know, people still buy Best Buy warranties! If they thought three years into the future they’d run from their and buy a Dell and a Dell warranty. Why? Because Dell honors their warranty, many Best Buy outlets do not. I’ve seen PC’s from their shop (on warranty service) that had the disk cables pulled out: That’s no way to leave it.
People shop at WalMart. Even though they see an undermanned store full of underpaid and unhappy employees. They ignore the Target because it’s 1% more expensive. Even though it may be full of happy employees: Or at least employees who aren’t miserable and have time to help.
“You know, people still buy Best Buy warranties! If they thought three years into the future they’d run from their and buy a Dell and a Dell warranty. Why? Because Dell honors their warranty, many Best Buy outlets do not. I’ve seen PC’s from their shop (on warranty service) that had the disk cables pulled out: That’s no way to leave it.”
What???
My sister-in-law got a laptop from Best Buy with an extended 3 year warranty. A little more than a year after she got it, it stopped working, it wouldn’t turn on. She took it to BestBuy, and they ended up giving her a brand new laptop slightly better than what she had, for NOTHING. A little less than a year later after that, she cracked the screen. They replaced the screen, free of charge as well.
My brother and I got a laptop from there as well last year in June. Recently, it started overheating really bad. Couldn’t use it for more than 10 minutes. We toopk it in last week and there will be no charge.
Nothing but good experiences with BestBuy warranties here.
Frankly, the idea that all companies must be evil is the biggest problem with our country today. It gives people the perfect excuse to be entirely selfish when they shop. Buy from the guy with the best deal for you they say. Forget the future. So people go and buy the cheapest product, or the fastest product (but usually the cheapest), or the prettiest. They ignore any attrocities the company has done: Even not holding to their warranty agreements.
Name a company that has a squeaky clean record. Atleast one person in the world will have a complain on any given company on the planet.
You know, people still buy Best Buy warranties! If they thought three years into the future they’d run from their and buy a Dell and a Dell warranty. Why? Because Dell honors their warranty, many Best Buy outlets do not. I’ve seen PC’s from their shop (on warranty service) that had the disk cables pulled out: That’s no way to leave it.
Funny you mention Dell… I have meet a lot of Dell customers who are very unhappy with dell’s service and warranty. I used to be a happy dell customer in 1998. But just cancelled an order with Dell because I kept getting bounced around from rep to rep before they even shipped the order. If dell treats purchasing customers like they treated me I would hate to send a thing to Dell under warrnty.
People shop at WalMart. Even though they see an undermanned store full of underpaid and unhappy employees. They ignore the Target because it’s 1% more expensive. Even though it may be full of happy employees: Or at least employees who aren’t miserable and have time to help
People shop for thier convience and not for your idealogical beliefs, get over it.
Frankly, the idea that all companies must be evil is the biggest problem with our country today.
wtF? Really, I was so wrong. I thought maybe the biggest problem in this country today was that the class that ages ago decided it was in power has become hellbent on ruining the lives of the peseants by lobbying the uglier parts of the human soul into unhealty competition between artifically created class structers, promoting hate, racism, and deception, and preaching capitalism as a religion, in a vieled effort for said ruling class to expand it assumed power and wealth. Turns out its that people don’t trust walmart enough. say la ve.
2nd biggest problem facing america today? non user servicable batteries in portable mp3 players.
>Its also sad that people actually believe PR crap like >this:
>
>”We put iTunes on Windows and kind of helped them out >there. Microsoft has to earn a living too – we’ll leave >some software for them to write.”
It takes a shrewd person to know that this was a tongue in cheek expression from Jobs.
WHen I read what most of the current post have to say it shows most of your wallet and education levels. im sure most of you would drive a chevy colbolt vs a bmw 3. Its so much cheaper and they were first to make that colour. Apple is one of the best… they sell plenty.. And yes you know that alot of companys copy them. its a fact. and its visable.
I’m confused about this. Are you linking people buying apple products to those who are more intelligent?
Does intelligence equal more money? What does any of this have to do with the Chevy Cobalt vs BMW 3?
I think i’m more intelligent because I spent $5K on a 2 year old Cavalier than more than twice that on a 2 year old BMW. Since I bought the car I haven’t needed to spend any money on it mechanically. It’s just been standard upkeep.
I get 25-30 miles to the gallon. I fill up my car once a month.
Now…how am I less intelligent than the stupid arse who bought the BMW3? Or hell even a two year old BMW? The car costs more than twice as much…what benefits does it give? Does it get me 60 miles to the gallon?
Spending money != Intelligence…As much as the companies in this world would like you to believe.
For some people, owning Apple products is the lower-class-yuppie equivalent of owning a BMW.
Now…how am I less intelligent than the stupid arse who bought the BMW3? Or hell even a two year old BMW? The car costs more than twice as much…what benefits does it give? Does it get me 60 miles to the gallon?
How about not flipping over and killing you during a highspeed defensive manuer on the freeway? How about being more fun to drive, more comfortable and luxurious?
I guess you are one of those people who think that being frugal is more intelligent than living life. I am sure the person driving the BMW would die a lot happier having lived life thier way. NO one takes money back when they die.
Owning a BMW is not living life. It’s spending 30K+ on a card.
Apple may not have invented the mp3 device, but everyone is copying the ipod interface now. A quick glance at circuit city hosts an array of thick credit card sized mp3 devices with round corners and a wheel in the center. Oh, even the screen looks eerily familiar.
Comparing my original RIO player to my brother in laws 20gb IPod, well there’s no comparison.
The shuffle still beats the other offerings for price/storage. Which device is offering better? I’ve haven’t seen these at any stores, and I don’t want to hear about anything with a contract! Multiply the price of those by 100.
The reality is, that no other company has a complete solution that is better than iTunes/iPod. That’s why they sell so well. Just look at the numbers (I believe it’s somewhere around 80% of the US market). Clearly, the others have to be playing catch-up. You don’t have to like Apple’s product, it doesn’t even have to be the best (or better than 80%), but they are doing something right.
As far as the OS, I think they just got sick of Microsoft commenting on their revolutionary OS enhancements. I don’t fault Microsoft for taking ideas from others, but they have to stop implying that they were first.
rain wrote:
“Which isn’t anything like the iPod. It’s just a portable music player, like any of the other players that are available on the market. Apple was very late into the game of MP3-players, yet they like to think that they invented the darn thing. To me it just sounds like he’s scared.”
Then, I suggest you have your hearing checked.
I don’t see how he can’t be scared. iPod is basically on the top of the market, and it’s only got one way to go. Microsoft has the same problem with Office and Windows.
I think Jobs does have to fear the commoditization of mp3 players: It will happen eventually. The best he can do is hold it out as long as possible. And I’m sure he will.
Your parent is crazy though about the older mp3 players. Those things were nothing like iPods. They were walkman replacements for joggers. They weren’t for what iPods are for: Taking your whole music collection with you, all day, to browse through at will. Classic iPods, as many people know now, aren’t for jogging. Maybe iPod Nano is though, iPod shuffle is.
Dell admires and is jealeous of Apple at the sametime. Dell wants OS X for it’s computers and I don’t blame them.
Dell could sell millions of copies of OS X for Apple.
Dell will sell anything customers want, at least the majority or if their profit margin is acceptable. Apple probably feels that licensing software alone is not as profitable. M$ make most of it’s dough with their enterprise sales, business sales etc. The home market is shifting and M$ unleashes the X-Box which, eventually, will replace PCs at home… M$ wants to be able to charge a subscription for the use of their software, like the cable companies or telecoms… They are toughting a one stop solution from the computer standpoint except they failed to realize the potential of hooking the customers first with a solution for entertainment, music, then movies… games will follow too.
Apple provides the best compromise for entertainment at home. From creating your own DVDs and Music. As Apple tried to build these technologies at the core of their system as opposed to M$ who seemed only concerned with DirectX and games.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Yahoo in the music space…7 bucks a month for unlimited downloads has to be killing Apple’s music store sales.
steve jobs knows how to stick it to em
top of the market in the US and some other countries, but certainly not all, and even in the US with its 80% or whatever, i think it shows they have another direction they can go rather then just down..
ah if only 80% was the maximum one could have.. the operating system world would be far more exciting if microsoft only had 80%
a reason he might not be scared.. ipod sales are still increasing, market share is still increasing, still plenty of folks who dont own a portable music player yet.. and i mean _plenty_.. there’ve been what, 25 million or so ipods sold to date? theres a good 300 million out there whom can afford one (at least) still
top of the market in the US and some other countries, but certainly not all, and even in the US with its 80% or whatever, i think it shows they have another direction they can go rather then just down..
ah if only 80% was the maximum one could have.. the operating system world would be far more exciting if microsoft only had 80%
a reason he might not be scared.. ipod sales are still increasing, market share is still increasing, still plenty of folks who dont own a portable music player yet.. and i mean _plenty_.. there’ve been what, 25 million or so ipods sold to date? theres a good 300 million out there whom can afford one (at least) still
“I’m SJ, I’m your God. I’m always right. Other sucks. I know everything…blabla….”
What a megalomaniac!
Steve, just keep selling overpriced mp3 players and shut up. You’re not making sense, you never have in the comouter industry.
We’re glad you bought a phone OS to pilot an mp3 device. It worked well, so stick with that (if you can, everybody else offers video now…).