A new resolution introduced in the US Senate offers political backing to the Bush administration by slamming a United Nations effort to exert more influence over the Internet. At the heart of this international political spat is the unique influence that the US federal government enjoys over Internet addresses and the master database of top-level domain names – a legacy of the Internet’s origins years ago. The Bush administration recently raised objections to the proposed addition of .xxx as a red-light district for pornographers, for instance, a veto power that no other government is able to wield.
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this individual case, the way the US is acting here _should_ give you americans some hint as to why you are disliked so much internationally.
Go on, mod me down…. it’s an American site/internet/world, right?
Yes. It is an American internet.
There are times when nostalgia gets in the way of a person’s sight. It IS our baby, but it’s all grown up now.
I don’t have any particular problem with the status quo. I also generally agree with Bush. In this case I think their view on this is short-sighted and rather silly.
Conversely, the rest of the world is acting like having control over the internet is their *right*, which it is not. If we reliquish control (which I am _not_ arguing against), then everyone else need to realize that *we* are relinquishing control over something that was *ours*.
Just remember that – sacrifices are hard to make, even when they are the right thing to do.
But the question is, would it have become what it currently is without the help of the rest of the world?
would it have become what it currently is without the help of the rest of the world
Well considering the web was invented by a Briton (Tim Berners-Lee) and without which the internet would obviously be pretty useless then yes.
The USA has done nothing to deserve total control but has instead abused its power to ensure it has the lion share of all IP addresses as well as maintaining veto power over it.
The internet is interational and needs international control and like international law the current US governement has no respect for it – its time to lay it on the line and take back control.
Freedom means not being dictated to by unelected leaders and as no one outside the US has elected Bush he and his administration has no right to impose anything on any other country.
So it bolis down to dictatorship or freedom – which would you choose?
If you and your country spent all its time and money developing the internet, would you want to relenquish control?
The fact is, the internet was created in America, by Americans, and paid for with American tax dollars.
If you and your country spent all its time and money developing the internet, would you want to relenquish control?
The fact is, the internet was created in America, by Americans, and paid for with American tax dollars.
What we’re talking about here is regulation based on international co-operation, not ownership and control. Take telephones. A wide variety of corporations actually own the infrastructure. It’s theirs to buy and sell. And if one country decides to block calls or tap into all foreign calls, that is not a question of regulation but of control and is a question for governments to sort out. What regulation might do is ensure the smooth running and future development of the internet in a way that’s fair and open for all users in all countries. This is not much more glamorous than ensuring that if I dial a telephone number that’s in a foreign country, the connection gets made through the international switching network.
Besides, from a foreign perspective, US “ownership” of the net has not been an unqualified success. It sparked off the biggest stock bubble in 200 years which most likely cost us all trillions when it burst. It sparked massive fraud of which people like Bernie Ebbers are only the tip. And it deluged the world with spam and far worse nasties in a way that would not have happened in many other countries. There are plenty of parts of the world where a career as a counterfeit medicines or porno spammer would prove short and very painful. Alas, the US isn’t one of them.
Besides, from a foreign perspective, US “ownership” of the net has not been an unqualified success.
How many unqualified successes at a global level have there ever been? The Marshal Plan, maybe? *If so*, that would make one.
It sparked off the biggest stock bubble in 200 years which most likely cost us all trillions when it burst. It sparked massive fraud of which people like Bernie Ebbers are only the tip.
He ha! He ha! He ha ha ha! U.S. “ownership” caused all that, eh? No, no, no. Greed was the cause and greed is universal. What? There’s no greed at the UN? There’s no greed where you’re from? Come now, we all have eyes to see.
And it deluged the world with spam and far worse nasties in a way that would not have happened in many other countries. There are plenty of parts of the world where a career as a counterfeit medicines or porno spammer would prove short and very painful.
Like in places where a career as a free citizen is short and very painful if you don’t happen to agree with the current regime?
The idea that somehow international regulation of the Internet would result in some utopian alternate Internet is… well… Utopian. It wouldn’t happen. For all this talk of democracy and how U.S. control of the Internet is non-democratic, I can only say that I have yet to be asked to elect anyone to any post at the United Nations. There is no democratic accountability of the United Nations back to me. If I’m ever to be a “world citizen,” I demand a world government accountable to me.
I’m not sure I trust anyone to be in control of the Internet. As it stands right now, the U.S. government’s control of the Internet is not so very strong, and I wouldn’t want it to be much stronger. When the idea of an “Information Superhighway” was being bandied about in the 90’s, they weren’t talking about the Internet… No, really. They may have said Internet, but they meant “conduit for media companies and other power centers to push content down to consumers.” Sort of a super cable system (remember the “500 channels?”). Us little people might have been allowed a few meaningless votes here and there, but we were meant mostly to watch and listen… and cough up bucks to the sponsors. Oh, and they might let us send email to each other. Oh, how generous. Lucky for us, the burgeoning Internet of the day fit nicely into the niche of “Information Superhighway,” and had a momentum of its own that nobody controlled outright.
These days, content is indeed being pushed to us over the modern Internet, including a lot of outright crap. But it’s a far more democratic medium, where just about anyone can participate, then was originally intended. Unfortunately, there’s a hell of a lot of undesirable participation going on, but all proposals to limit the undesirable have so far encroached much too far into personal liberties to be allowed.
ma_d, in an earlier post to this thread, said it well:
“The internet is not international, it’s non-national. The idea that it is some sort of bond between countries is incredibly stupid. It’s some sort of bond between people, Governments need to keep their hands out of it. Governments have not, have not, have not, helped create the web. Individuals have, and non-profit organizations have helped it to not cave in on itself where absolutely needed.”
From the sound of the proposal as I’ve heard it so far, it’s just all about someone else having control. But control of what? I’m not sure we can trust anyone’s “control” of the Internet because I’m not sure we can trust anyone’s or any nation’s motivations for “controlling” the Internet. “Control” sounds too much like censorship and as for this talk of taxation… forget it. It’s already too often that someone wants me to pay a “tax” which is merely an expropriation benefitting me in no way.
No it wasn’t.
The Internet was developed on international level with economical aid from many countries.
The Internet is the collaboration of several minor nets. And not something USA invented.
USA invented ARPANET. ARPANET got connected with other nets in this world, and from that connection stems the Internet.
The Internet belongs to all of us, incl. USA.
Your so called “international law” only exists in the form of treaties which various nations have entered into with each other. Beyond them, there is no international body with any authority to arbitrarily impose its will on anybody. Also, treaties can and always have been able to be annulled.
Nice rhetoric, but few facts.
First of all, the internet was a very useful network before http/html, and would still be useful without it. People could still do remote logins, they could still transfer files, they could still create VPNs and ssh tunnels, and they could still use hypertext information, although the format would likely be gopher or some derivative rather than html/http.
Second, many of the IP addresses are assigned to entities in the US simply because the internet as we currently know it was developed in the US, and most of the early adopters and participants were located in the US. That’s a function of geography, not politics.
Third, I’m not sure that you can point to many examples where the US has abused its position. I would be a lot more sympathetic if there appeared to be some level of impropriety on the part of the US, but as far as I’m aware there aren’t very many (if any) solid examples of such behavior.
The internet is not international, it’s non-national. The idea that it is some sort of bond between countries is incredibly stupid. It’s some sort of bond between people, Governments need to keep their hands out of it.
Governments have not, have not, have not, helped create the web. Individuals have, and non-profit organizations have helped it to not cave in on itself where absolutely needed.
I don’t know what you’re talking about with this “total control.” The US has almost no control. The reason we have the “lions share” of the IP’s is because we run the “lions share” of the web. Not to be rude to those contributing outside the US, their contributions are every bit as valuable: But they didn’t hit it as hard and early as people in the US did. Eventually, I imagine you’ll see a much more equal distribution of IP’s. Anyway, having most of the IP’s only matters as long as we’re stuck on IPv4… Which, supposedly, we’ll need to switch from in 2-10 years according to a recent article on slashdot.
I’ve yet to elect anyone in the UN. My Government seems to have chosen some representatives for me, but I certainly didn’t vote for or against them; and trust me, I voted.
The point is, and you’re right, it’s freedom or tyrrany. And I choose freedom, leave it as free as it is today and don’t start legislating on it. Don’t put control of parts of it under anymore Governments than it absolutely has to be! And wait to rest control of it until something bad actually happens, not the veto of “.xxx”!
But the question is, would it have become what it currently is without the help of the rest of the world?
No,
Sir Tim Burners Lee invented HTML and made it open to everybody. Thus the WWW was born. If america invented HTML, it would have been patented and all designers would have to pay money to create documents, and the Internet would still be in the dark ages (That was a joke by the way for you uptight americans)
right becasue that is excatly what happened to gopher and FTP (go read a book)
Quite. The Internet is the sum of many technologies and inventions. Britain, for example, is responsible for many inventions which were key to the development of the computer and later the Internet as were many other countries.
Obviously, companies such as MS have stiffled software development in other countries in recent years. I don’t think that the US should be rewarded for this.
Quite. The Internet is the sum of many technologies and inventions. Britain, for example, is responsible for many inventions which were key to the development of the computer and later the Internet as were many other countries.
Obviously, companies such as MS have stiffled software development in other countries in recent years. I don’t think that the US should be rewarded for this.
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Pretty lame. With Linux/GNU being so popular, anybody with even a weak pc is able to develop software. Also, with web technologies, it’s just so damn easy. It doesn’t mean everyone will switch off of MS, but software can be made by anybody these days.
By the way, anything wrong with MS hiring people all over the world to write code? Do you think that someone in India getting a paycheck from MS prefers to eat dirt writing code for their own enjoyment?
I see more software being written these days by more people than ever before. Credit the internet and GNU/Linux.
Quote: “By the way, anything wrong with MS hiring people all over the world to write code? Do you think that someone in India getting a paycheck from MS prefers to eat dirt writing code for their own enjoyment?”
Quite possibly Microsoft hires them from overseas developing countries because it can then pay them very low wages, much lower than what they’d have to pay to US employees? The US government has allowed it’s businesses to abuse slave labour and sweatshops overseas, and that’s morally a disgrace.
Dave
Quote: “By the way, anything wrong with MS hiring people all over the world to write code? Do you think that someone in India getting a paycheck from MS prefers to eat dirt writing code for their own enjoyment?”
Quite possibly Microsoft hires them from overseas developing countries because it can then pay them very low wages, much lower than what they’d have to pay to US employees? The US government has allowed it’s businesses to abuse slave labour and sweatshops overseas, and that’s morally a disgrace.
Dave
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Welcome to the global economy. I don’t like it either. I’d rather have a job than not, though. Maybe, eventually, they will get paid fairly. It has to start someplace, my friend.
Nobody *really* cares what you people did/think/want. We just humour you with some regularity because we see signs of serious mental derangement.
So you shouldn’t use a computer at all, cause the first computer was build Zuse who was a german.
“Conversely, the rest of the world is acting like having control over the internet is their *right*, which it is not.”
And nethier is it your right.
“…then everyone else need to realize that *we* are relinquishing control over something that was *ours*.”
Everything has started somewhere. Railroads started in Britain but you wouldnt expect the brits to exert control over american railroads, would you?
I’m not saying the UN is the right place for Internet governance but neither should it be controlled by the U.S (or any other country).
trust me, the 61% that hate the president understand completely. I hope that the republicans keep melting down so that the democrats can get the senate back at least. 3 1/2 years of one party control in washington has shown the moderates, who are not ideologically bound to one side or another, how bad that really is.
Sure, let’s get it back to an all-democratic senate again
That’s what we need.
That was sarcasm, by the way.
right because if i let you stay in my place fro free, you also own it. Make your own damn internet.
Out of curiosity, why does the UN feel the need to wrench control from the US? What are we doing wrong that the UN would do better?
I have not heard one good reason other than because people think that the UN would do a “better” job.
“Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this individual case,…”
Damned if we do; damned if we don’t…
Go on, mod me down…
This slashdot type of crybaby-ing is disturbing. You know perfectly well that osnews is not an US site at all, and then you play the victim. This works excellently on slashdot, but I was hoping osnews readers wouldn’t fall for the cheap trick.
That might be the case, but he is absolutely correct in his comment.
Americans are much disliked throughout most of the world, they just don’t like to hear it. It’s called self denial. America has one serious problem – it loves to shove it’s ideas, thoughts and anything else down every other countries throat. The US government likes to dictate control over other countries (illegal coup in Iran in 65, illegal invasion of Vietnam, illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal invasion of Afghanistan, and the list goes on). In fact – the US has invaded more countries in the last 100 years than any OTHER country. In most instances for either political or economical/commercial gain. The US is fabulous at assuming control over world resources, for it’s own greedy end. The US is the largest polluter in the world, yet it won’t sign and abide by the Kyoto agreement (because it knows that in order to change it’s f–ked up manufacturing process would make their economy go bust). Same with still using imperial measurements, even though the ISO standard is metric, and has been for many years now. The US simply wants to do its own thing, and not conform to a “world standard”.
I say go the UN – break the internet apart, and block access to any US “internet” style DNS addresses from the “world internet”. Furthermore, ban US companies from registering DNS names in the non-US “internet”. See how far US businesses get when you cut their access to anywhere else in the world except mainland US and her allies. This will directly affect the US economy. It’s about time that the world, as a whole, stood up to the US bullies, and used collective economics to force the US government to behave itself.
Dave
First, it’s not that we don’t like to hear it. It’s that most of us simply don’t give a shit what the rest of the world thinks. That’s called independence.
I can’t even believe you listed that we “invaded” Vietnam. Have you ever actually picked up a history book? Let me guess – we illegally invaded Germany too. Silly me, Vietnam was for personal gain. Do you even know what country Vietnam was a colony of (Hint: It was European)? But hey, I guess we really milked those rice growers for all they’re worth! I’m glad you place a nations sovereignty over its duty to its people. Who cares if they gas their own people? It’s they’re a sovereign nation! To hell with morality!
As an engineer in training, I can appreciate the confusion most Europeans have as to why our nation is non-metric. Naturally, you (incorrectly) assume that it’s because we’re all stupid, fat, lazy, etc, etc, instead of actually thinking things through. Do you realize how much it would cost to move to the metric system? It’s easily in the billions (that’s 10^9) of US dollars. It’s not because we want to do our own thing and “not conform”.
Yeah. Go UN. I guess it’s too bad the US has veto powers there. =( Nice to see you have no clue on how economics work, either. It would directly affect ALL economies, as we are a key member of the global marketplace. Why is it Europeans care so little what happens in other nations as far as humans rights violations go, but they flip and call the US a police state and wave the Patriot act in the air? Maybe we should send you Kerry. He’d fit right in.
First of all Morgoth is not European, he is Australian (and he is not the first Australian I know who dislikes the US)
“Why is it Europeans care so little what happens in other nations as far as humans rights violations go, but they flip and call the US a police state and wave the Patriot act in the air? Maybe we should send you Kerry.”
Please stop once and forever this pathetic excuse. You only intervene when there is some national interest of yours at stake.
Otherwise why didn’t you intervene in Africa when millions of people were being slaughtered?
Otherwise why didn’t you intervene in Africa when millions of people were being slaughtered?
Actually, USA was the only country pushing for a strong stance against the Sudanese government for what their army (with the help of local militais) was doing in Darfur. But the european and particularly arab members were opposed, so the resolution didn’t pass. I remember it was stil Colin Powell the US secretary of state, at the time, and he really tried hard, but to no avail.
I think in this case you are cursing at the wrong door. Or you just count on people to be ignorant enough to mod you up.. It worked.
And its exactly why the US hates the UN
i’m not american but i feel tat y should the american let the others control the technology they have develope?
The internet was NOT invented by USA.
It’s a myth. USA invented the ARPANET. The ARPANET was connected to other internation nets, and that’s how the Internet came to existence.
It’s not created by USA and therefore belongs to all of us.
right, and that is why most IP addresses are in the US (one of the complaints) becasue it was made by the whole world and the US hogged it all. I can only imagine where you people get this stuff from.
USA got most IPs because they took that part for themself.
This couldn’t be different since some parts of the technology was created by USA.
“USA got most IPs because they took that part for themself.”
no its becasue they made the net and were using it before everyone else so it really didnt matter. MIT has the entire 18.x.x.x range. Every little gadget on campus gets a real permanent IP. Do you wonder why MIT can do that but not <random EU school>? It’s because they made the damn thing.
No they didn’t. They created ARPANET.
And IPs used on the Internet is based on the same system as ARPANET. The Internet is ARPANET connected with many other nets. And several Communication Layers on top of it.
That’s why.
“The internet was NOT invented by USA.”
Okay, then who invented it? Name the country?
“It’s a myth. USA invented the ARPANET. The ARPANET was connected to other internation nets, and that’s how the Internet came to existence.”
ARPANET was the foundation for what became the internet and the closest thing to the roots of the internet. As you admit, APRANET was American.
“It’s not created by USA and therefore belongs to all of us.”
Go back and forth all you wish, the foundation of what you, myself and others enjoy today as the internet, came from an American project…spin it all you want.
The internet, as a whole, doesn’t belong to anyone.
All this issue is concerning the main TLD’s and DNS issues, which is only a part (important part for sure) of the modern internet. Bringing HTTP, WWW, and all the other protocols into it, is really just muddying the waters and avoiding the actual discussion of the issue at debate….DNS TLD control.
“connected to other internation nets”
And where were most of these “nets” located? Right.
Sorry you can’t bring yourself to admit the origin of the internet you use today.
Spin and flame all you want. The facts are the facts and neither of us (or anyone else) can change them.
Frankly I wish some other country had come up with the origins of the internet. I told myself many years ago that as the internet spread, sooner or later the anti-americanism would kick in and make a mess. Of course, for some, as long as their country didn’t create it’s foundation, they will never be happy with who is in control.
To say the internet does now owe it’s roots to the American’s is to be a tad lacking of historical facts. All said and done, who really cares! We helped give the world something and as usual, we get shit on for wanting just a bit of control over the TLD’s…wow.
JT
There is no roots of the existing internet.
“connected to other internation nets” should have been international nets. All but one net is placed outside USA. Inside USA the network exist of several national networks.
The internet was NOT invented by USA.
It’s a myth. USA invented the ARPANET. The ARPANET was connected to other internation nets, and that’s how the Internet came to existence.
It’s not created by USA and therefore belongs to all of us.
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I’m pretty sure it does. Why would you think otherwise? Just cause the US can veto something does not mean you guys need to get your knickers in a bunch. Is this the most important thing to bicker over these days? How trivial.
I’m not sure why this is a surprise — I can’t think of any country on the planet that wouldn’t react defensively in the face of such an unprecedented (and as far as I can tell largely baseless) demand.
The Internet was created bu connecting several net, incl. ARPANET.
USA did not invent the Internet, therefore it shouldn’t control it.
It’s should be controlled by all democratic countries.
“It’s should be controlled by all democratic countries.”
Do you mean china, lybia or Iran?
NOOOOOOOOO
They are not democratic!
Democratic countries == USA, Great Britain, France, Germany, Australia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Hungary, Israel, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, South Africa and so on (I won’t list all democratic countries – that would be quite a long list).
But Iran, Lybia, Communist China do not qualify as democratic.
handing control to the UN gives control to communist china since it is on the security council (with a veto). kiss your free internet goodbye if that happens.
I didn’t say anything about UN!
I specifically said DEMOCRATIC NATIONS!
NOT UN!
UN is pretty much dead in regard to solve anything.
The reasoning, and it’s quite good, is such: We’re the only country in the world with no topical limitation on free speech that is a world power.
UK, Germany, they enjoy the illegalization of Naziism.
And I think we all know why China doesn’t need it’s tyrranical hands all over the web.
In the end, the US has almost no real power over the Web, and that’s good. This is simply other countries attempting to gain a handlehold on something which no government has a handle hold on.
And to get that hold, they’re using baffoons who can’t see past their anti-American views.
The USA enjoys the illegalization of child pr0nography. The argument against child pr0n is that it is an incitement for child molestation. The argument against Nazism is that it is an incitement for murder. I’d say that Nazism is worse myself, and that if just one of the two ought to be outlawed, it’s Nazism. Having both illegal, of course, is preferable.
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this individual case, the way the US is acting here _should_ give you americans some hint as to why you are disliked so much internationally.
Acting to protect our property? I have never seen a larger collection of Euro-whiners in my life. Now you know why Americans can’t stand Europeans you people have totally lost touch with reality. Get over it!
the way the US is acting here _should_ give you americans some hint as to why you are disliked so much internationally.
Instead of us Americans spending so much time worrying about why you dislike us, maybe the rest of the world should be asking why we dislike you.
Instead of us Americans spending so much time worrying about why you dislike us, maybe the rest of the world should be asking why we dislike you.
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thats pretty obvious by whats on display in here – a lot of you are inbred morons whos thought processes are amazing!
considering the US is a nation of immigrants and we get fresh people everyday. you are the inbred morons
considering the US is a nation of immigrants and we get fresh people everyday. you are the inbred morons
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Heh, good point. The US is really the country of the WORLD as everyone seems to be coming here, plane, boat, or simpy by running across the border.
Come one, come all, and bicker like there is no tomorrow!
America! Give us the Light and explain the poor Rest of the word How Life, Death, Freedom, and Justice should be. And Forgive Us to Have Offended The Great Master of The Word. Amen.
personally I’d like to see my country become more isolationist and let all of you rot in your own little cesspools. I’m tired of my tax dollars funding the world bank, the UN, and every time some country has a problem that we “HAVE TO” send money because of the little panty wipe democrats needing some form of fulfillment for their enlightenment. If we called in all of our debts since WWII we wouldn’t have the financial load we have right now and most of Europe would still be third world. Believe it or not there is going to be a future and you better believe it is going to be an American future.
Um, some knowledge of the actual situation would be helpful here, rather than just painting it as “U.S. vs. the World.”
ICANN, which governs the domain name system, is an independent nonprofit corporation. Just like other governing bodies and other important institutions that make the Internet go (ISC, W3C etc.). It was originally started by the U.S. government but went independent in 1998 — its last ties with the Commerce Department will be cut next year.
From ICANN’s site: “ICANN is governed by an internationally diverse Board of Directors overseeing the policy development process. ICANN’s President directs an international staff, working from three continents, who ensure that ICANN meets its operational commitment to the Internet community.” http://www.icann.org/general/
And a U.S. Senate resolution is just a non-binding expression of what the Senate as a body “believes” — it isn’t legislation and doesn’t have any power to do anything. And while the U.S. government created the Internet as an open system, and U.S. academics created all the protocols and services that make it work, it isn’t in President Bush’s power to shut it down or even come close — so the doomsday scare tactics by UN or EU partisans are just FUD. Even if all Americans and all the U.S.-based companies that are most of the Tier 1 peers collaborated in such a ridiculous scheme, the Internet would keep on trucking — that’s what its architecture was designed to do.
I am an American who thinks Bush is ruining our country, and particularly our reputation abroad, but I also happen to think that ICANN is by far the best-equipped body to govern the domain name system.
Check out the people on ICANN’s board: http://www.icann.org/general/board.html
I would rather have an independent organization led by people like Vint Cerf in charge of the domain name system than some kind of neutered wing of the UN or EU any day. I mean, talk about governance problems!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORSN
>Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this >individual case, the way the US is acting here >_should_ give you americans some hint as to why you >are disliked so much internationally.
And this demonstrates why the rest of the world is just screwed up. Sit back and watch the US build a great vehicle of freedom and then demand to control it.
Build your own internet. Noone’s stopping you and hey, the specs are even free.
“Build your own internet. Noone’s stopping you and hey, the specs are even free.”
Might be an idea that, then we can block the US from using it and cut spam by 90%.
We can implement the .xxx domain system and then block it to get rid of the porn too.
I agree.. because there aint no reason so spam those people without money.. like everywhere else biatches
You can build your own network and not the internet. Remember that Internet is a network of networks. Building your own and not integrating it with the internet means it’s basically useless.
You cannot have “China’s internet” or “EU’s internet”. By definition there can be only one Internet.
You can build your own network and not the internet. Remember that Internet is a network of networks. Building your own and not integrating it with the internet means it’s basically useless.
You cannot have “China’s internet” or “EU’s internet”. By definition there can be only one Internet.
So, after other world having one and US having one? Your brain logic tells you that there will be Internet (US) and Othernet (other). And if we take the word Internet and dissect it, we get “International Net”. Again your logic tells you US should be considered International and others… well,… some others that apparently exist on the same planet but you somehow forgot to squash those bugs.
You are just in time for your regular lobotomy.
“And if we take the word Internet and dissect it, we get “International Net”.”
hahahahah! that was the best post today from a Euro-Weenie! “International Net” . Next thing you know you will say that IPC stands for International process commuinication.
By definition there can be only one Internet.
That’s what they said about the Highlander. But it didn’t stop 2 (or was it 3?) sequels and 2 TV series from being made.
Hmmm.. you do not seem to understand about what the internet is.
I think its a necessary strategic decision to remove DNS and IP control from US and probably rather easy. It will give some problems at first but everything solvable when yankee business suddenly has no access to european market etc.
when yankee business suddenly has no access to european market etc.
ummm…what about when european business doesn’t have access to american market?
I reckon people should just remember the damn IP address then we wouldn’t have this problem
ummm…what about when european business doesn’t have access to american market?
??? Well, apart from not being able to buy Levi’s (and will have a reason get rid of Apple, if my costomers couldn’t buy them, I wouldn’t need to either. This is positive not negative) there’s no change.
Oh, you mean the US owes hundreds of billions of dollars to countries worldwide for all the internet infrastructure they laid down?
Sorry. Right-o. We’re in the wrong, we’ll be happy to admit… as soon as the check comes in the mail.
Idiot.
Well the french invented “la carte à puces” (smartcard?) and an american company, helped b the US government and a secret agency (NSA if I remember well) stole it !
Why not just americans just invented one of your own, the specs were of course not free
Various countries are squabbling for exerting control of the internet like cry-babies. This is not helping anyone. The politicians are going to spoil the party for techies as well as the general public.
For example, The Bush administration want strict regulation of adult content. The chinese want to edit out sites which support/help freesom of speech and democracy.
At best this will fragment the internet which is the surest way to kill it. This will laed to the permission culture which Lessig often talks about.
nothing can destroy the interet
nothing can destroy the interet
———–
How about a new MS bourne network worm? SQL-Slammer, anybody?
How about all the non-US developed technologies, protocols, etc. get removed from the Internet, then we can see how everyone in the US really feels about the “it’s mine, we made it” claim.
I could live with DECnet.
We used a DDP network at Unisys between hosts all over the world, IBM has had its own networking protocols for years, and airlines still use IATA Host to Host as well as a zillion other non-IP-based protocols in addition to TCP/IP, so “the internet” isn’t the only solution, or even the best one for some types of applications.
It just happens to be the one open to the public…
aah.. decnet.. miss that..
“How about all the non-US developed technologies, protocols, etc. get removed from the Internet, then we can see how everyone in the US really feels about the “it’s mine, we made it” claim.””
We built the internet, I imagine we could come up with replacements for those protocols and technologies.
The better question is how far would of those “non-US” developed technologies and protocols have gone without the internet?
“”it’s mine, we made it” claim.””
Not a claim, it’s a fact. Now get over yourself.
JT
USA did not build or invent the Internet.
USA created the ARPANET.
The Internet is a network of several international networks. I don’t see why you can claim these non-US parts of the network to be US-parts.
There would be no Internet without the networks from the rest of the world. There would just be a minor ARPANET.
great idea. they lose the www. infact they lose all their protocols as well, packet switching was invented by a brit after all.
Here we’re gonna have US citizens saying “we built it, you’re free to make one” and the rest of the world saying : “well, we can, but don’t you think it would be stupid?”.
Always a matter a supranationality, which is much praised in all part of the world (remeber that no government is fully trustworthy), except in US where people tend to think “Wow, it’s cool, we have more than the rest of the world, gov rocks!!!”.
And then, a US guy is going to point one non-democratic country and says “Why should we trust them?”. Endless debate and cultural differences…
Well, either the internet is a special case or it is not. And if it is just a utility like phones, running water or electricity then there is nothing controversial about handing some aspects of it to an international body like those which regulate the postal and telephone unions. They work and are so unremarkable no one pays any attention to them. You post a letter in France and it gets delivered in Malaysia. End of story.
This sounds like it’s going the typical way of the Bush presidency. Hostility and intransigence with a lashing of raw Christianity thrown in, anger and depression even among America’s friends, followed eventually by a rather sour US withdrawal and a compromise. At the end, the US gets less than it would have got had it been a little more thoughtful and subtle in the first place.
Sit back and watch the US build a great vehicle of freedom and then demand to control it.
You do know that the most interesting part of the internet, the World Wide Web (and things such as http and html and the first few webpages) were created singlehandedly by Tim Berners-Lee, at CERN, in Zwitserland?
And apparently, the internet isn’t about freedom, freedom of speech etc. at all. If it really were, than why was the .xxx domain blocked due to political reasons?
Using Unix, C, and NextStep, all originallly USA technologies.
I wouldn’t have mentioned it, except, you opened the door Thom…
Software which was developed using principles like Boolean alegreba, and for-loop constructs, developed by Brits (George Boole, Alan Turing) and the Dutch (Djikstra).
Not to mention that the whole packet-switching thing (basis of TCP folks) was invented by a Brit as well.
I wouldn’t have mentioned it, except, you opened the door…
The fact is all interesting technology has been developed by people all around the world either working together, or working separately on different aspects of the same problem. The Internet is no different.
The concern is that the UN has often been fair to a fault, allowing, for example, despots and dictators to sit on the largely discredited Human Rights Commission. Likewise the International Telecoms Union (ITU), the closest UN body, has built up a reputation of leaning too much to the needs of telecoms providers (most of them national monopolies until very recently) at the expense of the consumer.
Ironically, ICANN was originally set up as an international representative body, but was set up as a commercial firm as people feared that too much red-tape would strangle the web. For example, the ITU once rejected the idea of the Internet in favour of a different, more easily controlled system. However there are some who say now that ICANN, and the whole system, has become too commercialised, as evidenced by the tug of war between it and Verisign.
On the other hand, some of the loudest calls for international control have come from places like China, the Middle East and Africa, places with poor records in transparency, justice and free-speech.
Ultimately a balance needs to be struck, and people need to sit down and talk to one another. This requires diplomacy, an art which is increasingly neglected in international politics (and one in which the current US administration is particularly weak). A good diplomat could make something like this drag on for years in an impotent committee, a fudge which would be in everyone’s interests. Giving the metaphorical finger like this will only add fuel to the fire.
Written in English which was perfected by the USA.
I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but your lame Euro ass opened the door.
Hey troll
Using electricity, discovered by the USA.
“Using electricity, discovered by the USA.”
Only because he goto the patent office quicker 🙂
Besides you people in the US should come into the moden world on put your power lines under ground.
Many areas of the US have had power lines underground for many years, including the suburb of the Twin Cities where I lived previously and the suburb of Atlanta where I live now.
Yet more proof that all generalizations are false. 🙂
Electricity was discovered in ancient Egypt. And later rediscovered in Europe (in Italy).
Mathematics on which all other technologies are based was discovered by Arabs
actually, it was by south /south east asians and it travelled west to arabia where europeans saw them use it. that is why things like arabic numerals is a mysnomer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
Mathematics on which all other technologies are based was discovered by Arabs
———————-
They didn’t have the number 0, which is exactly how many VIRGINS ARE WAITING IN HEAVEN FOR THEIR SUICIDE BOMBERS.
What have “arabs” done since that has greatly affected the world in a positive way? Not much, IMHO.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity
According to Thales of Miletus, writing circa 600 BCE, a form of electricity was known to the Ancient Greeks, who found that rubbing fur on various substances, such as amber, would cause a particular attraction between the two. The Greeks noted that the amber buttons could attract light objects such as hair, and that if they rubbed the amber for long enough, they could even get a spark to jump. This is the origin of the word “electricity”, from the Greek ēlektron = “amber”, which came from an old root ēlek- = “shine”.
An object found in Iraq in 1938, dated to about 250 BCE and called the Baghdad Battery, resembles a galvanic cell and is believed by some to have been used for electroplating. The conjecture that this or other ancient artifacts had an electrical function remains unproven, and such proposed ancient knowledge bears no known continuous relationship to the development of modern electrical technology.
So the Greeks discovered AC electricity, and the Iraqis (heh) discovered DC.
This is the list of scientists involved in the development of knowledge of electricity listed on that page:
Thales of Miletus, William Gilbert, Otto von Guericke, Robert Boyle, Stephen Gray, C. F. Du Fay, Pieter van Musschenbroek, William Watson, Benjamin Franklin, Ebenezer Kinnersley, Michael Faraday, Luigi Galvani, Alessandro Volta, André-Marie Ampère, Georg Simon Ohm and Nikola Tesla.
This just goes to show what I said in my initial comment, every major innovation is the result of significant efforts by disparate individuals scattered across the globe. If you think about it, that’s a wonderful thing.
Any attempt by any country or citizen thereof to claim the sole ownership of any innovation betrays not only collosal arrogance, but also profound ignorance of the history and method of scientific research.
And we know how trustworthy the wikipedia is. About as trustworthy as a blue helmet soldier in the Congo. (aka a pedo rape machine)
Any attempt by any country or citizen thereof to claim the sole ownership of any innovation betrays not only collosal arrogance, but also profound ignorance of the history and method of scientific research.
———————
Settle down, there sizzle-chest.
You are blowing this all out of proportion. Using words/phrases like “collosal arrogance”, “profound ignorance” makes it seem like your retort has life and death implications. Geez…
The reason you won’t see an .xxx domain is that XXX has bad connotations. You can have your trash/porn on any of the domains (well, maybe not on the .gov domains). There is no US led fight against porn on the internet, except where that porn explicitly violates law — i.e. child porn. Your argument that this is a violation of freedom of speech is really inane. Can’t there be a more creative argument brought up?
the .xxx domain blocking was stupid I agree with you because it would have been an excellent way for people to filter it out or block access. Of course how would one enforce it? – impossible really, the re-direct and preview sites to them would still exist and for every one taken down when caught 100,000 would pop back up there’s more money in it than drug traficing (sp?) ever had in commissions from these “temptors”.
@ Thom
“And apparently, the internet isn’t about freedom, freedom of speech etc. at all. If it really were, than why was the .xxx domain blocked due to political reasons?”
Because smut doesn’t belong anywhere and access to it isn’t a right. It needs to be wiped out ASAP.
Because smut doesn’t belong anywhere and access to it isn’t a right. It needs to be wiped out ASAP.
That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. The rest of the world just doesn’t agree with you.
You realize you’re preaching to people who’d happily stone you?
There have been at least 100 posts which mention the need for freedom, both sides are arguing over which way gets the most freedom: And here you are, making a full afront to the notion of free speech by arguing that “smut” must be abolished…
I suggest you re-aim your crusade to abolish “smut” by convincing people that it, does in fact, have no value and they don’t want to look at it anyway. Instead of telling them they won’t look at it, period.
You do know that the most interesting part of the internet, the World Wide Web (and things such as http and html and the first few webpages) were created singlehandedly by Tim Berners-Lee, at CERN, in Zwitserland?
I’m well aware of that. The internet is more than the WWW although it is the most visible. The first successful web browser which introduced people to the WWW was made in the USA. Most of the computer innovations in the last half century also comes from the USA. Think about apple, intel, microsoft etc..
And apparently, the internet isn’t about freedom, freedom of speech etc. at all. If it really were, than why was the .xxx domain blocked due to political reasons?
Free speech is different from freedom to control. A suggestion for a .sexwithgoats TLD wouldn’t be accepted either but that doesn’t somehow mean I don’t have freedom of speech and can’t rant about that topic on my blog if I felt the need to.
“Freedom of speech” as defined in the first ammendment by the framers of the US constitution refered to _political_ speech. It was never meant to mean “you can say whatever the hell you want regardless of consquences.” It’s amazing how few Americans are even aware of this fact, though I must admin rulings by the courts have made this an unfortunately confusing topic for uninfomred bystanders.
“And apparently, the internet isn’t about freedom, freedom of speech etc. at all. If it really were, than why was the .xxx domain blocked due to political reasons?”
Of course everyone jumps to the conclusion that .xxx was blocked solely, or even mostly on a morality basis (although the media is doing it’s best to hype of this argument). One of the reasons which has not really seemed to garner any attention is that the US government does not want to begin segmenting and enforcing laws on the basis of type of business when it comes to the internet.
Because .xxx was about restricting pornography on the internet. Where have you been Thom?
This article, on wikipedia, explains quite well just why .xxx was stupid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.XXX
The biggest part of the purpose was to convince pornographers to move their content to it; which we all know they aren’t going to do… They do advertise for a reason: They want new customers.
Well, this shows how US like to dominate de world.
I agree that US invented the internet and want to control it. But the chineses invented the powder, so they must control it too?
Think again, if US wanna control the net so much, this is gonna end like rest of the world’s net and US net. Who is gonna lose in this scenario?
This control over internet that US like to do is the same behavior that the american people like to speak in “freedom of speach”?
Do what I say, but don’t do what I do…
cya
when you use gun poweder do you use chinese facilities? no. when you use the internet do you use american infrastructure and computers? yes.
Only when accessing American sites. Just like you use European networks and computers when accessing European sites.
So, what’s your point realy?
I think that’s already happening. Look at who’s using IPv6, and how’s still using IPv4.
If you are suggesting that the US is reluctant to switch, then you are right. But if you are suggesting that others are already switching, you may be entirely wrong. The US doesn’t just switch over due to cost. The developing places can afford to, since they’re not “upgrading” into IPv6. The US would have to make a major upgrade; others don’t; others are starting from scratch at scale. So the US will slowly migrate over; in fact, the US is already doing this. By the way, IPv6 was made compatible so that we _could_ migrate over affordably.
>You cannot have “China’s internet” or “EU’s internet”. By definition there can be only one Internet.
If things continue this way, there will be a split between the US and the rest of the world.
So yes, there will be “internet” and the “US internet”.
It should have happened already a few years ago anyway.
And apparently, the internet isn’t about freedom, freedom of speech etc. at all. If it really were, than why was the .xxx domain blocked due to political reasons?
Because they’re in the second phrase of “demand to control it”…isn’t this what the whole article’s about?
America likes to talk about inventions and morals as if nobody else exists. Without European knowledge and know how their consitution and the internet wouldn’t exist, and they would’ve lost the space race.
All this talk of people hating freedom and crying like children is just a juvinile response to the fact that an awful lot of people out their don’t like Americas swaggering attitude and brutal diplomacy.
I like the idea of international control and permissions. Why? I’m fed up to the back-teeth with the cultural, economic, and militaristic spam that America forces down every open orifice. Keep it to yourself.
…and the U.S. out of the U.N. The U.N. exists mostly to try to allow the rest of the world an opportunity to collude towards the goal of infringing upon U.S. sovereignty and co-opting American property for global use.
U.S. tax payers footed the bill for the creation of the Internet. We were generous and shared our creation with the world. This is a matter of jurisdiction; at stake are issues which are not under the auspices of any global body but rather the sovereign property of the United States.
Boo hoo. Want a frickin’ cookie? A hanky maybe?
“U.S. tax payers footed the bill for the creation of the Internet.”
Does the US owns the rest of the worlds phones and fax machines as well, or just the interent ?
You created the internet as a tool of war, others made it into a tool for humanity.
No. US tax payers footed the bill for some of the research / US based infrastructure at best. The rest of the world payed for and maintains their own infrastructure. By connecting US networks to other networks around the world doesn’t / didn’t cause US tax payer money to be spent.
Then bare in mind that what 99% of the world see as the internet, the www, was created in switzerland/france at cern. Last time I checked the US wasn’t in europe so didn’t contribute towards this.
…and the U.S. out of the U.N. The U.N. exists mostly to try to allow the rest of the world an opportunity to collude towards the goal of infringing upon U.S. sovereignty and co-opting American property for global use.
Said like someone who has never actually studied the history of the UN, and has never actually been exposed to the workings of international order. The UN was created to enhance US power, not to diminish it. In a time when it was the Soviet Union versus the West, the UN was a creation that purported to unite the world, under Western terms. Throughout its history, the UN has been instrumental in disseminating American foreign policy. Sure, Americans only ever hear about the times when the UN pushes back (blame the media), but what they don’t hear about is all the times the UN has served as a tool with which the US can promulgate its international agenda.
“…when it was the Soviet Union versus the West, the UN was a creation that purported to unite the world, under Western terms. Throughout its history, the UN has been instrumental in disseminating American foreign policy.”
And since the UN is no longer disseminating our evil foreign policy, I for one agree we should no longer participate in such a corrupt organization.
Said like someone who has never actually studied the history of the UN, and has never actually been exposed to the workings of international order. The UN was created to enhance US power, not to diminish it. In a time when it was the Soviet Union versus the West, the UN was a creation that purported to unite the world, under Western terms. Throughout its history, the UN has been instrumental in disseminating American foreign policy. Sure, Americans only ever hear about the times when the UN pushes back (blame the media), but what they don’t hear about is all the times the UN has served as a tool with which the US can promulgate its international agenda.
——————–
And what would that be? Make sure that countries have stable, friendly governments so that we can all get along? Maybe the road taken to get there is questionable, but hell, nothing is perfect. Mistakes are made. Does it make sense, then, to just disband the UN?
I could see giving control over to some body that is not the UN. Do you really want to give a say to how the internet is managed to such guardians of liberty and spam control as China? Remember this is the same organization that put Libya, Syria, and Sudan on the Human Rights Commission…
I would not be opposed of turning control of the internet over to an international body as long as it had an internet Bill of Rights. Please just don’t turn it over to the UN.
The way the Internet works in the US seems very good, to me. Take for example, my native Croatia, where you can’t get a domain unless you are a registered company. Same with Finland where I live, untile a year ago! You have no idea how I hate this restriction.
Contrast this to the US, where absolutely anyone can register a domain. And by anyone I mean not only simple citizens, but also foreigners. So, obviously, my domain is under .com and not .fi or .hr. I could have registered it under .us, too, if so I chose. There are other countries that are as open in this regard as the US, but the way the UN works, the result would be a mixture of good and bad. Just like the decisions taken by the General Assembly or even the Security Council, which are an average of the national interests of the member countries. Hate my post if you want, by I prefere the US way of handling the Internet than most other countries, including Russia and China.
It has nothing to do with your country’s gov. It has to do with the lack of IP the US regulatory gave to your country. I’m guessing that if Croaty had a high number of IP available, things would be different.
Sorry Croatia and not Croaty. I’m not used to using country names in a different language than mine (I’m French by the way).
Sorry, it has everything to do with a country’s laws and therefore, lawmakers (or, in other words, government). Some countries are worse than others in this respect, that’s all.
On a side note: to illustrate just how bad the situation in Finland used to be, I’ll tell you that even many Finnish companies (who therefore, had the right to register .fi domains) opted for .com or .net domains, because it was cheaper. Finlands largest auction site is, for example, huuto.net. One of the largest online retailers is hetanttila.com, and the largest computer hardware store is http://www.verkkokauppa.net. Why was it expensive to register a .fi? because of the monopolistic status the finnish registrars were in. It was all a bit too communist-bureocracy-like.
My suggestion would be to fix the problem within your country. You just said that it is cheaper to register with US controlled domain versus the Finnish controlling body. Now imagine if the UN had control of this. Do you really think it would be cheaper?
I am not bashing Europeans here, I am just pointing out facts. Typically, items/services are cheaper to purchase in the US versus in Europe.
Now imagine if the UN had control of this. Do you really think it would be cheaper?
I completely agree with you (you may notice that if you read the thread I started). In fact, I am afraid of UN’s bureocracy, which probably matches and surpasses that of croatia’s and finland’s combined. And with countries that want to control the content on the net like China or Iran (and these oppressive regimes are either the majority, or have the backing of countries that have vested interest in them, like EU in Russia and China), the way the internet would be regulated can be only less open than it is now. An average of good and shit is .. a bit less smelly shit.
Your equation is excellent.
Thats because you’re TLD administrator has imposed those restrictions. Most other countries allow everybody to buy, tho some require native citizenship
Whatever you think of undue US influence in Internet affairs, can you reall imagine what it would be like if the EU had a hand in it?
I am a UK citizen broadly in favor of better EU ties.
However, I consider the EU Beurocratic and over burdened with burnt out national politicians, all of whom appear to consider it their national duty to bicker over mostly meaningless minutie. (There are exceptions, but they tend to get drowned out in the noise. Its like a micocosm of Usenet.)
The thing to realise is that the Internet has this influence for a reason. The backbone and structures of the internet were funded by US govenments and corperations over the course of the last 40 years or so.
Really technically the internet should be controlled mostly by US corperations, as most of it is owned by them, in the same way I feel I own my TV because i paid for it.
A UK citizen in favour of better EU ties? A pity you’re not European. It’s nice. Ask some frenchmen about it…
Im a UK citizen too and i have to say thats the best description of the EU ive ever heard.
“The EU: Its like a microcosm of usenet”
haha!
You people realise that some pretty restrictive countries are in the UN, right? Im not too keen on the internet being in american control but at least that doesnt leave it open to all the political scuffling and dealing itll be under if we put it on the board, so to speak.
I say we need to give the internet to something pure. something innocent. give the internet to the children. or better yet, http://www.sealandgov.com/ .
I’m not sure I completely understand this situation… I know that the US has complete control over the DNS system (and unless everyone wants to use IP addresses, this basically means “the Internet”). But what is wrong with this? It seems that ICANN is very easy about registering domains to basically ANYONE who wants one. Everything seems to work the way it is. What would we gain by having this governed by the UN or some international body?
Please note that I am not in any way asking this rhetorically or to imply that the US should (or should not) have control. I’m just trying to see how such a move would benefit the Internet and it’s users.
-Eric
Oh, and if it’s about the lack of address space allocated to certain countries (and overall lack of address space by IPv4), wouldn’t IPv6 solve this problem and give everyone more than enough IP addresses??
-Eric
Giving up control to political body is unacceptable. How much installed based to many of these third world countries have anyway??? Most of the traffic is US and european. Giving the europeans more latitude would be a start. Ultimately giving control to some sort of technical organization like IEEE is the best solution in the long run.
Ultimately giving control to some sort of technical organization like IEEE is the best solution in the long run.
exactly… i could give a f–k who controls it as long as it isn’t politicians. technical groups like the IEEE are much more reasonable than the childish antics of the worlds leaders. i also can’t believe this comment went unnoticed in favor of the ridiculous ‘America vs. The World’ ™ bullshit this thread consists of.
I think this is a good thing in the long run. It’s time for the US and US companies to stop raping the internet. Remember the good old days back when it was Darpa-net, when ICANN wasn’t a group of control freaks. I can’t wait for IPv6 to get standardized in the US, and for this ridiculous corporate/governmental control over the internet to cease.
Well I hope it does, but its euro asses that are slacking in that field as well as us lazy fat rude americans.
How exactly are US companies “raping the internet”…??
Examples, please… Even one would help.
shh dont let the fact get in the way of their propaganda
One example:
Compare the cost of Broadband access in the US with other “1st world” countries.
Next example:
The control the multinationals have over US policy since they purchased the executive and legislative branches fair and square…
For the others on the planet who complain that they have no control over the US:
All you have to do is offer more money to purchase the US politicians than the multinational corporations do and they will do your bidding!!!
Next problem!
Again:
What is it that you currently are unable to do that you hope to gain by having the UN control ICANN?
is .xxx really a hotbutton issue for you that control must be “given” to the UN?
The countries who specifically are claiming to want “democratic control” of ICANN ARE THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY BAN THE WORD “DEMOCRACY” FROM THEIR OWN INTERNETS along with “freedom of religion” “tianeman square” and any other non-government sponsored political cause or unpopular religious group.
The US run ICANN does not block ANY unpopular politcal group or unpopular religious belief (remember hale bop?) no matter how rediculous or offensive–THAT is freedom.
China jails webbloggers who post non-government approved speech, like any information about Tianemen Square for example. But you want to give them control because you hate the U.S.A. and are trying to find ANY means to spite them.
think about the consenquences for just a moment when mainland china hires hackers to break into Taiwan’s government and industrial computers to steal information. THE GOVERNMENT SPONSERS THAT ACTIVITY.
Please note that I am not in any way asking this rhetorically or to imply that the US should (or should not) have control. I’m just trying to see how such a move would benefit the Internet and it’s users.
It’s the same as with monitoring email traffic to capture criminals. While not posing any real trouble to people, people will still be against it, because it infringes privacy.
The fact that the US, just a country, controls stuff that directly affect normal people around the world, without them having a say in it, is just wrong.
Before the disaster with the .xxx domain, I didn’t give a damn about all this. While I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about this .xxx domain, the fact that the US government decided against it with political/religious reasoning is just unacceptable.
Now it’s the .xxx domain, what will Bush & Gov. ban next?
get over it. So what if a Brit invented HTML. It’s not America’s fault your countries governments don’t know what to do with their own people’s inventions. America is all about making money. Why? because we don’t want ice to become a luxury. Because we want to drive SUVs through all this wide open country side. Maybe were a pompass nation, but maybe we are more out of defense than anything else. Why should we loose what we all worked so hard to acquire, whether it was ours to begin with or not.
Don’t blame the United States because your countries won’t let you buy domain names. Don’t blame our government for your government’s lack of vision. Oh and by the way, thanks for that linux thing, it’s a lot of fun.
Well done, you summed up everything I hate about American attitude in one post.
Even if suddenly everybody in Britain bought a 4×4 and started driving everywhere for no reason it would mean squit against how much damage and waste America is doing every day. Don’t worry, you’ll reap what you sow.
A ” Brit did NOT invented HTML” a Britt INVENTED THE WORLD WIDE WEB” take the www away from the internet and what do you have?
The World Does NOT need the Internet. IPv6 and simple MPLS over Internet Protocol for Switched Everricular Optical Routing with statefull inspection engines will enable the world to create their own comunities in cyberspace without the need of the ancient slow and high latency crap that the internet is Today.(there is plenty of bandwith available cheap) then statefull inspection engines with IDS will block and drop all traffic from and to the USA in fact isolating it from the rest of humanity.
In case you are wondering what Internet Protocol for Switched Everricular Optical Routing is “It is a current traffic engineering Pending Patent written by 3 Canadians of which I am one of them” It is facing Oposition by the usa and the BIG TELCOS since it will effectivelly ruin them all allowing anyone with routing skills to add themselves to all MPLS communities or specific ones over a simple Layer 2 infra-structure. EGRP and CWFQ will then take care of the encapsulated Frame dis-assembled it and route it to the proper destination based of COS and QOS mechanism with preset policies.
Engineering Minds Over the world united to create modify and enhance the Internet Protocol and as a result G3 with VoIP and VCoIP have been in existance and working exceptionally in other countries and NON existant in the USA …cheez I wonder why? since you are such a great wonderfull superpower of invention.
I say let the usa keep the internet let us implement out own worldnet and then keep them out of it. and lets see how many wars the good Ole USA is going to fight to assert control of the newly created Worlnet and then claim it as their own invention
BTW.. IPv6 is NOT a USA Invention so once it is implemented even across the existing infra-extructure the USA Looses Jurisdition.
Must be upseting to know that “That Linux Thing aint american is it? ” (take a blood pressure pill or you may get a heart attack”
before you reply to this i sugest you read up on technology or go to school moronic replys will not be answered.
my CCIE CCSE IDSE BsC $0.02
Cheers
“Must be upseting to know that “That Linux Thing aint american is it? ” (take a blood pressure pill or you may get a heart attack”
right and what exaclty is linux a copy of? oh yeah unix. dumbass
Go back to school and please finish the second grade. linux it is NOT a copy of UNIX
do yourself a favour google for some guy named Linus Torvalds read up….then google for groklaw SCO vs IBM vs Red hat vs Novel vs Linux vs every open source developer in the world.. and read up some more (You do know how to read …right )
well you will find enlightement.
your name calling is a direct reflection of the high level of education, decency, human manners, and principals you have keep it up. it is very amusing and entertaining to see posts like yours.
cheers
right, of course, linux is not a copy of unix. in fact even if there were no unix, linux would have magically appeared and created its own user permission system just like unix would have. its monolitic kernel would magically come to Linus in a dream. Seriously, go read a book or better yet, read the flame war on cpm.os.minix when linux was announced and you will see how much of a copy of unix it is.
“Must be upseting to know that “That Linux Thing aint american is it? ” (take a blood pressure pill or you may get a heart attack”
right and what exaclty is linux a copy of? oh yeah unix. dumbass
————————–
I’m pretty sure it was not a “copy” as you call it. It was designed to function like it, but the code was written from scratch. You may need to do some more research.
“BTW.. IPv6 is NOT a USA Invention so once it is implemented even across the existing infra-extructure the USA Looses Jurisdition…before you reply to this i sugest you read up on technology or go to school moronic replys will not be answered.”
BTW!!! IPv6 was invented by Steve Deering and Craig Mudge at Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, California, USA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6
“In case you are wondering what Internet Protocol for Switched Everricular Optical Routing is “It is a current traffic engineering Pending Patent written by 3 Canadians of which I am one of them”
“In case you are wondering what Internet Protocol for Switched Everricular Optical Routing is “It is a current traffic engineering Pending Patent written by 3 Canadians of which I am one of them” It is facing Oposition by the usa and the BIG TELCOS since it will effectivelly ruin them all allowing anyone with routing skills to add themselves to all MPLS communities or specific ones over a simple Layer 2 infra-structure. EGRP and CWFQ will then take care of the encapsulated Frame dis-assembled it and route it to the proper destination based of COS and QOS mechanism with preset policies. ” – Wrong, AT&T is using MPLS and IPv6
Some service providers, such as Sprint, are not using MPLS, while others, such as AT&T, are betting on the technology and using it throughout their data networks.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3649/is_200305/ai_n9279…
Who are you? Are we to believe that you are the inventor of IPv6 and MPLS? Inventor of switching optical routers? IPv6 over MPLS? MPLS over IPv6? Give more detail, AND give factual information!!!
Are you even checking for replies? Since you probably aren’t watching this thread anymore, I guess this is a moronic reply serving little purpose, except to discredit you.
Ditto 😉 now go back some more and find out where I am from………you’ll find out I am Canadian.
cheers
Must be upseting to know that “That Linux Thing aint american is it? ” (take a blood pressure pill or you may get a heart attack”
——————-
Maybe the original statement that Linux was American was a bit off, but keep in mind, they may have meant that not really meaning just the kernel (which is useless without apps) – Linux. Look at GNU and GCC. That is more or less associated with the US due to UC/Berkeley. No?
In any case, what does it matter who invented what? This is open stuff that was graciously donated to the world, each by it’s contributors. Why do you guys feel the need to try and establish national ownership of these gifts? Grow up.
you are the type of idiot that makes me ashamed of being an american.
Ummmmm, I think the “we built it, if you want control, go and build your own” point is moot. It seems more like the US is being given a chance before other countries do go and build their own.
Yanking domain control is not such a huge thing. Just point the top level queries elsewhere. If different bodies start handing out overlapping IP ranges, that could be a mess. Talk about one way to speed IPv6 adaptation.
Come to think of it, with all the outsourcing, any future US contributions are likely to come from India anyway, so what’s the big deal… *grin*
ha ha yeah becasue there is a HUGE amount of RnD being done in India. Go look at which country spends the most in scientific research and take a look at any big US university.
Von Neumann ? turing ? Pascal ?
from the “rest of the world” for “doped meat eater”
et yen a plein le cul de parler toujours en anglais tout ca pour des connards
>Most of the traffic is US and european.
And the asian traffic is non existant I guess?
What a joke really…
I really can’t wait for the split if US governement continue this non sense.
“And the asian traffic is non existant I guess? ”
That’s correct to a considerable extent, most of their traffic gets lost in horrible packet loss:
http://www.internettrafficreport.com/main.htm
A good chunk of the rest is probably USA based SPAMMING operatings, grin. In short, many of the Asian networks need to clean their own acts up before fussing about others.
“What a joke really… ”
Sorry if the truth hurts so bad.
“I really can’t wait for the split if US governement continue this non sense.”
Then I guess you best be glad we started the non-sense eh? How intellectually dishonest can you be to make that statement. The US will retain control till we see a better option out there. Even then, those that want to bitch about America will still not be happy, they are too miserable to ever give us credit for anything so why should we care about their opinions on something they wouldn’t have today, in it’s present form, if we hadn’t built it to begin with.
THe joke is those that are bitching about America and Bush when their own laundry is pretty darn dirty too.
JT
>That’s correct to a considerable extent, most of their traffic gets lost in horrible packet loss:
When you try to get a point, at least post something related.
Packet lost traffic != overall traffic.
So by your stupid ( yes it’s stupid ) logic, south america traffic is more important than european and US one?
And where in my reply did I say anyone’s traffic is more important than the other? Nowhere. Just pointing out the condition of their network infrastructor. Guess that’s the fault of USA?
Resort to name calling, you instantly loose the arguement and credibility.
Pretty clear from your other posts, no one is going to change your mind, you’re only going to read into things that which already fits your agenda, so hate away, flame away, go for it, only hurting yourself being so negative. Again, get your own act together, get your government’s act together, then maybe you’ll have some credibility when you fuss about others.
I noticed you ignored the rest of my post, so have it again:
A good chunk of the rest is probably USA based SPAMMING operatings, grin. In short, many of the Asian networks need to clean their own acts up before fussing about others.
“What a joke really… ”
Sorry if the truth hurts so bad.
“I really can’t wait for the split if US governement continue this non sense.”
Then I guess you best be glad we started the non-sense eh? How intellectually dishonest can you be to make that statement. The US will retain control till we see a better option out there. Even then, those that want to bitch about America will still not be happy, they are too miserable to ever give us credit for anything so why should we care about their opinions on something they wouldn’t have today, in it’s present form, if we hadn’t built it to begin with.
THe joke is those that are bitching about America and Bush when their own laundry is pretty darn dirty too.
JT
We don’t want to control it. We just want to have our say in it tooo so that our language can be used in DNS names and us not having to run to the US Govt. to get IP addresses for our citizens. The Internet is being used to propergate a ‘minimum English required’ policy on others.
Eventually, like evrything else, the world will invent something else and move on to it.
If English is acceptable enough to be used as the common language between pilots and air traffic controllers in the airline industry, why couldn’t it also be used to describe internet addresses?
Isn’t such inconsistency hypocitical?
not a valid argument. Everybody in the world is a potential intenet user, but very few are pilots or air traffic controllers.
Hmmm. Good point. Too bad each country doesn’t have its own DNS in its own language. Maybe that’s the answer.
Gee here’s a very good reason to not have the U.N. controlling the internet.
“As far back as 1999, U.N. agencies have mulled imposing taxes on Internet e-mail.”
“WE BUILT THE INTERNET WITH OUR TAXE MONEY, YOU CAN’T HAVE IT!!!!!!!!”
Even if the UN offered some form of reinbursement you’d still find something to bitch about. Maybe how they want to infringe on your supposed freedom, or your freedom to play risk without a board.
I can’t wait until the UN invasion.
“Even if the UN offered some form of reinbursement you’d still find something to bitch about. Maybe how they want to infringe on your supposed freedom, or your freedom to play risk without a board.
I can’t wait until the UN invasion.”
Quite possibly the stupidest post ever.
Umm, where do you suppose the money in the UN’s budget comes from? Since you seem so ignorant of this I’ll tell you. It comes from the taxpayers of the member states, with the lion’s share coming from the United States. So the UN giving us back our own money to buy control of the DNS system must be a pretty good deal for everybody (except the US).
And just where does this magical UN invading force of yours come from?
Ugh, the lions share does not come from the US. If I remember correctly, the US seems to have a problem paying their dues. But w/e.
I hold a dual citizenship, Nigerian (37 years) and American (1 year) so I have an internationalist view of this non-issue.
This internet was created using research funds from the US defense department during the cold war to disperse and protect US data in the case of a nuclear attack. It has grown and prospered thanks mainly to the input of US capitalist corporations.
This invention was at a time when 2/3 of the world’s population was betting on Socialism to overcome the US system. I was a student in Nigeria during this period and know first hand how Karl Marx was loved and how much the US was villified. Socialism imploded woefully and lost the argument. Now they want to smuggle it in through the back door of the UN. My response is: Go get a life you losers and create your own system.
With the flexibility and openness of DNS and TCP/IP nothing prevents any country from creating a parallel web and allowing or denying anyone they choose to share.
Processors that drive our PCs are Americans. Operation system that most of us use to drive our PCs is American. Linux, started by a Finn, but still essentially American.
Internet is American.
Maybe rest of the world should consertrate on innovating new things and stop whining?
> Processors that drive our PCs are Americans.
True, the company’s were started in the usa. But i bet they use alot of technology invented in the rest of the world.
> Linux, started by a Finn, but still essentially American.
LOL?
The truth is, that almost all products are using products invented in other places of the world.
I mean, you could also say that CD’s were invented by Philips and Sony (respectivly dutch an japanes). So without those companies, you would still be installing your computer with floppies 😉
“Processors that drive our PCs are Americans. Operation system that most of us use to drive our PCs is American.”
Yeap, the world would be better off without America eh?
“Linux, started by a Finn, but still essentially American.”
And you notice what country he moved to the moment he got the chance to. America.
“Internet is American.”
Another gift to to the world that catch spit in our faces if we attempt to keep any control of it’s.
“Maybe rest of the world should consertrate on innovating new things and stop whining?”
Innovating takes effort, bitching about how horrible America is doesn’t. Many of them can bitch about America, but don’t dare cast that same critical eye on their own governments (yeah, in some countries they don’t dare bitch about their own leaders, grin).
Come on folks, do you REALLY want the UN in control of the internet? Set your hate for Bush/America aside and be honest with yourselves. Didn’t think so.
JT
lets not forget that linux is a clone of unix (another american creation). no unix and there would be no linux to copy it.
Linux started as a copy of Minux which is not US in origin; go by the book on Minux if you don’t believe it…
err no. read the flame war. Besides, what is minix a copy of? i’ll give you a hint it begins with a U and ends in ix
Come on folks, do you REALLY want the UN in control of the internet? Set your hate for Bush/America aside and be honest with yourselves. Didn’t think so.
Didn’t think so? Well, then you’re wrong
That’s just great.
Claim Linux as American, why don’t you?
Hell, I guess every single large innovation ever existed is American, right?
Get a clue..
Linux is not American, it’s internationally owned and produced, and it was invented by a Finn.
Sure, the internet was born in America, but most of the technologies actually used in _today’s_ internet was _not_ born in America (html, www, and so on), and still American’s seem to like to claim the entire internet as their’s.. Why’s that?
To me, it seems like the rest of the world have been, and still are, happily sharing their innovations with everyone else without limitations, while America tend to only let other’s use their stuff but keep all ownership and control to themselves, even if the products have been improved upon by others.
Without the international contributions and innovations that build up todays internet, it would be nothing.
Sure, America could very well have made those things themselves, but they didn’t as they already existed.
Same as the rest of the world could very well have made their own DNS system, etc, to be used with html, but they didn’t as there already existed a system for it.
Co-operation should be a non-issue, but while the rest of the world seem fine with giving up control to key technologies all the time, the US seem unwilling to do the same.
my €0.02
Linux, started by a Finn, but still essentially American.
God, I’m starting to get worried. I sometimes write free software for Linux. As I get your comment, I will soon be proclaimed American citizen. Now, that would be a reason enough to stop writing free software for Linux. Anything but American citizen. Whip, me, hang me, do whatever you want just take away your American citizenship.
i think he means it is a copy of unix which is american
Might want to ask yourselves what would happen if America suddenly ceased to exist. Be intellectually honest with yourself when you answer. THink your country/life has problems now, it wouldn’t be any better without the USA.
We funded it, we built it, it’s our baby is only 50% of it. Last thing the internet needs is to be under the control of the UN which is full of a bunch of dictators and folks that are little shy of terrorists themselves. We’d be just as well off letting China control it, read censor it.
No sense in bashing the US for SPAM. Not denying most if originates here. Lot of it is sent via servers in countries that seem to have no desire to control their own networks and are either intentionally or unintentionlly non-responsive to complaints. Got many countries in Europe, the former Soviet Union, China, Korea, and others that simply are pure “slums” of the internet.
Haven’t read too many (if any) stories about foreign spammers being busted. Usually Americans or Brit’s trying to clean up our networks. Maybe if other countries with slum networks would get their act together, form a international body that is more respectable than the joke the UN is, then maybe we might agree to relinquish control.
Stop bashing American’s, it’s intellectually dishonest when your own laundry isn’t exactly bright white either. IF you think we’re a problem, you best:
1. pull head out of sand.
2. open eyes.
3. get a clue
4. quit buying every Bush or American bashing article you read or biased opinion of your friends.
5. In short, learn to think for yourselves and stop swallowing propaganda because it fits your preconceived attitude.
Everytime there is a big problem in the world, who does everyone come crying to? Yeah. How’s them apples.
For those already set to hate America and Americans, no outcome of this issue would of changed your minds now would it? Didn’t think so. Hate away, only hurting yourselves and not changing a darn thing.
JT
God, your post made me think of what my English teacher (who was a US citizen living in France) told us: there is a big conception in US that the rest of the world hate them, that the rest of the world is full of bad people who want to gain something from them.
I never thougth that was actually true….
“God, your post made me think of what my English teacher (who was a US citizen living in France) told us: there is a big conception in US that the rest of the world hate them, that the rest of the world is full of bad people who want to gain something from them.
I never thougth that was actually true….”
Read the comments on this article. Here, at least, everybody else DOES seem to hate us.
Read the comments on this article. Here, at least, everybody else DOES seem to hate us.
————————–
But did you also read the posts from your fellow countrymen that actually gave a reason to hate you?
did you read the comments that got his fellow country men to write such things? go to the one about how great Pearl harbor and 9/11 was. Add to that the fact that the post is about you demanding the US hand over something it created and you can see why we hate you.
The only thing we are saying is if you dont liek the way the net uis run, go start your own Euro net leave the net we use alone. why do you have to demand that we give over control of the internet to the UN or the EU. Of course you dont want your own net, you want us to bow to you. (which will never happen)
I can match the trolling comments with equal trolling comments from your side
I can match also equally intelligent comments why it isn’t a wholly American creation and why no govt should have control, so your point is what exactly?
my point is that the US made and runs the current DNS and IP systems . that is something that is not being disputed. if the EU, china, iran , lybia et al want to control their own networks, they shoudl start their own and leave the one that we are using alone.
I have not problem with the EU splitting off into a EU net. Taht is what we are saying you should do. What your side is demanding is that it be given control of the servers the US currently runs.
basically, you are not satisfied with your own toy, you want the toy we are playing with.
I think it was a misunderstanding (if not, that’s a stupid guy). What I understood from his post is : what did you US citizens learn from this fact ? What did it change in your way of dealing with international relationships ? From what we see in this article, nothing.
this is the post that started the flame war
”
This is why you are the most hated country on the planet, i’ve seen comments like that come thick and fast.
I guess next you’ll be saying you won WW2, after Japan gave you the biggest thrashing in your history on your own ground. learned yet?, no!, 9/11 still not a lesson? because they came over and showed you.
“
ignoring the claim that Japan won WW2 or the Perl Harbor was a just attack. if the part at the bottom does not seem jubliant we see things differently. Also keep in mind many americans know people who were killed on 9/11 since it was just 4 years ago.
If you went to France 1944 and say something similar about Germans and France and you might have gotten a similar response (or worse)
I’ve read almost every article. But I live in France, and we talked a lot about what we think of US citizens. Things are very different from what it seems. I have been really impressed with some US citizens, who have been the most cultivated persons I’ve met. I love the way you can react to bad events in your life and fight back to make it better. Believe me or not, but most of us really like US citizens, but we hate the arrogant ones (a small percentage that talks too much).
There is a problem of communication, that’s for sure. And there are some cultural things I will never understand (patriotism for example). But never believe than the rest of the world hates you, that totally depends of who you personaly are.
“There is a problem of communication, that’s for sure. And there are some cultural things I will never understand (patriotism for example).”
actually, i read the international new alot. remember the time Pepsi tried to buy a major stake in Orangina? do you remember the “patriotism” in france? how about the replacement of email with “courriel” (sp?) same thing. if anything the french out to undersnd that bit.
I do remember that. You know, there are some thing I don’t even understand in my own country
You know, the really interesting thing is that Bush et. all cannot block a .xxx TLD. Anyone care to hazzard a guess as to why?
The person that says a registrar that puts it up and gets several major DNS servers around the world to use it will eventually get everyone except the forbidden root servers to use it. It’s really not that hard to set up with BIND or djbdns. Hell, alternic has been doing the same thing for years, they just never had recognition on a large scale.
I hold a dual citizenship, Nigerian (37 years) and American (1 year) so I have an internationalist view of this non-issue.
This internet was created using research funds from the US defense department during the cold war to disperse and protect US data in the case of a nuclear attack. It has grown and prospered thanks mainly to the input of US capitalist corporations.
This invention was at a time when 2/3 of the world’s population was betting on Socialism to overcome the US system. I was a student in Nigeria during this period and know first hand how Karl Marx was loved and how much the US was villified. Socialism imploded woefully and lost the argument. Now they want to smuggle it in through the back door of the UN. My response is: GO GET A LIFE YOU LOSERS AND BUILD YOUR OWN SYSTEM
With the flexibility and openness of DNS and TCP/IP nothing prevents any country from creating a parallel web and allowing or denying anyone they choose to share.
so proud to be now american
immigrants are worst citizens,
because they are so proud of themself
Effectively, OS News has become Slashdot Lite. It’s full of screaming Linux crybabies and true blue born-again American freedom fighters. Well, sorry guys. Windows and the the rest of the world exist.
I know this is flamebait, but I’m not in the mood to give a shit. America, like the Slashdot zealots, hasn’t got a grip on where the limits are, and if a good thwack around the head is what they need, so be it.
What is it whith America and China? Every time I see issues of freedom and the internet, the zealots jump in. Personally, I think it’s a great idea that the limits of what permissible should be examined.
Drawing on a British example, some wise guys thought they could whack up advertising down the side of motorways. Why? Oh, they do that in America, whine, whine, whine. That’s America. This is here.
What’s this moaning about Europe from the other British guy? Screw you. I remember when people were begging the European Union to intervene when Thatcher and her cronies were raping this country and ruining lives.
I’m pretty sick at how OS News has turned into such a steaming pile of shite, and how the internet has just become another vehicle for the dumb and the greedy. It would be nice if there is a shakedown. It’s overdue.
I know this is flamebait, but I’m not in the mood to give a shit.
Apparently you “give a shit” enough to post here. 🙂
You mean a bunch of dictators and bureaucrats are complaining because the U.S. has dictatoral control over the internet ? You can’t buy this kind of entertainment this is funny. People who crave power complaining the U.S. has to much control. Ha ha ha ha.
“You mean a bunch of dictators and bureaucrats are complaining because the U.S. has dictatoral control over the internet ? You can’t buy this kind of entertainment this is funny. People who crave power complaining the U.S. has to much control. Ha ha ha ha.”
Best point I’ve seen yet!
Guess we need to put Al Gore in charge of the internet, then maybe they’d be happy. Not! Those fussing would fuss regardless, hatred, not logic guides them.
With all the Bush and anti-american’ism out there, I’ll venture to say this topic will probably hold the all time record # of comments on OSNEWS, grin.
JT
I just don’t get how many people don’t understand what is actually happening. It must be knee-jerk response. Most comments here are about the U.S. will not give the “Internet” away or about how ICANN submits to political pressure. What is really being suggested by the UN is that all nations have a say in the running of the infrastructure. The fact that the .xxx name was blocked by the U.S. gov shows that they mistakenly think the right has been granted to them to dictate policy to the world. A point of view Bush likes to use frequently. At the end of the day, no one outside the U.S. voted for Bush nor did they vote for the U.S.A. so what gives him the right to tell everyone else what to do. Nothing! That’s what. I can’t stand the UN personally but I have to back them on this because at least it represents more than just a single country run by a government with a belief that they are morally superior.
The argument isn’t about taking control from ICANN, nor is it about letting “questionable nations” censor the Internet. The U.S. is being invited to participate in a globally controlled network. If they decline they will be the only ones who lose. Not only in technical terms of loss of functionality but in political terms for behaving like a spoiled brat. The rest of the world will still have access to U.S. sites but without cooperating the U.S. will find themselves unable to contact new parts of “the web”.
Stock,
The root servers are in the US funded by US tax payer dollars. There is no global control. There is no invitation to some non-existant “global community of friendship.”
How exactly would you enforce all pornographic websites to switch to .XXX? who is going to make that judgement on the billions of websites out there? The idea is not enforceable realistically.
“Questionable nations” are the ones who have proposed the UN control ICANN. If you believe there is no hidden agenda you’re a fool.
Really? even the root server hosted in japan? or the one in the uk?
The UN would say.. its not fair China has a problem we have to ban the word FREEDOM! ohhh.. and anything else that we don’t like but its easy to ban, we hate owning up to our position but we have to play fair…
Another flamefest.
Well, here’s my 2 cents.
Americans: If you cannot grasp the concept that without the rest of the world you are nothing, zilch, nada, you do nothing but spread the impression that all americans are major leage idiots that suck ass big time. Maybe someone among you invented this or that, who gives a rats as? To paraphrase Gallileo, yoy stood on the shoulders of gigants. What you did then was borrowing a shitload of money, which you are still doing this very minute, coherced/persuaded/took advantage of people in trouble some bright minds from abroad to work for you. (People like Werner Von Braun, and Einstein who essentially was war loot/refugees). The world is still waiting for repayment, unfortunately it seems you assholes seems intent on paying back in DRM, bad movies, wars and an arrogance that could put the nazis to shame.
Europeans: You should know better than arguing with shitheads.
213.114.88.—
Explains a lot 😉
“Americans: If you cannot grasp the concept that without the rest of the world you are nothing, zilch, nada, you do nothing but spread the impression that all americans are major leage idiots that suck ass big time.”
And without us where would you be. The problem is folks like yourself can’t bring yourself to admit that we need each other. You’d love to disassociate yourself from everything American, but you can’t. It’s a global economy, what’s bad for America is usually bad for the rest of the world. Get over it.
“To paraphrase Gallileo, yoy stood on the shoulders of gigants.”
I tend to think you got that one reversed. We built the foundation, US and others built on top of it to make it what it is today.
“The world is still waiting for repayment, unfortunately it seems you assholes seems intent on paying back in DRM, bad movies, wars and an arrogance that could put the nazis to shame.”
Assholes eh? Like your comment there is so commendable eh? When you result to name calling, you instantly loose the arguement and any credibility. You can do better.
“paying back in DRM, bad movies,”
Stop buying them, we’ll stop making them, grin. No arguement from me for DRM. No arguement that our hollywood sucks anymore (they too busy hating Bush to write a decent movie or be intellectually honest with themselves).
“wars and an arrogance that could put the nazis to shame”
If you honestly stand behind the Nazi comment, then you’re sadly misguided, uninformed, and
Is Bush perfect? Nope.
Is America perfect? Nope.
Is your leader perfect? Nope
Is your country perfect? Nope
Will anything we say or do change your hatred? Nope
Do I need to go on? Nope
Do you see the pattern developing?
May I point you to the text of the song called “The American’s” can be found about halfway down this page:
http://www.kjvuser.com/sept11.htm
How about we ALL learn to get along, forget Bush (he’ll be gone soon then you’ll have someone else to fuss about too), realize each others inperfections, be cautious of judging folks based on their leaders, respect countries that want to execise some control over things they built, and realize that we all need each other to some extent?
JT
Dear 216.68.163.— 🙂
I think you are misunderstanding a few of my points.
And without us where would you be. The problem is folks like yourself can’t bring yourself to admit that we need each other. You’d love to disassociate yourself from everything American, but you can’t. It’s a global economy, what’s bad for America is usually bad for the rest of the world. Get over it.
This is part of the thing I’m talking about.. where we would be without you? I don’t know, but we would probably still be. What would the US be without the rest of the world? Indians in wigwams.
I tend to think you got that one reversed. We built the foundation, US and others built on top of it to make it what it is today.
No I didn’t. Where would *you* be without Einstein, Newton, Gallileo, Archimedes, Pythagoras and so on. Talk about foundations.
Assholes eh? Like your comment there is so commendable eh? When you result to name calling, you instantly loose the arguement and any credibility. You can do better.
My comment was commendable? I have no idea, it’s the truth though, and if it doesn’t sit well with you it’s probably an indication that it hits too close for comfort. The point I’m making is not that all americans are assholes, but rather that some of you are behaving extremely arrogant while a lot of things you claim to have “invented” and take such great pride in really couldn’t have happened without others.
“paying back in DRM, bad movies,”
Stop buying them, we’ll stop making them, grin. No arguement from me for DRM. No arguement that our hollywood sucks anymore (they too busy hating Bush to write a decent movie or be intellectually honest with themselves).
Well, those things were the first things to spring to my mind when I tried to think of what you guys have been exporting to the rest of the world lately. I’m sorry I forgot that the term “War” is no longer used but have been replaced with “Democracy”.
“wars and an arrogance that could put the nazis to shame”
If you honestly stand behind the Nazi comment, then you’re sadly misguided, uninformed, and
If you ever had the guts to look at your country without blinders you’d see that you are more and more turning into a police-state (do I need to mention the PATRIOT act?), the concentration camps are already in place (in guantanamo, iraq, afganistan etc.) as is the use of torture, either in places supposedly closed to the public eye (abu-graib) or by proxys (sending “suspects” to willing tormentors in Egypt and other places). So pray tell, if we exclude the deathcamps what are the differences? The arrogant über-mensch mentality certainly seems to be in place. At least the nazis had the decency not to pretend to be “defending the values of freedom and democracy”.
Will anything we say or do change your hatred? Nope
Do I need to go on? Nope
Yeah, changing your behaviour is such a pain, it’s much easier to proclaim your oponent to be rabid and full of hatred. Look closely in the mirror and I’m pretty sure you’ll find the demon you are trying to picture me as.
How about we ALL learn to get along, forget Bush
First sensible thing you’ve written so far, too bad this isn’t about Bush. However, he’s just the symptom of the disease.
be cautious of judging folks based on their leaders, respect countries that want to execise some control over things they built
But you didn’t. You created something initial, using a lot of old stuff comming from all over the world, and mixed it with a lot of good thinking. But you can’t claim with a straight face that arpanet was much like the Internet.. And finally, what the people elects as their leader reflects back on it in a democracy. You know, someone voted for that shithead..
If you ever had the guts to look at your country without blinders you’d see that you are more and more turning into a police-state (do I need to mention the PATRIOT act?), the concentration camps are already in place (in guantanamo, iraq, afganistan etc.) as is the use of torture, either in places supposedly closed to the public eye (abu-graib) or by proxys (sending “suspects” to willing tormentors in Egypt and other places). So pray tell, if we exclude the deathcamps what are the differences? The arrogant über-mensch mentality certainly seems to be in place. At least the nazis had the decency not to pretend to be “defending the values of freedom and democracy”.
——————-
Now I have to say it…you are a MORON. I like this statement by you: “if we exclude the deathcamps”.
Heh, how silly you are. We’ll just white-wash the one event in history that is well documented and resulted in the death of 6 million INNOCENT people.
How the heck can you exclude this? Maybe exclude what happened to the 2 million Armenians in Turkey as well?
“Your honor, if you exclude all those murders, the German army were really swell people, much better than those blood thirsty Americans of today.”
You, too, are a bit out of whack. Good luck.
“Your honor, if you exclude all those murders, the German army were really swell people, much better than those blood thirsty Americans of today.”
————————————————–
Let’s see how many genocides did happen in Europe in the last century.
1915-1917 – Armenian Genocide, Turkey (who was Germany’s ally and had Germany’s approval)
1939-1945 – Holocaust, all over Europe.
1995 – Bosnian Genocide.
In the last two cases Americans had to get involved to stop Europeans from murdering each other. In case of Armenia, America didn’t get involved and Turkey successfully murdered all of its Christian population.
The point of this history lesson is this:
Stop comparing America to Nazi Germany, and instead look in the mirror!
I’m afraid you are the moron around here, since you seem to be utterly unable to read and comprehend what I wrote.
1. I’m not talking about death-camps, I’m talking about attitude, laws and society.
2. The nazis were in power for 9 years before the decision about the “Final Soloution” was made, so why shouldn’t the comparison apply? The übermensch mentality, propaganda, agressiveness, international debt, reliance on military power is there. The laws regarding suspected opositionals are frightingly similar (secret evidence, closed courts and death penalty, familiar?) as is the general contempt for human rights. In fact there are more matches than mismatches.
3. If you are too brainwashed by Goebbles^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFox News too see the similarities between nazi-germany and the us of today nothing can help you I’m afraid. I’m not saying you are quite there yet, but you are headed in that direction and the laws needed for it are already made. it’s just a matter of how they are used as things are now.
If you fail to see this, it’s not because the evidence isn’t there, but because you are in denial.
I’m afraid you are the moron around here, since you seem to be utterly unable to read and comprehend what I wrote.
1. I’m not talking about death-camps, I’m talking about attitude, laws and society.
2. The nazis were in power for 9 years before the decision about the “Final Soloution” was made, so why shouldn’t the comparison apply? The übermensch mentality, propaganda, agressiveness, international debt, reliance on military power is there. The laws regarding suspected opositionals are frightingly similar (secret evidence, closed courts and death penalty, familiar?) as is the general contempt for human rights. In fact there are more matches than mismatches.
3. If you are too brainwashed by Goebbles^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFox News too see the similarities between nazi-germany and the us of today nothing can help you I’m afraid. I’m not saying you are quite there yet, but you are headed in that direction and the laws needed for it are already made. it’s just a matter of how they are used as things are now.
If you fail to see this, it’s not because the evidence isn’t there, but because you are in denial.
—————-
You did include the deathcamps when you said to exclude them. I comprehended what you wrote and responded to it based on the fact that I thought your argument which asked to exclude the EVENT was rediculous. You may think I didn’t understand, but this is how it came across to me. Try writing in a more clear style next time.
Reading nonsense by some people here give me an idea on how Bush got elected (well, besides fraud).
There is a beautiful world outside of the cnn screen. I am so glad I met a lot of wonderful people from the USA travelling that had intelligent things to say. Not everyone has a flag and whine that all the world is jalous or hates you. Newsflash: most people in the world don’t even care about you. Whatever cnn says.
C.
Thanks! We’re not all entitled protectionist idiots.
Personally I think the Internet was intended to be beyond any single government’s control.
So I can’t believe what I’m hearing from fellow Americans, bashing the UN. Hello? We created the UN! We brought these countries together to encourage working together to resolve our differences.
Then we claim the Internet is ours and tell others to go make their own? Hello again! What do you think would happen if every country made their own networks and blocked the US from them?
There would be no Internet, it would be the Intranets!
Why do you think the US is so against any form of UN control? Because the UN allows others to have a say instead of organisations such as NATO who all just bend over and let the US do what they want and say yes sir, no sir three bags full sir.
Freedom? more like a dictatorship.
The US created the internet. Yes. But a briton, working for a European organisation created the world wide web. Which sort of makes the internet failrly useful.
Sorry, but time for the US to grow up. The internet is a worldwide entity. So should it’s ‘governing’ body. How I hate nationalism.
Yep yep, there will be the US internet and an internet for the rest of the world. So please go make your own. . I don’t want you using it anyways. It’s ours, we made it, you can go make your own. And yes, I don’t care what you think, y’all are just a bunch of wanna be’s. You have no right to use our internet, it’s your privilege. Not your right. Feel happy that we are so generous. Don’t get me started on the statistics. You can pull up a lot of crap on the US, but I can pull up even more good stuff, (but you’ll still ignore it because you are so frustrated at the US’s success). And this coming from someone who didn’t even grow up in the US.
‘And this coming from someone who didn’t even grow up in the US.’
Yes, but you always find the converts the most bigoted.
>>And this coming from someone who didn’t even grow up in the US.’
>>Yes, but you always find the converts the most bigoted.
Yes, this is because converts DECIDED to convert. They have seen what others have not, and are in a better position to state an opinion based on their experiences.
Does this mean if we give the UN rights to control the internet we lose 95% of spam that actually comes from the US? It’s a known fact that 95% of spam comes from one place in the US.
The first posted comment was right though, US sites, forums dont like anyone but americans telling them they are wrong, especially when it comes to WW2 and history in general. No wonder they are the most hated country on the planet at the moment, I dont hate the US, they just have their head up there arse STILL (even after 9/11)
1. The Internet was invented by the US Armed Forces.
2. There are currently no problems with how the Internet is being run by ICANN.
3. The UN is a piece of sh*t organization and I wish we’d kick them out of the US and withdraw. There is no point to the UN. They are corrupted, and serve zero purpose in this world other than to make little countries feel better about themselves.
You whinny little cry babies need to get over it. The Internet BELONGS to the US. Just because other countries invested their economy so heavily on a foreign infrastructure does NOT give you any right to any partial ownership of it.
If you don’t like it, then create your own Internet. I don’t shop online on websites overseas or outside of the US. I could care less if I couldn’t access some blog that’s hosted over in some third world country.
The Internet belongs to the US. Get over it.
‘I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but your lame Euro ass opened the door.’
Aahh insults, the last resort of the mental cripple.
‘I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but your lame Euro ass opened the door.’
Aahh insults, the last resort of the mental cripple.
—————————–
Out your hairry arse…
–Dan Quayle
(google for mental cripple…quayle is second
Out your hairry arse…
–Dan Quayle
(google for mental cripple…quayle is second
Actually a post about Barbara Boxer came up second in my Google search…
Being from the USA, I think that putting the domain registry into the control of an international body is just a fine idea, presuming that body was prepared for the task. I don’t think the UN is so prepared.
The UN has its upsides and downsides (and for USA “neocons” that naysay it, let us not forgot the UN is a beast of our own creation), it is unquestionably a political bureaucracy fraught with pettiness, corruption, and incompetence (like any such body — the Bush administration is another good example).
It’s not going to do ANYONE (USA or otherwise) any favors to simply toss the job from one cage of baboons to another. We have examples of international unions and congresses that manage things like this (postal systems, even ITU — though it’s had issues) that work, and a number of good proposals for alternatives.
None of our governments want to play ball, but we the people do have an agenda: something that’s fair and works for everyone. If we could get the politicos to swallow their pride and form a union outside the influence of politics and big business (to the extent that’s even possible), we could have our cake and eat it too.
As a pragmatist, however, I think we’re looking at near-term balkanization of the Internet that will result in public and commercial outcry. Ultimately both business and the general public will develop a new structure and business will use government to mandate use of their solution for profit and to screw the consumer on a global scale. Of course, that’s just my take on the subject.
Forgive if I am repeating a point people have already made – there are a lot of posts here and I have only read about a quarter of them. I think throwing in nationalism, whether in the guise of Americanism or the “anti yankee” sentiments that one or two people might be tempted to make is a red herring. The issue is not about the American nation but the American state. If the internet was created or controlled by Britain, my sentiments – as British myself, would the same – that no particular state should have sole control over (forgive me for putting it so crudely) the internet. One can drag out the “its ours we own it” argument if you wish but the matter is, you do not. If the US state had a change of heart tommorow and argued in favour of a UN body, the average American ‘net users influence over events in that direction would be precisely nil. It would be for me if we were talking about Britain instead. So that argument strikes me as a non starter. It is as many have pointed out an international phenemoneon and one too important to be left in the hands of vote mongers, whatever country they happen to be. And may I add that I believe that the current situtaion is no better for American citizens than it is for any other country. But as to the person who argued that the UN wouldn’t necessarily do a better job, I am inclined to agree with you. Its a complex issue and not one solved by chest beating and blustering.
I would suggest that 95% of you need to step back and look at what any change to the authority of DNS names will have on your Internet experience and any benefits it might/might not bring.
Drop your US/Europe/… issues and look at the issue if it was just several companies in your country. 1 has control and the others what in; what is to gain? how is this better?
Hey European pansies — particularly those of you who were pretty much stamped into the dirt by your fellow Europeans when they tried to take over the world a second time in the 1940’s — if you want control of the Internet so badly, why don’t you come over here and take it?
Didn’t think so. Pansies.
You’re never, EVER going to get “control” of the Internet so long as the USA is standing, so keep posting your tired drivel about how “bush bad, america sucks” all you want.
This is why you are the most hated country on the planet, i’ve seen comments like that come thick and fast.
I guess next you’ll be saying you won WW2, after Japan gave you the biggest thrashing in your history on your own ground. learned yet?, no!, 9/11 still not a lesson? because they came over and showed you.
But, you are a bunch of pansies. Your jealousy over the US is rather amazing. That’s why the UN was invented in the first place – so little countries like yours could feel important.
Yes, we did win WWII. We saved all of Europe’s sorry ass in the process. They showed us on 9/11? They showed us what cowards they are by attacking CIVILIANS. Their sorry asses are on the run right now too. If you think terrorism is just something the US has to worry about, then you’re even dumber than I orignally though.
Screw the UN and screw the EU.
It’s kind of funny how ignorant some (not alla of course) US trollers are here… What is the link between Europe and 9/11 ?
i think this was in reply to a Euro weenie who was talking about how pearl harbor and 9/11 were great events becasue the us was “thrashed”
I haven’t read the same thing. He said they were lessons to learn from this event. As far as I can see, that hasn’t been the case.
is it not true? you europeans would kill youselves many times over if it werent for us. thats probably the most promient reason why you shouldnt control anything.
I like the part about 9/11 i really hoping to see paris burn to hell (again) so i can laugh
I like the part about 9/11 i really hoping to see paris burn to hell (again) so i can laugh
—————————–
Dude, not only is this not funny, but it makes no sense. The ony ones laughing will be the weirdo terrorists who think they are getting something for blowing themselves and innocents up.
Basically, quit being ignorant, it’s insulting.
It’s hard enough for us to get along as it is, we don’t need this to upset all those on these forums who get fired up by reading the boards…
Hate to break it to you, but our pacific fleet being the only real threat to Japan’s dedire to expand their empire throughout the pacific was the reason for them bombing Pearl Harbor. Nothing more.
I guess next you’ll be saying you won WW2, after Japan gave you the biggest thrashing in your history on your own ground.
The Japanese launched a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor without having done the courtesy of formally declaring war first, and you glorify such an action?
Besides, one battle does not a war make. While they did put up a fight, Japan was not the victor.
9/11 still not a lesson? because they came over and showed you.
9/11 was a cowardly act. The deliberate targetting of civilians is completely unacceptable regardless of the desired goals.
Don’t even bother, he’s a European. As long as americans die, it’s all good. Don’t point out that we won WW2, let him think Pearl Harbor was the entire war(as you said actually happened before the war formally started, but those are only facts) we can all laugh at him.
as for his comments on 9//1 being a good thing. let’s let that stand on its own too. We’ve always known what side the citizens of the EU are on.
The Japanese launched a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor without having done the courtesy of formally declaring war first, and you glorify such an action?
The truth is Pearl Harbor was allowed and wanted by FDR himself. US miliatary already cracked Hirohito japanese army code for a while. At that time, the USans (I refuse to call them Americans because Canada, Mexico and other are American themselves) were not interested for war. Read the declassified archived to see how Usan President tricked the USA into unecessary war.
9/11 still not a lesson? because they came over and showed you.
Plenty evidences pointed out to the Bush administration itself given oddities such as miracle passport (even though their theories said the steel melted), the fact no people with Middle East origin were on the list of flies, the fact WTC7 got demolished, the fact 911 was planned by PNAC in 1998.
So to Usans people, your own governement deceived you for a long time hence the actual consequence you got.
Truth hurts, doesn’t it?
This is why you are the most hated country on the planet, i’ve seen comments like that come thick and fast.
I guess next you’ll be saying you won WW2, after Japan gave you the biggest thrashing in your history on your own ground. learned yet?, no!, 9/11 still not a lesson? because they came over and showed you.
——————–
You seem proud of this, as if you had some part in it. I’d say it would be great if all foreigners stayed in their friggin country, but do they? Noo…
Look, people come to the US (and other countries, of course) cause they want to. There must be something missing where they were from.
Me, both my parents came from Europe in the early 70’s. I’m 1/2 Greek, and 1/2 German. For as much as all you people who think they know everything hate the USA, I can see why there were 2 world wars in Europe in a short time. So much hate.
Obviously, the opinions being spouted here are not necessarily the views of the entire population of any one place, so stop behaving as if it were. This goes to those that say “this is why americans are hated”, etc.
If you want to hate, then go ahead. It’s dangerous, and not healthy for you.
You don’t know all Americans. Maybe you hate the politicians in the US or some of the people you consider rude, but there are great people in the USA (and your country, too).
I’m glad I’m in the US and I take the bad with the good. It’s never all good. Try to do something constructive to make it better.
Peace, my brothers and sisters (and especially the sisters
Poor discussion, I stopped after the fifth post.
I wish there were a .xxx web for porn. Along with this, I would hope that a web browser was created so that you could password setup the browser so that it could reject all .xxx sites. If this were available, I could rest easier when my kids surf the web.
I do use Safari and have set it up so that my kids can only go to web sites I have allowed but many times they have school projects that require them to surf the web. I once saw one of my kids look up info for ML King and the result list had a porn link in it. There is no eff’n reason for this. Give us a .xxx web and put alll of the porn on it and then let us have a browser that can be setup to reject all .xxx sites.
– Mark
“I wish there were a .xxx web for porn. Along with this, I would hope that a web browser was created so that you could password setup the browser so that it could reject all .xxx sites. If this were available, I could rest easier when my kids surf the web. ”
I agree. This is one part of our (US) objections that started all this mess that I don’t agree with 100%
I can see the arguements against a TLD of .xxx
1. If you don’t enforce (and get compliance) that all porn sites use that TLD, then it’s usefullness for filtering becomes limited from the get go. Many porn site ops are not exactly the most law abiding folks to begin with.
2. If .xxx is allowed, then what’s next? .terror (.ter)
3. If you acknowledge something bad like porn with TLD, then maybe the fear is you lend it more credibility or acceptance. (weak, I admit).
Cuts both ways.
Kind of like the spam issue. Yeah most of it comes from the US, but most of it is routed off foreign servers in countries that have poorly controlled networks and non-responsive to complaints.
Let’s face it, it’s actually a pretty complicated issue when you get right down to it.
For the record I’m all for a international body to control the internet. I just don’t think the UN is the solution on their best day. Frankly the less government involvement in the internet, probably the better…regardless of who the government is.
ICANN/ARIN (and others) are far from perfect, but hey what we’ve got works (for the most part) and we need to be careful in dealing with this issue or we could easily make things worse.
For those fussing about control, every country has their own TLD (.us, .de, .au, so on) you can always subdomain as you wish and your registrar’s will allow. A lot of the problems I hear mentioned have nothing to do with American control of the TLD’s, issues that need to be taken up with other parties.
Who cares about who’s in control, let’s do what’s best for the majority of users and the technology. Far too much of these comments (not yours) are based upon nationalistic egos, hatred, and assumptions about other countries (often incorrect assumptions) versus the technology and layout as it exists today.
JT
Who says porn is bad?
I agree it’s bad from a moral point of view, but legally it’s no worse than training people to use guns to kill terrorists, nor is it worse than selling a buggy OS and forcing hardware sellers to include said OS with it.
I agree it’s bad from a moral point of view, but legally it’s no worse than training people to use guns to kill terrorists, nor is it worse than selling a buggy OS and forcing hardware sellers to include said OS with it
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All OS’s are buggy. I’m assuming you mean the evil American MS OS. Why is it that everyone is hating MS for being successful? I think that is the root of the problem, that most of us like underdogs and hate the top dog. Hey, listen up, go make your own company and do what you like. Nobody forces you to buy a Dell with WIndows installed. Get one of them thar Chineze pc’s with red blood linux or tiennamen square linux or whatever if you think that is better. Plenty of choices. Vote with your pocketbook and not your flapper.
You sir, are why the web can’t have governmental control. You would sacrifice freedom, of everyone, for the safety, of your children.
Everyone please read what he’s saying. Read between the lines, what it actually means: The Government should restrict all pornographic material to .xxx. Sounds nice huh? You try and decide what’s pornographic and what’s not? You try and actually find non-.xxx sites with porn. And here’s the tough one, you set the punishment for not following the rules for freedom of speech.
I’ll tell you, the punishment for speaking in a restricted zone without the proper paperwork is a slap on the wrist (as it should be). If you use that sort of punishment on porn sites, you won’t even slow them down; you’ll simply provide them free advertising on the 10:00 news.
The main point is… why? Is there something wrong with the current system other than other countries have to remember the US is still around?
The only reason to hand this to the UN would be so they can vote to kick us out. There really is no practical reason It’s just a power play by the UN. End of story.
>Nowhere. Just pointing out the condition of their >network infrastructor. Guess that’s the fault of USA?
>Resort to name calling, you instantly loose the >arguement and credibility.
What argument? The simple fact that only about 30% of the www is in english?
There is a world outside the US.
And really, the world won’t miss the “US internet” if there is ( and I hope ) a split.
right and WWW != internet. there is a lot more to the internet than web pages. (go read a book)
What argument? The simple fact that only about 30% of the www is in english?
There is a world outside the US.
And really, the world won’t miss the “US internet” if there is ( and I hope ) a split.
——————————-
Clearly, you already know what the ramifications would be due to a “split”, and you have decided it will be to your favor. Can you also guess for me the lotto numbers?
You seem to be somewhat unstable, my friend.
As an American, I am depressed by what some of my fellow Americans have to say.
We live in a small world these days, and globalization is making it smaller by the day. The time has come for us to stop being the schoolyard bully and step up to the plate as a real world leader; that is, by leading, by building consensus and compromise, by working with all nations to recognize their importance in the overall global village in which we live.
All of this stuff about what was invented where or by whom is irrelevant. We need to look at the situation as it exists now.
I am not suggesting the UN is proper place for this matter. One look at the headlines shows you that the UN is just as broken as our current administration is. However, I do think that an international technical body of some sort should be created to manage this matter.
To my fellow Americans: stop coming across as arrogant bastards. We have things to learn from our fellow human beings around the world. The world does not revolve around the US. We are not perfect and we are not always right.
To other folks: America is not all bad. We have done and continue to do good things in this world. We really do try to do the right thing most of the time. We are not always wrong.
Charles
“It is a current traffic engineering Pending Patent written by 3 Canadians of which I am one of them” It is facing Oposition by the usa and the BIG TELCOS since it will effectivelly ruin them all allowing anyone with routing skills to add themselves to all MPLS communities or specific ones over a simple Layer 2
Why don’t you patent it in your own country and charge us money if we apply to use it. On this issue of the internet we don’t want your friendship, we don’t want your co-operation and don’t force it on us. Form you own web and keep us out and stop whining.
3 trillion in debt !!! you cant afford it and the us dollar will have to be converted to the new international currency the euro (heck pretty soon the mexican peso will do better)
Our frienship is wellcome and valued all over the world
our cooperation is wellcome and in high demand all over the world
We are well regarded and liked all over the world
we dont care nor need your internet
we dont force nothing upon no-one we are free and peacefull and have a policy of non-interference respect , and non dominance in the affairs of other nations and that is the essence of our Nation being wellcome and well regarded all over the world.
can you say the same for yours?
You are a moroon
cheers
I remeber a similar situation with the GPS satalites.
The ESA (Europien Space agency) wanted to launch thier own higher resoultion GSP system not so long agao as the US one is intenetionaly poor resolution (accuracy) for publc use. (I also beleve they were turning it off and on and changing the resolution at one time) the US did all they could to block this and remain in control of a system that is relied on by billions every day instead of letting the ESA launch a better system that was not owned by one group.
I was thinking about the same project. Now It is launched, is called GALILEO and it will be nice !
no they were trying to use a signal on the same frequency so the US could not jam it woutout jamming GPS. That’s a pretty hostile intent right there.
“no they were trying to use a signal on the same frequency so the US could not jam it woutout jamming GPS. That’s a pretty hostile intent right there.”
My friend you have a very odd view on hostility. You can’t shoot me without shooting yourself, and that makes *me* hostile?
I remeber a similar situation with the GPS satalites.
The ESA (Europien Space agency) wanted to launch thier own higher resoultion GSP system not so long agao as the US one is intenetionaly poor resolution (accuracy) for publc use. (I also beleve they were turning it off and on and changing the resolution at one time) the US did all they could to block this and remain in control of a system that is relied on by billions every day instead of letting the ESA launch a better system that was not owned by one group.
Luckily the European equiv. to GPS is in the works, it hasn’t been canceled.
Sponsored by China, can’t wait for China to drop “China GPS equivalent guided bombs” on you for not outsourcing fast enough.
Sponsored by China, can’t wait for China to drop “China GPS equivalent guided bombs” on you for not outsourcing fast enough.
Quit crying paranoic yankee… not everyone wants to bomb your precious land. The fact that you mess with the wrong people make you a nice target. Stop building V12 Engines with four wheel traction just to go to/from the office, therefore, consuming less petrol/fuel, so your -already low- reserves don’t fall short; that way, you won’t have to invade a Petroleum Rich country every so and there “for the fake of freedom”.
If you are SO afraid of the rest of the world, go somewhere else. In the end, we came to this world before. You see? Both parties happy. You could use Mars. The flag colour will even match with the land.
The US of Mars. Lovely. We’ll spare some of the earth air, don’t worry. But get your Unix engineers, creators of Internet to build a “Terrarformer” quick, or you’ll run out of resources pretty fast.
We can use a Fast T3 Link to connect US of Mars with Earth. Not the best but… oh and take the GPS network with you, you may need it in the new world, since there aren’t many maps, you know.
Yes, keep the U.N out of it, they mess way to much up and they aren’t the world power that everyone has to bow down too.
Next the U.N will want to issue us the 666 to buy and sell.
Someone? ANyone?why does it need to be changed,not one argument here as to WHY it should be changed.
From an “Arrogant American” lol
There’s one simple reason they are wanting to change:
MONEY
The corrupted nations in the UN and in the EU want to start levying tax on the internet (email, etc..). That is why they are wanting to change it.
Because USA is abusing it’s control as could be seen from the .xxx story.
So you have one incident,and you think that makes a pattern of abuse? LOL
Suggestions that have been made include new mandates for “consumer protection,” the power to levy taxes on domain names to pay for “universal access,” and folding ICANN into the International Telecommunications Union, a U.N. agency. As far back as 1999, U.N. agencies have mulled imposing taxes on Internet e-mail.
The only reason they want control…to tax people more.
what nobody has really answered is ‘What is wrong with the way the internet is currently run’? The whole idea of the internet being a “world resource” creates great sound bites and quotes in local papers but in reality means, well, nothing. Oil is a “world resource” too. Why aren’t all these countries getting their panties in a bunch over the fact that they have no control of oil? I could see if the US was denying countries access or whatever, but they are not. This is a power grab pure and simple. If China has a say, do you not think they are going to censor info they don’t agree with? Then you will all be bitching about China censoring the internet. Or Iran, or North Korea. Hell, North Korea doesn’t even allow it’s citizens access to the internet. This is all about money (UN) and censorship (look at the countries leading the charge) If and when the US begins to undermine other countries by means of holding the internet ‘hostage’, then I think someone needs to intervene. Until then, I am happy with things just the way they are. just my 2 cents
Go back 20 years. When President Reagan wanted to put Pershing missiles in West Germany, spineless European elites like the ones posting on this site raised hell and called Reagan a dumb cowboy.They wanted “co-operation” with their beloved Soviet Union and refused to buy any arguments that the Soviets only understood the language of power. I wonder who won that argument.The internet was an American invention. To hell with your “co-operation”. Build your own system and keep the Americans out if you must.
And by the way I am African.
enough said…
The idea that the US has the right to control the internet because it’s theirs is plain short sighted.
The internet is nothing more than a collection of interconnected networks standardized on a common protocol. Saying the US owns it or should control it is saying the samething as the US should own and control my homenetwork wich is, after all, a part of the internet.
True, DARPA started it all. Then Universities across the globe connected their networks to the DARPA network, thus extending it. The DNS facilities were controled and managed by the US, but not the networks connected. Here in the Netherlands for example there is SURFnet for the universities. It’s part of the internet and funded by the dutch not the US. What if they wanted a new top level domain for their network and the US didn’t like it.
Right now it can’t happen, why not? Because SURFnet could set up their own DNS root servers, but that would make their network a seperate one from the internet. Over time more parties could join them using their DNS servers because they like their conditions better. We could end up with two internets, which would need gateways to communicate. This is in nobody’s interest.
To prevent this from happening control of the root servers could be relinquished to an international organization. Which can take care of international needs instead of US sensitivities. This would cost the US nothing, if anything it would save money, because they’re no longer maintaining all the root DNS servers.
Now please do not give control to the UN they are a bunch of bureaucratic money wasters. Even worse they’re about the most indecisive bunch of bureaucrats around. They are the kind people who decide we should stop a genocide after everyone is already dead, beacuase they can’t agree on the wording.
What ever orginasation controles te internet needs a democratic system without veto’s. The only veto should be the example above of starting your own network. This will ensure that only the gravest concerns and mismanagement makes the internet split.
that is that the US supporters have been saying here. You have the “veto ” of starting your own network, go use it.
“that is that the US supporters have been saying here. You have the “veto ” of starting your own network, go use it.”
My point against it? It would be inconvenient, to say the least. A duplication of efforts. And if there is a big split, commercial intersts will make sure that after a while the networks merge effectively establishing international control. Would you like that? I don’t, I dislike that as much as the US telling me what is proper and what not.
“What ever orginasation controles te internet needs a democratic system without veto’s. The only veto should be the example above of starting your own network. This will ensure that only the gravest concerns and mismanagement makes the internet split.”
Aside from the *.xxx” issue, sounds like you are describing the current management.
I think the whole UN-US issue comes across as a power grab. Who is really driving this issue? The free world? Or coutries such as China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Senegal and many other African countries?
Live free or die!
“Aside from the *.xxx” issue, sounds like you are describing the current management.”
In a way I am, but right now the “governing body” caters only for US interests on an international medium. The whole internet is subject to the whims of the current US administration. Even americans know this, as the comment was already made to wait for the next president, by an american.
If some international organization “governs” it would cater for the needs of the international community. Which as a whole is a lot more stable then the US political climate. That’s the disadvantage of essentially a two party system.
This may mean that the US doesn’t get what it wants all the time. Like to use a popular example here the .xxx toplevel thrown out. But that’s current US politics imposed on the world. Which is what sets me off. I couldn’t care less about those idiot countries. Perhaps something like the US first amendment should be incorporated in a new controling body. Not in my opinion an unfair requirement if the US were to demand this in exchange for relinquishing control.
Anyway the issue remains that Europe has to much interest in the internet to not have influence and a say in how its run. no matter if you Yanks and Rednecks like it or not.
If some international organization “governs” it would cater for the needs of the international community. Which as a whole is a lot more stable then the US political climate. That’s the disadvantage of essentially a two party system.
—————
Debatable. I’m not so convinced that the “international community” is more stable as a whole than the US political climate. It’s had power changes without violent outbreaks for quite a long time. Outside from people saying the elections were “stolen” or whatever the last 2 times (garbage, of course), it’s worked very well for 200 years or so. Not too bad, eh?
If the EU can pass a law, that requires ISPs inside the EU to set their ROOT-Servers to alternative root-servers, what will the US government be doing about it?
nothing. That is what we are telling you Euro weenies to do. If you dont like the net as it is now, dont bug us or try to take ours away, go start your own.
Root-Servers dont*t make a new net, especially if they are synced with ICANN for now.
we are talking about root servers and IPs here.
Why *start* our own? Almost every country has their own nets which are just linked together. The US is just one of these many countries with just one of these many nets. Yet it want’s to control ALL countries nets by requiring to follow its rules if they want to stay connected to the US net. The only way to show how this is wrong is to disconnect the USA from the global internet and give control over the global internet to the UN. It won’t take long until the US begs to be reconnected to the global internet.
I never knew there were so many moronic self hating americans… I already knew everyone else hated America all the jealousy, misconceptions, and rumors do that to people
Anyways why exactly does ANYONE in there right mind wand to give the UN control of the internet? I mean why don’t we just put China, Iran, syria, NK, lybia, cuba, and russia in charge of the worlds new and information since theydo so well with it at home. You people are f–king stupid. Should the US have controlof the internet? no. Should the UN have control? HELL NO Should we create a new body with out nations the limit speech and expression? Yes. Does the US limit said things? Sadly for you american haters… No. Don’t us .xxx and a excuse to be led hand and foo tby China and there dicator buddies.
In 3 years we will have a new president and it will all be different. Which is more then I can say for the most of the nations who want the UN in control. I wonder what all the bush haters will do then.
Anyone who wants to do as China wants is a fool. I mean this entire conversation is probally illegal in china.
tell me would this new body have the type of 1st ammendment protections in place like the US has? people here keep saying international body of democratic nations, but fail to realize that many democratic nations are not free. For example, go to paris france and wear a shirt with a swatstik (regardless of context) and see what happens (you go to jail accused of being a Nazi). Now do the same thing in DC and watch everyone ignore or laugh at you.
True but I wasn’t really thinking about that. I think the US should retain control of the existing .com .net .org .mil and .gov and let the rest of the world play with the rest. To much american money and time has gone into those to let them be shut down or stolen because of some silly dispute else where in the world. Yahoo and Ebay would probally lose there domains since they don’t bow to certain places demands.
“tell me would this new body have the type of 1st ammendment protections in place like the US has? people here keep saying international body of democratic nations, but fail to realize that many democratic nations are not free. For example, go to paris france and wear a shirt with a swatstik (regardless of context) and see what happens (you go to jail accused of being a Nazi). Now do the same thing in DC and watch everyone ignore or laugh at you”
Walk around in DC wearing a “Bush is a terrorist” -shirt, get abducted by FBI-agents enforcing Patriot Act, disappear and no-one will ever hear from you again. So much for your freedom and democracy.
“Walk around in DC wearing a “Bush is a terrorist” -shirt, get abducted by FBI-agents enforcing Patriot Act, disappear and no-one will ever hear from you again. So much for your freedom and democracy”
I hate to break it to you but wearing that tshirt is totally legal.
That shirt is less likely to land you in Gitmo than in a hospital. At least if you live in the Midwest like I do. There is very little direct censorship in America, but tons and tons of “if you do … then me and all my friends will … (boycott you, beat the hell out of you, stop talking to you…)”
To be honest, I don’t have a big problem with the anti-nazi laws in Europe. It is anti-free speech, but free speech should have its limits when there isn’t any purpose to it. Celebrating what everyone agrees was a horrible tragedy doesn’t serve any purpose except to piss people off.
And for Americans saying its a sign of how you can’t trust free speech with Europeans, I tell you to think about all the talk there is about a constitutional ammendment banning flag burning. That has more purpose to it than celebrating Hitler does. (Not that I agree with it, either).
“HELL NO Should we create a new body with out nations the limit speech and expression? Yes. Does the US limit said things? Sadly for you american haters… No. Don’t us .xxx and a excuse to be led hand and foo tby China and there dicator buddies. ”
Forget the fact that the USA is the country that even limits the words you can use on television. Even if you hear them in the wild all the time. Forget that there are major forces in the US that want to limit speech about evolution, euthenasia you name it. And that in some states these kind of people have already been succesfull. Combine this with the fact that the US has no problem arresting someone for something they did in russia where it was legal when he comes to the US where it is illegal and I think you have a very good reason to question the USA and its governments intents. Of course all the counries you mention are pretty much clear on their intent and if they persist the split would come between them and the rest of the world. Which is a lot less disruptive for your (US) and our (Europe) economies then any other alternative. In the end US control over a communications medium that is vital to all western countries economies won’t stand.
Certain words should be said on TV thats not censorship or a violation of free speech.
Yeah the religious nuts jobs… though that not much different from the rest of the world every nation has there taboos such as France and nazis as someone pointed out.
US law at all time applies to US citizens and legal aliens as it always has. Just because you left the nation to go rape a 10 year old in asia doesn’t mean you should be given a free pass when you get back because it was outside the US.
Hey now I’m not infavor of keeping the EU out of it even if I find the EU broken in design with that lovely council that does what they are paid to do.
“Certain words should be said on TV thats not censorship or a violation of free speech.”
What happens on US television may not be violation of free spech, since you should be able to make any point without those words. But it is censorship and limits free expression. This though to me is not a major thing, it’s just americans being silly and pretending that this actually means anything in real life.
“Yeah the religious nuts jobs… though that not much different from the rest of the world every nation has there taboos such as France and nazis as someone pointed out.”
And as such, with each country having it’s own nut jobs, international control is a good way to keep them out.
“US law at all time applies to US citizens and legal aliens as it always has. Just because you left the nation to go rape a 10 year old in asia doesn’t mean you should be given a free pass when you get back because it was outside the US.”
Dimitri Skylarov was not a US citizen, did not break any laws, but the US decide to prosecute non the less. Another example, a Dutch citizen sells drugs to an American Citizen who brings it to the US. I am ashamed of my own government for delivering him into the hands of the US. He broke dutch laws, not US laws, unless you think you can dictate what we can do in our own country. He should be prosecuted in The Netherlands for his crimes under Dutch law.
You try to win points by pointing at something appalling. But yes the US should let him go free. If a sovereign nation decides that rape should be legal it is not America’s place to punish their citizens if they visit the US. Now if it is an American, the US could make it illegal in the US to go to this country to rape. By going to this country and doing this he can be punished under US law, for doing this.
“Hey now I’m not infavor of keeping the EU out of it even if I find the EU broken in design with that lovely council that does what they are paid to do.”
Welcome to the club. We don’t trust them either, thats why we the dutch kicked out that phony constitution. I don’t think the American system works, but the EU is even worse in some cases. Why? Because you can elect a different government to undo the damage, in the EU it’s most of the times not even elected officials that make the decissions. You can’t vote them out!
“Dimitri Skylarov was not a US citizen, did not break any laws, but the US decide to prosecute non the less. Another example, a Dutch citizen sells drugs to an American Citizen who brings it to the US. I am ashamed of my own government for delivering him into the hands of the US. He broke dutch laws, not US laws, unless you think you can dictate what we can do in our own country. He should be prosecuted in The Netherlands for his crimes under Dutch law.”
considering that the EU nations have universal jurisdiction laws, that is incredibly hypocritical. For example if I did something in the US that is illegal in Belgium, they can grab me in another country and take me to Belgium to be tried.
“considering that the EU nations have universal jurisdiction laws, that is incredibly hypocritical. For example if I did something in the US that is illegal in Belgium, they can grab me in another country and take me to Belgium to be tried.”
Last I checked Belgium itself wasn’t too happy with that law. And if my comments tell you anything, it is that I am against those laws as well.
And the universal jurisdiction in the EU is something the governments agreed upon. Not something each diceded for himself to apply. And again, I am what people call overhere a eurosceptic. So don’t tell me whats wrong with the EU, I know and will probably just agree with you.
Its called an extradition treaty. If we don’t like things in the US, we write our congressman, and if doesn’t respond favorably, you vote for someone else. I suggest you do the equivalent in Belgium, and stay on topic.
At the risk of angering you for being off-topic. Extradition treaty are for criminals who fled the country where they commited their crime to be delivered to the proper authorities in that country upon capture. Not for someone who abides by the laws of his country or not to be sent of to some country he’s never been because they don’t like what he did. He wasn’t there so he shouldn’t be able to be prosecuted there.
Why did this come up. It was one example of why many europeans have problems with the US. Which is one reason to worry about US control of an important international communications medium. The current US gevernment cares for noone but itself (frankly I doubt Dubya cares about Americans in general, unless he has something to gain himself), why should we entrust something vital to us to them?
err, you have your facts backwards. We dislike the EU becasue of things like belguim’s univeral jurisdiction laws. For example, if you did something in your country that is illegal in Belgium you WILL be arrested for it if charges are brought agianst you there.
also do youreally believe the UN or the EC care about anyone?
that is actually good if it involves child abuse, rape and murder, I have no problem with it
Not really, it only concerns genocide and deportation.
ah, so the EU can try other people but it is wrong for the US to do anything like that? for example what is called rape and murder in the west is legal in someplaces. Mercy killings in some places, honor killigs in muslim countries are examples of murder that are legal elsewhere. Abortion can be considerd murder and child abuse! why does belgium get to have the final say ? who are they todo that.
do you see how you youself are hypocritical.
You’re kind of funny, after all. Your ignorance is so vast ! Please try to dig a bit further…
you seem to be replying to the wrong person.
You’re saying that you are against a fully democractic country, which has the support of a bunch of democratic countries (all EU + most of South American Countries, etc…) judging someone from another country for genocide/deportation. The funny thing is that USA alone making war and arresting Sadam Hussein doesn’t get into your mind. Ho right, he’s not judged by US judge, but by people chosen by them, big differences…
actually, if you watched the news you will see the judges were all judges before saddam and even while saddam was president.
sorry you lose again.
Where did I say the contrary ? Still not able to read…
” he’s not judged by US judge, but by people chosen by them, big differences.”
when in reality the Americans didnt choose the judge and didnt appoint him.
you lose once more euro weenie.
Euhm… I see this is a thread between you 2 guys
. Anyway I was just wondering since you seem to know a lot about the Irac war. Well… I know Saddam was no saint, but I was always wondering. Countries that invade other countries without good reason are normally placed in embargo… Is it just me or don’t I see this happen to America :S…
Anyway, Americans seem to thrive on the successes and forget the bad sides. I am sure you can defend much things in America, but I am also sure that you can’t defend everything.
The biggest hurdle I have to understand Americans is mostly the intelligence… Once I thought differences could not be much with other countries, but the more I hear and see the more I have difficulties believing in the intelligence of Americans… (and no I am not talking science-intelligence).
Kloot
Important countries are never embargoed, because it would hurt the other countries just as much.
Americans are quite intelligent, we have just developed the ability to hear what we want to hear. These days you can get just about any kind of information, but no one wants to hear about being responsible for anything bad. So we choose to only listen to things that make us sound good. And once you start hearing things thousands of times you start to believe them, so anything to the contrary must be wrong. Not only that, it’s hurtful, which means that whoever is telling it must be trying to hurt us on purpose. Which means that they must stand against everything good that we stand for, which ……………..
Wow, I am particularly pleased by the speed and intelligence of the response
. This is the most interactive way I have ever seen this work 
.
Well, the only thought I still had was that well… I understand that differences are still not that big, only that all sides have ways to irritate eachother and the world is still not perfect.
Anyway I am now thinking about the difference between Belgium and America. For example, here you can pay up to 53% taxes, but the social security is a lot broader. This means we believe that no normal person can die in the streets here unless it is almost a choice (this is putting it black and white!). Well, all of the good things we provide for everybody still don’t make everybody happier all the time. It seems that suicide rates are pretty high over here, and I can understand it very well as our lives are complicated in completely different ways. Well this is not the perfect place to start an endless discussion about it, but I wanted to give something back in the discussion
.
Sleep tight (midnight here),
kloot
Speak for yourself many many people are ignorant of the facts about the United States and alot of the negativity towards America feeds off this. No country is perfect for sure and America has made its share mistakes..this is a given but on the whole i firmly believe the world is a better place becasue of America’s actions around the world. Please don’t make generalzations about us as you wallow in your American self hatred.
Well if you firmly believe the world is a better place because of America’s actions, then surely I hope you also feel the same about Europe…
I have seen strange thoughts about Europe in this thread too, and I think Europe also plays an important role in a lot of conflicts, we just play on a different level… I believe both are complementary, and to be honest, I am happy America is the severe one so it gets all the (bad) attention.
Kloot
Well if you firmly believe the world is a better place because of America’s actions, then surely I hope you also feel the same about Europe…
I most certainly do.
I have seen strange thoughts about Europe in this thread too, and I think Europe also plays an important role in a lot of conflicts, we just play on a different level… I believe both are complementary, and to be honest, I am happy America is the severe one so it gets all the (bad) attention.
Some European countries you bet. Even though most of the English populace generally despises Americans they have been an indispensable ally to the U.S. as an equal partner fighting for a shared value system. Some EU countries have just stayed out of it a respectable quality. Others cut and run when the going got tough cowards bah! acceptable. Still others actively sought to poison our efforts. I sure do which you luck on your European Union idea but I don’t see that it will ever come to fruition.
The EU is a “miserable failure”, its grown too big and has too much to say. It was a lot better when it was still the EEC. A lot of the economic stuf is ok, but what the heck, now they want to dictate what culture is? In the proposed constitution Culture becomes the responsibility of the EU. What do the italians have to do with dutch culture? Nothing, so why have them have a say?
The EU is not the organzation to have control of the internet either, nor is the UN. Like I said before, some other independent international organization, with representatives from both politics and business would do. As long as noone gets a veto!!! Look at whats wrong with the UN. A couple of country who will most likely disagree on everything all have a veto and they use it. This way you get nothing done.
“The EU is a “miserable failure”, its grown too big and has too much to say.”
It is a failure because it has too much to say and you don’t like it. I always suspected that.
“In the proposed constitution Culture becomes the responsibility of the EU. What do the italians have to do with dutch culture? Nothing, so why have them have a say?”
Much more than you can ever imagine. If you had a clue, if you had ever lived in Europe you wouldn’t talk such nonsense.
The only “partly outsiders” are the UK. That is why they can never make up their mind if they want to be fully part of Europe or if they want to be the poodles of the US. The British population is divided almost exactly in half when it comes to their loyalties. But I believe things are changing.
Why did this come up. It was one example of why many europeans have problems with the US. Which is one reason to worry about US control of an important international communications medium. The current US gevernment cares for noone but itself (frankly I doubt Dubya cares about Americans in general, unless he has something to gain himself), why should we entrust something vital to us to them?
—————————
I guess it really does not matter that you don’t trust the US. Europeans should worry about real problems, like making sure no more dictators cause trouble like back in the 30’s and 40’s. What a wast of flesh that was.
err where do you get your news from? you can say anything and show anything on TV here. It is more a matter of when and where (watch HBO or cable in general). Show me a country that protects free speech like the US. show me something you can say in france that you cant sayin the US (short of a threat to kill someone). I have many examples of the opposite.
China, Iran, syria, NK, lybia
That’s all you’ve got ? Do you know how many countries are in the UN ? Do you know any other way to give a supranational power aver the Internet ? I don’t see why UN would not be the perfect place, but personnality, I have nothing against a balanced team, as long as it is fair to anyone.
Don’t us .xxx
It’s just too easy to just dismiss the latest intervention of the US government. We just had the proof that it is not working correctly right now.
But US people replying to this thread are just not trying to understand what others have to say. Internet is an international invention, combining the work of many people around the world. What’s more, Web content is fully international, mainly due to its origin (a combination of international networks). There is a need to have an Internet not threatened by national politics, and as such, there is a need of supranational dominance.
Then, why is it so hard to understand ?
If we put the UN incharge of the internet do you know what will happen? Nothing. One nation or another will veto any idea or change. It’s a moronic suggestion in it’s purest form. You have a place where 1 veto kill anything dead and you want to put the internet in it’s hand? Hello? Get a clue. Everytime China tries to do something it will get vetoed by the US and the UK cause till probally involve censorship and other lovely things the reverse is also true. We don’t want the internet to be another UN play toy to help nations get there way in unrealted feilds.
You don’t understand one thing. Passing charge to the UN doesn’t mean that any decision has to pass through all the process. If you knew better UN, you would know that they are open to the fact that they can create commission with regular way of working (which means no veto or that sort of thing). Anyway, it’s kind of stupid since the country which veto quite everything is US, and then, they blame nations which almost never use this way. They just need to understand that different nations have different objectives. My country has a law against “incitation à la violence”, which means that promoting violence or racism is prohibited. The big difference is that it is perfectly accepted by anyone here and it is barely used by officials.
A website promoting the murder of arabs have been closed six months ago, and I do understand why
The reason gps wasn’t as accurate is so “bad guys” could use it to blow up things.
AFAIK it is more accurate now becasue the “jamming” is gone.
Go ahead and make your own gps the way you want it to, no one is stoping you, but the problem is solved.
The internet was invented, fostered, maintained, and managed by the U.S. since it’s inception and other countries and especially the UN have no business trying to take over something they have no investement in. Secondly, would you trust an organization so corrupt and defunct as the UN to manage your internet access? An organization that puts dictators who have killed thousands on committees for human rights and world hunger! What a friggin joke. Just the fact that the UN even mentions that they would like to impose taxes on internet usage of any kind should send chills down the spine of anyone with half a brain. The bottom line the internet domain is the United States domain and no one elses take a leap off the nearest cliff you bunch of UN dipsh*ts.
First, I’m American. Second, it makes no difference who invented which part of the internet. It is now, and has been for over 20 years, an internation phenomenon. Worldwide, we all share in its use, so we should all share in its governance. It’s that simple.
And a note to my over-patriotic countrymen who use terms like ‘euro-weenies’: keep your friggin’ pie holes shut before the rest of the world thinks all Americans are as ignorant as you are!
its not a matter of who invented it, it is a matter of who paid for it and pays for it now. if you bought a new house and were kind enough to let others live in it for free, does that give then the right to demand control over the house?
The last time I checked, use of the Internet was free, apart from having to pay your ISP for a subscription. So if you wanna know who pays for the Internet, we all do.
right and who maintains the DNS and assigns IPs.
That’s what this debate is all about. But since we have DNS registration happening by companies all over the world, then it makes sense to put governance in the hands of an international body.
Heres some of my little things about this issue.
Frist off maybe we Candians should take back hockey or control it so that way you americans cant see the puck. Since you have to use a blue streak to show where it is all time. And control how badly alot of the americans hockey teams are and get paid a lot for there bad playing.
And if it wasnt for us Canadians coming and cleaning up
after your wars. And putting up with your crying to us and britan to help you out all the time. We would be in a better place.
And Lastly the only true war americans lost was against Candians, since we just walked over the border and set there white house on fire
http://www.multied.com/1812/Index.html
And if it wasnt for us Canadians coming and cleaning up
after your wars. And putting up with your crying to us and britan to help you out all the time. We would be in a better place”
WTF? care to explain that bit? canada has a military? it is a military power? huh?
“And Lastly the only true war americans lost was against Candians, since we just walked over the border and set there white house on fire
”
July 1, 1869 – Canadian Independance granted by the British
August 1814 – Burning of the Capitol, White House, other Gov. buildings.
It doesn’t take a history major to determine that the Canadians did not burn down the White House. Further, the war of 1812 was a stalemate. The definition of “losing a war” implies a surrender.
I consider americans brothers to Canadians and the brits. I’m dissapointed in all the ignorant comments from all sides.
I think most people from free democratic countries can agree that the Root DNS servers should not be in the hands of the UN, and they should not be controlled by the US alone. We are not talking about the entire Internet, but rather the DNS aspect.
Heres some of my little things about this issue.
Frist off maybe we Candians should take back hockey or control it so that way you americans cant see the puck. Since you have to use a blue streak to show where it is all time. And control how badly alot of the americans hockey teams are and get paid a lot for there bad playing.
And if it wasnt for us Canadians coming and cleaning up
after your wars. And putting up with your crying to us and britan to help you out all the time. We would be in a better place.
And Lastly the only true war americans lost was against Candians, since we just walked over the border and set there white house on fire
http://www.multied.com/1812/Index.html
————————
Yeah, tell your stupid hockey teams to quit moving to the USA! (Quebec Nordiques, for example…hello Avalance!)
See what you can do about that, sizzle chest:)
And Lastly the only true war americans lost was against Candians, since we just walked over the border and set there white house on fire
First let me state I as a US citizen am having a blast responding to some of these anti-American comments I love a good debate. To the person who wrote this comment I’ll assume your Canadian oh and by the way I hold dual citizenship with Canada. Allrigth Canada was not a nation in 1812 learn your own history.
The British North America Acts 1867–1975 are a series of Acts of the British Parliament dealing with the government of Canada. The first and most important Act of the series, the British North America Act, 1867 (now the Constitution Act, 1867), was passed in 1867, and created the self-governing dominion of Canada.
Canada and the other British dominions achieved full legislative sovereignty with the passage of the Statute of Westminster 1931, but prior to the Canada Act 1982 the British North America Acts were excluded from the operation of the Statute of Westminster and could only be amended by the British Parliament.
Basically you were British/French citizens during the war of 1812.
Also the US didn’t lose the war it ended with British agreements to stop the impressment of US citizens into the British navy. While yes a main goal was the taking of the land called Canada the large goal was securing freedom for US sailors to avoid impressment.
But, you are a bunch of pansies. Your jealousy over the US is rather amazing. That’s why the UN was invented in the first place – so little countries like yours could feel important.
Yes, we did win WWII. We saved all of Europe’s sorry ass in the process. They showed us on 9/11? They showed us what cowards they are by attacking CIVILIANS. Their sorry asses are on the run right now too. If you think terrorism is just something the US has to worry about, then you’re even dumber than I orignally though.
Screw the UN and screw the EU.
As an American, I am depressed by what some of my fellow Americans have to say.
We live in a small world these days, and globalization is making it smaller by the day. The time has come for us to stop being the schoolyard bully and step up to the plate as a real world leader; that is, by leading, by building consensus and compromise, by working with all nations to recognize their importance in the overall global village in which we live.
All of this stuff about what was invented where or by whom is irrelevant. We need to look at the situation as it exists now.
I am not suggesting the UN is proper place for this matter. One look at the headlines shows you that the UN is just as broken as our current administration is. However, I do think that an international technical body of some sort should be created to manage this matter.
To my fellow Americans: stop coming across as arrogant bastards. We have things to learn from our fellow human beings around the world. The world does not revolve around the US. We are not perfect and we are not always right.
To other folks: America is not all bad. We have done and continue to do good things in this world. We really do try to do the right thing most of the time. We are not always wrong.
Charles
Always good to see there actually are some reasonable Americans.
If it ain’t broke….. Don’t fix it.
I’ve heard everything now
There was an American earlier making a claim on the English Language
Jesus H Wept! What the Hell do they actually teach you lot over there!
I’ve heard some dumb things but boy that takes some beating
that was a troll. funny how you euro weenies can post something that is that you know is false and then claim it to be true.
you Americans think you’re so f–kin’ smart, when actually you are like donkeys, you can only see whats in front of your eyes, and forget whats around you.. maybe if you turn the TV off, you will be able to think for yourselves.
you may have invented the Internet.. but that doesn’t mean you have the right to define the standards in everything thats is part of it.
its like ford now deciding to define the air conditioning (in cars) standards..
so bush doesn’t like .xxx, well too bad for him! .xxx domains are used in http protocol, and hypertext sharing between networks its part of the world wide web, and that my friends, its an European invention (Tim Berners-Lee, CERN 1989)!
so you see, the Internet only became world widely known and easy to use, after the Europeans played with it.
want to know another interesting thing? the Internet was based on the work of Louis Pouzin (thats a french guy!) and taken to the US by Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn.
check the wikipedi for any of those things.
so shut the f–k up, and stop trying to rule the world!
so you see, the Internet only became world widely known and easy to use, after the Europeans played with it.
want to know another interesting thing? the Internet was based on the work of Louis Pouzin (thats a french guy!) and taken to the US by Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn.
check the wikipedi for any of those things.
so shut the f–k up, and stop trying to rule the world!
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You euro’s should mind your own house and make sure the likes of Hitler and Muzzolini don’t return.
Who’s trying to rule the world?
DUmbass…
all i was saying about us Candians help cleaning up your mess is that it seems like every time you start something he have to get our peace keeping buts over there so that way that country doesnt retaliate due to americans bad thinking. And you guys go back home and leave everything in ruins. Yes we have a milatary but it it isnt the best in the world. We dont put millions of dollars into weapons and such. We give that money back to the people.
care to provide some examples to back that up.
all i was saying about us Candians help cleaning up your mess is that it seems like every time you start something he have to get our peace keeping buts over there so that way that country doesnt retaliate due to americans bad thinking. And you guys go back home and leave everything in ruins. Yes we have a milatary but it it isnt the best in the world. We dont put millions of dollars into weapons and such. We give that money back to the people.
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Sorry to have inconvenienced you canuck!
Yeah, wouldn’t it be nice if the US could stop wasting money on other countries and the military? Sounds good to me. Someone else can come in and wipe your asses all over the place like has happened in the past.
OK, everyone, new rules…everyone stay in their own country because we no longer have a milatary to do anyting about it…umK? Please?….
>>you may have invented the Internet.. but that doesn’t mean you have the right to define the standards in everything thats is part of it.<<
Actually it does. And there’s nothing you weak Europeans can do about it. Got a problem with it, invade us. That’s the only way you’ll ever get to our “root servers”. But you won’t.
Cowards.
You guys never stand up for anything, except maybe Fascism and/or surrendering to Fascists, depending on which pathetic European country you happen to be.
Keep sending your women over here to study in our *colleges* (i.e. not “Uni”) so us American guys can show them what a real man is all about.
what does the US stand for?
mass murder of innocents and the rape of nature?
racism?
“Actually it does. And there’s nothing you weak Europeans can do about it. Got a problem with it, invade us. That’s the only way you’ll ever get to our “root servers”. But you won’t. ”
Hah, we dont need to. All we need to do is put up our own servers and have all the ISP use those. If the don’t do it, put it in law. This basically seperates us from the US >part< of the internet. If enough join, the US would be the ones that are isolated.
Know what you are talking about! But hey you’re from the country that passed a law allowing you to invade our country to get your war criminals out. But you want to prosecute every other country’s war criminals undisturbed. So I can’t make sense of you anyway 😉
actually, that is what we are telling you to do. Take your euro trash and set up your own IP and DNS system, dont take ours away. We are letting you use ours for free go start your own.
right the fake court. keep in mind that it is unconstitutional in the US since it is higher than the US supreme court. Some of us will never bow down to an unelected euro court without a fight. Only in europe is someone guilty until found innocent.
Only in europe is someone guilty until found innocent
Do you remember Guantanamo ? And yes, in every European country, like in almost every country around the world (Argentina, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Japan, etc…), a man is innocent until found guilty.
“Do you remember Guantanamo”
what? you mean people caught in the battlefield not in uniform and not fighting for a military? they should have been shot according to the geneva conventions. Not wearing a uniform when fighting is a serious crime because it puts civillians at risk. Of course, dont let the facts get in the way of hating America.
what? you mean people caught in the battlefield not in uniform and not fighting for a military? they should have been shot according to the geneva conventions. Not wearing a uniform when fighting is a serious crime because it puts civillians at risk. Of course, dont let the facts get in the way of hating America.
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err? what! geneva conventions, do you understand anything about that and why you are showing your lack of understanding when you say they should have being shot according to the convention
again I ask, what are you taught over there?
wait, are you saying that fighting out of uniform is not a crime? What are YOU taught over there (other than american is bad)
FYI: In Guantanamo were kept hundreds of people in captivity because the US gov thought they were guilty for facts related to 9/11. It turned out after more than 2 years withour lawyers that the large majority was innocent and didn’t have anything to do with 9/11. USA didn’t respect the Genova convention which says that everyone has the right to have a lawyer if they are not pursued for war crime. US doesn’t have any excuses for not respecting one of the basics of democracy.
i like how you have declared them innocent from the comfort of your computer. impressive.
I’m not : the US army dropped the charge. Go and try to read and learn.
i like how you have declared them innocent from the comfort of your computer. impressive.
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I like how you pass off sending innocent people to jail and torture from the comfort of your computer
innoent people are not captured in combat out of unform.
innoent people are not captured in combat out of unform.
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Arn’t they? some are
and the others might be defending there home from invaders, like you yourself would do if you was invading, would you stay at home due to it being illegal?
go read the convention. there is an excpetion for that, but it is not for people who pretend to be civillians but also fight that is a crime and rightfully so.
innoent people are not captured in combat out of unform.
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Arn’t they? some are
and the others might be defending there home from invaders, like you yourself would do if you was invading, would you stay at home due to it being illegal?
” Genova convention which says that everyone has the right to have a lawyer if they are not pursued for war crime”
please tell me more about this Genova convention” and these rights. I only thought the GENEVA convention applied here and no such rights exist.
http://www.unhchr.ch/french/html/menu3/b/91_fr.htm
Article 105 : Le prisonnier de guerre aura le droit d’être assisté par un de ses camarades prisonniers, d’être défendu par un avocat qualifié de son choix, de faire citer des témoins et de recourir, s’il l’estime nécessaire, aux offices d’un interprète compétent. Il sera avisé de ces droits en temps utile, avant les débats, par la Puissance détentrice.
yeah, in english please. like i am going to believe something in 1. french and 2. from the fricking UN
I’m loosing patience. You have no clue what you’re talking about. You’re talking about combattant in a war scene. I am talking about the people arrested while living in US because of suspection of participation in the events of 9/11. Where is the link ? Are you able to read AND understand ?
At least we know that you don’t understand French.
Another try from http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm :
Article 105
The prisoner of war shall be entitled to assistance by one of his prisoner comrades, to defence by a qualified advocate or counsel of his own choice, to the calling of witnesses and, if he deems necessary, to the services of a competent interpreter. He shall be advised of these rights by the Detaining Power in due time before the trial.
Failing a choice by the prisoner of war, the Protecting Power shall find him an advocate or counsel, and shall have at least one week at its disposal for the purpose. The Detaining Power shall deliver to the said Power, on request, a list of persons qualified to present the defence. Failing a choice of an advocate or counsel by the prisoner of war or the Protecting Power, the Detaining Power shall appoint a competent advocate or counsel to conduct the defence.
The advocate or counsel conducting the defence on behalf of the prisoner of war shall have at his disposal a period of two weeks at least before the opening of the trial, as well as the necessary facilities to prepare the defence of the accused. He may, in particular, freely visit the accused and interview him in private. He may also confer with any witnesses for the defence, including prisoners of war. He shall have the benefit of these facilities until the term of appeal or petition has expired.
Particulars of the charge or charges on which the prisoner of war is to be arraigned, as well as the documents which are generally communicated to the accused by virtue of the laws in force in the armed forces of the Detaining Power, shall be communicated to the accused prisoner of war in a language which he understands, and in good time before the opening of the trial. The same communication in the same circumstances shall be made to the advocate or counsel conducting the defence on behalf of the prisoner of war.
The representatives of the Protecting Power shall be entitled to attend the trial of the case, unless, exceptionally, this is held in camera in the interest of State security. In such a case the Detaining Power shall advise the Protecting Power accordingly.
actually, i cant believe you euros are so ignorant. here is the text of GC III.
Art 4 covers all conflicts not covered by Art 3 which are all conflicts of an international character. It defines who is a prisoner of war and, therefor, a protected person under GCIII. Those entitled to prisoner of war status include:
4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces
4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfil the following conditions:
that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (although this is not required under Protocol I);
that of carrying arms openly;
that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
4.1.3 Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4.1.6 Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
4.3 makes explicit that Article 33 takes precedence for the treatment of medical personnel of the enemy and chaplains of the enemy.
care to explain how Al-Queda fulfills these? i cant even believe you people actually accept the trash your giv tells you. all the more reason why you shoudl have no control over the internet that i use.
where does it say THAT THEY MUST BE SHOT as you said they should be according to the GV?
Hate to break it to you, but killing innocent people is murder even if the US govt lets them off, remember the soliders pumping injured men on the ground full of bullets, thats called murder
once again a euro weenie who cant read. I said ” they should have been shot according to the geneva conventions.” I never said ” THAT THEY MUST BE SHOT” as you claim i did. If you dont believe me (as you know only euros can tell the truth) go back and look at the original post.
now that i have cleared up your inability to understand english, a person who violates the geneva conventions is not a POW and falls in spy status. They may be shot. So to shooting them is still following to the geneva conventions. go look it up.
I also like how you immedialty declared them innocent. If you are caught on a battlefield without a uniform and carrying arms you are guilty of violating the geneva conventions.
The points i make are based on the GC, you clearly have not read them and just accept what you are told at face value. go read the actual documents. There is no poing replying to you, you’re too stupid to get it.
I can’t believe you’re not even able to read AND understand your own language…
Turn of Fox News and start reading up. A lot of people got sold by local warlords to the US forces as “talibans” since they could get money for those..
“right the fake court. keep in mind that it is unconstitutional in the US since it is higher than the US supreme court. Some of us will never bow down to an unelected euro court without a fight. Only in europe is someone guilty until found innocent.”
lol.. at least we dont kill people and say it was for the best..
how many innocents have you killed that way? well, i guess it comes with the territory..
for real, you still think the death pennalty its a good idea? i bet most of the americans (again, the educated ones) think its not.
Only in europe is someone guilty until found innocent.
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you’re kidding right??? LOL
you don’t keep up with the news do you kiddy!
I take it you’ve heard of guatemala Bay?
“you don’t keep up with the news do you kiddy!
I take it you’ve heard of guatemala Bay?”
actually no. care to explain “guatemala Bay” to me. I clearly have not kept up with the news. I would like to know more about “guatemala Bay”
To US citizens : we know you’re not all like the guy I’m responding to. Some of you (the educated ones) does not put all their pride with the supposed size of their penis
Thank you, lezard. This moron is giving all Americans a bad name. I guess some just can’t keep their mouths shut, or maybe they’re not trying. But that kind of backward thinking belongs in the past.
There are stupid everywhere, we all know that
I am not that smart anyway…
As I don’t trust any gov (mine including), I think the only place where you can get the right decision is the place where you can have a debate.
Exactly. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’ll be able to resolve this problem by debate, as you’ve noticed. Still, it’s so stereotypical of whoever this idiot is to be spouting off this kind of xenophic drivel. Almost makes me ashamed to be American. I do love my country, but some of my countrymen I can do without. Cheers.
To US citizens : we know you’re not all like the guy I’m responding to. Some of you (the educated ones) does not put all their pride with the supposed size of their penis
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Oh, oh…let me…this one is begging for a retort.
THis is because they have SMALL penis’s.
Had to reply. No flames, plz.
Keep sending your women over here to study in our *colleges* (i.e. not “Uni”) so us American guys can show them what a real man is all about.
Fool yankee, what we send is sh**; we, just like you, prefer to keep the good stuff at home, safe from fat Mc Donalds eater bastards.
Go eat your calories; “How many pounds do you want to gain today?”
Nothing is North American, because north america is a sublclass of the rest of the world. You’re American :: IEuropean (which in turn comes from below the class level).
(I had to answer this, I’m laughing out loud).
The “Uni” you’re talking about sucks, you pay thounsands of dollars to be trained by fat pigs like you. Sigh.. if you only opened your minds JUST a little bit…
Let’s just use Rendevouz (Ejem.. Bonjour) oh no… that’s American too… ok, let’s just use Air Mail to send TCP packets back and forth.
Here’s a Diet Coke for ya, american fella… (oh Coke is american? sh** we can’t do anything, we’re doomed!)
As usual Americans try to portray the Internet as the US’s gift to the world, delivered neatly packaged out of nothing.
This is forgetting that the Internet as we know it today would not exist without the WWW, which was created by people on the payroll of CERN, a European government-funded organization.
Sure, the IP protocol is the direct heir of academic research projects that have had some funding from US government agencies, but it has always been an academic project, with input from researchers all over the world. All the concepts behind IP can trace their origins in research papers and experiments in the US, Europe and Japan.
On the other hand I don’t really care about that particular topic. Administration of the DNS top servers doesn’t amount to “controlling the flow of information”, not by a long shot. If China wants to lay some fiber over to North Korea and circulate some IP packets on it, there’s nothing the US or ICANN can do about it, DNS or not. It just takes some gateway to be install on top of existing domains for the thing to be accessible from all over the world.
Nobody controls the Internet and ever will, that’s the whole beauty of the concept. There is nothing really at stake here.
As usual Americans try to portray the Internet as the US’s gift to the world, delivered neatly packaged out of nothing.
This is forgetting that the Internet as we know it today would not exist without the WWW, which was created by people on the payroll of CERN, a European government-funded organization.
Sure, the IP protocol is the direct heir of academic research projects that have had some funding from US government agencies, but it has always been an academic project, with input from researchers all over the world. All the concepts behind IP can trace their origins in research papers and experiments in the US, Europe and Japan.
On the other hand I don’t really care about that particular topic. Administration of the DNS top servers doesn’t amount to “controlling the flow of information”, not by a long shot. If China wants to lay some fiber over to North Korea and circulate some IP packets on it, there’s nothing the US or ICANN can do about it, DNS or not. It just takes some gateway to be install on top of existing domains for the thing to be accessible from all over the world.
Nobody controls the Internet and ever will, that’s the whole beauty of the concept. There is nothing really at stake here.
As usual Americans try to portray the Internet as the US’s gift to the world, delivered neatly packaged out of nothing.
This is forgetting that the Internet as we know it today would not exist without the WWW, which was created by people on the payroll of CERN, a European government-funded organization.
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You know, the napoleon complex I keep seeing form the euro’s is starting to get tiring.
No kidding, the euro’s have contributed a lot. So? There are a lot of uninformed posters here. Isn’t the “anonymous” internet a beautiful thing?
IP: 155.41.133 wrote
And if it wasnt for us Canadians coming and cleaning up
after your wars. And putting up with your crying to us and britan to help you out all the time. We would be in a better place”
Canadians hide behind the power of the US military that is what allows them to fund their military like a boy scout troop and then turn around and claim they are “peaceful”. In other words hide behind the cover of the big bad Americans when convenient but immediately distance themselves from American Policy when it appears unpopular to the Europeans.
If Americans are as bad as Canadians make them out to be Canada would have been annexed many years ago just like the Soviets did to Estonia/Latvia and the Chinese did to Mongolia.
I think you will find when a country is invaded many citizens will attempt to fight the foriegn invaders
I don’t the convention tells them to shoot them
I thought you lot liked freedom fighters? hell you sponsered the IRA for years to murder innocents only when it happened to yourselfs did freedom fighter suddenly turned into a bad word and became terrorists
To those whinning because they can’t have what we invented and do have, do you realize that if your goverments did get control that it would cost YOU? You do know that the UN has had a hard-on for years for putting taxes on the Internet, don’t you? Are you really that anxious to pay money to use what is currently free?
Please, feel free to start your own Internet, and disconnect the US from it. That way, when you send out an email and you have to pay for it, and when you cannot read websites due to it being censored, sit there and be thankfull that at least you can go to .xxx and get your porn.
Quote monkeydo off slashdot:
WTF does any of this have to do with the “day to day operations of the net?” The day to day operations of the net are accomplished by obscure engineers toiling in relative anonymity at ISP’s all across the globe. This is about editorial control (not even technical control) of the “.” DNS zone file, and nothing more. This is such a non-issue technically and for the future “evolution” of the Internet that it’s laughable watching all the anti-American slashbots get worked into a lather over it.
Basically what this boils down to is who gets to say what new TLDs (like .com, .net, etc.) will be created. Right now it is ICANN under contract with the Department of Commerce. Some think it should be the UN. Honestly, I really don’t know why. It’s a minor thing that has nothing to do with actually controlling anything. If you don’t like the US DoC controlling your root (and remember it’s just the file, not the servers themselves), you already have alternatives [wikipedia.org].
right lets get this straight, if a foreign country invades you and its citizens fight back against foreign aggressors, then they are spies!!!!!!!!
god damm, no wonder your country is so F**K up
keep in mind it is the GENEVA convention, your country probably also signed it.
Why not? they are more truthful then your proven lying govt
ah good oke Kojo and Kofi annan. From the people who brought you oil for food and the congo rape for food scandals.
Why not? they are more truthful then your proven lying govt
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And I suppose where you live you have cornered the market on honest politicians? Bah!
WMD? Iraq was responsible for 911? what about the rest of the lies your govt being caught up with?
I’d rather believe them the Bush and the oil giants
good for you. do that.
WMD? Iraq was responsible for 911? what about the rest of the lies your govt being caught up with?
I’d rather believe them the Bush and the oil giants
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US never said Iraq was responsible for 911.
Iraq was invaded because of all the UN mandates that were broken consistently since the first Persian Gulf war. What the heck is the UN doing passing resolutions if the guy just scoffs them up and wastes people as the UN does nothing?
Oh, OK, cross THIS line and die. No? Cross THIS line and die. Dammit, quit it! -UN
So many childish comments, on both sides! I don’t have enough votes to make them all at least 1 negative point. People have lost the ability to have intellectual conversations and present arguments, and accept competing arguments gracefully. This topic has gone down the drail…
i cant help but wonder if this story was posted to do just that. Some topics attract the loonies and this whole US vs Europe thing has been brewing since 1919.
err, you have a problem with arrest for Genocide :cough:
yeah, when unelected officials in a foreign country try to convict me of “genocide” based on their own standards of evidence for something i supposedly did in some other country, i would have a problem with that.
Reminds me a bit of the CIA agents in Italy, theres is warrants for there arrest due to them kidnapping a Italian citizens and transporting them to another country so they could be tortured
right. so who has been convicted of that? have they even found the people who supposedly did that? nope. but conspiricy theories aside, the us gov doesnt officially have laws that give it universal jurisdiction like some EU states.
The good thing about Western countries is that the average person is able to have a fairly high standard of living in spite of corruption all around. The rich are able to get away with crime and the smaller groups are the escape goats, however if you are able to keep out of the spotlight, which is the smart thing to do, than the west offers the most possibilities, and it is up to you to take advantage of them or not. The Internet issue is just something else to fight over and the USA has a bad reputation because of Microsoft and the idiot decisions that their government makes and the simple child like acceptance of the religious worshippers toward anyone who throws on a robe and calls themselves priests. Well I just wanted to tell all of Europe that most Canadians do not trust the government in the USA or Canada, but we are normal people who have a good life and try to stay out of all the fighting. I like Linux and freedom but this is only true so long as I keep out of the power stuggle, because seeking control leads to corruption.
The problem with the US in my mind at this time is that big business has too much control on govt
eg. Bush is trying push through new laws that tha will give tax breaks to oil companies whilst also relaxing environment laws?!!?! its things like that think WTF is going one over there
good thing you euro weenies cant vote over here and therefore what you think doesnt matter. As a matter of fact, you dont matter. you are just one person and what you think means nothing. The people who can vote disagree and fortunately what they think matters.
have a nice day.
The problem with the US in my mind at this time is that big business has too much control on govt
eg. Bush is trying push through new laws that tha will give tax breaks to oil companies whilst also relaxing environment laws?!!?! its things like that think WTF is going one over there
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He’s not going to kill big companies and force people to lose their jobs. I say bravo! If you were unemployed, how would you feel, trying to figure out how to put food on your plate?
Although other countries are shrewd, at least someone in the US knows what he is doing. Without companies that employee the citizens, it’s tough to run a country.
How do you all like it that everything is now made in china? Cause they work for peanuts…and how may envirnmental controls do you think that communist state puts on it’s factories? See if you can find accurate info.
Even though you may not like how things are done here, there is at least a chance that if things don’t work out that they can change. Since you are not citizens, feel free to ZIP THY LIPS when it comes to policy and laws here in the US. What makes you think you can bitch about them? You have no rights over in the US, so (refer back to the ZIP THY LIPS statement).
If you are offended by this post, then I’m sure you know this is the way it is and it burns your biscuits cause you can’t do anything about it.
In the West doing something good is very difficult and it is not financially prudent. It is far easier to do nothing or to get into a group and do bad things involving an attack on some other group. That might not be democracy but it is real life and we are just trying to survive. The USA is a protectionist and it should be because it is getting an ass kicking from all over the place.
Indeed invent something else, some other Internet. It isn’t about finding the answer, it is about financing it and producing it. The knowledge is worth two cents but actually doing something is worth all the money.
“The USA is a protectionist and it should be because it is getting an ass kicking from all over the place.”
man, what world are you on? how manty super powers are there? what the the richest and most powerful country in the world?
i seriously hope you dont believe what you post.
I don’t know who the most powerful country is. I know that Canada would enevitably back the USA if there was some major world confontation but the USA has huge financial problems and its people are sloppy. Probably most people in Canada are too.
I live in the richest province in Canada and I’m a millionaire and I have nothing to do with the USA. I don’t agree with the war, I’m scared of the USA’s religious fundamentalism; they are a bunch of nut cakes. It appears that we are going to be shipping our oil to China. So I don’t know what is going to happen but the USA is very unstable.
I live in the richest province in Canada and I’m a millionaire and I have nothing to do with the USA. I don’t agree with the war, I’m scared of the USA’s religious fundamentalism; they are a bunch of nut cakes. It appears that we are going to be shipping our oil to China. So I don’t know what is going to happen but the USA is very unstable.
So you have nothing to do with America yet you can determine that my country is unstable? You my friend are the definition of an idiot.
So I don’t know what is going to happen but the USA is very unstable.
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To be a millionaire, you must have done a lot of stealing. Not as much as a billionaire, but a lot non-theless. You have benefited from laws that help you make money. This is what the USA and Canada and other western countries are about. Thanks for participating.
Now, go ahead and ship your crap to CHINA, seeing as they deliver EVERYTING else to us. I’m sick of everything being cheap and being made there. In fact, even stuff that I think is quality, when I look at the label, it says “Made in China”. God dammit, I want to PAY for something quality made here…
Comments in general…not intended to the original author:
It’s tough. Getting tougher and tougher. With all the laws and regulations that we have to impose on large corporations (and you idiots how demand all of this), let’s see how long you laugh when you lose your job since it moved to CHINA where it is much cheaper to do business due to few regulations and then SHIP it back to you with no “protectionist” restrictions.
The USA is a protectionist and it should be because it is getting an ass kicking from all over the place.
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It’s hard to play when the teams are 200-2. (US_UK). You minor players should settle down and watch the master at his craft. Make sure you feed your people and provide jobs and protection. This is what a government is(should) be all about.
Which politician does not protect his interests, anyway? Why should the US not protect things it considers important to it’s self-preservation? You got me stumped (cause you used protectionist in a general way, I responded with some generalities also).
“It’s hard to play when the teams are 200-2. (US_UK). You minor players should settle down and watch the master at his craft. Make sure you feed your people and provide jobs and protection. This is what a government is(should) be all about.”
Oh please! What a joke. It’s pretty hard to read your statement with a straight face when 12.7% of the US popultation lives under the poverty rate (stats from 2004). Feel free to Google this.
“It’s hard to play when the teams are 200-2. (US_UK). You minor players should settle down and watch the master at his craft. Make sure you feed your people and provide jobs and protection. This is what a government is(should) be all about.”
Oh please! What a joke. It’s pretty hard to read your statement with a straight face when 12.7% of the US popultation lives under the poverty rate (stats from 2004). Feel free to Google this.
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You got this all twisted up. If you (in general, “you”) argue about an insignificant point (my claim about this tLD thing) and I say do something more important, like feed your people, it does not seem reasonable that you can come back and say “yeah, but your people are hungry too!”. Just because people else where are starving does not mean that you should ignore your own people and go after something like this, which is TRIVIAl compared to hunger. I don’t disagree with the facts, and don’t want to verify them. Just, it does not help the people in YOUR country who COULD CARE LESS WHY THE US VETO’D the tLD when they ARE HUNGRY.
That is the point I was trying to make, not that the US has fewer hungry people than someone else.
“You got this all twisted up. If you (in general, “you”) argue about an insignificant point (my claim about this tLD thing) and I say do something more important, like feed your people, it does not seem reasonable that you can come back and say “yeah, but your people are hungry too!”. Just because people else where are starving does not mean that you should ignore your own people and go after something like this, which is TRIVIAl compared to hunger. I don’t disagree with the facts, and don’t want to verify them. Just, it does not help the people in YOUR country who COULD CARE LESS WHY THE US VETO’D the tLD when they ARE HUNGRY.
That is the point I was trying to make, not that the US has fewer hungry people than someone else.”
And my point was that you should STFU about dealing with hungry people in my country, when there are more of them in yours.
money isn’t everything, and when everybody finally realises that then the world will be a happier place
I live in oil rich Alberta, it is the second largest source of proven oil in the world, and although the USA is our friend, we do not agree on everything. I hate Microsoft from one point of view but from another point of view Microsoft is not important. It would probably be easier to invent a new Internet than to compete against Microsoft on their Internet, but it seems that nobody is willing to do their own thing except the USA, so that means it is better to get out of there completely and find a new job in some other sector.
I live in oil rich Alberta, it is the second largest source of proven oil in the world, and although the USA is our friend, we do not agree on everything. I hate Microsoft from one point of view but from another point of view Microsoft is not important. It would probably be easier to invent a new Internet than to compete against Microsoft on their Internet, but it seems that nobody is willing to do their own thing except the USA, so that means it is better to get out of there completely and find a new job in some other sector.
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Again, people hate MS cause it’s the biggest and has the most influence. I don’t care what you all say about why you hate it…my take is that, even though it is considered a monopoly, there are currently PLENTY of choices for you all to use. LINUX…etc. Free. What could be better? I just don’t understand.
Just because companies are “locked in” to MS and so are organizations that have used it, they are not really locked in. There is choice, and they will decide when and if to convert…MS has nothing to do with this.
MS does employ a lot of people, and I for one in the IT field don’t get paid by anything coming out of the LINUX camp, as far as I know. I don’t get paid by MS, but their OS being attacked every day causes work for me. I like that. Yes, it’s a waste, but it keeps me employed.
One last time, if you don’t like MS, feel free to use other, open source stuff and have a nice day. It’s all about choice. Stop the hating, start the converting.
good thing you euro weenies cant vote over here and therefore what you think doesnt matter. As a matter of fact, you dont matter. you are just one person and what you think means nothing. The people who can vote disagree and fortunately what they think matters.
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What are you onabout? LOL
A big problem on the internet, a lot of times you can’t tell who is trolling to antagonise people or who actually believe such xenophobic nonsense
I like America. Especially Argentina and Canada.
Funny how many people think that America is a country…
SCNR
Funny how many people think that America is a country…
that, my friend, comes from the fact that US of A. citizens, have no idea that there’s a world and other countries around them, thus they use the term American as if they were the only ones in “America”. Not only they are not the only ones, they are the most ignorant regarding General Culture of the rest of the world, and genies in their OWN culture. (Ask a citizen of the US of A what is the name of the river that crosses state “xx” and he’ll know, now ask what the capital of Polland is and they will say … errr. Brazil?”
(You may be about to mod me down, but this HAPPENED to me. The exact same question.)
Needless to say, the whole room was laughing out loud… and I’ve heard such stories many times (-> been involved with international student programs).
US of A citizens… grab a copy of Encarta (Made by/for/in the US of A btw) and learn “something”. We -the rest of the world- are not asking too much… are we?
Funny how many people think that America is a country…
that, my friend, comes from the fact that US of A. citizens, have no idea that there’s a world and other countries around them, thus they use the term American as if they were the only ones in “America”. Not only they are not the only ones, they are the most ignorant regarding General Culture of the rest of the world, and genies in their OWN culture. (Ask a citizen of the US of A what is the name of the river that crosses state “xx” and he’ll know, now ask what the capital of Polland is and they will say … errr. Brazil?”
(You may be about to mod me down, but this HAPPENED to me. The exact same question.)
Needless to say, the whole room was laughing out loud… and I’ve heard such stories many times (-> been involved with international student programs).
US of A citizens… grab a copy of Encarta (Made by/for/in the US of A btw) and learn “something”. We -the rest of the world- are not asking too much… are we?
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Then you have noting to fear. Why sweat it? Nice generalizations, also. Those come in very handy when everyone around you thinks the same way and hears the same stereotypes. Do you actually consider yourself superior in some way? I think you do. You are just as foolish and arrogant as those you are trying to portray.
Funny how many people think that America is a country…
that, my friend, comes from the fact that US of A. citizens, have no idea that there’s a world and other countries around them, thus they use the term American as if they were the only ones in “America”. Not only they are not the only ones, they are the most ignorant regarding General Culture of the rest of the world, and genies in their OWN culture. (Ask a citizen of the US of A what is the name of the river that crosses state “xx” and he’ll know, now ask what the capital of Polland is and they will say … errr. Brazil?”
(You may be about to mod me down, but this HAPPENED to me. The exact same question.)
Needless to say, the whole room was laughing out loud… and I’ve heard such stories many times (-> been involved with international student programs).
US of A citizens… grab a copy of Encarta (Made by/for/in the US of A btw) and learn “something”. We -the rest of the world- are not asking too much… are we?
I think the problem is that you guys value useless information too much. World geography is not that useful simple question can an African Pygmy go through life not knowing where Tasmania is? or that Warsaw is the capital of Poland?(no i didn’t look it up) All signs point to yes.
Now that is a funny argument. You’re defending your ignorance by saying that a pygmy can go through life without knowing where Tasmania is. Is your lifestyle similar to a pygmys? Ah well, I suppose it worked for the president.
I like America. Especially Argentina and Canada.
Funny how many people think that America is a country…
SCNR
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It is. The ones you mentioned are third world (at best).
When it comes to war there are three things you do:
1) Support side A
2) Support side B
3) Be like Switzerland and STFU
Apply as you want to Bush/Usa, Saddam/Iraq.
REALLY, REALLY IGNORANT! They learn history from comic books and cartoons instead of from history books.
Hey, at least Americans can read. They also know how to use capital letters.
Euro weenies can’t read and when you tell them about history they wet themselves in fear.
Do you see how productive that was? Good job! you have raised the caliber of debate on this forum.
One thing is apparent in this particular argument after reading all these posts. It boils down to this “We hate American government; synonymous with the American people(America’s government is its people) and anything we can do to hurt the country or take away from it since we can’t compete fairly at any other level” and “We want to provide antagonists of America like Syria, Iran, and China control of a powerful resource because yet again it can damages America” also more importantly “We as Europeans say we are friends of America but stab them in their back any chance we get”. I am not surprised there are so many that have such a blind hatred for me and my country, what does surprise me is that the hatred affects their very own cognitive reasoning skills and poisons any valuable technical discussion on the issue. People that otherwise get along fine in technical situations.
I think the real issue is that people fear America. We basically do whatever we want and don’t care what happens to anyone else, and that scares other people. Polls show that most people fear American attacks more than Bin Laden/fundamentalists.
Plus, no one likes a winner. That’s why everyone roots for the underdog.
Finally, there is a lot of hypocrisy in America. Everywhere else as well, but people tend to ignore their own hypocrisy and focus on others.
Well if that’s the case then we are in real trouble. People in the world aren’t receiving the proper education about America then. We have always done whatever we wanted from the beginning of this country. No one complained when the cold war was going on and now that that is done we are somehow magically turned into a hegemonic country? America doesn’t change that fast. People need to study history a little closer (keeping in mind the context of the times) from that anyone can derive what America stands for and what its values are.
While we’ve always done what we wanted, America wasn’t really considered a power until WW2. Until then we were just a midlevel country on the other side of the world that most people ignored. After WW2 the choice was clear – you either supported America or the USSR. And given that choice, America seemed like a savior. But now the choice is different – America or your own country, because no one is threatening it, except for possibly America. And given that choice, most people choose their own country, even when they live in places like Iran.
I fail to see your point. There are very few countries on the planet that have anything to fear from America, those that do know why. This logic that somehow we area threat to the EU and that because of that fallacious belief they somehow have something in common with countries like Iran? North Korea? mind boggling. Again it’s not that surprising given the behavior of most European countries towards Hitler in the years leading up to WWII they are truly the “Why can’t we all get along” conglomerate.
You are missing the point. The point is that countries have nothing to fear AT ALL, except for America. We are the only plausible threat that still exists.
Are we really going to start bombing Paris tomorrow? Of course not. But neither is anyone else, and we are the only ones who even have that capability.
We Americans assume that the only world threat is that of terrorists, because they are the only ones who can attack us (everyone else would instantly be killed in a nuclear counterattack). But in other countries, the chance of dying in a terrorist attack is considered quite small. Small enough that the chance of some crazy American deciding to destroy their entire country sounds more likely, even though it actually isn’t (except in maybe a few countries like Iran).
Like it or not, people around the world aren’t very worried about some lone bombman. They are worried about a country that doesn’t seem to care about them and has the ability to kill them all.
You highlight an important ideological difference between Americans, Europeans and the rest of the world. Europeans are only concerned with what happened within their own borders and perhaps EU borders. Oh sure they fawn concern for other places in the world but ultimately they are short sighted when it comes to global power politics. In other words they can’t see the forest for the trees. They complain that our media is biased have you ever seem theirs? I have, Its un-friggin believably bias against the US. Germany for instance has laws that limit outside television programming to 30% you think in that 30% any of it is news with a different perspective?
if people trully believe that we are any kind of threat to anyone other then those that wish harm on us then they are sick.
Polls show that most people fear American attacks more than Bin Laden/fundamentalists. I don’t know about these polls, but one thing’s for sure. US of America Citizens are SCARED the hell out of everybody. Keep closing borders and imposing more and more visas to restrict the “terrorists” to enter you borders…
… like it’s gonna make any difference.
Can’t you see? You do what you want, but the rest of the world is finally realizing that it doesn’t care… we/I don’t care. Do whatever you want, as long.. but please, stop trying to sell Freedom when you can’t control you own dammed border.
Yeah I’m a rich idiot.
They are all unstable, because power currupts individuals.