http://www.osnews.com/story/12430/VS_2005_SQL_Server_2005_NET_Framework_2_0_Released Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 22 May 2013 20:02:39 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://www.osnews.com/thread?52061 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52061 Does anyone know if the Express Editions will still be free? I really liked being able to try out the pieces without needing the whole thing. Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (LGordon) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52063 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52063 As far as I know they will cost $50 bucks a pop. Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52080 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52080 That really took a long time. Hopefully they will now address the remaining performance issues with the JIT such as the lack of struct inlining.

Anyway, I prefer a late but good release to a fast but broken release (like e.g. java "generics"). Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52090 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52090 *zzz* - java, gcc, mono, freepascal, python and accompanying IDEs
As for GUI - gtk, wxwidgets, qt which are available for most plattforms (i don't know how it is on MacOSX though).

Yes, actually MSVS is a nice IDE, IMO the only descent product available from their house, but I still didn't understand why companies pay so much money for an application which is available for much less ...

Maybe I'm wrong and just too much used to gedit which has every function I could ever need (manual refactoring, manual compilation, manual source browsing and so on). Granted, I never had to refactor code twenty times before beginning to understand it, so until now I don't know what refactoring is good for
_________________________
Total: a very good IDE for Windows-only applications, too expensive (IMO). Or can your startup deal/firm afford 10 MSVC licences just to have a better GUI? Go eclipse, go dev-c++, go kdevelop, go anjuta, go lazarus, move your butts and kick MSVC's own

As for me - I'm really looking sharp at freepascal right now - too powerful is that monster.
_________________________

PS: same for SQL Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52121 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52121 I think the question is, can a person be more productive with VS.NET 2005 than with the alternatives without sacrificing quality? That question is not rhetorical - I honestly don't know the answer. But if the answer is yes, then time is money and the time saved using it will eventually pay for itself.
As an analogy, a friend of mine (who is a professional web developer) paid several hundred dollars for Dreamweaver, and then made it all back in one afternoon after completing just one job. Of course, you're not going to be programming any other platforms than Windows with VS.NET, but if that's all you're after anyway, it's probably the right tool for the job. Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52132 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52132 They WILL BE DEFINITELY free for download, but they will cost 50 bucks if you choosed retail buy, box, manuals etc.

Question is: download link for EXPRESS final, anyone?

cowgaR Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52143 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52143 check out:

http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/

while all the others of my class used version 2004 of visual studio.net, i used this program.
it uses less space and provides about the same interface as the MS-product.
and after all, it's FREE

Dj Comidi Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52160 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52160 The final version of the express edition isn't out yet. And there is no indication that downloads for the final version will be free. Only the beta is freely available. The FAQ states they will be sold for $49/each. Very acceptable if you ask me. I've been using beta2 and it is quite nice. Does everything visual studio ever did for me and is a bit lighter. Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52172 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52172 SQL Server 2005 Express will be free, just as MSDE 2000 was/is.

Visual C#/VB/C++/Web Express were never said to be free ($50 for each). Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52187 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52187 "All will be available via MSDN today."

And tomorrow on P2P networks...

Visual_Studio* > /dev/null 2>&1

gcc is the way ! Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52199 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52199 well one case in point for myself is the ability to click the play button and my app compiles. Of course, learning thirty different compile switches is an important aspect of programming too, but I tend to prefer driving my car rather than spending all day polishing it, and run out of time. Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52241 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52241 SQL Server 2005 Express will be free, even when the other Express packages are sold. It will also likely be download-only, although packaged with the other Express stuff. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BrianH) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52244 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52244 Unlike Visual Studio 6 or Visual Studio 2002, I think Visual Studio 2003 is a great product with a nice C++ compiler.

I hope that the next service pack for Visual Studio 2003 doesn't break things or introduce annoying anomolies to the point where we feel compelled to upgrade or uninstall the service pack. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52270 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52270 Can we pre-order anywhere so that we get it delivered to our doors on Nov. 7th? I've got a new ASP.NET project starting in November and I'd definitely like to do it with 2005, I just don't want to wait too long to get started. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52275 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52275 C++ is one of the easiest but also least secure languages to work with.

Visual Studio 6 will not improve on this.

If your concerns are solid code and security, stick with C.

If you want to make quick 3rd party apps for Windows then stick with C++.

Just be prepared to deal with the maintenance issues. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52276 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52276 MySQL hands down.

Why?

Features, support, performance and 100% FREE...

I love MySQL. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52277 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52277 this post has a valid point.

please do not mod down in favor of pro MS related posts OSnews.com.

fair is fair.

---------------------------------------

*zzz* - java, gcc, mono, freepascal, python and accompanying IDEs
As for GUI - gtk, wxwidgets, qt which are available for most plattforms (i don't know how it is on MacOSX though).

Yes, actually MSVS is a nice IDE, IMO the only descent product available from their house, but I still didn't understand why companies pay so much money for an application which is available for much less ...

Maybe I'm wrong and just too much used to gedit which has every function I could ever need (manual refactoring, manual compilation, manual source browsing and so on). Granted, I never had to refactor code twenty times before beginning to understand it, so until now I don't know what refactoring is good for
_________________________
Total: a very good IDE for Windows-only applications, too expensive (IMO). Or can your startup deal/firm afford 10 MSVC licences just to have a better GUI? Go eclipse, go dev-c++, go kdevelop, go anjuta, go lazarus, move your butts and kick MSVC's own

As for me - I'm really looking sharp at freepascal right now - too powerful is that monster.
_________________________

PS: same for SQL Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52284 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52284 Well at least they have eased the restrictions about publishing benchmark results a bit.
Now it is a lot easier to show how the .NET VM (CLR in dotnet speak) compares to Java VM's in benchmarks.
Java still has a commanding lead in benchmarks e.g. SciMark, even in the latest release.

Feel free to check this for yourself:
C# version of SciMark for VS2005:
http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~ckrintz/racelab/PhxCSBenchmarks/
Java version of SciMark:
http://math.nist.gov/scimark2/

Note to wannabe Java benchmarkers:
When you test a Java app be sure to use the -server switch as in:
java -server TestApp

And if you are looking for even more zip try one of these builds:
http://download.java.net/jdk6/binaries/ Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52285 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52285 Why?
Features


:-))))))))))))))))

And MySQL is NOT free. Let see the license... Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52286 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52286 *zzz* - java, gcc, mono, freepascal, python and accompanying IDEs
As for GUI - gtk, wxwidgets, qt which are available for most plattforms (i don't know how it is on MacOSX though).

Yes, actually MSVS is a nice IDE, IMO the only descent product available from their house, but I still didn't understand why companies pay so much money for an application which is available for much less ...

Because this stuffs (except gcc, qt and eclipse) are only funny toys if you compared to MSVS. Yes, if you create a simple "Hello word" application the difference is not too significant, but if you want to create commercial, enterprise-level apps, you will see this difference. And if you a professional developer, the price of the development environment is not too important. If you can cut off the time and the coft of the development with a decent IDE/RAD tool IMHO the VS is a good investment. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52287 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52287 Until MySQL has a top 10 entry over on TPC.org, it will not be taken seriously by businesses in the enterprise application space. As of now, MSSQL Server has the top 4 spots on price/transaction, which makes it an extremely attractive package for Windows.

http://tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_price_perf_results.asp

MySQL lends itself well to ISP/hosting type scenarios, but has some serious inroads to make into corporations. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52291 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52291 You bought up a very valid issue; for most people, can the Microsoft development suite really be justified? is it more an issue of a developing getting all excited about a new piece of software rather than sitting down and justifying the costs.

Believe me, being a geek, being excited about it and better still, the employer pays for it, I admit, I'd love to get every cool gadget that gets released; but lets be adults and justify the purchase; if the expected productivity increase doesn't correspond to the cost of the piece of software, then its a wasted investment; too bad many companies don't crunch that little formulae before upgrading, changing or standardising their software on a particular vendor. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52294 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52294 The professional software development is a business, not only an entertainment. I'am a linux developer (at this moment) and I tired many developer tools and environments. At this moment I use Kylix, because when my project was born it was the best tool for this purpose. But Kylix is died and there are many better alternatives (java, .NET) (when I started my project Java was very slow in the avarage computer, but now it is useable). IMHO there are only two viable alternative for business software: the java and the .NET. Java is better for linux, .NET is better for windows based desktop applications, and about equal for smaller windows-based servers apps. The basic IDE is cheaper for java (eclipse or netbeans) but the VS is far better then this tools. And because the most of customers want windows applications, the good decision for me the .NET and the Visual Studio. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52297 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52297 And why is it gcc all the way, Mr Linux Leet Dude?????????? Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tonywob) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52298 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52298 "Well at least they have eased the restrictions about publishing benchmark results a bit.
Now it is a lot easier to show how the .NET VM (CLR in dotnet speak) compares to Java VM's in benchmarks.
Java still has a commanding lead in benchmarks e.g. SciMark, even in the latest release.

Feel free to check this for yourself:
C# version of SciMark for VS2005:
http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~ckrintz/racelab/PhxCSBenchmarks/
Java version of SciMark:
http://math.nist.gov/scimark2/
"

Those benchmarks you linked to were against C# during Beta 1. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Deviate_X) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52300 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52300 so why don't you marry it Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52301 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52301 And Oracle bough InnoDB, only good part of MySQL :-D

See this: www.fyracle.org Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52313 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52313 I would like to write in C# for PocketPC and could find only Visual Studio supporting this.

Can SharpDevelop handle PocketPC application projects? Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52314 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52314 Found some answers, though

http://wiki.sharpdevelop.net/default.aspx/SharpDevelop.CompactFrame...
http://wiki.sharpdevelop.net/default.aspx/SharpDevelop.PocketPCs Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52349 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52349 Oh, come on. I'm not a fan of MySQL either, but doing this isn't fair - the TPC-C benchmark you linked to did not even test MySQL. Until one sees hard numbers on MySQL transaction performance one can't draw any conclusions. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moocha) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52443 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52443 "The basic IDE is cheaper for java (eclipse or netbeans) but the VS is far better then this tools. "


Those "basic" cheap IDE's that you mention for java are in fact FREE and comparing it to a thousand dollar product is comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare VS with a Java tool then compare it with something like Intellij IDEA , IBM Websphere , etc..I think you will be in for a surprise, specially IDEA , cheaper and superior. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52475 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52475 If you are going to compare old versions for speed, how about a nice one showing .NET 2.0 Beta 2 beating the 1.5 JVM:

http://www.theserverside.net/articles/showarticle.tss?id=NET2Benchm... Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52529 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52529 The basic IDE is cheaper for java (eclipse or netbeans) but the VS is far better then this tools.

Really? I found the opposite to be true. Eclipse is far nicer to work with than VS. Eclipse has way more advanced support for on the fly error checking and refactoring. VS is ok for C#/.NET, but Eclipse is a pleasure to code (Java) in. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52538 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52538 IDEA very nice IDE, but it doesn't seem better then the free Eclipse. Websphere is also very nice, but it is a little bit too expensive. The VS is better for me: not too expensive and more feature ritch then Eclipse. The other possible potential tool is the Borland JBuilder, but after the Kylix I never buy Borland product anymore. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52541 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52541 But the VE plugin is slow like a hell, there is not visual editor for JSP/JSF, you must code everything with your hand or buy external commercial plugins but it is a very dangerous thing, because if the company who created the plugin out of business you can't upgrade your Eclipse, because the old plugins are not compatible with the newer versions of Eclipse. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52588 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52588 Let the bug writing begin. Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52682 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52682 That's because MySQL simply can't compete performance-wise with any of the big players; they've submitted stuff before IIRC and it wasn't even close to the others. I'd really like to see some sort of OSS RDBMS make it into the top 10 at some point though. Not a huge fan of MySQL either, but it'd be a great day for OSS if they got a spot on the TPC (or PostGRE/Firebird/etc). Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?52734 http://www.osnews.com/thread?52734 How about a nice response from Sun explaining where Microsoft went wrong in that benchmark? http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=27801 Sat, 29 Oct 2005 05:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?53329 http://www.osnews.com/thread?53329 GCC isn't a development environment twits. A UNIX development environment is a combination of small utilities including (but not limited to) make, automake, autoconf, sh, awk, sed, a text editor, gdb, diff, cvs et al and gcc. If you're on a BSD system, you can ditch autotools for the pmake mk system (my preference). All of them do their job well. All of them are easily replacable. It'd be nice if people knew what they were talking about before making stupid comments.

Now if you want to slap an "IDE" on top of these to "intergrate" them, go ahead. Some people choose to live in ignorance to reduce their cognative load. Others choose not to. I prefer not to deal with IDE project files and other superferlous garbage.

I'm not sure how this all relates to Monad however. Flame away. Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?53332 http://www.osnews.com/thread?53332 Must have followed the cross linked reference from the monad story to the wrong comments. Ignore the last line. Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread?53473 http://www.osnews.com/thread?53473 Those benchmarks you linked to were against C# during Beta 1.

The links I gave were for projects containing the source code (C# and Java) so you can run the benchmarks yourself, like I have. I wasn't talking about any published results, download the code and run them yourself.

Java was significantly faster when I ran the tests a few days ago. Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments