Mepis LLC, a long-time Debian Linux distributor, is switching from Debian to Ubuntu as the basis for its SimplyMEPIS Linux distribution. It seems MEPIS founder Warren Woodford has decided that MEPIS will do better for its users by depending upon Ubuntu, rather than Debian, for its foundation.
MEPIS Founder Plots Transition to Ubuntu
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Eugenia Loli
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Debian is dead – long live Debian.
I think Debian should be based on Ubuntu too
I think Debian should be based on Ubuntu too
Than it’s Ubuntu.
I sincerly hope Debian may exist forever to assure at least one real free distro one can be rely upon when everything has been comercially assimilated.
I sincerly hope Debian may exist forever…
How many times have we seen this? The unique nature of Debian is that it is entirely made-up of volunteers. “Going away” will be greatly difficult, as there is no need to generate revenue. It is possible that Debian could loose relevence in the GNU/Linux market, but I doubt it given the number of distributions that base themselves upon it.
As somebody that has used Mepis, Debian, and Ubuntu, I wonder what advantage Warren will gain? The only thing I can think of is Ubuntu polish, proprietary codecs, and Warren’s installer. Anybody else think of what we can expect?
…MEPIS will take from Ubuntu all that it has been lacking, including the feature that made me switch from MEPIS to Kubuntu: its better locales support.
Edited 2006-03-22 18:50
I use debian pure and compile everything myself.
All these new breed of distros Ubuntu, Mepis, xandros, knoppix are 90% based on debian. Now they put some glorified GUI or installation scheme on top of debian and then claim to be a revolutionary distro alternative to..?
Debian is far beyond a distro.. it is a linux system(i dont know exact word) which is developed over the years. Similarly slackware or redhat have at least contributed to a new trend or system.Tell me what contribution these new distros(ubuntu, knoppix, mepis…) have made as far as developing architecture, filesystems, installers, etc etc of a ilnux system??
mepis is really great distro but changing base to Ubuntu(which is debian anyway) doesn’t make it any superior. in fact it shows incapabilities of Mepis founder Warren to take on the world on his own.
You cannot change your biological mother..ever?
I smell elitism….
Now they put some glorified GUI or installation scheme on top of debian
If it’s ‘just’ a glorified GUI that doesn’t really require any significant work, why doesn’t Debian implement it? It’s ‘just a GUI’ after all…
Tell me what contribution these new distros(ubuntu, knoppix, mepis…) have made as far as developing architecture, filesystems, installers, etc etc of a linux system??
As you can see, most people seem to value the contribution made by distros like Ubuntu more than stuff you listed above. Doesn’t that tell you something about why people are choosing Ubuntu both as a distro and a base system for further development?
mepis is really great distro but changing base to Ubuntu(which is debian anyway) doesn’t make it any superior. in fact it shows incapabilities of Mepis founder Warren to take on the world on his own.
What do you mean he is not capable to take the world on his own? What are you talking about? And if Ubuntu “is debian anyway,” why do you care what MEPIS uses as a base?
Seriously man, you need to stop being so uptight about your precious debian. “Be a man” and compile everything yourself, use only CLI applications and design your system to break X on purpose. No one cares how big of a debian pro you are and it certainly doesn’t add any value to your argument. Let people use what they find suits them most and while you keep on compiling…
P.S. I am not even an Ubuntu fan, on the contrary, I am not particularly fond of Ubuntu and some aspects of the Linux world in general.
Well, as far as the installation gui is concernced, the current Debian installer requires a minimum of resources to run, which makes it accessible on many systems. Compare that to Anaconda or the like. Anywas, Debian is slowly working on a gui installer for future releases.
Elitism when talking about GNU/Linux distros? Never!!!
I smell it too. and it stinks.
Not every distro should feel the need to re-invent the wheel as a basis for starting up. Some distros are very active in the developing community and that is great. But other distros seek to take the the huge mass (or mess) of gnu software out there and present it in a form more usuable by the common mass of computer users out there. There’s nothing wrong with that; on the contrary, it’s a goal that, judging from the popularity of distros like Mepis and Ubuntu, has been lacking in the linux world of late.
Quite why you have been modded up to five is baffling.
I also use pure Debian, and am typing this on it. Debian is an entire system, as you say, but it is not perfect and it does not aim to produce an up-to-the-minute distribution for desktop users. This is where Ubuntu, Mepis et al come in and have made such a valuable contribution to Linux generally. They are quick and simple to install, honed to be a lot more stable than Debian Sid and they contain very new software – all wrapped up in a way that is fairly easy for the new user. Ubuntu’s hardware detection (Dapper) is also outstanding, imho.
Debian is none of those things because it doesn’t aim to be. It has different goals which it meets very well. Personally I think that if someone perseveres they’ll find Debian more satisfying that the derivatives, but that is simply not an option for a lot of folks.
This is one contribution the Debian-based distros have made. A second one, as mentioned elsewhere, is the extensive patching done by Ubuntu which is intended to be shared around Debian generally. A third contribution is that Knoppix kicked off the whole live CD thing. Add those three together, and the contribution is massive. Just my 2 cents.
I think debian is a great system (more than a distro), but, as all distro around, needs a more consistant documentation for a developer to pick up and contribute, and not for only some kind of experts
Hard to tell the OS from the religion but that’s exactly why Debian will be around long after the fad of Ubuntu has faded from memory.
First off I have to admit my experience with Ubuntu is limited…having only tried the LIVE CDs on both my Pentium IV and iBook…and neither detected all my hardware…with that out of the way…
For me, it’s a sad day for Mepis and all its users…
The reason for Mepis making the switch is simple – The Etch and Sid pools have been in a constant state of flux, due to the Debian devs wanting to have a faster release than Sarge was. This made it very difficult for a Mepis, being based on the Etch pool, and being only one developer, to get a stable release out, and one that would not break when users updated from the Etch pool.
Ubuntu, by contrast, freezes the Sid repo every six months, does bug fixes, then puts out the release, and presents a stable release as well as a stable repo from which users can draw from.
From a development standpoint, and from an ultimate user satisfaction/stablity standpoint, it makes perfect sense for Mepis to be based on Ubuntu.
Both are nice distros. I used Mepis for a while, but bailed on it because of the aforementioned problems cause by downloading/updating from the in-flux Etch/Sid pools. I like Ubuntu, due to it’s being up to date and at the same time presenting a stable pool from which to install software from. But Ubuntu takes a bit of work to get it to the point that I’m satisfied (install java, flash, mp3, other software).
Thus, I look at a Mepis based on Ubuntu as a big win, and I’ll be sure to try it out. It will combine the up to date stability of Ubuntu with all the conveniences of Mepis (superior hardware detection, GUI config tools/installer, java, flash, mp3, etc).
It could be very very good.
Unfortunately, many at MepisLovers.com are talking about bailing on Mepis because of the Ubuntu move. That is just stupid, and clannish/religious. OK fine, some of those folks don’t like Ubuntu. But add Mepis goodies on top of a solid Ubuntu base, and those users might like it afterall.
As for how all this reflects on Debian – well, Debian is not dead. This only reinforces Debian, and brings more people into the Debian fold. Debian makes a solid distro on it’s own, but excels even more as a very solid base upon which to build a more desktop friendly distro, like Ubuntu, Mepis, Linspire, Xandros, etc.
I’m also glad because a Mepis based on Ubuntu is causing some more consolidation of distros. There are too many distros that are only fragmenting the market and duplicating effort.
I find it funny that people are talking about bailing on Mepis because of the switch. I am sure it comes from the fact that people predict a split in the Ubuntu/Debian compatibility (from what I have read, some users have experience minor problems, but nothing major to this point). I can understand the idealist reasons for this, hence my liking of Debian. However, Warren has lots of proprietary stuff (like the installer). When I used to post on the Mepislovers board, the general reaction was, “Oh, Warren said he would get around to putting it under the GPL, and I believe him”. How long has Mepis been out? I think it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. By the way, does any other distros use the Kanotix hardware detection scripts, they are great.
Edited 2006-03-22 19:31
From what I understand, Ubuntu cooperates great with Debian … Shuttleworth seems to really understand the importance of sending patches upstream … in fact, his company Canonical is developing a framework for all Debian-based distros to share patches much more easily, using Debian as the common bond … it’s like a source-code-only version of what the DCC wanted to achieve at a binary level (what ever happened to that anyway?).
If I had to pick a distro that will still be around in 20 years, I’d definitely pick Debian.
Edited 2006-03-22 19:19
But Ubuntu takes a bit of work to get it to the point that I’m satisfied (install java, flash, mp3, other software).
Check this out:
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/12/209257
Yes, I’m well aware of automatix, and it is qutie cool and easy.
It does, however, take quite a while for it download and install everything. Plus, if you do it in the U.S., it isn’t quite legal (with some of the proprietary codecs).
Mepis, by contrast, has all the stuff “out of the box”, and all perfectly legal as I believe Warren Woodford has signed license agreements (don’t know if he had to pay, though).
So, basically, Mepis adds extra convenience over both pure Debian and Ubuntu.
This is why http://www.linuxfromscratch.org will remain relevant. When you start getting dizzy from all the distros it’s nice to know you can just download the kernel, download the sources for any “oss” package, and build it all yourself. Of course that takes a lot of effort… but to me it’s always been effort worthwhile. Then again I switched to FreeBSD a few months ago anyway hahah
Debian is not a “system”. Its a kernel with a bunch of userland programs slapped on top and tossed on a CD.
NetBSD/OpenBSD/DragonflyBSD/FreeBSD… these are “systems”!
: Sorry. had to do it.
Between Ubuntu and Debian there’s a considerable difference in the officially supported packages. Debian, of course, supports ALL of its packages while Ubuntu doesn’t officially support the packages in “universe” or “multiverse” repositories (about 75% of all packages). Yes, there’s some MOTU https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU work to support the packages that are not supported by the full-time Ubuntu devs and, yes, some Debian devs support both Ubuntu and Debian versions of their packages. But, from a user’s point of view, this is the biggest difference between Ubuntu and Debian.
Debian testing (currently called “Etch”) now has a security team of its own http://secure-testing-master.debian.net/ but Ubuntu doesn’t officially support security fixes for the “universe” & “multiverse” packages. Debian stable has also its own security team http://www.debian.org/security/ and the security for Debian unstable is provided by the latest packages (that often include security fixes).
Personally, I’ve figured out that Ubuntu might be a better choice for users who only use few packages from the “universe” repository while Debian proper might be better if you use lots of programs that in Ubuntu fall into the “universe” category. The Ubuntu devs are paid full-time workers and that enables them to do a very good and fast work on the officially supported packages. Debian devs are all volunteers and they need to have some other job — this leaves them less time for their Debian work. Still, without these Debian volunteers Ubuntu would lose a large percentage of its available packages.
Also for MEPIS users, I see the use of “universe” packages as a deciding factor in considering if the move from Debian to Ubuntu is a beneficial one. Ubuntu can offer a superb support for the packages in its official repos but the support for the “universe” packages… well, this varies in Ubuntu and sometimes it’s not so great, really.
Ubuntu is a young distro and I see it improving with every release. For example, the Dapper Drake release will move the XFCE packages from “universe” to “main”. This is very good news to me because I prefer XCFE to GNOME and KDE but a very large chunk of packages I use in Ubuntu are still from “universe”. (Sheesh, Ubuntu doesn’t even support officially the GNU Midnight Commander!) And this is the main reason why Debian is still my favourite distro number 1, although I have a partition for Ubuntu too, so I can watch its progress.
To conclude, MEPIS’s switch from Debian to Ubuntu will improve the support for software that is in Ubuntu’s “main” category but, at the same time, those MEPIS users who use many packages that are in Ubuntu under “universe” will probably experience a considerable decrease in quality. No more security updates for the “universe” packages. 🙁
Using Debian proper, there’s also the option to run stable with backports (which is a good option for desktop users).
The backports repo http://backports.org/ upgrades Debian stable with X.org, Firefox 1.5, KDE 3.5 and several other updates that desktop users can appreciate.
So, MEPIS would have the option to use Debian stable, spiced up with backports.
Oh, one more thing that is kinda off-topic for this thread (because MEPIS includes proprietary stuff like codex) but still worth mentioning is that Ubuntu’s “Automatix” has been ported to Debian testing, too.
The interested users can point their web browsers here: http://debcentral.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?forum=8&post_id=8…