Google and CodeWeavers are working together to bring Google’s popular Windows Picasa photo editing and sharing program to Linux. The program is now in a limited beta test. If this program is successful, other Google applications will be following it to the Linux desktop, sources say. The Linux Picasa implementation includes the full feature set of the Windows Picasa 2.x software. It is not, strictly speaking, a port of Picasa to Linux. Instead, Linux Picasa combines Windows Picasa code and Wine technology to run Windows Picasa on Linux. This, however, will be transparent to Linux users, when they download, install, and run the free program on their systems.
Wordperfect and so corel linux failed to achieve any great market penetration because they whent the same route.
I dont get what is the problem with just opensourcing the code , its not like they charge and make any money from it directly anyway , the solution would also be much more integrated and even the code used in other applications this would mean that they would direct the content to Google online services.
I dont get what is the problem with just opensourcing the code , its not like they charge and make any money from it directly anyway
Remember kids, opensourcing code is for life not just the holidays.
I also like how you completely ignore IP and patents wich are an unfortunate fact those of us living in reality need to deal with.
I guess when you grow up and actually get a job you will see that Open source is no longuer a choice , you either use it or your company fail , thats what Novell , SUN , and many others have learned , because guess what thats what GNU/Linux does. There is also the little fact that Google is based on Open Source code and GNU/Linux almost entirely for its core business ( search ).
“I also like how you completely ignore IP and patents wich are an unfortunate fact those of us living in reality need to deal with.”
http://picasa.google.com/ is a software company owned by Google they own the IP and patent on it , But I guess you know something that we dont so enlighten me on what IP and patent that they own and have paid to acquire would Google be infringing upon ?
O wise and knowledgeable grown up, who undoubtedly has a job, and a real one, we have seen how Microsoft, Adobe, Quark, Autodesk and an incredible number of others have failed…
And yes, we, ignorant jobless toddlers, never knew that when you own a software company, you necessarily own all the IP and patents of the software you develop. Yet, one wonders why so many IP and patent infringement lawsuits…
Microsoft does and love Open Source.
Adobe does Open Source.
Quark no idea.
Autodesk does Open Source.
I guess reality is missed on some of you.
“never knew that when you own a software company, you necessarily own all the IP and patents of the software you develop.”
If you dont you pay royalty in real life …
“Yet, one wonders why so many IP and patent infringement lawsuits…”
Because the IP and Patent system in the US is screwed up !
“I guess when you grow up and actually get a job you will see that Open source is no longuer a choice , you either use it or your company fail , thats what Novell , SUN , and many others have learned”
That is just BS. We are not quite there yet. There is absolutely no support for “open source is the only choice” statements. I fear for the future of OSS if this is the motto of the movement. Programmers are a finite resource, good ones even more so. Simply open sourcing everthing will not make everything better, there are not enough programmers willing to work for free in thier free time to make everything better. You can’t guarantee that releasing source will attract developers, you can’t guarantee that opening a project will cause any improvement in it’s quality, you can’t guarantee that the community won’t just fork the project and leave you in the dust with you specific business needs unfullfilled. There are not enough garantees yet for big businesses to go that route. The companies named have a vested interest in the success of the Linux desktop, of couse they want thier apps to be GPL compatable. We may get there someday, but we are not there yet.
Depending on your circumstances open sourcing may even mean death for a small company with many competitors. I happen to enjoy my FREEDOM to choose whether I want to share my hard work with the rest of the world. I support the open source community, but this sort of elitist crap will kill it. You should be promoting the benefits of open source, not spreading closed source FUD.
That is just BS. We are not quite there yet. There is absolutely no support for “open source is the only choice” statements
We won’t ever be there as long as people like you go on supporting the other option (staying screwed).
I remember people were saying the same things for a lot of Linux components in 1999. We’re far past expectations on all accounts (except drivers). And you are saying BS like I will show you.
I fear for the future of OSS if this is the motto of the movement. Programmers are a finite resource, good ones even more so
This is not the motto of OSS, OSS does not even have a motto, as they want to remove every political statement that you find in Free Software. Your programmer’s rant has nothing to do with the problem.
Simply open sourcing everthing will not make everything better, there are not enough programmers willing to work for free in thier free time to make everything better
What you say is pure BS. The fact is that lots of FOSS programmers are ready to port these apps to Linux as soon as the code is made FOSS compatible.
You can’t guarantee that releasing source will attract developers, you can’t guarantee that opening a project will cause any improvement in it’s quality, you can’t guarantee that the community won’t just fork the project and leave you in the dust with you specific business needs unfullfilled
No we can’t guarantee of course, and as long as you don’t do it, we sure can’t know.
And the quality of the program will improve as soon as it is ported, because it will then be native.
And I don’t see how it will leave Google in the dust, this is just stupid, as they want to spread the thing.
There are not enough garantees yet for big businesses to go that route. The companies named have a vested interest in the success of the Linux desktop, of couse they want thier apps to be GPL compatable. We may get there someday, but we are not there yet
That’s why some ask for the source, stupid. This is no problem for Google.
Depending on your circumstances open sourcing may even mean death for a small company with many competitors. I happen to enjoy my FREEDOM to choose whether I want to share my hard work with the rest of the world
Open sourcing Picasa and Google Earth won’t be the death of Google, you must be kidding.
You have the freedom to do whatever you want, we have the freedom to ask/beg for sth. I don’t understand where your problem is.
I support the open source community, but this sort of elitist crap will kill it. You should be promoting the benefits of open source, not spreading closed source FUD
Asking for a native app is “elitist” ? You are the elitist one who try to kill FOSS.
I thought the benefit of FOSS was clear : if Google don’t want to do the native app, the community will do it as long as they have the code. So people at least ask for the code (instead of the pirating so common with proprietary software). Do you understand now ? What is elitist about that ?
Those were very nice replys that apply very well to popular programs by big companies with enough captial to take a risk. Nothing you said supports the notion of “Open source is no longuer a choice , you either use it or your company fail” That in fact is elitist. They offer free beer, you turn it down because its not your fav brand.
The fact is that lots of FOSS programmers are ready to port these apps to Linux as soon as the code is made FOSS compatible.
That may be true of the mainstream/popular apps but is it true for the lesser known and specific apps. Where will this army of coders be when I GPL my prorientary, in-house developed program? I bet I would be overwhelmed by the volume of bug fixes and public contributions I get. What happens when someone undercuts me by offering to support that app for less than me because he has not invested any r&d time/money into it and does not have a vested interest in it’s success.
We won’t ever be there as long as people like you go on supporting the other option (staying screwed).
None of my clients feel that they are screwed by my work not being open source. They are more than happy to pay for my work and I am more than happy to add things they want to it. I think you are confusuing open standards with open software. No one is screwed because MS office is proprientary, they are screwed becuase the files it outputs are proprietary. Standards NEED to be open, prop outputs will be the death of companies not prop software. Whether Picasa is open or not, you are not locked in to using it, and therefore not screwed.
Open sourcing Picasa and Google Earth won’t be the death of Google, you must be kidding.
I repeat: Depending on your circumstances………
“That is just BS.”
No , thats 100% knowledge and education , unlike some people I know whats the difference between Open Source and Free software , and your discussing free software.
“We are not quite there yet.”
Open Source as been around and exploited since the creation of all IT.
“There is absolutely no support for “open source is the only choice” statements.”
Microsoft , Apple and Adobe are doing it …
“Programmers are a finite resource, good ones even more so. ”
That I have to agree with. But license and programming skills are two different things.
“Simply open sourcing everthing will not make everything better”
Actually in reality it does , because real Open Source you get thousnad of participant who are going to contribute.
“there are not enough programmers willing to work for free in thier free time to make everything better.”
Actually it does , GNU/Linux as a ratio of 10-90 for the free developper who are not paid , but then again OPen Source and Free software is not about doing everything for no cost at all.
“You can’t guarantee that releasing source will attract developers”
I have to agree , but like everything its a case by case , people in the community have been asking for Picasa to be ported for GNU/Linux.
“you can’t guarantee that the community won’t just fork the project and leave you in the dust with you specific business needs unfullfilled. ”
If your motive is gouging the community there is a 100% chance of that , if your communicative and open with the community it as a tendancy to stay loyal , look at Google.
“There are not enough garantees yet for big businesses to go that route. ”
All the big business are already doing it in one way or another.
“The companies named have a vested interest in the success of the Linux desktop”
Google ? yes ok , if you forget that none of there software run on GNU/Linux.
“want thier apps to be GPL compatable.”
Thats what I mean when I said you dont know the difference between OSS and Free Software , thats Free Software and as nothing to do with Open Source exept as one of its quality.
“Depending on your circumstances open sourcing may even mean death for a small company with many competitors.”
I have to agree , Open Source as many traitor license that can be used to take and not give back anything , but I dont see Google disapear over Picasa.
“I happen to enjoy my FREEDOM to choose whether I want to share my hard work with the rest of the world.”
Thats not freedom thats choice.
“I support the open source community”
No , you dont even know who and what it is.
“but this sort of elitist crap will kill it.”
No its f–king thief liar and traitor such as yourself.
“You should be promoting the benefits of open source”
No , Open Source alone is crap , because thief , liar and traitor such as yourself can choose to CLOSE it to all others.
“not spreading closed source FUD.”
Since you wrote about it I am inclined to think that you do. I whas more in line with dont know what the hell he is talking about.
“Open Source as been around and exploited since the creation of all IT.”
That has nothing to do with the discussion.
“Microsoft , Apple and Adobe are doing it …”
In an experimental capacity not related to any mojor revenue stream.
“Actually in reality it does , because real Open Source you get thousnad of participant who are going to contribute.”
A baseless and empty promise, every project on sourceforge does not have 1000s of contributors. Most are lucky to have two.
“If your motive is gouging the community there is a 100% chance of that , if your communicative and open with the community it as a tendancy to stay loyal , look at Google.”
Unsopported and unprovable. Would company that is unpopular with your movement (such as Microsoft) enjoy that same loyalty?
“All the big business are already doing it in one way or another.”
see earlier comment experimentation does not constitute commitment or active involvement
“Google ? yes ok , if you forget that none of there software run on GNU/Linux.”
I wasn’t refering to Google. I was replying to “Novell , SUN , and many other”
“Thats what I mean when I said you dont know the difference between OSS and Free Software , thats Free Software and as nothing to do with Open Source exept as one of its quality.”
You’ll have to excuse the error.
“I have to agree , Open Source as many traitor license that can be used to take and not give back anything , but I dont see Google disapear over Picasa.”
Thats why I said SMALL COMPANY. Not all closed software is made by mega corporations, not even most of it.
“Thats not freedom thats choice.”
Freedom is also the right to choose. That is what your original statement seeks to destroy.
“No , you dont even know who and what it is.”
And you have a warped view of it’s capacity.
“No its f–king thief liar and traitor such as yourself.”
Oh boy, here come the personal attacks and name calling. I almost forgot I was talking to a friendly member of the FOSS community. Thief? I have never stolen software or code in my life.
“No , Open Source alone is crap , because thief , liar and traitor such as yourself can choose to CLOSE it to all others.”
Typical. You have no inherant human right to share my work or property. I have no civic duty to share it with you. You are FREE to not use my software if you do not agree with my terms for its use and modification. I guess your community’s labeling as communists is accurate.
You began your orginal reply with a personal attack, you peppered this one with them, you have no provable basis for your claims. Open source is only one of many choices, and it has yet to be difinitively proven to be the best. FOSS is not the only answer.
“That has nothing to do with the discussion.”
In reality it does , it establish the fact that , you dont know what the hell your talking about at all.
“In an experimental capacity not related to any mojor revenue stream. ”
There entire company are based on closed Open Source , get the facts then comeback.
“A baseless and empty promise, every project on sourceforge does not have 1000s of contributors. Most are lucky to have two. ”
What promise ? if the project is worth it there are thousand of developper who show up to help , look up KDE and GNOME , you take it as if a two man project is a failure , the linux kernel whas a one man job until he opened it up.
“Unsopported and unprovable”
Google is not the only search engine , you dont know english very well , Unsupported means with no support and unprovable mean which can never have proof of it existance.
“Would company that is unpopular with your movement (such as Microsoft) enjoy that same loyalty?”
Look up Novell/SUSE.
“see earlier comment experimentation does not constitute commitment or active involvement ”
Dont worry I read your bulshit , and disagree tottally with it, its not an experiment its an everyday use , you only concentrate on what please you not what is actually at the base of those company.
“I wasn’t refering to Google.”
Who care what you refer to , your wrong on everything.
Take any compnay its based on Open Source.
“I was replying to “Novell , SUN , and many other” ”
Yes , I have observed you tactic , I know you like to cherry pick the comments and only pick what please you , Novell and SUn are based on Open Source look up where Solaris and Novell network came from.
“You’ll have to excuse the error.”
Actually , NO , just shut up , until you have learned in real life what the difference is , you base your entire information on full lies and half truth.
“Thats why I said SMALL COMPANY.”
So , your entire point is invalid , Open Sourcing and making the software free software make it sure that no one can close you out of it and take it all and run with it. Its an equalizer for software source code , everyone as access to the same code.
“Not all closed software is made by mega corporations, not even most of it.”
Thats why most of them close too and thatthe Free Software company thrive. The choice of license.
“Freedom is also the right to choose”
No , the right to choose does not come at the expanse of the liberty and rights of other in a free and honest society.
“That is what your original statement seeks to destroy.”
No , my original comment is why dont they learn from history , see the first comment on this article , thats me. Stupid and clueless people responded to it and a minority agree with them , but there just stupid coward who are afraid of the new reality.
“And you have a warped view of it’s capacity.”
No , I dont expect miracle and I am the first in line to say that funding and help is always needed to all worthwill projects. I , unlike you , know the subject 200% .
“here come the personal attacks and name calling.”
NicodemusPrime , I dont consider you a person , I doubt thats your real name , the name of your ancestor and that of which your parent gave you , why are you so ashame ? Its not name calling either , I only describe who you are and what your character is all about after reading you.
“I almost forgot I was talking to a friendly member of the FOSS community. ”
No , talk is done between to individual who exist.
“Thief? I have never stolen software or code in my life. ”
Yes , you just dont know it and are accomplice too by supporting convicted criminals. Stupidity is no excuses.
“Typical.”
Your stupid comment I have to agree , its always the same lies and irrealist comments. You cherry pick what you like and discard the rest.
“You have no inherant human right to share my work or property.”
Your not human , you have no work that is not based on Open Source you thief , you have zero work that is not based on human knowledge that whas given to you , you have no property that belong to you at all. Your not human.
“I have no civic duty to share it with you.”
You have no civic right at all , you also have nothing that I whant either.
“You are FREE to not use my software if you do not agree with my terms for its use and modification. ”
I am free as a free man to do everything I wich as long as I respect human laws and defend its rights and privilege , since you have been declared non human and are an identity that dont exist as a citizen of any contry of this planet.
“I guess your community’s labeling as communists is accurate.”
Just as you dont know about Open Source and Free software , you know nothing of communist , those who do all agree that it cant exist in human society its an utopy that is based on evryone having the smae need and whants , not all human does. BTW explain Red Hat , Novell/SUSE , Mandriva , etc if where all communist.
“You began your orginal reply with a personal attack”
Your not human , your not a person , nothing personnal inmy comment at all.
“you peppered this one with them,”
I used the right description of yourself where it whas appropriate.
“you have no provable basis for your claims.”
I have the entire GNU/Linux and IT industry as an example. Not what please me the entire thing.
“Open source is only one of many choices”
Its not a choice you either do it as a moral and right thing or your a thief , liar and traitor who try and take advantage of it , no middle ground here.
“and it has yet to be difinitively proven to be the best.”
Microsoft and Apple are Open Source. Without Open Source nothing would exist.
“FOSS is not the only answer.”
Free Software is the only answer , for those who are not thief , liar and traitor.
Oh boy, here come the personal attacks and name calling. I almost forgot I was talking to a friendly member of the FOSS community. (…) I guess your community’s labeling as communists is accurate.
I tend to consider myself to be a “member of the FOSS community”, so this hurts. There are loons like Moulinneuf in every community, that has nothing to do with FOSS per se, though we seem to be ‘blessed’ with a good share of them.
He probably actually means well and might have some valid points between all the half truths, name-calling and false statements.
Just don’t point at one guy at some forum and say, “Look, that’s a FOSS representative, they are all like that”. We’re not.
Did you happen to catch the other reply to this? Ouch, he was out for blood.
Look, I have a lot of respect for people who are willing to create something for the greater good and give it away. Ideally, we should all be able to run very healthy, wealthy businesses on that model. I did not intend to make an attack against the community; I was goaded into it by someone completely unreasonable. Of course, my opinions do not matter apparently because I:
– Steal all of my source code and software.
– Rob people of thief freedom by not sharing my sources with them.
– Am sub-human and a traitor to my race.
I see none of the altruism your community hailed for in the above statements. I see only hate, zealotry, and persecution. I believe what you are saying and with a cooler head I agree, but I was genuinely offended by the low blows above.
Edited 2006-02-16 14:45
I see none of the altruism your community hailed for in the above statements. I see only hate, zealotry, and persecution. I believe what you are saying and with a cooler head I agree, but I was genuinely offended by the low blows above.
So am I – not because I was under attack directly, but because undoubtedly there will be people walking away from this discussion with the impressions that “the FOSS community is like that”. I like to believe that’s not true in general, and that most active participants are actually intelligent and pleasant people
.
Moulineuf doesn’t have an average comment score of 0.32 for nothing, after all. And yes, that’s also awfully ad hominem, but I figured that’s allowed in this case
.
Thank you for the cool headed response. We don’t always have to agree on development method. Religion, politics, or music for that matter. But I at least hope that we can respect each other as human beings, and conduct ourselves a such.
http://picasa.google.com/ is a software company owned by Google they own the IP and patent on it , But I guess you know something that we dont so enlighten me on what IP and patent that they own and have paid to acquire would Google be infringing upon ?
In no particular order it supports :
Quicktime so there would be Apple patents/IP in there
Asf so there’s MS IP/patents in there
gif although luckily the patent on that is now expired
jpg which is patented by Forgent (don’t know if it has expired yet)
I guess you could release a crippled version of the source with all that cut out, plus maybe some extra internal algorithms which may be patented, but the question remains why go through the effort.
And I have a job which I like, thank you very much. The closest thing we come to a widespread use of open source is using Solaris 🙂
In no particular order it supports :
Quicktime so there would be Apple patents/IP in there
Asf so there’s MS IP/patents in there
gif although luckily the patent on that is now expired
jpg which is patented by Forgent (don’t know if it has expired yet)
For everything you cited there, we have libraries on Linux that supports them, so this is no problem really.
I guess you could release a crippled version of the source with all that cut out, plus maybe some extra internal algorithms which may be patented, but the question remains why go through the effort
The crippled part will be replaced pretty fast by calls to high level APIs available in the main toolkits Gnome and KDE. And the question you ask is just insulting. You go through the effort to have a user base that believes in your products. Right now, I think most Linux users gave up on Google apps.
There are no patents there as I imagine it uses the underlying Windows multimedia framework to display those movies, it’s not like they bundle a copy of the Quicktime codec into every copy.
Were they to write a Linux port (which is unlikely) they’d just use Linux’s equivalents of the underlying technology like Xine.
Forgent’s JPEG patent is quite murky, there are lots of companies that have released products with JPEG support that haven’t licensed it (e.g. Firefox). Patents aren’t the issue. The issue is most likely the lack of any decent sort of pay-off from open-sourcing it, most people with the necessary Win32 skills have full-time jobs, Win32 simply isn’t something that has an open-source eco-sphere.
They already paid royalty on those for windows if they are using the patented system/ip systems. Its not like GNU/Linux dont have those legally covered too.
“I guess you could release a crippled version of the source with all that cut out”
Why crippled ? why cut out , yes because then it would serve your point and be your reality , which only exist in your small mind …
“but the question remains why go through the effort.”
Survival , GNU/Linux is a force that no one control , if they dont offer it , GNU/Linux will make it , but whont necesarely direct the content to there pay for more option site or to there advertisement system.
“And I have a job which I like, thank you very much.”
Not for long 😉
http://picasa.google.com/ is a software company owned by Google they own the IP and patent on it , But I guess you know something that we dont so enlighten me on what IP and patent that they own and have paid to acquire would Google be infringing upon ?
Have you ever heard of code licenses? Does Microsoft own 100% of the code in Windows? That’s a long shot, and there are chances that Picasa contains some third party IP too.
I hate this “Give, give, give, give” attitude all the open source people have around here. Just because Google uses Linux to run their servers, they have to open source their desktop applications….yep, sure makes sense to me [/sarcasm]. Why would it be in Google’s interest to open source the code? How would it help their bottom line? Is there any point, other than to appease a fraction of a percent of their userbase?
It’s not just supposed to be about their bottom line, remember “Don’t be evil.” That’s not just rhetoric, it’s their company motto.
Anyway, I don’t think they need to open picasa, it’s not really a big deal anyway. But there’s no reason not to tell them what we really truly want!
The grand parent does need to take a chill pill though doesn’t he? Calm down Moulinneuf! It’s just a bulletin board full of strangers.
“Have you ever heard of code licenses? ”
Licensed code , yes.
“Does Microsoft own 100% of the code in Windows?”
Yes , because the licensed code is not IN windows its linked to it.
“That’s a long shot, and there are chances that Picasa contains some third party IP too.”
So , its not like they did not pay for it for windows side …
“I hate this “Give, give, give, give” attitude all the open source people have around here.”
I guess you hate what you dont understand at all , Open Source is not free software , If microsoft can do Open Source and dont have to give everything away , I think Google can too.
“Just because Google uses Linux to run their servers, they have to open source their desktop applications….”
Yes.
“yep, sure makes sense to me [/sarcasm].”
No , but you dont make sense at all , and have no sense at all. In your idea its better for long term that Google pay a fortune to support software it dont even sale or make money directly on instead of having all the community support it. Wok nice when you have money , but the situation can change overnight.
“Why would it be in Google’s interest to open source the code?”
Survival. You dont whant the GNU/Linux community to build a similar software e but instead of using your revenue stream system and pointing the content to your pay for more option site , it would point to something else.
“How would it help their bottom line?”
They dont have to pay for 100% of the software development , and 100% of the support for it and they dont even have to pay everyone to add function to it.
“Is there any point, other than to appease a fraction of a percent of their userbase?”
Yes.
Well, fortunately some of us don’t have to worry about such nonsense as patents
However, it is clearly a problem if releasing software in USA, or releasing software for the US market. And since this is the case for Google, they’ll have to pay attention.
He didn’t ignore IP – IP is an important issue in regard to secure open source software. Strong protection of IP equals strong protection of GPL’ed software to take an example. An almost-paradox.
Because open sourcing Picasa != instantenous Linux port.
You think if they laid their codebase out for all to bear it’d suddenly be easier to port to Linux?
The problem is Picassa was written from scratch as a Windows application. A “proper” port would in fact not be a port at all, it would be a complete rewrite, which would be an awful lot of money to spend on a product they give away from free.
And the reason not to go open-source in that Win32 programmers aren’t very plentiful and generally don’t work in open-source (because most Win32 people are in full-time employment – generally people don’t learn Win32 at college). In short, there would be no benefit from it.
I only wonder whether the licence will allow us to integrate those apps in opensource distrib such as slackware, debian…
Hi
I have used Picasa on Linux using normal Wine. then what is the point of doing this ?
They cant do it with google earth because Wine cant do it even now. they just want to get the credit of this but the fact is that Picasa works on Linux even now using Wine.
Get real. If they want to do something, they better do it with google earth not Picassa.
So did I!!!!
This is what I did. I went to the wine head quarters. I looked for wine for my distribution. I downloaded it , fiddled around with apt commands to install it.
Then I fiddled around with config files for a while,
after configuring wine and fiddling around with config files. I also had to figure out where I wanted to store my Windows programs, which drives, whether I wanted everyone on the system to access the program , yadda yadda yadda , etc
If I down or upgraded my wine to run another Windows app I would probably break my picasso installation and I would have to go thru the above again.
Now are you telling me that you would want to go thru ALL that EACH time you install a windows application.
Most people don’t install wine to run Windows applications. They install wine to run a PARTICULAR windows application and they configure wine just for that.
They are just making it easier for you. Great if you can grok wine , most people can’t and I would admit for the 7 years I have been using it on and off it can be sometimes be a pain to get working.
This is what I did. I went to the wine head quarters. I looked for wine for my distribution. I downloaded it , fiddled around with apt commands to install it.
Then I fiddled around with config files for a while,
after configuring wine and fiddling around with config files. I also had to figure out where I wanted to store my Windows programs, which drives, whether I wanted everyone on the system to access the program , yadda yadda yadda , etc
Poor thing … Let me help you.
I agree with you it’s not really easy to find, as I had a hard time making Wine work without this, and nobody was able to help me.
So I will tell you what I did, and I suggest you do the same :
Go to winehq, then to the link in the menu “Support->Applications Database”. Go to the bottom of the page, there are 3 links. Go to “Sidenet Wine configuration utility”.
Go to the bottom of the page, download the latest version of the tool. You can read what it does on the page and look at screenshots.
OK, open the tarball and read carefully the readme.en . Now, just install following the instructions that suits you best, AS A NON-ROOT USER like said in the readme. Basically, you just have to answer some questions, and click the installer widgets.
Now, if you followed the default, you have a C directory in your home, and you can uninstall, re install any 0.9+ version of Wine you want, and it will work. It works better in KDE actually, as you have the desktop icons. Depending on your installation of Gnome (correct or not) you will or will not have the icons though. I changed versions of Wine several time, and everything works perfectly.
You will perhaps have some problems reading some dialogs the first time you install, if you don’t already have some fonts the tool installs.
If I down or upgraded my wine to run another Windows app I would probably break my picasso installation and I would have to go thru the above again
No more pain like this with Sidenet.
Now are you telling me that you would want to go thru ALL that EACH time you install a windows application
I would not even want to go through this the first time.
Most people don’t install wine to run Windows applications. They install wine to run a PARTICULAR windows application and they configure wine just for that
Poor things …
The only things that would be needed per app, is what libs to use. there is a graphical tool for that in Wine. I find it shitty compared to the other widgets, but it’s actually the Windows widget it uses.
They are just making it easier for you. Great if you can grok wine , most people can’t and I would admit for the 7 years I have been using it on and off it can be sometimes be a pain to get working
See ? Some people have a harder time than others. I started investigating Wine in 2004, and found this Sidenet tool quickly. I can even install apps the Windows way, though Windows shortcuts on the desktop won’t always work dependin on the app and the installer used (even that is not consistent on Windows).
wow thats really witty how you changed the word picasa to have an ass in the middle to show how you dont like the program
They’re not making it compatible with the Wine run-time, they’re compiling it against the Wine libraries to create a single binary that will work on Linux computers without the Wine run-time. It means that users won’t have to worry about configuring Wine to use Picassa.
It’s the same as the way Cygwin compiles things against their translations libraries to get Unix applications running on Windows.
Fine by me, if they get it going via Wine then no problem, remember it’s not an emulator, it’s a compatibility layer, and it’s a fast one. We’ve all seen the benchmarks, didn’t we.
Google please bring Google Earth on Linux, currently trying to run it using Wine is a real PITA (it works here, but strangely enough I don’t see the Earth…).
GoogleEarth is another beast. In fact, it would be relatively easy to port GoogleEarth to Linux. GoogleEarth uses TrollTech’s Qt product…
This is the reason why I suspect that GoogleEarth will soon be released on the mac en linux platform, native!
Regards Harry
So: what this seems to boil down to is that Picassa will soon be able to work on Linux using a modifield version of Wine. But if that’s the deal, why would anyone want to use it? Not really a positive answer to “Google’s Windows Applications Coming to Linux?”. Just my 2 cents, but the big one would be a Linux version of Google Earth.
It’s all rather sad coming from a company that runs the largest Linux installation on the planet.
Google didn’t write Picassa, they bought it up. Trying to port someone else’s Windows-only code is a chore. Be grateful that they are making the effort to make the first steps towards linux support. They could just not bother a whole lot easier.
Enlighten me. Why not PORT it!?
I really don’t get it.
it should be fairly easy to do.
Probably because the people who created Picasa didn’t think outside the Windows box and thus coded strictly for Windows. If that’s really the case, then I guess they’ve used a bunch of Windows-only stuff instead of just using standard and cross-platform libraries. This would mean that porting it could take a significant amount of work, as opposed to using Qt/WxWidgets + other cross platform libraries and having it run with minimal amount of effort. This is just me guessing, though, so take what I’ve said with an unhealthy amount of salt…
erm… read the above comments, apparently Qt is used for as the gui toolkit. And porting applications is always THAT DIFFICULT. Personally I don’t think anyone with programming experience codes without thinking of portability and modularity.
Modularity coupled with good software design allows you to isolate platform specific features. The only issue they would have is the testing phase of the application. It’s behavior is not a 100% predictable. I know this is pure speculation but they could have partnered with CodeWeaver to cut out the testing phases of the product development and with the added bonus of continuing their good stances with Open Source. Communities.
just a thouth…. don’t flame to hard.
Because Linux Desktop market share is not significant.
Its 20% of the worldwide desktop Market.
Quoting Moulinneuf, “Its 20% of the worldwide desktop Market.”
Let’s make a few destinctions here:
(1) Actually we are not really a Market in the real sense of the word. A more accurate term would be a userbase.
Most definitions of the word market use the terms
buyers, customers, consmuers etc.
(2) We are not customers. We are users.
* More cynically we are strategic pawns that
companies may use in their strategies to expand the
boundaries of their current markets or to strengthen
their hold on current markets
It puts things into the right perspective when asking yourself why companies do what they do.
p.s flame me not ! I am not trolling. You can tear my argument apart but that’s the way they look at, rightly or wrongly so.
References:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&hs=3fJ&lr=&client=firefox-a&rl…
“1) Actually we are not really a Market in the real sense of the word. ”
Wrong , that’s where most of the problem is , the “market” reported is sales that they can account for , the GNU/Linux userbase is actually higher then 20%. The GNU/Linux marketshare is also really different depending in regions and in which country you are.
“buyers, customers, consmuers etc.”
People buy Mandriva , Red Hat , SUSE , Xandros , Linspire…
Wrong , that’s where most of the problem is , the “market” reported is sales that they can account for , the GNU/Linux userbase is actually higher then 20%. The GNU/Linux marketshare is also really different depending in regions and in which country you are.
You’re shitting me, right? I have travelled across several countries, numerous different cities, visited both sides of my family, etc. Never seen Linux on a single desktop. Seen a couple Macs.
I would really like to see some data to back up your hypothesis.
“You’re shitting me, right?”
No.
“I have travelled across several countries”
Ok …
numerous different cities
Ok …
“Never seen Linux on a single desktop.”
How would you identify it ? Are you an expert ? can you honestly say that you asked everyone what they used ? I could be sitting righ tnext to you in an airport and using GNU/Linux and you would never know.
“Seen a couple Macs.”
GNU/Linux run on PPC.
“I would really like to see some data to back up your hypothesis.”
IDG
Microsoft
etc …
Oh yes , ask for the Global report not the US market report.
Its 20% of the worldwide desktop Market.
Poor Moulinneuf, perpetually living in his GPL jihadist fantasy world.
Poor Moulinneuf, perpetually living in his GPL jihadist fantasy world.
LOL.
The written medium being what it is, I’m not sure whether you take yourself utterly seriously or whether there has to be some sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek humour in there somewhere.
Don’t take it as a “You’re wrong!” post but… I would REALLY like to see some data to back up this statement…. REALLY… I’m a linux user at 99.99% of my time (except for some MMORPG needs) and would LOVE to have this data to back up my own market share discussions.
Care to present a link?
Maybe 20% of the worldwide computer market. But then again google alone might be .1% of that
.
I’d have given an upper guess of 4%.
And so ? MacOS-X share is not that big too, around 3%. But there is a version of Google Earth for MacOS-X.
Any other idea ?
Excellent news indeed, I’m sure linux users will benefit from Google apps.. However, I’m also pretty sure they’d be all happier long-term with a native (eg. gtk) port..
I wonder why they don’t just get the code to compile using winelib? Then they could ship a single binary without the entire wine runtime.
You should notice that there is something called winelib which gives you the opportunity to write/compile native code. It’s just like if Wine would be a toolkit (alike QT or WxWidgets) and the program is abstracted of underlying layers and only use toolkit functions. This goes beyond drawn Widgets deep into primitives.
Yet, it is still a native program, perhaps with statically linked winelib, but could also be linked dynamically, like any other used toolkit libs.
This should result in a much more clean, stable and efficient run than issueing wine with an executable file!
Still it is not very userfriendly because the application will still behaviour “strangely” (read: different) in the world of Gnome, KDE, or others.
>> Still it is not very userfriendly because the
>> application will still behaviour “strangely”
>> (read: different) in the world of Gnome, KDE, or
>> others.
Just like it behaves differently than ‘normal’ Windows programs. But that doesn’t matter, because Picasa is more userfriendly than your average Linux (GNOME, KDE, etc) and Windows program (ie. even a dumb user can use it without much hassle).
There’s userfriendly, and there’s userfriendly. Many people think they know the difference.
And please stop this whining, kids. You are all complaining about things you’re getting for free. What’s wrong with you people? Spoiled?
You got me wrong, I was talking about the general usage of wine for native linux builds. I never ran this particular program.
In general, it is not a userfriendly idea to have a GUI completely apart the “common” GUI in the particular environment the user works with and should be used to.
It’s just a shame to see everybody here talking about “x86 only”, “I want it native” etc. without really knowing how this is done. A little read on wine’s Website would help a lot
Just like it behaves differently than ‘normal’ Windows programs. But that doesn’t matter, because Picasa is more userfriendly than your average Linux (GNOME, KDE, etc) and Windows program (ie. even a dumb user can use it without much hassle)
You mean, Digikam is a superior above average Linux program ?
Many programs are actually as cool as Digikam on Linux.
There’s userfriendly, and there’s userfriendly. Many people think they know the difference
And some just look at their computer illiterate family, and are amazed at how Linux is user-friendly.
And please stop this whining, kids. You are all complaining about things you’re getting for free. What’s wrong with you people? Spoiled?
You must be new in computing.
People like me have already been beaten by old proprietary apps that won’t work anymore some years after launch, which are no more supported, or that require all kind of old compatibility binaries to run.
This creates a mess nobody wants to live with.
Linux Picasa combines Windows Picasa code and Wine[…] This, however, will be transparent to Linux users
Except to non-x86 Linux users, I guess, then…
I am glad if they do.
Sure I would have preferred a native app, but let’s being real, it won’t happen soon. Meanwhile I play games using wine and I would not mind if Google make a tweaked version of Picasa which work well under wine. My last attempt was not very successful.
PS: I am more interested in Picasa than Google Earth ! I can DO something with Picasa. Earth is just a toy.
Imagine a day, in a not so far future, that Wine will be so good implemented that MS developers all around the world would not have the obligated “must port to Linux” becouse their code will run.
…Then, that day, the important developers would not port ther important code to Linux
.
For example, you can run with Wine the so good Photoshop and Macromedia Studio, Adobe would be thinking now to not to port their apps to Linux just becouse their SW runs in linux like a rom in an emulator!!
I do not want a Windows in my Linux, i do not want to emulte a program probably compiled for my architecture but for another OS.
I want Linux SW. Not Gameboy roms …or Java clases..
What about Mono (when 2.0 finaly comes), If Google and others just write apps using mono and stays away fro nativ win32 calls (Pinvoke etc) it wold IIRC just me a matter of having mono on the desired platform (win, bsd/linux OSX etc). Am I missing something here (appart fro mono 2.0 beeing dalayd foraver)?
WINE Is Not an Emulator!!!
WINE is a compatibility layer. Winelib can be considered a cross-platform toolkit, and programs compiled with it can be considered native as much as the gimp is native on Windows.
Let me explain the purpose of WINE in a way that I don’t recall having seen. WINE is to Linux as MS Office format filters are to OpenOffice.org. Is it best to work with native code as much as possible? Probably. Is it always possible to work with native code? No. A little effort for compatibility can be very helpful.
Do people depend upon OOo for mission-critical Word formatting? Some people actually do. Do people depend on WINE for mission-critical Windows-based programs on Linux? Once again, some people actually do including Disney (a decent sized company that you might have heard of). Does everyone want to depend on a compatibility layer for mission-critical applications? No. That is why WINE won’t be able to kill cross-platform [native] development.
One last point: If Photoshop (or any other program) runs perfectly on Linux using WINE to the point that you can’t tell any difference even in performance without running benchmarking programs to have the computer tell you what you can’t perceive on your own, what difference does it make if the program was written using Windows/WINE APIs or some other toolkit that you consider native for Linux? I can see the desire for a port of programs that don’t function properly using WINE, but as long as everything works the way it’s supposed to, WINE seems like a pretty good tool that’s worth using.
I guess I’m not a member of the Orthodox Linux faith like you.
WINE is a compatibility layer. Winelib can be considered a cross-platform toolkit, and programs compiled with it can be considered native as much as the gimp is native on Windows
I hear that a lot. Is Gimp really native on Windows ? I thought it ran only in Cygwin.
what difference does it make if the program was written using Windows/WINE APIs or some other toolkit that you consider native for Linux?
Because the Windows toolkit is extremely limited and looks like VERY dated on any Linux desktop (except if you use twm or fvwm). I18N support is bad enough in Windows that I want native Linux apps solely for that.
I can see the desire for a port of programs that don’t function properly using WINE, but as long as everything works the way it’s supposed to, WINE seems like a pretty good tool that’s worth using
Wine is a good tool, but it’s a temporary workaround for apps not available on Linux. Native apps are always better, even when they don’t implement every feature of the original.
Native apps are always better, even when they don’t implement every feature of the original.
Not necessarily from the vendors perspective.
Certain parts of your customers or target group might associate a certain feature with the product name.
If it isn’t available they hold that against the whole product or the vendors ability to serve the new platform.
This can hurt both the product’s name and the quality usually associated with it, see Nero for Linux for an example when this goes wrong
Native apps are always better, even when they don’t implement every feature of the original.
That sentence seems to best summarize your frame of mind. Unfortunately, other people care about continuity and uniformity. People choose software based on features. Giving up features is not generally an option.
Imagine this…
“Hey Mom, Microsoft ported Word over to Linux! Now you can be sure to have perfect Word formatting even in Linux without using WINE! … What? Print? No, it can’t print, but it’ll do everything else except maybe check your spelling. But, it’s native. So, it really is much better even though it’s just missing one or two little features.”
Features sell apps. Being native to an OS is also a feature, but the average user wouldn’t understand or probably care if you started telling him that some software he was using wasn’t native to his OS as long as it behaved the way he expected it to.
Windows users choose programs based on features.
Mac users do so on features and native feel, and sometimes look too.
Unix users choose them on a variety of agendas, usually robustness and correctness.
Free software users tend to choose them on their robustness, and correctness as well (along with being free). Cramming chunks of Wine code in to run one application is not a correct solution: It’s a hack.
This is why people cry about having 512MB of RAM on a Windows/Mac (especially Mac) system where Linux users wonder how they could need more without doing image editing. Because the applications tend to be written to make proper use of shared code… And most programs are written with an eye for correct features as opposed to checklist features.
I can’t speak for the quality of Picasa. But I’m gonna guess it’ll be about as memory efficient on Linux as acroread 7 is, which does part of its stuff with gtk.
Rewrites are a lot of work though. And I welcome google to do and support this. Some people will likely use it, and others will balk at it.
But no, features do not sell apps to everyone. The average user doesn’t use Linux, we here at Linux have a higher entry fee than most: We demand thought
.
I imagine things like printing will still be the most difficult to get to work too!
You make a very good point about people using different operating systems based on different agendas. I still hold to my assertion that software being native is a feature. So, are look (eye-candy), robustness, correctness (all in the eye of the beholder), elegance, security, stability, reliability, boot time, memory management, etc. These may not all be the kind of features that you think Windows users are interested in, but they are features. You also make an allusion to different kinds of features, “most programs are written with an eye for correct features as opposed to checklist features.”
I’m not trying to argue that having a native application isn’t a correct feature. It’s just that with programming certain trade-offs generally have to be made to maximize ROI. I would certainly applaud native ports of any useful applications to Linux, but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the desire to leverage a compatibility layer for more immediate benefits.
Gimp is native in Windows. The Gtk toolkit uses GDI with special theme engines to draw its widgets in windows: It’s every bit as native on Windows as QT or any other 3rd party windows toolkit can be.
It is not native to Mac because it currently only has two supported systems: Windows and X11. There is a Mac port in progress with a supposed 1.0 time of around this Spring/Summer.
Windows Forms look dated because they are. They really need to get with the parent/child program
. But they way they look has nothing to do with how dated they are, I can make Gtk look just like it.
I’m still waiting patiently for Google Earth on Linux… It’s driving me nuts!
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Install_GoogleEarth_with_wine
The howto should work with other distro’s as well.
They wrote Google earth using Qt, they should do the same with Picassa since the beginning, Google have the licenses and the resourses to do it, oh well.
I think it’s hilarious to always hear people talk about different companies having “the resources to do it.” I have never known of a limitless resource (except maybe love–cheesy Valentine’s Day remark). Companies are in the business of increasing resources even when they seem to be exhausting them. They’re concerned with a little thing called ROI.
If leveraging the work of WINE developers allows them to expend fewer resources to achieve the same result, why do people want to complain about that?
In hindsight, maybe Qt would have been a better tool for them to use. Maybe it would have allowed them to have an easier cross-platform strategy. That’s not what they chose though. So, I don’t blame them for having a strategy now that doesn’t include porting a mature application to Qt or gtk or gtk# or C# or JEE or anything else.
Uhh…Google bought the application from another company (or bought the company itself). I remember buying it for a girlfriend a few years back when it 1) wasn’t free and 2) wasn’t from Google. So, they weren’t there from “the beginning” to do it your way.
We’ve got GQView and F-spot… What’s so great about Picasa anywah?
A few months ago, I installed Linux at home. But my mother missed picassa. For her, it was the easiest way to send photos by mail with the rigth size. It is well integrated with thunderbird.
It is a shame that we reinstalled windows. A week later we found the first spyware. Picassa in Linux would have helped a lot.
This is BS. Digikam was there already, did everything Picasa does and more. Especially send photos by mail with the right size.
I would say it is a shame you did not know what was available on Linux, and did not check what was available in your distro, even though it’s so easy.
Ah well …
Is there a possibility to invest in Codeweavers ? That looks to me like a large potential market, the porting/packaging of windows only apps…
I am surprised they are not doing this using winelib. That’s the whole reason winelib exists. As others have said, by simply using straight up wine, they are doing what a lot of linux users have been doing already.
It’s still not a total waste though. With Google and Codeweavers cooperating on this, one can be sure the result will be tested and easy to use without having to mess about with wine configurations. Hopefully one can be sure all the functions of Picasa will have been tested and ensured to work. That is a little better than telling us to do it ourselves and hoping for the best at least.
I don’t use Picasa on Windows, I won’t either on Linux. There are much better image organizers out there.
I have never used Picasa but it looks pretty nice. Currently I am using F-Spot and although it is still beta it works well. It doesn’t seem to have as many features as Picasa but it is getting better all the time and I don’t think Picasa will have much of a chance against native programs like F-Spot unless it is ported over natively instead of using wine. Wine is a stopgap more than anything else and that gap is closing all the time. I don’t need Photoshop on wine because I have the GIMP. I don’t need MS Office because I have OpenOffice. Now we have F-Spot in place of Picasa and again wine is not needed. I’m sure that not everyone can use these replacements as they may have specific requirements that are not met by open source alternatives but for most normal desktop users the Linux desktop is a viable alternative.
There are many alternatives, but everyone has a preference. I know a lot of people that enjoy Picasa, including myself. There is a demand for Picasa, just look at Google’s Picasa help group. A lot of people have been wanting it, now they’re going to provide it even though it’s not native port, but it’s a start. I know many people personally who will be using. However, for those who find other programs better, well good for them use them instead.
I’m also glad to hear that Google is going to release a native port of Google Talk and Google Earth. I love these programs. Some people may not, and that’s fine. That’s the great thing about Linux, there are many alternatives.
A typical day of OSNews posting..
user 1 : linux sucks
user 2 : linux rules, MS sucks
user 1 : I hate you.. you.. you.. linux user you.
user 2 : haha. quick witted aren’t you? btw, I’m probably a pedantic bastard.
user 3 : BeOS had this years ago.
user 4 : pfft! amiga OS had this before any other OS!!!
user 2 : They all stole it from linux
user 1 : I love balmer
user 6 : opensource it you capitalist PIG!
Edited 2006-02-14 17:16
I went and looked at Picasa a few weeks ago after a friend told me he was beta testing an early version of this thing. Maybe a year ago it would have interested me, but now I’m struggling to see _anything_ at all it gives me over f-spot, which is frankly a fantastic application, best photo manager I’ve ever seen. Not quite sure why I’d want to run a port / emulated copy of a fairly clunkily-interfaced Windows app when I can run a ‘native’ app with a very nice interface and all the features I need…
I really like Google and have been a loyal fan for quite a while. They innovate like no other software company in its position has been willing to try. But this just frustrates me to no end. You cannot tell me that with their pool of talented developers, they can’t actually write software that is cross-platform. I can think of at least three ways to do it (java, mono/.net, python), and yet they have to resort to Wine??? Wine is for when you cannot get the original software creator on the phone!! Wine is a last resort to a problem of interest. Why in the world would Google do this?? I’m sorry, Google is getting slapped for this.
I don’t really understand all this whining. The way I see this is that Google plans to start publishing it’s apps for Linux as well, and thus we have some more apps at our disposal. That can’t be a bad thing, right? Sure, Picasa will still be just native win32 code and it’s just wrapped by winelib, it won’t fit too well in with either KDE or Gnome desktops and it _might_ have some stability issues, but hey, if you don’t like it, you’re not forced to use it either. I’m sure there will anyways be alot of happy users too. I don’t why Google decided to use winelib wrapper, but surely they have their reasons.
I personally don’t even know what Picasa is or does, and I probably won’t ever use it because of it still being a win32 app in the core (look’n’feel, you know), but I still consider it a good thing when a big company lays it’s eyes on Linux and atleast tries to port their apps.
-WereCatf
The way I see this is that Google plans to start publishing it’s apps for Linux as well, and thus we have some more apps at our disposal. That can’t be a bad thing, right?
Wrong !
It won’t work on anything but x86, perhaps 64 bits, but I’m not sure. It will be a bitch to install, it won’t be integrated, it won’t have tenth of the features that Linux DE provide. Nero was native and was still lacking (and is now already useless on latest kernels), this will be worse from the start.
The whining is because, as someone I forgot the name talked about, if you port to Linux, ultimately it’s worse to do such a half assed hack than to do nothing. To add to the injury, there are already better native programs for both KDE and Gnome.
I still consider it a good thing when a big company lays it’s eyes on Linux and atleast tries to port their apps
Problem is, this is not a port, this is a hack.
Yeah, I forgot to say that it probably won’t work on 64-bit distros, atleast not without quite a hassle. But why would it be a bitch to install? If it is done in any kind of a smart manner, all you need to do is uncompress the package and run Picasa. Oh, and why would it provide any features that a normal Linux DE provides? You do know that Picasa isn’t a DE, it’s just an app…? And since it’s in the core the same win32 app, it will have all the same features as it’s windows counterpart. I don’t know what Picasa actually does, but I’m sure there are better native alternatives already, but hey, if someone wants to use Picasa, why not? I still don’t see any reason why a “half-assed hack” is no better than nothing at all.
Just by the way, I’m running 2.6.15 and Nero works just fine. Never experienced a single hitch. And this on all 3 machines of mine.
-WereCatf
Various posters have claimed that Google might not be able to open-source Picasa because of Patents.
That is silly: the whole idea of Patents is that the invention is protected even if it is published. Google could publish patented code, and others would not be allowed to use it commercially (in the countries where the patent is valid).
Of course they’d have to choose the license under which the code is published carefully, avoiding anti-patent clauses.
Some might argue that a license without anti-patent clauses does not qualify as an “open source license”. That is true depending of your definition of “open source license”, but needn’t be in general.