“As the release of KDE 3.5 draws near [Ed.: article probably written before the release], work is already underway at the Appeal project to integrate 3.5’s major changes into the 4.0 series. Subprojects beneath Appeal’s umbrella target simplified usability and progressive adjustments to the graphical user interface: The Tenor and Plasma projects will add functionality, while Oxygen and Coolness will enhance visual freshness.”
Beagle just works is well integrated with nautilus
(nautilus-search ) and evolution instead of tenor/kat
wich is an alpha project…
A very good thing about KDE 3.5 is that windows now properly maximise, in “the Windows way” so to say, without any border, really filling the whole screen: not a major feature, but interesting (not many have talked about it) and showing more attention to detail.
KDE 4 will be great, if things continue improving this way.
It would also be good if KDE became, at the same time, more OS X- and GNOME-like: reciprocally taking the best features from each environment is a good thing, IMHO, and could maybe also lead to some more unification in the future (so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).
BTW, the name “Oxygen” reminds me of the musician Jean Michel Jarre’s great success “Oxygene”, of some decades ago: again, a very good sign… 🙂
“A very good thing about KDE 3.5 is that windows now properly maximise, in “the Windows way” so to say, without any border, really filling the whole screen: not a major feature, but interesting (not many have talked about it) and showing more attention to detail.”
Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows
(this is like i suppose it says in english version)
My wish:
i’d like to see a button in kcontrol that says “store whole configuration”, because many times i have messed the config of the desktop and it’s boring to start reconfiguring everything again (i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things)
i’d like to see a button in kcontrol that says “store whole configuration”, because many times i have messed the config of the desktop and it’s boring to start reconfiguring everything again (i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things)
This sounds a lot like some sort of migration utility. It would indeed be nice to have easy access to such a feature, so that we could not only back up the settings, but also distribute or migrate to other computers. It doesn’t sound like it should be that hard to implement, since the KDE settings are all in ~/.kde, but then again, I could be displaying my ignorance on this matter.
Or maybe it should be the job of a backup utility of some sort? (Configured via a KControl page with easy to select options like “Settings”, “Bookmarks”, “Documents”, “Mail”, “Select Folder”, etc.)
“Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows”
Ah, thanks: good to know. BTW, I tried this “full maximising” feature (which I find excellent) on some distributions: sadly, SUSE 10’s new window decoration (one of the most beautiful) becomes a little too “distorted” in this mode, mainly with poorly aligned window menu icon, chameleon icon and title bar text. Maybe they’ll change this behaviour with some patch, later on, who knows…
Try kiosktool, which is the administrative interface for the KDE’s kiosk framework. Basically it allows you to create and distribute configuration profiles (everything which can be accessed from kcontrol plus a few more things) and assign them based on user and group policies.
i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things
Maybe just backing up ~/.kde/share/config?
Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows
Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE. O____<
Because there’s people like me who really want that option. Bad enough that KDE can’t scroll more than 12 lines at a time by mouse wheel; If it also couldn’t make maximized windows borderless, it’d be dead to me.
If the defaults are not good enough for 90% of users, the defaults are flawed.
True enough, but I believe that not having the possibility of changing something is also a flaw since everybody is difference and got its own preferences.
Do you think 90% of the users of any program/WM/DM/OS are using the same preferences?
They would be using many of the same settings, perhaps 50% of the settings are never changed by those 90%.
But still, if one could prove that 90% of users hated the default settings, then perhaps they should change. As I’m sure everyone knows, its hard to poll every user.
“Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE. O____<”
just pretend that you never knew about it.
Please explain, how does that in anyway hinder your usage of KDE?
I can´t see the problem.
A user wants something he can change it, if a another user is happy the way it is, he don´t have to change it.
Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows
Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE.
Because the GP thinks that feature is great and necessary while I think it’s the most annoying POS ever developed. It makes working with Gimp or similar tools a PITA because instead of maximising and then making minor adjustments to a window you first have to move it in a corner and then drag it larger.
While we are on the subject of window maximization states, I’m worried that the big window managers (kwin, Metacity, etc) are all going in the wrong direction when if comes to window management. At the moment, they are great if you are runing a standard 4:3 monitor or dual heads, but these days more and more monitors are coming out with widescreen aspect ratios. As most information is displayed vertically, rather than horizontally, maximizing a window to a 16:9 ratio wont be useful and users will have to manually adjust windows so that many different windows aren’t overlapping each other. I don’t see any window managers other than OS X dealing with this and I’m worried no one in open source will until MS Windows comes up with something nice to copy.
You could just maximize vertically. By default middle mouse button on maximize button, but you can change that to left mouse button if you need it more often than full maximize.
Excellent, thanks! I wasn’t aware of this. One more point for you
I’m on a widescreen, and I still prefer maximizing most apps
This is probably because I don’t multitask much, and I like giving an app my full attention.
On a tangent, my preference unfortunately makes the Gimp a pain to use in Windows, because maximizing the document window blocks out the toolbox (damn thing is never where you need it…). I wish they’d give the toolbox(es) a sidebar mode or something, either on the desktop or in the document window.
“On a tangent, my preference unfortunately makes the Gimp a pain to use in Windows, because maximizing the document window blocks out the toolbox (damn thing is never where you need it…). I wish they’d give the toolbox(es) a sidebar mode or something, either on the desktop or in the document window.”
I don’t know if I understood you right, but at least in Linux you can make the GIMP toolbars to be always on top of other windows (Preferences – Window behavior, or something like that).
Yeah… no such luck in Windows T_T Linux’s WMs give you some more possibilities (ex. snap to edges makes unmaximized window moving/resizing more convenient).
Even Always on Top isn’t really good enough, since that makes them overlap part of the image. The ideal, IMHO, would be to make everything that’s always visible sidebars, and maximise the window. (A tab bar or something for the open documents could be nice.)
No point making suggestions. They don’t listen, they never have. It’s their way or the highway.
I’ve been hearing criticism against the millions of windows and the general layout of Gimp for years now. Did they ever even consider adding an option to make these people happy?
One possible solution for this problem could be a docking function for utility windows in the window manager. Utility windows already can’t be maximized, so instead of maximize they could have a dock button. Docking works similar to maximizing after all, only that it doesn’t cover the entire screen and those windows would have to act as contraints to other windows.
The most tricky part of the implementation would probably be to get the placing right and to allow the user to move and undock the docked windows properly.
You mean like the perfect docking in PSPX with auto hide like VS.NET? Even photoshop is horribly behind with it’s MDI. You have to try PSPX with the palletes docked on auto-hide and tabbed interface on. Now that’s a proper UI for working with.
http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/
ion, hands down the most inovative window manager. It solves the overlapping windows problem and makes many other window management tasks very easy. It is a pretty radical departure from KWin or Metacity, but it only took me about a week to get used to it. I use GNOME, and I was able to replace Metacity with ion3.
Ion is an interesting idea, but even on my 17″ screen I still prefer to have windows stacked and just ALT-TAB over them, especially when coding or working on website designs, you need all the room you can get.
However, I think KWin and Metacity should offer some method of arranging a few selected windows like Ion does.
>(so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).
In your wildest dreams. These trolls are jobless and have no life.
Appeal is a great project. I look forward to its maturity and success. In my opinion, it defines what a desktop experience should be and what desktop application development should be about. Fark the framework wars, languages wars, toolkit wars and trolls. Appeal and projects like Appeal is really what matters to end users.
>> (so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).
> In your wildest dreams. These trolls are jobless and have no life.
Trolls have jobs and lives. They just happen to see the humor in people getting all bent out of shape over Internet discussions.
Thanks to your obvious displeasure the trolls are a little bit less hungry. Of course feeding the trolls does nothing but attract more trolls.
End the flamewars? Yeah, I know it’s a difficult thing to happen. Anyway, I said that also because, while being mainly a KDE user, I like some of GNOME’s implementations of things (for example, the Applications, etc. menus on the left). There are some good ideas everywhere, so let’s hope they will be well integrated in all main future environments and that one project can learn from the other…
Google has already bought Opera!!
And I hope they will buy Trolltech as soon as possible to give QT a more liberal license.
Google has already bought Opera!!
Have they? Source?
And what’s it got to do with KDE?
And I hope they will buy Trolltech as soon as possible to give QT a more liberal license.
Not that old flamewar again please.
The link is that KDE is written with QT, as Opera is. And maybe Google will go a step further, as they won’t do the same error than MySQL did with innobase (if they are smarter, of course)
Here, in french:
http://www.generation-nt.com/actualites/10770/google-opera
My frensh is not very good, but I do know what “veut consolider” means
“Mesdames et messieurs, il faudra prendre cette information avec précaution et attendre une confirmation…”
I hope google buys milk and makes it more delicious and nutricious.
FANBOY!!!!!
KDE seems to be making excellent progress. I a a new KDE convert. I tried it a few years ago and it was butt ugly. Now the widgets look almost as good as GTK. This is just personal opinion, but I think KDE feels more integrated and less cobbled together than Gnome.
Appeal looks very impressive and definitly has huge potential. One thing that stuck out to me was the beginnings of Oxygen, this is from what I have seen, the most polished, beautiful, and professional icon/widget theme I have ever seen.
I can’t wait to see some of this work backported to the 3.5 series
Great work KDE devs.
I agree, it looks slick. The idea that different types of icons should look different is excellent. The problem is that they intend to do it mostly by use of colors. This is a bit too subtle.
It would have been better if they had worked more with shapes. E.g. like old MacOS where evereything executable was rombic. Colors are nice but people experience them differently even if they are not officially color blind.
Shapes also works better in black and white, using shapes instead of colors would also have made it easier to apply color themes the desktop. Something that would be quite simple when using SVG icons.
kde is really starting to kick some major ass now, can’t wait for kde4, really like how they are working with artists and are organising them selves.
Qt already has the most liberal license the free software foundation has to offer: the GPL. what could google do? only make it less free (Lesser GPL or LGPL, like Gnome/gtk); or garantuee no more it stays free: BSD-like. nah, i think it should stay this way: GPL. and for those that really insist on creating proprietary software, let them pay for a proprietary license…
Qt already has the most liberal license the free software foundation has to offer: the GPL.
I don’t think liberal would be the correct term to use. I think you need to check the definition of liberal. Generally, it means without limits (as well as other meanings). The GPL limits what kind of freedoms you have with the software (i.e. I am limited to only writing open software), but ensures that the software remains free. Confusing, but true.
what could google do? only make it less free (Lesser GPL or LGPL, like Gnome/gtk); or garantuee no more it stays free: BSD-like.
Again, check you definition of free (i.e. without restriction – again, along with other meanings). LGPL places fewer limitations. I can now link proprietary code with LGPL’d software. That’s great for business! And hey, if along the process of writing my proprietary code I find a bug in the LGPL software I can graciously send a patch. A win-win situation.
As far as BSD goes, it’s even more liberal. I can do anything I want with the software. I can choose to let it remain open, or can close it up. The point is, I have the freedom to choose.
The guys that write BSD software like Santa Claus, they give without demanding anything back. Sure, they’d like you to spread good will and cheer (i.e. promote BSD software or write BSD software) but they don’t force you to.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that GPL is bad. Like all licenses, it has it’s place. Licences are like tools, you use the right one for the job.
i think this is a matter of opinion. maybe at first, BSD licenses are more free. but one can take the code, and ‘close’ it, and use it to take others freedom to do with the code what they want. so in my opinion, it does NOT promote freedom – it allows restrictions, it allows someone to take someone elses freedom. it is NOT a real free license, in the sense of what te purpose is of free software: to garantuee the freedom of its users.
the same goes for the LGPL – it does NOT promote freedom, it not just allows for non-free software, it promotes it! so imho this is a bad license (and the FSF agrees – and it tells you NOT to use the LGPL for your software! check the site yourself…)
you might say i’m an extremist, a purist. well, that might be true. but in any case, this is the reason i prefer trolltech’s licensing: altough it also allows for non-free software, they force writers of proprietary software to pay and contribute to FREE software.
Is it just me or does KDE seem to be doing a lot more than GNOME? I personally use GNOME over KDE for varies reasons, but this stuff sounds cool.
KDE seems to be doing more bravado and hype. The Oxygen icons look super. But the Tenor repositories are looking a bit old and unenthusiastic.
Compared to the effort Novell has put into Beagle which is actually tangible right now.
QT4 is a decent and solid piece of technology, but KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.
I’m sure with 3.5 out the way, Appeal will pick up, but its got nothing on Gnome. Cairo is making very visible progress and 2.14 is looking efficient.
What’s KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?
KDE seems to be doing more bravado and hype.
That’s funny. KDE has never done bravado and hype, and people have often criticised them for not hyping stuff enough.
But the Tenor repositories are looking a bit old and unenthusiastic.
Tenor needs an underlying framework, and that is Kat, which is still seing a lot of heavy work. Until that becomes more solid there’s not going to be much Tenor progress.
Compared to the effort Novell has put into Beagle which is actually tangible right now.
Tenor is not the simple search application that Beagle is. Beagle also brings your machine to its knees. I wouldn’t really call it tangible.
QT4 is a decent and solid piece of technology
Which is exactly what you need.
but KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.
Since KDE 4 hasn’t been released yet, what did you expect?
I’m sure with 3.5 out the way, Appeal will pick up, but its got nothing on Gnome.
What’s Gnome doing that’s like Appeal, or like anything that’s in Appeal?
Cairo is making very visible progress and 2.14 is looking efficient.
Cairo is a long, long, long, long way from being able to give you the kinds of desktop effects that only exist currently in videos of developer’s desktops. Some things are available now, but they’re far from efficient. Firstly, you need nice programming tools and the right framework above the core library for it to be truly useful. Achieving the required quality is also a lot of work. Just ask Apple or Microsoft.
A problem that both KDE and Gnome have in producing a lot of these pie-in-the-sky desktop effects is the state of hardware acceleration on Linux. It’s simply not of a high enough quality yet, and any next generation desktop will have to use the hardware when it’s available but scale right back when needed. You can’t just start depending on this stuff.
What’s KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?
The stuff in that artice? Heaven knows, I’ve seen nothing from anyone else recently.
Edited 2005-12-14 18:16
What’s KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?
Well, they have written their own office suite from scratch. Kword 1.4.2 already supports odt, krita is beginning to become a viable gimp replacement, karbon a very nice vector drawing program, and I won’t mention the rest of Koffice. GNOME hasn’t produced anything like that – just integrated 3 apps in the so called gnome office, ant that’s all.
Epiphany/Galeon – a skin on Gecko, that’s what it is, and they are being developed for years now. KDE: wrote a html rendering engine from scratch, that now powers Safari and Nokia’s s60 browser.
They just released KDE 3.5 recently. Many kde3 parts are already ported to QT4, and there is a demo version of kexi running on Windows! The path to KDE’s future is very clear – the goals are clear, and the tools are superb: QT4 has smaller memory footprint, it is faster, and easier to program for – not that qt3 didn’t have an excellent reputation, but they still managed to top that. Compare that to GNOME’s vision, which is still at (or at least that how it seems) what shall we use for 3 stage (will Beagle, a mono app,an integral part of GNOME for instance?).
KDE 4 – they have the energy, the resources, the clarity of vision, the tools to do it, and significant work is already done on the path to KDE4. Not only that, but (as I mentioned) they still find time somehow to develop a full featured office suite and a html engine as well.
parent’s question was: “Is it just me or does KDE seem to be doing a lot more than GNOME?” Whether you use GNOME or KDE, fact is, there is a LOT more activity around KDE, and I don’t think any fanboy would dispute that (just look at the hard facts: compare the code output of both projects or the application stack)
Just FYI…
I’m used Gnome for years, but recently converted to KDE. Gnome never looked like a complete desktop; it always felt like bunch of apps glued loosely together; KDE on the other hand, is very integrated, very consistent; and well engineered. Gnome lacks many features existed in KDE for years; and I don’t think Gnome will ever catch up with KDE.
Cooler, fresher, more oxygen….. Goodness.
I was interested to hear about Tenor and the underlying framework (Kat) being integrated into KDE. I think that’s a great idea. It will get far more testing, interest and integration with existing KDE infrastructure as a result. It’s also important to point out that the contextual stuff of Tenor is far more important than just ‘searching for stuff’. Your searches should actually have real meaning – ‘What e-mail did I get that talked about this document I have here?’
You’re almost certainly not going to get that with Beagle. While Beagle is a useful search application, that’s all it is. It has no way of being able to discern the actual context of search objects and others around it. Additionally, given the fact that it is written with Mono I’d say that the chances of it being an actual part of Gnome are nil, but that’s a political, not a technical thing.
When I first started using Beagle, if it didn’t completely die under it’s own memory and resource usage, it was a really useful thing to have when I needed it. And, technically and functionally speaking, Beagle is not all that ground breaking. I’m really rather interested to see how much further along the road Tenor will be.
Additionally, given the fact that it is written with Mono I’d say that the chances of it being an actual part of Gnome are nil, but that’s a political, not a technical thing.
Don’t be so sure about that. It is possible to integrate Beagle into the desktop without depending on it, like Nautilus does with its new search widget (which was implemented by a Red Hat employee no less). It will likely not be part of the GNOME project anytime soon, but neither are many other technologies which are integrated into the desktop (like Gecko). It doesn’t really matter to the user.
“What’s KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?”
what i think kde has done of late is instead of concentrating fully on major changes is that they have done a lot of small tweaks, these may be small but make a whole lot of difference to the overall quality and usabiltiy of the desktop!
I know that it is off-topic. “veut consolider” means “wants to comfort” its position. Maybe more correct in English would be “want to assure” its position.
If that’s the only thing you didn’t understand, well done ! Please take care of noting that even the website consider this more as a rumor than anything else.
I believe you’re mixing consolider and consoler. It’s more like “strenghten their position”.
A loose translation of the header of that article is “Google wants to strenghten their position in the browser market” and they clearly state that it should be taken with a grain of salt until there is a confirmation.
While buying Opera would make sense, buying Trolltech wouldn’t. Google is providing web services, trying to be the undiscutable leader in that market. Trolltech isn’t a target. eBay bought Skype, yet there are no rumours about buying TT!
Right/middle click maximize modes are available on most any good window manager and have been for quite some time.
So you can maximize vertically and horizontally or just one of the two.
E16 and probably E17 support maximization to the borders of other windows (a needed function in most other window managers).
TMK Mac has always considered maximization something to ask the application about. Because Mac seems to maximize to the largest size for that window that makes since (like on a browser, the scroll bars aren’t needed). This is a nifty idea, but it’s against the flow of Unix/Windows window managers: Ignore what the app wants.
But yes, there are more maximization options than you probably have realized (unless you’re using something like metacity; and then well sorry; you can use good wm’s in Gnome, it’s a bit of work).
My recomendation: Quite maximizing
. I used to maximize everything but my IM windows. But then one day I asked myself: Why don’t Mac people seem to do this? And I tried not maximizing and quickly discovered why people buy those high res screens: More useful space.
I will occasionally use a middle or right click maximize; it can be quite handy on a PDF or my buddy list.
Novell has been working on Beagle for centuries… I’m actually getting tired of not seeing it installed in any distributions (has it made it into something major yet?!).
I wouldn’t call Beagle a fast moving project. And I don’t think it’s intended to be either. I think Beagle is actually just a way to show off the power of the framework they’re working on.
I don’t. The last thing Trolltech needs is an American company owning them… I think Trolltech takes a great deal of pride in being … (Swedish I think?)
Trolltech is from Norway
Trolltech is from Norway…
There’s something about Oxygen’s action icons (particularly the “stop” icon) that I don’t quite like… compared to the other Oxygen icons they look kinda sharp-cornered, with overly bright colors. Still, I think I like it better than the shiny-plastic
I don’t see any window managers other than OS X dealing with this
I’m only on a standard 4:3 monitor, but nearly never use regular maximize. Mostly I use maximize vertically(MMB on maxbutton), and I think that would work just as good on a 16:9 screen. Most window manager supports this.
Thanks for the tip, I didn’t know that KDE had this feature. What a great DE!
KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.
Heck, what’s wrong with you people? KDE4 is on a development state (currently there’s porting KDE to Qt4 ongoing) and there hasn’t been even release schedule set yet. It may be that KDE4 will be in the market in year or two, so what are you expecting to have but some mockups?
Oh, btw, how’s Gnome 3.0 going on? For me it seems to still exist as some plans for the future…