Late last week in an online article The OmniGroup president, William Shipley (makers of OmniWeb for MacOSX) opined that Microsoft’s Macintosh Business Unit (MacBU) would eventually stop development of Internet Explorer for the Macintosh.“Once they’ve killed off the competition in the Mac market, their best move is to start ignoring or wounding IE for the Mac, so that Mac users have a reason to switch to Windows,” Shipley said. “Remember, Microsoft is in the business of selling Windows,” he added. “That’s what they do. Right now, they’re writing free system software for Apple. In fact, it’s less than free; they paid a large sum to force Apple to make IE the browser of choice for the last five years. Why would they do this? To kill Netscape. What happens when Netscape is dead? They bail.”
The MacBU’s General Manager Kevin Browne says that work on Internet Explorer is ongoing and that Shipley’s comments are wrong. Fact is though, the Mac users are stuck for a long time now with IE 5.1 while its Windows counterpart is now preparing for its first 6.0 SP1. In fact, IE 5.1 under Macintosh is still below par when compared to IE for Windows or even other browsers, with many important rendering and other bugs that still have to get fixed.
In addition we should not be forgetting the rumors that want Apple to try to use Mozilla’s Gecko HTML engine and create a new default browser for the Macintosh platform.
He shoudl write a book: “FUD for Fun and Profit!”
I think the guy has a point.
I mean, Microsoft hasn’t *really* upgraded IE, neither there are beta versions sent to beta testers (we would know if they were), and the current browser has some huge, 100% reproducible bugs, that are still not fixed after years. I mean, come’on, what’s going on here?
And also, I find a bit mysterious the fact that Apple is going so full of strength with their “Switch” marketing campaign, a campaign like never before. Have you actually read its FAQs? The campaign itself is so against Windows, in a way that Apple had never revealed before.
Personally, I believe we got a schism in the relationship of the two companies, started a few months ago. While Microsoft agreed to work on a newer version of Office for Mac, I think that something weird is going on behind the scenes.
Microsoft creates software for the mac that is bundled with Windows (Media Player, IE) and Office. Microsoft really doesn’t generate any revenue by giving IE away for free to mac users. If they make any money off of mac users it would probably be the sale of Microsoft Office.
So what incentive does Microsoft have to keep updating IE? To make the Office users happy? What if they were to only bundle IE6 for Mac with their Office Suite?
I think it is time that Apple created their own web browser, whether or not it is based on Mozilla/Gecko or not. They would have more control over it and they wouldn’t have to worry about when the Mac team at Microsoft would get around to making fixes.
Eugenia, its no big deal but is:
“William Shipley (makers of OmniWeb for MacOSX) opined that”
suppose to be opened?
i think that apple could benefit from atleast having a browser stored away, just to keep microsoft honest(altho i seems like a small weapon) atleast apple wouldn’t have to be dependent on MS. I would like to see maybe something like chimera be adopted and have the mac seal of approval. there is almost no market for browsers(save omniweb), apple can’t expect to make profit from it, so i don’t think we are gonna see apple throw all its weight around just for its own browser.
also, i think this is why IE on mac is half a version(?) behind, MS can’t make money on it, so why make it better?
I agree about Apple making its own browser. The only problem i see with it; MS does a lot of little special tricks to try and keep the dominate web browser. Can Apple get a hold of the code to make their browser work with MS pages. IE is old and outdated for the MAC. Even the latest versions are not streamlined for MACs. Every time a page load on idfferent browsers. notice how IE is one of the slowest? I think this would be a good article Browsers for the MAC.
If any you want me to include in my article please Email me
http://www.maccomputers.com
Firstly, this report comes from Omnigroup, maker of Omniweb, a browser that competes with MS IE on the Mac, so, this report can hardly be considered impartial. Secondly, Microsoft has stated time and time again that they are not going to drop support for the Mac. Contrary to popular belief, having Apple around is a good thing. Apple, by limiting itself to the PPC chip, has insured that they will never be direct competitors to Microsoft, and, keeping IE and Office around on the Mac make sure that no other browser/office suite will become prominent on that platform. What Microsoft is scared of is OS’s that threaten Microsoft on it’s own platform, namely, Linux. Supporting Macs keeps Linux at bay on the desktop and creates a barrier for software developers to stay with Microsoft on Intel instead of Linux. If the develop a PPC port, it is ussualy an afterthough due to the complexities of porting to another hardware archetecture.
Rumors and damn rumors, move on.
Even with IE around, dont you think Apple could make a better browser. IE sucks for the MAC. incompatabilities, SLOW ect. Apple could do it and well.
think about it. MS HAS to give IE away for free, for if they didn’t, the anit-trust lawyers would be all over them, more, than they are now. If Apple develops their own browser, then, that gives MS an excuse to publically announce that they will no longer make IE versions for the Mac. If Apple silently supports another browser (using it in demos, as they have), MS must still work on IE, and lose money on it in the mean time.
So, by Apple keeping IE as default, MS must develop it, and therefor is forced to waste more money. Probably almost as much as they did on the research into the new look n’ feel of XP
Jobs is a sneaky son of a b&tch, so I would not put this type of thinking past him one bit.
>>>So, by Apple keeping IE as default, MS must develop it, and therefor is forced to waste more money.
The entire mac division at microsoft has only 150 employees.
http://www.macworld.com/2002/04/10/microsoft.html
Microsoft spent more money on stamps each year than on Mac development. I mean if Steve Jobs is thinking about such trivial things — then Apple is really in big trouble.
>”William Shipley (makers of OmniWeb for MacOSX) opined that”
suppose to be opened?
No, opined is correct. It is the verb of opinion. And besides, Eugenia didn’t write that, it’s from the article.
Funny I don’t see anyone mention Mozilla 1.0 on MacOS X? having tried it out and compared it with IE, Mozilla seems a better browser over all.
” Funny I don’t see anyone mention Mozilla 1.0 on MacOS X? having tried it out and compared it with IE, Mozilla seems a better browser over all.”
Agree 100%. Moz is VERY fast and has a RICH feature set (kill popups; tabbed browsing, etc) Who needs slow IE?
But, seriously– Omniweb is disappointing. It is EVEN SLOWER than I and sucks in its CSS support. This guy is just promoting his company’s browser.
The funny thing I noticed is throughout the course of the comments, no one mentioned what an incredibly badass browser OmniWeb is. I’m the typical Opera fanatic, but I gotta say that OmniWeb’s rendering engine is just beautiful, and IE looks like crap by comparison. If you ask me, Apple should license OmniWeb for inclusion in future versions of OS X (although it’s “free” as is)
Haven’t they heard, the number one rule for PR of small companies is to have professional courtesy?
i think that apple could benefit from atleast having a browser stored away, just to keep microsoft honest(altho i seems like a small weapon) atleast apple wouldn’t have to be dependent on MS. I would like to see maybe something like chimera be adopted and have the mac seal of approval. there is almost no market for browsers(save omniweb), apple can’t expect to make profit from it, so i don’t think we are gonna see apple throw all its weight around just for its own browser.
Firstly, I rather have a browser that is stable, and not in alpha stage.
Secondly, I would rather have a piece of software built from ground up in Cocoa.
(Note: If I was Apple).
Hi,
Eugenia: Maybe you should read other news sites, beside yours (which is really great), too…
Look at that:
http://www.thinksecret.com/features/msieupdate2.html
Greetings
Ralf
The only thing Apple cares about from MSFT is Office. The rest is irrelevant. And you have to think differently about Office. In MS-land, Office is a moneymaker after Windows upgrades. But Apple will likely keep OSX upgrades less jarring. So all they care about is file-format interop.
Anyway, there are many credible alternatives to IE. Maybe Apple can even rebrand Mozilla by skillfully “contributing code” to Moz and coopting them a bit.
It was already mentioned, but these statements are coming from OmniGroup, who makes OmniWeb. In this sense, every statement should be taken with a grain of salt. The standards and rendering issues raised are valid; however, OmniWeb has horrible standards support. It may render nicely, and be Cocoa and use Quartz and not QuickDraw, but it is still far behind IE in standards compliance.
Also, although Microsoft’s MBU is relatively small, they put out some awesome software. Many PC users are even unaware of the presence of Office for the Mac, let alone realize that the Mac Office programs are in some ways superior to their Windows counterparts.
Also, along with the mention of killing the browser market on Macs, Mozilla 1.0 was recently released. Also, the Chimera (or whatever it is officially called) devs are making great inroads with their Gecko-based browser. I believe it is using Quartz to render since version 0.2. In fact, in the opinion article over at the Web Standards Project [ http://www.webstandards.org/ ], Chimera is one of the three browsers that are specifically narrowed out for great standards compliance (and being Gecko-based, along with Netscape of Mozilla itself), but don’t forget Galeon (for Linux/GTK+) and K-Meleon (for Windows), which are both Gecko-based.
OmniGroup has some great software, but OmniWeb is a bit behind when it comes to the state of web browsers. OmniGraffle is a great piece of software. Just some things to keep in mind, I guess.
— Rob
IE for the Mac may not be perfect but it’s probably the most compliant browser on the Mac at this time.
For a competitor (Omniweb) to blatantly “opine”
that it will soon be discontinued is simply a cheap shot to discredit Microsoft. Make no mistake, the Mac would not be what it is today without Microsoft.
ciao
yc
all the omnigroup wants is to sell their own product. use mozilla, for heaven’s sake. it’s a great browser and it is free!
yes.
>>Make no mistake, the Mac would not be what it is today without Microsoft.<<
Actually I think Apple and Microsoft have both felt this in their past history. They can deny it, but they both know that they need each other at the end of the day!
Browsers are a critical part of the computing experience so apple definitely needs to support alternatives to explorer regardless of what MS does. That said, the switch campaign is like nothing i’ve seen since those original Mac commercials (you know the ones). Apple took off the gloves and they seem to be finally fighting instead of just humbly accepting their own defeat. It is about time. Perhaps we’ll see a good fight here after all.
Who cares. I use Mozilla anyway.
http://chimera.mozdev.org is the best OS X browser out there. I haven’t used IE in 5 months. Who cares.
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned Opera. It does everything that I need a web browser to do. And I’m able to use it on all the OSs (BeOS, Linux, OS/2, Windows 95/98/NT/2000/XP, Mac OS “classic” and Mac OS X) that I use at home and work.
To the person who asked in opined should have been opened, I think opined is a verb that means to give an opinion, so I think Eugenia was right.
Now as for IE on the mac. Right now I’m pretty disappointed with it’s performance under OS X, and Outlook Express is sort of a disgrace (again, under OS X). IE is my favorite browser for the PC, so I hope to see a version 6 in the near future. Until then I’ve been really pleased with Mozilla 1.0 and Chimera/Navigator (chimera.mozdev.org). It makes me wonder if we will really need IE for the mac in the future if open source, free projects such as this really continue to take off. In an even bigger sense, I wonder if it will be worth it for Microsoft to continue working on IE for any platform? I wonder what they gain from controlling the browser market since nobody pays for a browser anyway. I don’t know, just curious.
Even with IE around, dont you think Apple could make a better browser. IE sucks for the MAC. incompatabilities, SLOW ect. Apple could do it and well.
Apple has plenty on their plate without assuming a project that would take years and years, and likely produce nothing better than what’s currently available (not to mention what would be available at the time of iSurf or whatever’s release).
Apple isn’t that big of a company. They can’t take on every project under the sun, especially when great, free solutions exist. Now, if you want to talk about them stepping in and working on some Mozilla code, that’s a very different story. The basic rendering is finished and there are quite a few assurances that it will continue to be updated. If they wanted to throw on some Apple gloss, that’d be a reasonable solution (and “backup plan”) without too much investment.
> Eugenia: Maybe you should read other news sites, beside yours (which is really great), too…
ThinkSecret is a web site that is based on rumors, regardless if these rumors end up true or not. I have to say that I do not believe a SINGLE WORD from the MacOSRumors web site (I urge you not to believe anything from there either, I got the guy caught lieing severly a month ago), so I don’t know if ThinkSecret is any better or not. ThinkSecret was talking about that Apple PDA last year, and they even got a video showing the PDA, but many months later, we haven’t seen any such product, but most importandly, we haven’t seen not even a follow up on the rumours by anyone else! So, spare the secrets for the soap opera lovers.
> Eugenia: Maybe you should read other news sites, beside yours (which is really great), too…
I read MacMinute daily (the best!), MacSlash and Macnn from time to tome, among the standard 20-25 news web sites I visit every day. But I do not and will not read bullsh*t like MacOSRumors. That guy is lies in every other word. He lost my respect a month ago, when he lied about a project, saying that he has seen it with his own eyes, while I know 1000% that he hasn’t.
from what I see in that site I think that macOSX users have one thing less to complain
http://www2.canisius.edu/~graciem/mozilla.html
“I wonder what they {Microsoft} gain from controlling the browser market since nobody pays for a browser anyway. I don’t know, just curious.”
Netscaped is more than just a web browser, it is a platform that allows developers to write code that works on many operation systems. When netscape own 90% of the brower market way back when, this was a threat to microsoft’s os buisness. M$ created (bought) IE just to kill netscape. Just like they created (ripped off) .NET just to kill Java.
Let’s not forget that IE is also an application. The other benefit of controlling the browser market is that you have your executables on nearly everybody’s computers. That’s a lot of power!
Microsoft can now market all kinds of services to the kinds of people who do pay big money. So if someone wants to flood your browsing experience with nasty popup ads, Microsoft can accomodate them for a price. If someone wants to collect information about how you use your computer, Microsoft can accomodate them for a price. And if Bush Lite decides that spying on every computer using American is OK because of the “war on terrorism”, Microsoft can accomodate him, for the price of a national monopoly.
Sweet dreams, everybody…
>>If someone wants to collect information about how you use your computer, Microsoft can accomodate them for a price. And if Bush Lite decides that spying on every computer using American is OK because of the “war on terrorism”, Microsoft can accomodate him, for the price of a national monopoly.<<
Definitely a scary thought, but it’s almost certain going to happen with all the legislation they’re trying to pass. And with all that has been happening the past year, this stuff will get passed and the sad fact is that it wouldn’t have got passed 2 years ago, so it took a major disaster in order for the US Government to get America’s (The American People) approval on these types of issues!
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat mistakes of the past.
Government sponsored spying and witch hunts have failed to do any good in the US. J. Edgar Hoover and Joseph McCarthy were criminals, not patriots. What they did served their own wishes, and not the national good. In fact they both destroyed the lives of innocent people for no good purpose. Outside the US, the authoritarian governments of the 20th century were responsible for massive oppression, poverty and death of their own people. Study history and see what Hitler, Moussolini, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others did in the name of national “security”.
A great man once said that those who sacrifice liberty for security will find themselves with neither. The 20th century tought us how true those words were! Only a fool would want to repeat that insanity.
The only thing Apple cares about from MSFT is Office. The rest is irrelevant. And you have to think differently about Office. In MS-land, Office is a moneymaker after Windows upgrades. But Apple will likely keep OSX upgrades less jarring. So all they care about is file-format interop.
Accroading to the numbers they give their shareholders, Office is the biggest cashcow in Microsoft.
Anyway, there are many credible alternatives to IE. Maybe Apple can even rebrand Mozilla by skillfully “contributing code” to Moz and coopting them a bit.
They are promoting the use of Aqua, Quartz and other things, why use something that don’t use them?
Also, although Microsoft’s MBU is relatively small, they put out some awesome software. Many PC users are even unaware of the presence of Office for the Mac, let alone realize that the Mac Office programs are in some ways superior to their Windows counterparts.
Though it is hard to port a 100% Win32 app to Mac, Mac BU don’t make apps from strach, but uses Microsoft’s code.
IE for the Mac may not be perfect but it’s probably the most compliant browser on the Mac at this time.
Mozilla is the most standards compliant, if that’s what you mean.
all the omnigroup wants is to sell their own product. use mozilla, for heaven’s sake. it’s a great browser and it is free!
I don’t know, if I’m using OS X, this would be the last browser I would use. Chimera proved that Mozilla could increase performance if they made their products native.
http://chimera.mozdev.org is the best OS X browser out there. I haven’t used IE in 5 months. Who cares.
It is in alpha, and therefore, one of the most unstable browsers for OS X.
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned Opera. It does everything that I need a web browser to do. And I’m able to use it on all the OSs (BeOS, Linux, OS/2, Windows 95/98/NT/2000/XP, Mac OS “classic” and Mac OS X) that I use at home and work.
The latest release of Opera is only available for Linux and Windows, and it seems that this is the only two platforms they are interested. Opera 5 is available for OS 9, but for OS X, it is a Opera 5 Beta.
ThinkSecret is a web site that is based on rumors, regardless if these rumors end up true or not. I have to say that I do not believe a SINGLE WORD from the MacOSRumors web site (I urge you not to believe anything from there either, I got the guy caught lieing severly a month ago), so I don’t know if ThinkSecret is any better or not. ThinkSecret was talking about that Apple PDA last year, and they even got a video showing the PDA, but many months later, we haven’t seen any such product, but most importandly, we haven’t seen not even a follow up on the rumours by anyone else! So, spare the secrets for the soap opera lovers.
Actually, Think Secret is a much better site than you think. The site about the Apple PDA was Spymac, which has a bad track record. All ThinkSecret rumours about Jaguar, for example, was true.
Study history and see what Hitler, Moussolini, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others did in the name of national “security”.
Pol Pot’s crimes was caused because he wanted an communist government free from “oppression” from the interlectuals. Hitler killed Jews because he thought they were evil…