Submitted by “UNIX and Windows data-center market share remain neck-and-neck, according to most analysts, but many in IT perceive UNIX and Linux innovation as slowing to a crawl. We interviewed representatives from Apple, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Novell, Red Hat, and Sun Microsystems who were eager to challenge that perception by highlighting areas in which their UNIX OSs are breaking new ground.”
> UNIX and Linux innovation as slowing to a crawl
Because they see innovations in the windows operating system!
What a joke…
With each new version of windows, Microsoft is just trying to catch the unix systems on the server performance and reliability.
Edited 2006-03-02 13:16
analysts ain’t shit 🙂
I work here with datamodels no analyst in its own lifetime will be able to understand.
they are only interested in their own benefit, not that of the customer.
“many in IT” percieve these totally diffuse remarks coming from “analysts” and “observers” and “many in IT” as dumbass.
Edited 2006-03-02 13:44
*Nix inovation is slow, but windows is inovative huh? So how is it that virtually all the inovative features that made it into Vista (and several that didn’t) have been in Unix for years?
The answer my friends is that *nix got the core stuff right a long long time ago and do not need revolutionary upgrades to security, stability, and administratibility that windows does. Unix was an engineered operating system, windows is an adhoc mess on top of bought/stolen code.
Am I the only one witnessing Windows, especially in the server world, become more and more *nix like. Adopting the security model, already adopted the networking model, adopting the idea of a robost command line. Of course I applaud this shift and see it as the natural progression of an operating system.
*Nix inovation is slow, but windows is inovative huh? So how is it that virtually all the inovative features that made it into Vista (and several that didn’t) have been in Unix for years?
Don’t be so aggrevatingly defensive. Not everyone sees the world in black and white. “Slow innovation in NIX” does not equal: “Fast innovation in Windows”.
The buzz currently in the IT world is that there is a new version of windows called ‘Vista’ comming out and that this ‘Vista’ will contain ‘innovative’ features such as pretty eye candy. I have seen several articles here and at other news sites that talk about new vista features. Couple this with an article which is introduced claiming that Unix is not innovating much, and the ‘black and white’ comparison is already presented. Not trying to get ‘aggrevatingly’ defensive.
Couple this with an article which is introduced claiming that Unix is not innovating much, and the ‘black and white’ comparison is already presented.
So let me get this straight– because website abc.com says Vista will contain innovations, coupled with the fact that site xyz.com says that IT people are saying that NIX lacks innovation… Those same IT people automatically find Windows VERY innovative, without actually mentioning it anywhere in the relevant article?
I’m sorry, but that is bad logic. No matter how you twist it.
Call me ignorant, but I wasn´t aware that many people in IT perceives innovation to be slowing down among the Unices.
Theres probably a lot of people in IT who does not know and don´t care a thing about what happens in Unix-land (just as there are probably many in Unix that is not up to speed with the developments around Windows).
But to conclude that many people sees innovation in Unix as slowing to a halt, seems a bit strange to me. Who are these people? On top of my head I don´t remember having read any discussions about this.
So either I have missed something completely, or this was just a strawman to make the article more interesting…
it is a bait poll for some guys who want to fill their “important innovations in UNIX everyone talks about” article (which will cost money and appears somewhere else).
🙂
I buy cake and coffea now for the weekend, anyone something?
>Call me ignorant, but I wasn´t aware that many people in
>IT perceives innovation to be slowing down among the
>Unices.
On the contrary, *NIX is progressing faster than it ever has. Sun made dramatic changes to their UNIX, Linux proceeds apace and has recently introduced many new features as standard (FUSE comes to mind), the BSDs are all refreshed and starting to pay attention to the desktop…
This is either a sponsored article or a really uninformed one. I’m really not sure which.
On the contrary, *NIX is progressing faster than it ever has. Sun made dramatic changes to their UNIX, Linux proceeds apace and has recently introduced many new features as standard (FUSE comes to mind), the BSDs are all refreshed and starting to pay attention to the desktop…
Especially Linux and Solaris seem to be in hyperdrive these days. There are many things that we have now on GNU/Linux, and that were not available for a wide public one or two years ago. FUSE, AppArmor (which eases up MAC a lot), XGL, ReiserFS 4 (I am not a ReiserFS fan, but it introduces interesting concepts), Systemtrap, Frysk, Xen, Beagle, and the list goes on.
Of course, we are all standing on the shoulders of giants. But a lot of new approaches are tried. And even if it weren’t, there is nothing wrong with implementing existing ideas properly
.
hmm, fine sandwich. let’s add some opinion to the internet.
windows can become as advanced as it wants to be, it is crippled by design. the business model of MS is similar to that of google: accumulate ppls ideas and sell them back their own tomatoes. all that innvoation of theirs is no invention of theirs but demand of the user. that most of this is resembling something we have seen in open systems first is result of that procedure: MS customers want from MS the same cool & fancy stuff the got to see on open system boxen. so MS will never be able to technically move beyond unix.
also, since MS won’t go away in a while, they are like an annoying neighbour with loud music on and lots of shouting: ignore them.
we will follow our own path of innovation that is clearly advanced, well structured into files and directories and has the customer demand in mind as built-in feature of design, not as hopeful side result of military strategy planning where maximum profit is primary goal, customer always comes second.
if you accept that, innovation perspective is endless. no limits, literally. actually so incredibly vast that many UNIX users get dizzy and dare not think in that direction. 🙂 I recommend doing so, especially to the address of sun MS when it comes to office and shit. _there_ things is a little stuck at the moment but thats only because the concept of one single “office program” is broken nonsense by design. the pattern is repetitive: everywhere where concepts are taken from MS world, development gets stuck.
so don’t look at them. forget them.
actually since noone can reply anything to that I reply to myself
heh tilde, I thought about what you said!
actually this sounds good in theory but what about this office? it’s business reality!
to save posts, I’ll answer this one here already: yes, I am too rigorous, I know. but on the other hand, I see all these children learning that “office” is the specifier of some software while it clearly is not. “office” is a name, and it is a name for something that is completely different from software.
many kids now get thaught about how to “code ‘office'” and stuff like that. they are told that they get a job later if they can do that. that’s complete nonsense. real “offices” will move away from what is called “office” very soon.
MS knows that. that’s why they desperately try to open new markets like home entertainment.
I dunno I am of the opinion that Unix doesn’t really need to innovate as much as other OS’es because it was perfected a long time ago. Linux and Windows are still trying to reach the stability and functionality of Unix. Businesses know that commercial Unix solutions work out of the box and require comparatively little maintenance and can relied upon for the most important tasks. Windows and Linux on the contrary have not reached that level yet. So ultimately the only roadmaps that any speculation of value can be applied to should is Windows and Linux.
Perfected? Egads.
Modern UNIX variants are generally well-engineered OSes and have some very impressive capabilities, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in UNIX both in the desktop space and in the server space.
A satisfied OS developer is a complacent one, and that often (usually?) results in a stagnant platform.
Modern UNIX variants are generally well-engineered OSes and have some very impressive capabilities, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in UNIX both in the desktop space and in the server space.
Perfected on the server side and in the sense that it hasn’t changed much in the past 15 years or more. Unix had a head start over evey other OS by almost a decade to become a desktop OS i doubt that we will ever see Unix on the desktop.
Funny, I’m seeing Unix on my desktop *right now*…
Hey, I used Solaris on my desktop at a previous position (yes, with CDE {ugh!}), and it worked fine. Many of the end users also used Solaris, some of them well over ten (10) years ago. So I question your prediction. 🙂
>Perfected on the server side and in the sense that >it hasn’t changed much in the past 15 years or more.
>Unix had a head start over evey other OS by almost a
>decade to become a desktop OS i doubt that we will
>ever see Unix on the desktop.
*nix has been on the desktop for 20 years or more. Not for the home market, granted, but there was a time when the word “Workstation” was synonymous with “UNIX Workstation” and to some of us, it still is.
I do think Linux stands an excellent chance of being a desktop contender for many people when it is pre-installed the way that Windows and Mac OSX is today. The major hurdle for people is installing the OS in such a way that all the hardware is operational, which is solved by pre-installing the same way that other operating systems are.
KDE on Linux (and Gnome to a lesser degree in my opinion) is already light years beyond the functionality offered to Windows and Macintosh users as far as the power-user experience goes. There are certainly usability gaps (again, mostly related to hardware configuration) as compared to the commercial environments, but they are fewer with every release and no more difficult to neophytes than the commercial variants.
I have only used Windows as a game loader for the last nine years, and I know there are many others like me that have used Workstations for years. Two months ago, I installed a Linux desktop on one employee system and used RDesktop to RDP to the one entrenched Windows application we have – total success, all the employees prefer the KDE experience (although they use Firefox for the extensions they like) over Windows and can use RDesktop to get to the entrenched app – which they used Citrix to get to beforehand.
… ok I’ve gone on long enough. Obviously I think that “we will ever see *nix (sic) on the desktop.”
Woden was considered to be the leader of the Wild Hunt.
Not talking about workstations. Workstations != desktops.
I do think Linux stands an excellent chance of being a desktop contender for many people when it is pre-installed the way that Windows and Mac OSX is today. The major hurdle for people is installing the OS in such a way that all the hardware is operational, which is solved by pre-installing the same way that other operating systems are.
Not so sure about that there is still alot of work to be done. OS X is Windows main dektop competitor not Linux.
I have only used Windows as a game loader for the last nine years, and I know there are many others like me that have used Workstations for years. Two months ago, I installed a Linux desktop on one employee system and used RDesktop to RDP to the one entrenched Windows application we have – total success, all the employees prefer the KDE experience (although they use Firefox for the extensions they like) over Windows and can use RDesktop to get to the entrenched app – which they used Citrix to get to beforehand.
I personally only “need” windows for games one Mactel get more popular with game developers i am going to jump ship to Mactel. Linux is not one of my desktop considerations yet.
How so?
Are you defining a “workstation” as commercial use and a “desktop” as a home/hobbyist use, or what?
Just curious about your definition of the terms… Thanks!
a workstation is a machine that is stationary at work, just that.
a “desktop” is an idea from the eighties that the computer screen should display something like a “desktop” to help people keep stuff organised.
Hmmm, my computers at work are stationary and used for work, yet still show “virtual desktops” that let me get work done. One runs FreeBSD, another Linux, and the last Windows XP. Are they all workstations? All desktops? Both? Neither?
At home, I have two Windows XP laptops, a Windows XP tower, and a Linux laptop. They all show a “virtual desktop” as well. Are these not desktops? Are these not workstations?
Your definition of “workstation” vs “desktop” is abysmal at best.
Well I think there is still innovation in the Unix community and Linux as well.
However, I would not dismiss Microsoft, that is a bad idea and a fatal mistake.
Sure Microsoft took 5 years to get Vista together and sure they didn’t understand security even up to XP.
However, they are more problematic now than they have been in the past.
After upgrading Vista to the 21st century most of the hard part is now over (minus winFS and their Vista Server) and they also re-organised the way they code and they have hired some very smart people that have really made a difference and the company isn’t the same as it used to be.
They have Google, Linux, and Mac in their sights and Linux and Mac is helping to make Windows better by making it more stable and secure.
Underestimating the company is a really bad thing to do.
Open source might be nice, but a ton of these people have jobs already and are doing this in their spare time.
Microsoft employees are now all over the world, they get paid as its their main job, they have to have standards for coding with the same compilers and software and have code reviews and security reviews and use the same tools as everyone else in the same company.
You don’t have this in open source land as much as you do for working at a full time company.
Microsoft wasn’t always like this, they did not design software with security in mind and now that is their big consern.
I am just warning you now, that Microsoft products are becoming more secure and better made. Yes, I am sure that more security updates are coming with Vista when it’s released, but one thing gives Microsoft a huge advantage.
When you have a public Operating system that hundreds millions of people around the world bang on it every year for the past 5-6 years, you can pretty much find the holes pretty quickly and then adopting a Unix Security type model and then fixing the security of your browser and making sure Security is the top goal in mind in the company at every level, it does make a difference.