With speculation of a ship date for Windows Vista ranging in the second part of 2006, word has surprisingly surfaced that it can be expected much earlier. BusinessWeek has received a copy of the internal blog of Chris Jones, who is a top Windows executive. The blog states that the code for Windows Vista will be completed by August 31, giving Microsoft the opportunity to place Vista on PCs for the 2006 Christmas season.
October 2006 isn’t the second part of 2006? Wasn’t it always known that Vista would ship in 2006?
If speculation says it will be arriving in Q206, and the internal blog says it will be ready by Q406, how is this earlier than expected?
The first link didn’t work because of typing error efter .htm (hooray for eyes and copy’n’paste)
But it still beats me how shipping somewhat late in 2nd half of 2006 is earlier than somewhere in the second part of 2006…
Doesn’t make much sense to me. I must be missing something… :s
Who cares?
Whats so big about vista anyway?
It`s like Win Xp with a new skin and default ipv6 support.
It`s like Win Xp with a new skin and default ipv6 support.
A new Windows with much improved security (esp IE7, more so than what XP will have), automatica hard drive optimizaiton, better search built-in (including virtual folders), better firewall built-in, symbolic links, new audio stack (adjust volume at the application level), a lot of other tweaks, and access to the best desktop apps on the market.
E.g. nothing that hobby OS’es don’t have already…
E.g. nothing that hobby OS’es don’t have already…
But on Linux is a b*tch to get going.
At this point, only two operating systems have decent searching functionality: BeOS/Zeta and OSX.
At this point, only two operating systems have decent searching functionality: BeOS/Zeta and OSX.
Of those OS’es you’ve tried, right?
I seriously doubt you’ve tried the other OS’es enough to come with such a statement
( I know you’ve tried all kinds – but still…)
Besides, GNU/Linux and Mac OS X probably don’t count as hobby OS’es
Decent searching functionality isn’t that hard to get going in GNU/Linux. At least not on LFS and Gentoo. Can’t say anything about other distros in that regard.
It’s fine Windows is getting these updates in functionality, but it’s not something worthy to be hyped. I’d rather call it embarrasing that it’s taking so long for a company of such a size, when many others have managed to do a lot more in much less time.
What is your opinion on SkyOS in regard to “decent searching” functionality? And MorphOS, Zeta, Haiku (to the extent it’s runnable – depends on your luck (and the build)).
What about Amiga OS (4), Syllable and what ever
Of those OS’es you’ve tried, right?
I seriously doubt you’ve tried the other OS’es enough to come with such a statement
( I know you’ve tried all kinds – but still…)
Let’s not get into that. I get tired, and my ISP gets an ulcer, and my wallet faints, from just staring at the amount of CDs I’ve donwloaded/burnt/bought with operating systems on them. I don’t throw them away, you see, so I’ve got this huge collection of operating systems. I also do not throw away old versions.
Decent searching functionality isn’t that hard to get going in GNU/Linux. At least not on LFS and Gentoo. Can’t say anything about other distros in that regard.
I’m talking about getting it without any form of hassle, as you get with OSX and BeOS/Zeta.
What is your opinion on SkyOS in regard to “decent searching” functionality?
I’ve been active in the SkyOS community since the 3.x days, years ago. The searching functionailty in SkyOS has been derived from BeFS’, but improved. However, SkyOS 1.0 (insider’s info: they’ve dropped the v5 version number and went back to 1.0) is not yet available for the general public as a final release, and therefor it does not count. I’m only talking about final versions here.
And MorphOS
MorphOS doesn’t even have protected memory yet, let alone searching functionality similar to OSX/BeOS/Zeta.
Zeta
Already named that one, even in my first post. Zeta is still BeOS to me.
Haiku (to the extent it’s runnable – depends on your luck (and the build)).
See my reply on SkyOS.
What about Amiga OS (4),
Same as for SkyOS and Haiku. Other than that, it doesn’t have this searching functionality anyway.
Syllable
Same for Syllable.
Nice answer. Knew you had something going for SkyOS so that’s why I asked. Didn’t know how much you’d going for it.
They have switched the versioning back to v.1? Hmm… there’s probably a good reason for that, but it could become confusing for some.
Anyway, from what I’ve read about SkyOS it seems very interesting apart from the theming. Looks like something I created once, for WB back in 1999 – and I’m no good at that
I’m not sure I agree about AOS4. It did get some enhancements to the searching in the newer PR’s. But perhaps I misread something, and so it isn’t there – yet.
Take a look at Beagle… it’s nice: it combines kernel’s inotify support with a user-space real-time indexing engine, so it is just as powerful as Spotlight.
So beagle is now integrated into the desktop and into many of the core desktop applications, including easy addition of user defined meta data from the file manager? Or is it still only really used as a desktop search program? If yes, then it doesn’t even come close to spotlight. Well, except of the part of spotlight that acts as a desktop search program, which for me is the least interesting part of spotlight.
I personally mainly use it for smart folders and searching my email archive. My only wish is that spotlight worked at the file system level so i could use the smart folders from a shell since that is where i do most of my work.
E.g. nothing that hobby OS’es don’t have already…
Of course, now Windows users will finally have access to these features (with no 3rd party apps involved), whihch goes along with the other things Windows already has going for it. In other words, I can continue using the apps I love and depend on daily without having to miss many of the features we’ve previously been without.
Correct. But it’s not something to get all hyped about, that’s all
Oh give it a break already, and stop living in that utopian fantasy of yours.
The parent *did* mention access to the best desktop apps on the market, didn’t he? OS X has a good portion of those, but the rest more or less belong to Windows.
Well, GNU/Linux distroes have a better part of these compared with Mac OS X, and on x86 they easily run windows apps too
But no doubt that Windows has the largest share of the best desktop apps. No doubt.
But it doesn’t change the fact that Vista is overhyped. It’s nothing but what should have been more than a decade ago
(except that MS developers couldn’t do the trick back then).
If Vista is what should have been around a decade ago, then I have to wonder where the developers of every other OS were a decade ago.
Vista may be somewhat overhyped, but Microsoft is doing more with it than they have with any other version of Windows. I’m looking forward to many of the improvements to come.
As for GNU/Linux … yeah, I don’t think so. 😉 OS X has the support of the industry, and it has many a great application. WINE is still a sort-of solution.
Saying “improved security” about Microsofts products is like saying nothing. Microsofts have no idea on how to program secure software. Thet know, however, how to program visually useless software.
Saying “improved security” about Microsofts products is like saying nothing. Microsofts have no idea on how to program secure software. Thet know, however, how to program visually useless software.
I think you’re on to something here. Better call up Bill Gates together with all the other smartasses on Slashdot and tell them how to do it.
Nothing personal, but I find it kind of funny how everyone plus their dog knows better than Microsoft yet they live with their parents and write comments on news sites.
“Nothing personal, but I find it kind of funny how everyone plus their dog knows better than Microsoft yet they live with their parents and write comments on news sites.”
Ooh, the ironing is delicious!
“Nothing personal, but I find it kind of funny how everyone plus their dog knows better than Microsoft yet they live with their parents and write comments on news sites.”
Some of them are in their mid-30’s and have never left home…. Except for the semester it took them to find tech school entirely too demanding.
It’s only like WinXp with a new skin if you don’t have the hardware requirements to support the new UI.
Don’t forget it will also include a fully scalable GUI which is one of the best selling points in my opinion. Almost half of the people I know with LCD monitors run them below the native resolution because otherwise text is too hard for them to see. Since you can barely buy a new computer these days without a LCD this will be a killer feature to have crisp clear text/graphics at any size you are comfortable with at the monitor’s native resolution, especially as we get into higher density displays.
Almost half of the people I know with LCD monitors run them below the native resolution because otherwise text is too hard for them to see.
The “point” unit for specifying text sizes is a physical unit (1/72″). This means that your screen resolution shouldn’t affect the text size at all. In other words, a 10 pt font on a 800×600 resolution should be EXACTLY the same size as a 10 pt font on a 1900×1200 resolution screen. If it isn’t, then you don’t have your DPI set up correctly. Here’s how to fix it:
In Windows
1. Right click desktop, click properties, then settings tab.
2. Click advanced, then choose “custom” from the DPI dropdown menu.
3. Hold a ruler up to the screen, and drag the ruler in the dialog until they match.
4. Ok, Ok, Ok, Reboot.
In Linux
1. Set the DisplaySize line (or add it if you dont have one) in the xorg.conf file to the correct physical size of your display in millimeters (WxH)
2. Restart X
Done, now your fonts are configured correctly.
It is a good selling point, not because it’s needed (users really shouldn’t care), but because it’s an elegant solution to a problem that will exist more and more.
Microsoft will never have crisp fonts, they use cleartype. (I just really do find Cleartype to be fuzzy, it’s too much, at least the default settings are).
I also find the default setup blurry, but I’ve tweaked mine to look as badass as never. Try this: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/tuner/Step1.aspx
edit: Did I say I love ClearType?
Edited 2005-11-28 01:34
had opensource drivers (or drivers for open spec hardware) I would care….
If you want open source drivers for Vista, feel free to petition the hardware vendors to supply that, or write your own.
Well I care … I desparately need a new Windows-Laptop (don’t ask why … just accept that I do) and I aint plunking cash down for one with XP if Vista is around the corner, coz I’d then be plunking down more cash for the XP->Vista upgrade.
Coz of the delay getting a new Laptop, that means I can’t switch my home PC to Linux (again don’t ask … just accept) and THAT means that I can’t go get a Mac-Mini (although I’ll probably wait on that one until I know exactly how long it will be before that becomes obsolete !).
So yes … I care
There’s no reason to upgrade from XP to Vista when Vista is released.
You can install XP today and when XP is EOL’ed you can switch to Vista.
You don’t have to switch just because Microsoft ships a new version of Windows
Maybe he wants to? Maybe he’s looking forward to a number of the great improvements?
You don’t have to switch to the latest SuSE/Redhat/Gentoo/LFS/Ubuntu just because SuSE/Redhat/Gentoo/LFS/Ubuntu ship a new version of SuSE/Redhat/Gentoo/LFS/Ubuntu. 😉
Of course not. I hate updating unless it’s because it fixes some serious bugs, security holes or adds functionality I’ve just been begging for for years
There might be something in Vista worth to upgrade for, but as far as I can see the good stuff will be backported to XP, so why bother the upgrade?
Unless the theming part is what he wants.. but I don’t care about stuff like that.
Since you mentioned Gentoo… remind of killing portage one day… that dbus-package is really annoying
“There might be something in Vista worth to upgrade for, but as far as I can see the good stuff will be backported to XP, so why bother the upgrade?
”
The backporting offers “more to fear” for competing systems than Vista itself. One of the best moves Microsoft could make at this point is to shove IE7 straight down the throats of everyone running XP. Forcing change rather than offering it, might be a viable solution this time around.
Rule no. 1)
Don’t ever force.
Rule no. 2)
If something needs to be forced, apply Rule no. 1.
#EOF
“Rule no. 1)
Don’t ever force.
Rule no. 2)
If something needs to be forced, apply Rule no. 1.”
Highly likely to happen THIS time……..
I’d feel for you, but I’m waiting for money to fall into my lap so I can buy a new laptop; and that’s not coming before ’06
.
If I were you, I’d wait 4 weeks before buying a Vista laptop; early adopters are insane (or rich, or working for a magazine).
“early adopters are insane”
I think the USD $900 to USD $2000 bids on XBox 360’s on eBay when the things were finally for sale proved that point already.
If I were you I would buy a low end laptop right now. It was NEVER a good thing to wait for some Microsoft stuff to appear on the shelf. Plus most of it was relatively buggy at the beginnig.
If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.
“automatica hard drive optimizaiton”
What’s there to optimize?I guess you refer to defragmenting,well it would be something if MS would introduce a different file-system that doesn’t ask as a katalysator for HD fragmentation.
I really couldn’t care less,doesn’t fit my common sence to spend more on an obsolete and not even ahead off the class GUI with and updated browser.
Just tell me anyone why you think Vista is more secure,anyone!!!
“Just tell me anyone why you think Vista is more secure,anyone!!!”
Far more secure because it’s locked down a lot tighter than 2000/XP by means of the default installation settings.
Keep in mind MOST people who use computers have no clue what they are doing in the direction of security. They don’t spend time making configuration changes they don’t understand. Most run the system the way it was configured when they bought it.
Internet Explorer is more of the problem than the OS itself. Simply changing the browser security settings in Vista will make a HUGE difference in the user experience all by itself.
Drive optimization is like Linux’s read-ahead feature that is used by several Linux distros out there to improve boot times. Once again, Linux read-ahead has been out there for a long time. So Vista adds nothing here but a copycat. Move on, nothing new to see here.
Why not put linux on the mac mini?
“A new Windows with much improved security (esp IE7, more so than what XP will have)” You should thank the crew at mozilla and especially KDE for helping improve the security of ie7.
http://dot.kde.org/1132619164/
Because installing Linux on a Mac Mini is like putting a Pinto engine in your new Ferrari.
OS X is years ahead of Linux in terms of usability, applications, user friendliness, and all of those wonderful things that make users of OS X go “I love OS X”.
Because installing Linux on a Mac Mini is like putting a Pinto engine in your new Ferrari. Because installing Linux on a Mac Mini is like putting a Pinto engine in your new Ferrari.
Surely you meant installing Linux on a Mac Mini is like putting a Ferrari engine in your new Pinto, Poo.
BTW Poo why is your website hosted on Linux servers Poo?
Sorry about feeding the Troll
BTW Poo why is your website hosted on Linux servers Poo?
Is it because he is paying for managed hosting ?
If so, then it is up to the hosting company to decide what to run the servers on, not the customer.
Most people buy Macs for OS X. If you’re just looking for another box to run Linux on, PCs are much more affordable.
And no, I didn’t mean that. Why ruin a great thing like the entire Mac package by putting some clunky and disgusting like Linux on it?
As for hosting, I don’t really have a choice about the OS that my provider runs, do I? If you can find me a FreeBSD host that provides the same thing as 1and1’s Business package for the same price, I’ll gladly switch. 😀
And no, I didn’t mean that. Why ruin a great thing like the entire Mac package by putting some clunky and disgusting like Linux on it?
I don’t know about OS X as I haven’t used it (I am sure it is very good) but I do know about XP. It is the system I am forced to use at work. There, it is a usable but somewhat clunky, limited and inflexible desktop definitely inferior to my GNOME on GNU/Linux desktop at home. Vista may address some of the problems with XP but really I could not care. At work our systems are reasonably safe behind the company firewall but even then one of my systems picked up a virus that had manged to break through. I am constantly being asked to help solve the problems of colleagues at work who are stupid enough to run XP at home, without a hardware router/firewall, when their systems have become so infected they no longer work. Of course they like most Windows users are to stupid, scared, lazy or just too conformist to try anything else, so I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them.
But then Poo, may be I am being to harsh on them, I have probably been using Unix based systems since about the time you were born, way back when I was in grad school. It was therefore a natural move for me to change from Windows to a unix like system in GNU/Linux. Back in late eighties I read Stallman’s manifesto, downloaded using ftp on the internet as it was long before the web. At the time I thought it admirable but hopelessly idealistic. However given the massive strides Free Software has made in the intervening years, I consider myself to have been far too conservative in my first response. It is the future and slowly but surely it will replace proprietary software on a global scale. Code wants to be free, Vista will just be a minor footnote in the history of computing like the once widespread CP/M (Yes, I had a CP/M machine in the early eighties) but Free Software will be forever.
Edited 2005-11-28 02:14
“Why not put linux on the mac mini? “
Because Linux will run on less expensive machines, when people buy a Mac they’re paying more because they’re also getting the OS, and the OS is usually the reason they’re bying the Mac. If they didn’t want the OS they probably wouldn’t buy the hardware either.
Besides, it should be possible to run Linux on the Mac mini’s already, but I don’t know of anyone aside from YellowDog selling those things with Linux on them.
The comments here never fail to amaze me.
Has full 32-bit antialiased titlebars? Vista does it, XP does (with a 3rd party app but not in the toolbars), and OS X does it but not to the degree of Vista (and you run into limitations when you do try to do it with a theme) And I don’t just mean making it transparent I have seen OS’ fake that by snapshotting the wallpaper. I have yet to see a Window Manager on X do the real deal. Transparent menus in an don’t count either because that is easily faked I have seen transparent menus in 9x even. Where is the window manager that leverages compositing in xorg to it’s fullest?
Just so you know my main computer is a Mac and I have a PC running Linux (with E17) and I’m always downloading and trying out livecds.
Wow! You sold me. Full 32-bit antialiased titlebars. Yipee!
I know you are being sarcastic which I really don’t appreciate. I’m not trying to sell anything to anyone I’m just asking a question which you have failed to answer. You might not care about that kind of thing but that doesn’t mean no one does otherwise why do you think they would put it in?
Someone looks at a screenshot of Vista and says “fill in the blank” already has all those features but I beg to differ. Either it has all the features or it doesn’t it doesn’t matter how important the features are to you personally.
I like OS X because for one thing in a high percentage of places you can have antialiasing if not transparency which isn’t nessasary in most places but I don’t begrudge anyone the choice. You can enjoy your jaggy OS and I will enjoy my smooth OS it’s much more pleasent for my eyes. =p
It’s also not the most imporant thing to me (and it wouldn’t be smart to assume so). But it is icing on the cake which I enjoy and better UIs are a part of progress anyway.
Edited 2005-11-27 20:44
Vista shipping in Q406 means that
1. Stock holders care (Incidentally, this is a fantastic way of taking advantage of MSFT stock price)
2. Businesses care
3. Hardware manufacturers care
4. Software programmers care
Ya know, this geek-world that we live in is completely segregated by those who think that MS should release more often (IE upgrades) and those who think that they shouldn’t (you). The question is, why *don’t* you care?
I tell you, as a group, we’re really much too two-faced to make an impact.
Windows Vista is junk and I don’t think it matters when it will ship. Junk will always be junk and it will stink.
Windows Vista does not add any new. Desktop Search is already here with Google Desktop Search and Mac OS X Spotlight. Widgets are already here with Dashboard. 3D desktops are already here with Looking Glass. Nice looking, alpha-blended, transparency-enabled desktops are already here with KDE/GNOME/X11 or Mac OS X. Support for universal displays is already here with NEWS, CoreGraphics in Mac OS X and Cairo on Linux.
So what? Vista is the old marketing machinery at Microsoft selling smoke.
Microsfts main problem has always been softare compatibility. ISV’s and users want their software to run as is, on the next OS they buy.
and remember wehn alot of the design decsions where made at microsoft regarding the API’s frameworks etc.
times where very different.
now there stuck with all this legacy stuff which they cant get ride of.
Windows Vista has alot of the code rewritten, and things like low rights enviroments for apps sort of like a basic SELinux but at the app level.(called MAC)
IE7 has this framework and runs in 2 modes a read only and an admin mode.
so to say, windows vista brings nothing new to the table is stupid.
-Nex6
Bahh!
Do they drop VBS support?
No?
Ahh, so you were joking, right?
how can you comment on something when you no nothing of it?
the ‘read only” mode is called “restricted mode” and will not allow anything to excute. its a viewer only.
IE7 will have more defualt security and or security options then most/all other broswers. its not IE’s fualt if you have not idea how to use them or what they are.
-nex6
Who gives a flying f*ck about Vista anyway? There is absolutely nothing interesting in Vista to make people switch from XP. Windows and the MS revenue model is obsolte and obsenely expensive compared to the likes of Solaris and Linux. You can deck out the same x86 hardware with Solaris, get better performance out of it, have access to much better technology, and save a pile of money at the same time. Windows is absolutely uncompetitive with Solaris or Linux on either price or performance, it is just a matter of time before people start realizing that Windowz is just a steaming pile of expensive crap.
what?
what planet are you from?
Vista has a huge amount of new code in it. including the ability to run apps in resticted mode so they can not effect anything outside there own sandbox.
tons of other stuff under the hood. and is more .NET bsed so all the cool security stuff built into .NET can be used at the OS level.
all this FUD and Vista is POO is just that FUD. ALL
OS’s have there place in life.
its better to not limit yourself 2 just one OS, makes you more flexable and more employable
-Nex6
oooowoooo vista to ship by xmas 2006 – whoopee, all the script kiddies and virus makers on the vista beta list know now how long they have to crack it.
I can say one thing, you can consider yourself a bonified moron if you shell out any amount of money for Windowz. It is absolutely uncompetitive compared with the real server OS’s (i.e Solaris and Linux) on either features, price, performance or price/performance. Windows is a piss poor deal compared with Solaris nowadays. The only reason you would buy Windowz is if you’ve got hopeless point-and-click imbeciles for sys-admins, who are no less competent than a monkey. If you want to a real server OS and you don’t want look like a total moron, ditch Windows and pick Unix for OS, you’ll thank yourself later that you did.
did you fall of the turnip truck yesterday?
you should look at the bump on your head.
just becuase you eaither dont like windows or dont understand it, does not mean its not a “real” OS.
and just becase some admins windows does not make them any less skilled.
I admin both windows and Linux machines. when a company hires you what are you gona do? start preaching the gospal? thats the fastest way out the door.
they dont want a zelot, they want a professional, who well eval each product and give detailed reports on each one so the suites can make a good descions.
that includes recomendions for linux where it makes sense, not blanket replaceing stuff like exchange and thr AD domain with “hacks”
think buddy think…
-Nex6
Microsoft has had a tendancy to not back up their own decisions. I wouldn’t forecast that far into the future for something like Windows Vista. Sure, they said that they would release it in Q206, but to be honest, quarter 2 means quarter 2. It doesn’t mean June, August, October or December. Certainly it will be out by the Christmas season, but you shouldn’t put a specific date on it–yet. Remember that Murphy’s law is very well lurking about Microsoft: what can go wrong, will go wrong-as it did with XP. It didn’t go out when they “expected” it to a year before the expected release date. Commenting on something specific when a vague description hasn’t been given isn’t such a good idea.