Submitted by PearPC, the PowerPC processor emulator capable of running Apple’s Mac OS X on x86, has released version 0.4.0 after more than a year’s wait. “This is the first release with G4 support by Daniel Foesch (you have to enable it in your config). Other features include support for native CD-ROMs (no need for images) and endianess safety (i.e. you can run PearPC on big-endian systems).” The full changelog is here, downloads are here.
If it gets fast enough to run OSX decently, if Apple refuses to let me run Intel OSX on my own hardware, I might just hafta run it with this
The sense of entitlement some people have is simply amazing.
No, they won’t let you run it on your own hardware, because they don’t want to let you run it on your own hardware. Apple is selling not just hardware, not just software, but the “Mac experience”. OS X x86 on white-box hardware is something that will simply not happen for a while.
No, Apple is selling the software. It’s available for $129 (Single User) from their store.
Being able to install it using a PowerPC emulator is something that, whether Apple likes it or not, is legal in most countries.
And when x86 versions become available for purchase early next year, some people will create patches so it can be used on a wider range of hardware (including non-Apple systems). Again, applying those patches on the software *you paid for* might be legal in some countries, even if that’s not the “Mac experience”. And people will do it.
Okay, and unless you’ve already got a Mac, that software is 99.9% useless to you — so once again, they’ve already sold you the Mac experience.
No one mentioned legality. I know I didn’t in my parent post. We were talking about Apple not opening up OS X x86 for white-box computer users — and the sense of entitlement of some in the community that say it’s unfair that Apple will be disallowing it.
“The sense of entitlement some people have is simply amazing.”
It might be that free will thing again. Sarcasm… Complete experience…ha…ha…ha…superior hardware my ***!
Do you think maybe you could come up with a more mature ID then Linux Is Poo? May I suggest Apple-Extortion.
Do you think maybe you could come up with a more mature ID then Linux Is Poo?
Do you think maybe you could come up with an ID at all besides Anonymous? Surely the citizens of Onalaska, WI are a bit more creative than that.
(I could be geographically off, but Onalaska, WI is probably close anyways)
I saw words on my screen. I read the words on my screen. I understood each individual word on my screen …
… And yet I completely failed to see the point of your post as a response to my statement.
Well, that’s not Apples decision.
In Denmark it’s completely legal to buy Apple software and run it on non-apple hardware.
You can modify the hardware, distribute detailed information on how to do so, patch the binaries and distribute these patches (as long as people have to apply the patches themselves – you are not allowed to distribute the patched result – only the patches).
Reengineering OS X is legal as well.
And oh… DeCSS is legal too.
I didn’t say it would be impossible (we have yet to see) … all I said is that Apple is not going to be allowing it officially, nor will they be supporting it.
Who the hell mentioned legality of it all?
You mentioned legality, since you also mentioned Apple not allowing. They have no legal right what so ever to allow or not allow modifications. It is simply not for them to decide.
However, Apple will not support cracked version, nor versions running in PearPC or any other PowerPC emulator. That’s for sure. It would be stupid if they did.
But there is nothing to allow, because that’s simply not something Apple have the right to decide.
I did not mention legality. I said that Apple would not be allowing it — meaning that they would be putting work into DISallowing it, and not supporting it to any extent.
And yes, it is for them to allow/disallow modifications — it’s their product, and there is a EULA that you have to “agree” to before you gain access to the product. I’m not sure what kind of legs EULAs have to stand on in court, but since you are only really buying a license to use the software, you have to abide by the license.
Well, the EULA is pretty much useless in Denmark, and doesn’t hold in court. Nor does Apple pretend it would. The EULA usually have paragraphs stating that this or that may not be applicable in certain countries. Denmark is one of them.
Anything which goes beyond “you are not allowed to distribute” is basically void.
However, in modifying the original I also lose all rights (if I’ve got any at all) to support and so on.
I cannot hold Apple responsible for cracked systems blowing up in my face. However, I can modify it as I please.
Don’t forget that DeCSS is perfectly legal in Denmark, as well as in most european coutries. We don’t suffer from the american hell.
Right … that would make sense. I’m arguing this from a North American point of view.
I really should be going to bed right now. It’s 1:15 AM here in Vancouver. 🙂
Wait a couple of hours, real men don’t turn in onto it’s too late
no offence but what dont people understand you have no legal entittlement to the software you LICENSE, you do not own the software and therefore Apple has every right to tell you what you can and can not do, you have agreed to a license, and in most contries a license is a legally binding contract, so no, you’re wrong Apple can stop you modifying their software.
It’s not a contract as such. And no, I’m not bound by it in Denmark.
According to copyright law in Denmark and court rulings, patching is considered fair use.
This is why DeCSS is legal. It’s considered breaking into your own apartment. Weird, but not illegal.
Whatever the situation is in USA it DOES NOT apply in Denmark and most other european countries.
In Denmark it is perfectly legal to buy a PC, buy a license for Mac OS X, download PearPC, install it, and run Mac OS X inside PearPC.
Whether Apple likes this or not does not matter at all.
The EULA violates danish law.
EOF
That was a lame attempt to capitalize comically on my southern IP address. Rescinded.
Edited 2005-12-21 17:55
“you have no legal entittlement to the software you LICENSE, you do not own the software and therefore Apple has every right to tell you what you can and can not do, you have agreed to a license, and in most contries a license is a legally binding contract, so no, you’re wrong Apple can stop you modifying their software.”
As usual, this is completely confused. Apple has indeed sold you a copy of the software, and you can indeed do what you want with it, subject to local law on copyright and cracking. Now, as to Eulas, in some countries, Eulas in themselves do constitute a valid contract.
That does not mean that any clause contained in a Eula is enforceable however.
Whether it is enforceable depends on whether it falls foul of consumer protection legislation and anti trust legislation. In the EC the informed view is that clauses which try to enforce post sales restrictions on use are just about always unenforceable on both counts. It may be that there are some exceptions to do with health and safety. But the kind of restriction that says, only on my hardware, while it is technically possible to use it with other hardware, or only with my gasoline, when all gasoline is the same, or only in my cd players, when all cdplayers will play it…. all that sort of thing is unenforceable.
Apple with OSX is in exactly the same situation as MS with Office. Just as MS will never be able to stop you running Office under Wine, so Apple will never be able to stop you running a bought copy of X on whatever you want. Not purely by post sales restrictions on use. Whether they can do it technically is a whole other question.
funny how i remember earing people say “MacOs on x86 your dreaming it will never happen” or “a powerpc emulator for x86 in your dream”
“Apple is selling not just hardware, not just software, but the “Mac experience”.
Very well put: its the essence of the problem very succinctly. Its a problem that the early Christians also had. There will always be people who want to be members of a religion, without having gone through the somewhat bizarre and unpleasant initiation rites that the early members went through. In this case, since we live in a post modern age, the rituals and fastings and flagellations just consist of the ultimate contemporary sacrifice, the spending of more money on an object than is strictly necessary. The renunciation is the abandonment of the search for a bargain.
Alas, as the early Christians found when debating circumcision, sometimes, in order to widen the appeal of the cult, you do have to relax some of the rules that were applied to the early joiners. Its hard for people to accept this. But in the end, they either do, or they become swamped by the rush, so it doesn’t matter.
So we may confidently look forward sometime in the early summer of next year to this debate being over. The OS will be licensed, and the tenor of the mac contributions to sites like this will change utterly. Looking forward to it.
well you know that is just as illegal as running a hacked x86 version of OS X, right?
It’s not illegal, at least where I live.
It is – The Mac OS X license agreement clearly states that you may install it only on Apple hardware.
Not necessarily. You can buy a PPC version of OS X retail, while the x86 version is probably pirated. The restrictions Apple’s EULA makes to run only on Apple hardware haven’t been tested in court, and so ignoring them may not be illegal. Don’t assume that a EULA is completely legally binding, as some clauses are usually illegal and inapplicable most countries, particularly this kind of clause. In some countries, you can’t even agree to give away this kind of right in a binding contract that you sign and have it apply, even if you want it to.
On the other hand, assuming that you have a legal copy of the x86 OS X, the process of hacking its technological protections to run on non-Apple hardware will run afoul of the DMCA, or your country’s local equivalent. You might think the DMCA unconstitutional, but until the courts say so one way or the other, this is a real law.
So, emulation is usually less illegal than removal of technological copy protections.
So, emulation is usually less illegal than removal of technological copy protections.
Neither is illegal in Denmark.
This is another reason I like to be in DK. We have stupid politicians, but at least they’re not that stupid as to make it illegal for me to access my own data.
Removal of technological copy protections are legal in Denmark. The media companies using these technologies can even be forced to help the user remove them, in the case it makes it difficult or impossible for the user to use this media.
If I buy a DVD and cannot play it in my PC? Get the company on the phone/mail – and they have to help you make it work – no matter the OS.
So, emulation is usually less illegal than removal of technological copy protections.
Neither is illegal in Denmark.
This is another reason I like to be in DK. We have stupid politicians, but at least they’re not that stupid as to make it illegal for me to access my own data.
Removal of technological copy protections are legal in Denmark. The media companies using these technologies can even be forced to help the user remove them, in the case it makes it difficult or impossible for the user to use this media.
If I buy a DVD and cannot play it in my PC? Get the company on the phone/mail – and they have to help you make it work – no matter the OS.
Denmark sounds like a wonderful place to live… Although we don´t have this nonsense here in Brazil either, but it doesn´t go that far as having someone held accountable for the DVD not playing on my Linux box. 🙂
As far as the law is concerned, If I buy a shiny new Apple machine, I could use as toilet paper if that´s what I want. If I buy an OSX86 PPC Edition shrink-wrapped box, I can install it on my PearPC emulator because it is mine. MINE! And if Steve Jobs doesn´t like it that way, he can shove it! 😛
Litigation in the USA is getting overwhelming proportions these days, I´m afraid.
DeadFish Man
This is another reason I like to be in DK. We have stupid politicians
Do you know a country without them ?
Hmmm… Nope, cannot think of any country without stupid politicians.
But despite them being stupid and all, they’re not stupid enough to force DMCA on us. It’s a sure way to lose voters, and they understand that language incredibly well.
“well you know that is just as illegal as running a hacked x86 version of OS X, right?”
Do you also yell at the kids in your school to stop running in the halls? Do you scold your classmates when they have an overdue library book?
I bet you’re loads of fun at a party.
Leave your comments at school and let the adults discuss here.
If there were any…:D
Hi Anonymous, thanks for the personal attack. Perhaps you’d like to sign on and actually put your comments behind a name though. Anyways, for future reference kiddo, I’m out of school. I can also drink you under the table, without a doubt. If you’d like to show your ignorance and or chastise me anymore please feel free to do so to my face. I invite you to come on down to Fort Worth Texas and see just how us locals here deal with smart asses like yourself.
Hi Anonymous, thanks for the personal attack. Perhaps you’d like to sign on and actually put your comments behind a name though. Anyways, for future reference kiddo, I’m out of school. I can also drink you under the table, without a doubt. If you’d like to show your ignorance and or chastise me anymore please feel free to do so to my face. I invite you to come on down to Fort Worth Texas and see just how us locals here deal with smart asses like yourself.
Remember: Arguing on the Internet is like…
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.phpi/463c5922/arguing.jpg
i am not the guy to who this post was directed to but if you wanted him to realize how imature is comment were you have just proven that you are as if not more immature then him or her
also let me point to you the following
“Anyways, for future reference kiddo, I’m out of school.” does not in anyway prove that you are mature and that you are able to apply those information in a non structure environment that is school by that i mean comment like
“I can also drink you under the table, without a doubt.” and “I invite you to come on down to Fort Worth Texas and see just how us locals here deal with smart asses like yourself.” are not proof of maturity and intelligence and certainly using those two methode to prove it is even less of a proof
anyway just wanted to point it out.
ah by the way if you intend on replying to this message with comment such as “man you are not even able to write correctly, you grammar proves that you havent even finished highschool” let me point to you that i for one have finished at least highschool but contrarly to my parent who became lawyer and anthropologist i decided to become a tradesman, secondly i am not normaly speaking english and or writing it, since i was raise in Quebec and speak/write normaly in french i also speak abit of spanish.
finally i go on the web as ataxy sorry dont post often here and i am not login currently but at least it puts a name on the comment
also there is alot of town like Forth Worth Texas in the world where “red neck”, “bully”, “jerk” or wathever there called in those town can kick the ass of those “smart”ass as this is the only way there able to proove there self
“well you know that is just as illegal as running a hacked x86 version of OS X, right?”
No, it is certainly not illegal, that is, against the law of the land. It may or may not be an enforceable contract violation. But this is quite different. It is not in the least illegal to break a contract. If sued, and if a court judgment is obtained against you, then not to comply with the judgment will be illegal and will probably make you liable for contempt.
The interesting thing about running software you have bought on the hardware of your choice – whether it be Windows, Office, or OSX, is whether the manufacturer has an enforceable contract with you, under which you have undertaken only to run it on the configuration he specifies. The configuration could be hardware, software or both. So for instance, MS could put a condition in the Eula that you would only run the bought copy of Office on Windows XP running on X86 (ie not under emulation on PPC, not under Wine on X86).
To run it on something else is not illegal. MS is going to have to go to court and get a judgment against you and have the contract enforced.
The smart money in the EC says that no-one has ever done this, and that there is a reason they have not even tried. They know it will not fly.
Seriously why? Couldn’t this effort be channeled to a common good? Like Linux or even to augment the underlying Open Source portion of OSX? Is it really worth all the time? Seriously why? Couldn’t this effort be channeled to a common good? Like enhancing Linux or to augment the underlying Open Source portion of OSX? Is it really worth all the time? Especially now that Apple is moving to Intel?
Because I can. Who are you to judge what is more worthwhile!
nevermind OS X, PearPC is a PowerPC emulator, and the PPC architecture is far from dying, even with apple going on the other side.
agreed, there is more powerpc stuff around than OS X.
I dont know if it would work, but has anyone tried a later version of amiga os on this ?
His time is his own and he can do with it what he wants and even million “socialists” like you can’t change that.
Why you gotta be like that eh? This developer does great work.
Anyway, I’ll answer your rhetorical question anyway. Many of us like to do something I like to call “hacking.” Not hacking in the sense of breaking into stuff, but hacking in the sense of “Hey lets see if we can get this to work in a way it may not have been intended to.” I associate PearPC with software like VMWare. It abstracts the hardware layer, and in this case does some emulation, so that you can run OSX on your PC. What’s great about it is that (well if I understand how it works correctly) that when you install OSX on a PearPC virtual machine, you can save a copy of it somewhere else, while you do massive amounts of hacking with whatever one you are working on. It makes it so that you can mess around with OSX without worrying about having to completely redo a machine.
That is just one advantage I can think of off the top of my head, and I am enormously uncreative. So go somewhere and be ashamed of yourself!
Damn you cut and paste.
The ubuntu 5.10 LiveCD for PPC doesn’t work with PearPC. The emulator dies with this error:
[IO/CUDA] <Warning> Event processing timed out. Event dropped.
Have you posted this in their forums?
Why would I? I don’t really care. I just took it for a quick spin, it failed, I deleted it. I guess I could report a bug/post IF their forums don’t require subscription.
EDIT: After some googling I found that PearPC doesn’t support the kernel 2.6 when using jitc (and sometimes it doesn’t support it at all, depending on the distro used). This problem is there since version 0.2, still not fixed.
Edited 2005-12-21 00:15
This problem is there since version 0.2, still not fixed.
Then why don’t you go ahead and fix it yourself? This pisses me off to see “consumers” grunting at free projects whose devs don’t earn a buck. Gimme a break!
> I guess I could report a bug/post IF their forums don’t require subscription.
whoa, the same Eugenia who did everything to have readers subscribe to OSNews. now I’m confused.
I just retried btw, this time trying to install directly from my OSX DVD, and it doesn’t load despite their claims that “image files are not needed anymore”. PearPC’s BIOS can see the DVD, it can read that there are 5 partitions in it with their correct names, but it claims that none of them is bootable.
Nice going.
…you know that it is a 0.4 release, right? YMMV.
The directions are based on Panther not Tiger. So the new pear will work with the Panther CD’s out the box but you should be able to go here:
http://wiki.pearpc.net/index.php/InstallTigerWithoutPanther
To install Tiger out the box. (Not simple though)
It’s 0.4 beta software. And a very complex one at that. Stop complaining.
“I just retried btw, this time trying to install directly from my OSX DVD, and it doesn’t load despite their claims that “image files are not needed anymore”. PearPC’s BIOS can see the DVD, it can read that there are 5 partitions in it with their correct names, but it claims that none of them is bootable.”
Thats because they say CDROM… not DVD. It’s been long known that DVD’s can’t be installed from directly.
That’s a shame about not working from DVD, as that’s all I’ve got. Anyone got idea on how to make an ISO from a DVD then??
YDL 3.0 doesn’t install either. It goes further down the line than Ubuntu but dies when Anaconda is trying to find the mouse.
This is a great project although still in it’s infancy. Applications should be portable and work across multiple operating systems. I hope this project really takes off and becomes stable in the future.
Search for “osx intel” on Shareaza, and read this tutorial:
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guides
Seriously why? Couldn’t this effort be channeled to a common good?
This is *not* an “OS X” emulator, it is an POWERPC EMULATOR!
Trust me, this is must-to-have if you’re making custom apps & optimized stuff for IBM’s Power servers for example and want to develope both x86 and ppc code on the same machine 😉
I wonder if it would be possibly to blend to the two together… PearPC running a base PPC install of OS X and have PearPC modified to pass x86 instructions from x86 compiled programs off to the CPU without translation… individual parts of the OS could be replaced with full speed x86 equivalents while the core remains emulated. I know its a big legal nightmare, but it would be fun to try.
“I know its a big legal nightmare…”
So what? I’m not a programmer, but I’d love to see it. Do it, and the legality be damned. Software is meant to be free.
Free software is meant to be free, but not all software is meant to be free…
Out of curiosity, you do get paid at your job, don’t you..?
Are your services free? Mine aren’t…
This was a great effort while Mac OS X only existed for PopwerPC architecture, but with Apples move to the intel chips this project seems doomed…
Cheers,
Daniel
http://www.nexle.dk/daniel
Apple can’t decide whether something’s legal or not. All they can do is decide whether something complies with their license or not. If they believe someone violates their license they have to go to court.
You people are pathetic. Apparently, you WANT the “Apple Experience”, but you don’t want to pay for it. Well, you ain’t going to get it by installing OS X on your vanilla hardware.
There are other reasons to use a PPC emulator on a x86 PC than fpr running Mac OS X. I for one would like to see a PPC-on-PPC solution like VMware for running PPC Linux on Mac OS X. Sadly, out of the two I’ve found one is no longer developed (Mac-on-Mac) and the other has a long way to go before being able to handle Ubuntu/PPC not to mention it’s too slow for the time being(Q/QEMU).
VMware Player is a really neat solution on x86, it’d be great to have something similar on the PPC.
You are incorrect with your interpretation of Denmark law. If a manufacturer specifies certain requirements for their product to work and then you try to use it on something that does not meet those requirements, then they do not have to do anything because you have not met the requirements.
Now your argument with DVD’s may be valid because I have never seen a DVD that specified certain hardware requirements in order to play the video on the DVD, short of a DVD drive. But if you buy OS X X86, which will probably state that the requirements are an Apple Computer, and then try to run it in emulation and it doesn’t work, then Apple does not have to do a single thing to help you to get it to work.
the thing about EULA’s is that they aren’t really legal themselves. I mean, to an extent they are, but you can’t say things like “You can only install this software on your birthday.”
EULA’s are far from binding. But I mean, if Apple wanted to take someone to court on this thing, I’m fairly sure fair use would prevail. I mean, this is basically like the DVD-Jon case, except there are no protection mechanisms being bypassed. Its just simply a PPC emulator that happens to run OSX.
(Even though apparently Eugenia doesn’t care.)
THAT is a void clause in a lot of jurisdictions. Including Brasil.
Just the other day, I used PearPC to fix the OS X install on my Powerbook after HFS+ decided to let some important files disappear. Since I’ve got only one Mac, I installed OS X in PearPC/Linux on one computer, loop-mounted the resulting image and copied the files (/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/Apple80211.framework/*) to the Powerbook after booting into single user mode (and figuring out how to get networking up from there). Without the files, OS X would just hang on “Starting login window”.
So basically, PearPC saved me from reinstallation.
Apple’s repressive EULA is just another reminder that Cupertino is the lawsuit capital of the world.
Repressive EULA? What, do they rape your dog, flog your wife, and sentence you to life imprisonment without reason?
No, it just violates my constitution given rights.
Care to be more specific? And remember, we’re not all living in the US.
“see just how us locals here deal with smart asses like yourself.”
Would that similiar to how you dealt with the Mexicans at the Alamo or more like how the Cowboys dealt with the Redskins last Sunday?